ANGELUS ARCANUM

Angel and Hell

POSTED BY: DEWRASTLER
UPDATED: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 04:24
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VIEWED: 2703
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Saturday, September 9, 2006 4:31 AM

DEWRASTLER


Just a quick question, since I never watched Buffy but enjoy Angel. I've heard talk of Buffy banishing Angel to hell, Angel escaping from hell, or being pardoned. Things along that line. So my question is, what exactly happened? What is the full backstory on Angel and hell?


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Saturday, September 9, 2006 4:57 AM

SPACEANJL


short version - Angel had a moment of true happiness (with Buffy - happy 18th) and lost his soul again. Cue Angelus. (and subtext about losing virginity equating with big evil, blah blah)

So Buffy had to send him to hell. It involved a big sword. However, Willow cast a spell to restore his soul just at the same moment. A little something Xander forgot to mention to Buffy.

End of season two.

But it is several years since I saw the episode...

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Saturday, September 9, 2006 5:07 AM

CYBERSNARK


The short version:

Select to view spoiler:


Angel (Good) turned into Angelus (Evil), and opened a portal that would've destroyed Earth, then got turned back into Angel, but the only way to close the portal was to sacrifice the one who opened it, so Buffy had to kill him. Then (about two months later), Angel popped back into existence. No direct ex cathedra explanation was ever given, but various characters have speculated and/or claimed responsibility.



The long version. . . we don't have time.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Saturday, September 9, 2006 6:11 AM

LADYSINGS


Quote:

short version - Angel had a moment of true happiness (with Buffy - happy 18th) and lost his soul again.


....just a little correction here, Buffy was actually 16 when she lost her virginity.

"Well ya know, we studied bludgeoning in the academy first year but by the time you graduate, you just forget everything. I'm a bad cop." ----Lawrence Dobson

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Saturday, September 9, 2006 7:01 AM

22CLAWS

Entirely pointy.


She was 17. It was her birthday.

22

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Saturday, September 9, 2006 2:16 PM

EMBERS


Quote:

Originally posted by Dewrastler:
I've heard talk of Buffy banishing Angel to hell, Angel escaping from hell, or being pardoned. Things along that line.



actually I was never clear on how Angel got out of hell...
I mean here is Buffy throwing away his ring,
and boom...he's back!
how exactly did that happen?

anyone know or just think they know??


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Saturday, September 9, 2006 10:21 PM

ELDUSTO


If I remember right, it was explained at some time, I'm just not sure if it was in BtVS or in Angel. I'm pretty sure it was in Angel's first or second season that he learns that the "Powers that Be" brought him back to be a Champion.


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Sunday, September 10, 2006 7:23 AM

22CLAWS

Entirely pointy.


The Champion and Powers that Be stuff is a part of the Angel the Series mythology; however, his resurrection, or rescue from hell, whatever, is never directly explained. As far as I know.

22

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Sunday, September 10, 2006 8:00 AM

13


I think the First brought back Angel...

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Sunday, September 10, 2006 8:04 AM

22CLAWS

Entirely pointy.


Amends. You might be right. Boy, that worked out well.

22

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Sunday, September 10, 2006 12:05 PM

LADYSINGS


Quote:

Originally posted by 13:
I think the First brought back Angel...



Actually, I think my take on it was that The First was trying to make Angel believe that he was brought back to do evil but then when he tried to commit suicide by waiting for the sun to rise....there was an unprecendented California snowstorm which prevented the sun's rays from reaching him. This snowstorm, I believe, was attributed to the intervention of The Powers That Be. (which was alluded to on Angel)

Does that make any sense?!?!? LOL

"Well ya know, we studied bludgeoning in the academy first year but by the time you graduate, you just forget everything. I'm a bad cop." ----Lawrence Dobson

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Sunday, September 10, 2006 12:27 PM

22CLAWS

Entirely pointy.


This suggests to me that the First did not in fact bring Angel back, but simply tried to seize an opportunity.
The Powers That Be (not named in BtVS) seem responsible, but the event of Angel's return is never directly explained.

22

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Sunday, September 10, 2006 4:53 PM

ELDUSTO


Quote:

Originally posted by 22Claws:
This suggests to me that the First did not in fact bring Angel back, but simply tried to seize an opportunity.
The Powers That Be (not named in BtVS) seem responsible, but the event of Angel's return is never directly explained.

22


I could have sworn it was explained in season 2 of Angel. Oh well, I still think the powers that be brought him back.


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Sunday, September 10, 2006 5:26 PM

DEWRASTLER


Thats just it, I watched season 2 last spring and don't remember anything about it. The only reason I brought it up now is because I heard mention of it from Spike in season 5. Maybe I missed it.

