TALK STORY

Haken speaks

POSTED BY: SIGMANUNKI
UPDATED: Sunday, July 27, 2008 13:01
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 4770
PAGE 1 of 1

Sunday, July 20, 2008 9:20 PM

SIGMANUNKI


Don't know if anyone has posed this, but Haken speaks on fff.net issues:

http://www.shinyuniverse.net/blog.aspx?bid=72
"""
Due to an unknown problem with the SQL server, FFF.NET will be down for the time being.

I'm not quite sure what is going on at this point. I checked the database, cleared the transaction logs, did a defrag, and reindexed the tables. None of it seems to work. Queries are just slow for some strange reason.

Next thing I'll try is importing all the tables and stored procedures into a new database. Maybe that might fix things.
"""


Btw, this isn't the first time this has happened.

----
I am on The Original List (twice). We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

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Monday, July 21, 2008 2:14 AM

HAKEN

Likes to mess with stuffs.


That's somewhat old news. FFF.NET is working much better now. The database was moved to another server Friday night, which seems to have resolved some of the speed issues that the site was having.

With the large number of visitors we have daily, many of whom are viewing the site all together at the same time at any given moment, I think the site is actually doing pretty okay in terms of handling the load.

By design (because I didn't know any better 4+ years ago when I built FFF.NET) this site is inherently slow. So any sort of problems we have these days just compounds the performance issues.

Am I going to rewrite the code or rebuild the site to make things go faster? Probably not. Well, maybe if Firefly comes back as a series or there's another Serenity movie, then at that point, yeah, a definite yes. Till then, we'll just fly slow and steady.

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Monday, July 21, 2008 2:41 AM

PHYRELIGHT


I think the biggest problem is a traffic increase due to Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog, 'cause the same thing happened at drhorrible.com and whedonesque.com last week, and that's when a lot of the problems started here, right? It's not nearly as bad now, but I've now noticed that I usually can't access FFF during high-traffic times like in the evenings.

I hope this helps to send you off in a better direction.



Darksiders can keep their cookies. We have better writers.

Grrr. Argghh.

Experience the Horribleness!

http://www.drhorrible.com

... Oh, my gosh. I've turned into one of those people with a crazy signature! ACK!! O_o

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Monday, July 21, 2008 4:07 PM

SIGMANUNKI


Quote:

Originally posted by Haken:
That's somewhat old news. FFF.NET is working much better now. The database was moved to another server Friday night, which seems to have resolved some of the speed issues that the site was having.

With the large number of visitors we have daily, many of whom are viewing the site all together at the same time at any given moment, I think the site is actually doing pretty okay in terms of handling the load.




Point of fact, it took me over 20 minutes to the point where I was logged in and starting to reply to your post. I don't exactly call that "pretty okay in terms of handling the load." I would call it obscene.


Quote:

Originally posted by Haken:

By design (because I didn't know any better 4+ years ago when I built FFF.NET) this site is inherently slow. So any sort of problems we have these days just compounds the performance issues.

Am I going to rewrite the code or rebuild the site to make things go faster? Probably not. Well, maybe if Firefly comes back as a series or there's another Serenity movie, then at that point, yeah, a definite yes. Till then, we'll just fly slow and steady.




Slow, that's what you call it. I call it unusable. Honestly, if you don't have the time to maintain a site, than why not accept one of the many offers to hand off development (and/or help)? Then perhaps the users wouldn't have to deal with the nonsense of having the site go down or otherwise unavailable several times a year because of things which are entirely preventable.

----
I am on The Original List (twice). We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

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Monday, July 21, 2008 4:37 PM

SIGMANUNKI


Quote:

Originally posted by PhyreLight:
I think the biggest problem is a traffic increase due to Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog, 'cause the same thing happened at drhorrible.com and whedonesque.com last week, and that's when a lot of the problems started here, right? It's not nearly as bad now, but I've now noticed that I usually can't access FFF during high-traffic times like in the evenings.

I hope this helps to send you off in a better direction.




Correlation does not imply causation. And in case you didn't get Haken's response, there wasn't a direction he was heading. His response is to let things be. As in, we have to put up with the site being unstable and slow.

Also, the problems with those other sites were due to a change in servers and the resultant issues with DNS entries not instantly updated around the world. As in, it had nothing to do with load.

EDIT: It took over 2 hours to post (and update) both posts. Ya, this is acceptable.

----
I am on The Original List (twice). We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

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Monday, July 21, 2008 5:57 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


So is the problem resolved? haven't been able to do much last week, and yesterday again. Couldn't even see threads, only the main index and sometimes the forum index of threads.
I'm on from 2200-0500 Central Standard Time, so I don't think midnight to 4am is the heavy traffic time, is it?
Can somebody say that posts made now will not be deleted like all our posts last week?

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Monday, July 21, 2008 5:57 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


So is the problem resolved? haven't been able to do much last week, and yesterday again. Couldn't even see threads, only the main index and sometimes the forum index of threads.
I'm on from 2200-0500 Central Standard Time, so I don't think midnight to 4am is the heavy traffic time, is it?
Can somebody say that posts made now will not be deleted like all our posts last week?

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Thursday, July 24, 2008 2:23 AM

FILLYGIRL

Operative: "Its worse than you know..." Mal: "It usually is."


Haken,
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR ALL THE HARD WORK GETTING THIS BACK!!!!

...I work in IT, I know it was a bitch to fix, can I ask what you did or found out was the problem? Thanks again, YOU ROCK!

deb


Chaplain of the 76th Independant Battalion


...it's worse than you know...Operative
...it usually is.....Mal

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Thursday, July 24, 2008 8:03 AM

HAKEN

Likes to mess with stuffs.


Quote:

Originally posted by fillygirl:
...I work in IT, I know it was a bitch to fix, can I ask what you did or found out was the problem? Thanks again, YOU ROCK!



Normally FFF.NET runs on two separate servers. It seems like there was a problem with the link between the web server and the SQL server. It could be the network card or maybe something else. I'll have to test it to be sure.

To isolate the problem, I moved the website so that it's on the same server as the SQL server. The site seems to be doing much better now. Since having the website and SQL on the same server isn't a very good idea performance wise, I'll have to eventually move the site back when the server gets fixed.

That's where we're at right now.

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Thursday, July 24, 2008 10:31 AM

MAGHAFFAR


Cap'n Haken.... How this site operates -- under the rader and all -- is the perfect metaphor for the Browncoat Universe. We don't want no Gorramn Alliance-blazing fast site where nuthin' ever breaks down. Our compression coil busts, guess we drift until you can fix it. Stay Shiny & Keep Us Flyin'. Hen duo xie ni.

--MAGhaffar


==================================================================
Jonathan M.A.Ghaffar - Your Firefly/Serenity MP3 Ringtone Smuggler!
Free MP3 uploader (PC) at: www.tonethis.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------
MAGhaffar@wayoftheseekers.com
FF Stickers & "Scents of Serenity" Perfume Oils.
http://www.TombofJesus.com --> www.alislam.org

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Thursday, July 24, 2008 10:57 AM

MSB


HUGS Thanks Haken...much better

Ok now all of you get over to pay pal and anti up for all Haken's time and trouble ( you know he could charge us to be here and all, but thankfully he's sweet and generous and doesn't)

____________________________________________

Love doesn't make the world go 'round; love is what makes the ride worthwhile.

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Thursday, July 24, 2008 2:04 PM

FUTUREMRSFILLION


Slow, that's what you call it. I call it unusable. Honestly, if you don't have the time to maintain a site, than why not accept one of the many offers to hand off development (and/or help)? Then perhaps the users wouldn't have to deal with the nonsense of having the site go down or otherwise unavailable several times a year because of things which are entirely preventable.






Now Sig. Its his site, we are lucky he lets us sponge off him and we should all say thank you for his hard work.



I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original






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Thursday, July 24, 2008 4:00 PM

CHINDI


Hmmm.. I just wanted to add my thanks.. I still love this site the best.. and I agree.. a little show of some moentary affection might be real nice right about now..

so thank you Hakken.. and see Paypal for my other thanks!