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Sunday, September 10, 2006 5:56 PM

EMBERS


it happened on Buffy's season 2...
have you watched all of Buffy yet?


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Sunday, September 10, 2006 10:14 PM

22CLAWS

Entirely pointy.


Angel's return is definitly not explained or included in BtVS.

22

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Sunday, September 10, 2006 11:27 PM

EMBERS


Quote:

Originally posted by 22Claws:
Angel's return is definitly not explained or included in BtVS.

22


we may have a lack of communication here...
I was under the impression that Dewrastler was saying that Angel's decent into hell (and return) was mentioned in Ats S5 and didn't understand the details,
and I was pointing out that the DECENT into Hell was caused by Buffy in BtVS S2 (not in Ats S2), which is what I thought was causing the confusion....

of course I may have just been adding to the confusion if in fact Dewrastler has seen all of Buffy.... hense my follow up question about whether on not all episodes of 'Buffy the Vampire Slayer' had been viewed.

But I agree w/you, 22, I never felt that Angel's return from Hell was adequately explained....
the implication that that TPTB just brought him back, just as Buffy was trying to put him behind her, is too much a plot devise for my liking....

The idea that the First brought him back in the hopes of manipulating him into killing everyone is interesting, and might fit w/the facts, but of course wasn't ever really given any follow-through.




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Monday, September 11, 2006 5:26 AM

RUGBUG


Quote:

Originally posted by SpaceAnJL:
short version - Angel had a moment of true happiness (with Buffy - happy 18th) and lost his soul again. Cue Angelus. (and subtext about losing virginity equating with big evil, blah blah)



Heh, I always thought the subtext was less about losing your virginity and more about sleeping with the guy who then turns bad.... Guy gets sex and then takes off, doesn't call, "goes bad".

***************
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

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Monday, September 11, 2006 5:26 AM

RUGBUG


excuse my double posty-ness

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Monday, September 11, 2006 5:34 AM

DEWRASTLER


Actually I've never really watched Buffy, just caught a few episodes. That's the cause of my lack of background knowledge and why I was asking. To everyone who has replied, thanks for the help you have been able to provide. I'm glad I'm not the only one confused.

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Monday, September 11, 2006 6:15 AM

EMBERS


Quote:

Originally posted by Dewrastler:
Actually I've never really watched Buffy, just caught a few episodes. That's the cause of my lack of background knowledge and why I was asking. To everyone who has replied, thanks for the help you have been able to provide. I'm glad I'm not the only one confused.


I would say that if you are interested in Angel & his backstory and motivations, you should watch some Buffy:
he was a regular character/love interest throughout the first three seasons so we slowly learn more and more about him....
then there are a few cross-over episodes (you must have noticed Buffy shows up a couple of times in Angel's first season? Well he comes to her show in corresponding episodes of her 4th season).

And then finally in Buffy's 7th season at the end (right around the end of Angel's 4th) he makes one last appearance there, just to reaffirm that inspite of other complications he has never forgotten Buffy.

Quote:

originally posted by Rugbug:
Heh, I always thought the subtext was less about losing your virginity and more about sleeping with the guy who then turns bad.... Guy gets sex and then takes off, doesn't call, "goes bad".


oh I agree with you, in fact in Joss' commentary he said he didn't want to 'punish' Buffy for losing her virginity....
of course personally I love the contrast of Angel going 'bad' with Parker in BtVS S4, when Buffy's second boyfriend ever ends up being even worse!

poor girl, she just can't win.


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Tuesday, September 12, 2006 4:24 AM

EVILDINOSAUR


Ok, in Btvs, The First Evil takes credit for bringing Angel back from hell. Then proceeds to try to make him Angellus again. When Angel decides to kill himself, we see The First saying "not my plan, but it'll work", or something to that effect. Then of course Buffy talks Angel out of killing himself and there's the freak blizzard that stops the sun from coming out and crispy frying him.

So it's never explicitly stated who brought Angel back. There's a couple theories I have, and evidence to support both.

Theory 1: The First brought Angel back. The First could have brought Angel back in an attempt to turn him evil, in order to have him assist the evil side in the apocalypse (remember the Shan Shu prophecy, Angel's a major player, but it doesn't specify which side he's on).

Theory 2: The Powers That Be brought Angel back. The PTB could have brought Angel back to keep him as a major player in the good side of the apocalypse. The First wouldn't have cared for that, so it tried to screw up the PTB's plan and make him evil, when it failed, it was ok with Angel being dead again.

So you can decide which theory you like better, or even come up with your own, but yea, that's what I came up with.

"Haha, mine is an evil laugh."

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