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Thursday, July 24, 2008 4:20 PM

WYTCHCROFT


rubs eyes - blurry - slurry what now? hmm?
oh yeah - WE LOVE YOU HAKEN WE DO!:)

returns to limey land slumber...

vumps while dreaming (but that's another story).

This is my favourite site - i've said it before and I'll keep saying it as long it's needed.

Rock on Haken
Rock on our BDHs

and go us!:)




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Thursday, July 24, 2008 4:50 PM

SIGMANUNKI


Quote:

Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:



Now Sig. Its his site, we are lucky he lets us sponge off him and we should all say thank you for his hard work.




Really. Perhaps you should read his first response on this thread. As in, he doesn't actually do any work on this site and obviously hasn't for years. All he does is "fix" things when the site goes south.

Take that how you want, but those are the facts. Criticising him for facts is hardly out of line. In fact, it's part of the normal process of improving things. Again, I reference his first post on this thread in which he explicitly states that he won't, for whatever reason, improve things himself and worse yet, has refused all offers of help.

This isn't exactly respectful to the sites users. Especially since accepting help would have prevented or minimized all problems seen over the years.

I have no doubt that if this was an OSS software project, it would have been forked a long time ago. Because, that's what happens with "management" such as this. Unfortunately, domains can't be and there are probably copyright issues with some of the content here. So, sadly, it isn't going to happen even though this site desperately needs a rewrite.

----
I am on The Original List (twice). We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

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Thursday, July 24, 2008 5:40 PM

HAKEN

Likes to mess with stuffs.


Quote:

Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:
Honestly, if you don't have the time to maintain a site, than why not accept one of the many offers to hand off development (and/or help)? Then perhaps the users wouldn't have to deal with the nonsense of having the site go down or otherwise unavailable several times a year because of things which are entirely preventable.



FFF.NET is written in MS ASP (not ASP.NET), which hasn't been used for website development for the last several years. I hated it immensely and I'm not sure if I want to put people through that hell either.

Some forget that this site was just a fun little fansite project I did on my Windows workstation because ASP and IIS was available on it. It was never meant to be "the site" for the series.
Fox and Universal had the official sites, likely developed by professional development teams, and was served up by hosting companies with lots of bandwidth.

Since we're on the subject, are the official sites still on the web? For a while someone was supposed to take over the operation of it. I haven't checked in a while.

In any case, yeah, lots of things are probably preventable, but having kept the site going all these years (it's been 5 years since the series was canceled), I think a little nonsense is forgivable every now and then, right?

Besides, if anyone would like to develop a website, I would rather they invest the effort into something new. Perhaps build a site for Joss' Dollhouse--not continue building a site for a long canceled series in a defunct scripting language for a platform that cost way too much.

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Thursday, July 24, 2008 5:44 PM

FUTUREMRSFILLION


Sorry Haken, I didn't say that! That was Sig.



I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original

"Yes-- Cheney are Bush are men of peace-- this we know. It is terrible that their good deeds are being thwarted, misinterpreted-- so much so that they are forced to direct others to torture prisoners." Professor Michael Levine







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Thursday, July 24, 2008 6:10 PM

HAKEN

Likes to mess with stuffs.


Quote:

Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:
Sorry Haken, I didn't say that! That was Sig.



I should have read better. My apologies.

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Thursday, July 24, 2008 6:23 PM

FUTUREMRSFILLION


de nada



*FMF faints dead away with the knowledge that the great and wonderful Haken has spoken to her*



I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original

"Yes-- Cheney are Bush are men of peace-- this we know. It is terrible that their good deeds are being thwarted, misinterpreted-- so much so that they are forced to direct others to torture prisoners." Professor Michael Levine







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Thursday, July 24, 2008 6:25 PM

SERGEANTX


Frankly, I'm appalled that Sigma's needs are not being met.

Haken must be punished! I propose a two-week suspension be instituted immediately. Then, if he makes a full public apology, we'll consider letting him administer our site again.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Thursday, July 24, 2008 6:31 PM

FOLLOWMAL



*waves to Chindi!*

Nice to see you!!! *hugs*

Haken, you already got my thanks type written over on Shiny Universe.

Now, I'll go put some money in that PayPal thingy over there and put my money where my typing is.

Thank you as always for making this wonderful place and for maintaining it and giving us still yet a home.

Like Chindi, this is my fave site, always will be home to me and I appreciate it so very much.

To answer your question about the official sites...
the Uni site as you know went down and Gossi made serenitymovie.org.
The OB ( the original board ) is still there and going strong ( it amazes me that Fox keeps it up! )although the talk about FF/S is intermittent just like it is here and the off topic threads, particularly poli threads get more posts.



http://community.kidsneedtoread.org/


http://www.iamasoftwire.com/


http://www.drhorrible.com/




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Thursday, July 24, 2008 6:38 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Haken:
I think a little nonsense is forgivable every now and then, right?


I SO totally agree; we heart our beloved Haken for this place- don't let any say any different!!
Firefly/Serenity is our great passion, the base of our entertainment existence...WE thank you, dude.

Oh crap- the cat s**t on the carpet...! Real life intrudes


Laterisall


BTW, I'm serious with the thank you thing...

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Thursday, July 24, 2008 6:40 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by SergeantX:
Frankly, I'm appalled that Sigma's needs are not being met.



BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAisall

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Thursday, July 24, 2008 7:00 PM

HAKEN

Likes to mess with stuffs.


Quote:

Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
Take that how you want, but those are the facts. Criticising him for facts is hardly out of line. In fact, it's part of the normal process of improving things. Again, I reference his first post on this thread in which he explicitly states that he won't, for whatever reason, improve things himself and worse yet, has refused all offers of help.

This isn't exactly respectful to the sites users. Especially since accepting help would have prevented or minimized all problems seen over the years.

I have no doubt that if this was an OSS software project, it would have been forked a long time ago. Because, that's what happens with "management" such as this. Unfortunately, domains can't be and there are probably copyright issues with some of the content here. So, sadly, it isn't going to happen even though this site desperately needs a rewrite.



I don't mind the criticism, so you are welcome to post your opinion.

I had responded to the wrong person in my previous post, please read that response because it partially addresses what you're saying.

As I have stated, this site was written in MS ASP. No one builds websites in classic ASP anymore. There are way better ways to build a fansite these days. A framework like Ruby on Rails is way more elegant.

I'm an uberfan like everyone else on here, but I'm not sure if this site warrants the effort of a rewrite. It's been 5 years since Firefly was canceled. Wouldn't all that human resource used for a rewrite be better spent elsewhere? Perhaps build a Dollhouse website or a website for some other cool TV series that might be around for a few seasons. Caprica and Fringe comes to mind.

Also FFF.NET isn't an OSS project. I don't know of any fansites that are. I have heard of fansites being built with OSS tools and frameworks. DotNetNuke and Joomla are commonplace nowadays. I've been seeing Flex too. Imagine a Dollhouse fansite built with Flex. That'll be a worthwhile project.

Anyway, my feelings are I see no point in continuing development of FFF.NET in a dead language and I see no point in rebuilding FFF.NET in a new framework for a long canceled series.

Now, if everyone is willing to build another fansite in RoR, we can certainly OSS that.

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Thursday, July 24, 2008 7:35 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Haken:
Quote:

Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
Take that how you want, but those are the facts. Criticising him for facts is hardly out of line. In fact, it's part of the normal process of improving things. Again, I reference his first post on this thread in which he explicitly states that he won't, for whatever reason, improve things himself and worse yet, has refused all offers of help.

This isn't exactly respectful to the sites users. Especially since accepting help would have prevented or minimized all problems seen over the years.

I have no doubt that if this was an OSS software project, it would have been forked a long time ago. Because, that's what happens with "management" such as this. Unfortunately, domains can't be and there are probably copyright issues with some of the content here. So, sadly, it isn't going to happen even though this site desperately needs a rewrite.



I don't mind the criticism, so you are welcome to post your opinion.

I had responded to the wrong person in my previous post, please read that response because it partially addresses what you're saying.

As I have stated, this site was written in MS ASP. No one builds websites in classic ASP anymore. There are way better ways to build a fansite these days. A framework like Ruby on Rails is way more elegant.

I'm an uberfan like everyone else on here, but I'm not sure if this site warrants the effort of a rewrite. It's been 5 years since Firefly was canceled. Wouldn't all that human resource used for a rewrite be better spent elsewhere? Perhaps build a Dollhouse website or a website for some other cool TV series that might be around for a few seasons. Caprica and Fringe comes to mind.

Also FFF.NET isn't an OSS project. I don't know of any fansites that are. I have heard of fansites being built with OSS tools and frameworks. DotNetNuke and Joomla are commonplace nowadays. I've been seeing Flex too. Imagine a Dollhouse fansite built with Flex. That'll be a worthwhile project.

Anyway, my feelings are I see no point in continuing development of FFF.NET in a dead language and I see no point in rebuilding FFF.NET in a new framework for a long canceled series.

Now, if everyone is willing to build another fansite in RoR, we can certainly OSS that.



Haken, let me add thanks for all that you do here.
It is generous of you to accept criticism even when it is fairly rude.
I was under the impression that this site was created around Feb of 2002, so that would make it 6.5 years old. Most of us are not accessing this site with computers that old.
I understand what Sygma is saying about your "not accepting help" and your "refusal" to upgrade or do things Sygma's way. However, I do not agree with him in the way he likely intends, and I think I know why you do not respond directly to those comments.

If Sigma has his way, there would be apparently many "Haken Helpers" sticking their grubby little paws into the workings that Haken took the time to create, tune, craft, and review. This means that every "helper" that didn't understand the nuances of the code (trust me, there are many who think they know what they are doing, but are actually clueless) and screwed up what Haken had so carefully and adroitly resolved previously, would be taking down the site until Haken had time to review what they had done, and conjure how to fix it, or undo the "help". This would create more downtime, more other problems, and longer repairs (trust me, it takes vastly more time - think multiples - to repair or undo what somebody else has done than to fix a previously working model that suddenly has a non-worky element; technical problems are much easier to troubleshoot than human problems.) Admin by committee is not the best template for net forums that I have seen. It would mean a lot more work for Haken, and a lot more repairs. I also appreciate that Haken does not constantly change or "upgrade" every couple months like so many other web admins love to do, in order to alienate their members and decrease visitations.
Again, Haken, thanks.

Now that I have disagreed with Sigma, I can make a suggestion for Haken. When the site was wonky, it was difficult to tell if our posts would be there the next day. No info was posted about when the wonkiness was gone, when it might be gone, when woek was being done towards it's resolution. If we'd had some input along those lines, it would have been more "user-friendly" as they say.
Can you let us know when you switch back to dual servers, which would be the burn-in test of the repairs?

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Thursday, July 24, 2008 7:41 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Haken:

Anyway, my feelings are I see no point in continuing development of FFF.NET in a dead language

Latin might work...
Okay, maybe I'm not funny here. But thanks for what you've given us to this point. Sincerely thanks, whatever happens.

Hawaii-lovin' Chrisisall

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Friday, July 25, 2008 10:36 AM

CHAPTERANDVERSE


Haken,
Thank you for this wonderful site. It may have picked up more passengers than you ever expected but its been love at first site for most of us!
Chapter.



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Friday, July 25, 2008 11:04 AM

WYTCHCROFT


Quote:

Originally posted by FollowMal*:

To answer your question about the official sites...
the Uni site as you know went down and Gossi made serenitymovie.org.



I am risking my neck to put words in Gossi's mouth here but - don't G feel the same as Haken???
The effort has been going into Dollverse/Dr Horrible... serenitymovie is just ticking over... it seems. I know Gossi has said nix to the idea of any more firefly/serenity actually happening... but i'm too nervous to ask!

Quote:

The OB ( the original board ) is still there and going strong ( it amazes me that Fox keeps it up! )


y'mean Prospero - my lurkers paradise??

Quote:

although the talk about FF/S is intermittent just like it is here


ah, but when it's ON here - there's no place like it right? There's more indepth discussion, analysis and speculation here than anywhere (IMHO?). you just have dig into the archives when it's a slow patch.

Quote:

and the off topic threads, particularly poll threads get more posts.



there is the HD site - as you know
http://boards.nbcuni.com/universalHD/

it's real basic - and i think the administrator may be in the deep freeze (darkstar style) or have regenerated in Cordrone, but it's there.

And the unofficial + browncoat forums are pretty busy.

it is true that we seem to have lost some of the regular in-depth posters here - but that may be ebb and flow - most are lurking or busy elsewhere (podcasts etc) but they are still fans.


Quote:

Haken: but I'm not sure if this site warrants the effort of a rewrite. It's been 5 years since Firefly was canceled. Wouldn't all that human resource used for a rewrite be better spent elsewhere? Perhaps build a Dollhouse website or a website for some other cool TV series...


there aint one as cool - that's the problem!
but i guess there are shows more popular...
(and hell, i LIKE BSG but...)

and despite the drag factor - the number of youngsters winging around FF sites right now is interesting since they could be seen as future audience - and could be cultivated - (no no put the shears down! i know, i know but we can be nice...). Darkhorse perhaps is part of the reason for that.

Quote:

Haken: Anyway, my feelings are I see no point in continuing development of FFF.NET in a dead language and I see no point in rebuilding FFF.NET in a new framework for a long canceled series.



man, you've been at this so long i don't hardly blame ya - but it makes me feel very sad, really very sad.

*FollowMal - i know you know all this - by which i mean 'i am not worthy!':)- i just had to let my mouth run (as ever).

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Friday, July 25, 2008 11:07 AM

MSB


HUGS Haken... and thanks again for making this site:)

____________________________________________

Love doesn't make the world go 'round; love is what makes the ride worthwhile.

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Friday, July 25, 2008 2:48 PM

STEAMER


Haken, I can see why you feel the way you do about the site and the series that inspired it. Point of interest? I've yet to see anyone bellyache quite so harshly about Myspace when they get some of those 'Sorry! an unexpected error has occurred' pages. (Which, I've noticed, seems to happen a lot more often than kooky FFF.) It's the Internet and therefore it's computers, something's bound to go crazy and fall asleep at some point - hell, I got booted off my network just as I was typing this.

However, I'd like to ask you respectfully to consider that the site still gets a great deal of traffic every day. Even though the series has been over for quite a while, the fandom by no means died with it. I've seen an influx of introductory threads and blog entries just in the past few months - new fans are still joining the ranks and signing up on a site that seems to have established itself as THE Firefly fansite, a fine and fun community for fans and friends. Sometimes it's mind-boggling what you do to keep it going for everyone as it is, but IMHO, the amount of activity around here, and the effect it has on the site, is hard to overlook. Because I don't think many users are much of the mind to take flight and find a new place to commune.

It's your site, and far be it from me to tell you how to run it. As I see it though, there's a great deal of life left in the site. I hope you'll keep this in mind as you're plotting the course.



Simon's got
To get a grip
River's turned
Into a ship
FIREFLY

Captain of the New England Browncoats
http://www.myspace.com/nebrowncoats

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Friday, July 25, 2008 2:59 PM

ZZETTA13


FFF.net is at the top of my favs list.

A well deserved "Thanks Haken" for your time and effort.

Z

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Friday, July 25, 2008 3:13 PM

WYTCHCROFT


Quote:

Originally posted by zzetta13:

A well deserved "Thanks Haken" for your time
Z



time? y'mean - Tuesday, October 03, 2006 10:41
(cue twilight zone music)

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Friday, July 25, 2008 3:49 PM

HAKEN

Likes to mess with stuffs.


Quote:

Originally posted by Steamer:
However, I'd like to ask you respectfully to consider that the site still gets a great deal of traffic every day. Even though the series has been over for quite a while, the fandom by no means died with it. I've seen an influx of introductory threads and blog entries just in the past few months - new fans are still joining the ranks and signing up on a site that seems to have established itself as THE Firefly fansite, a fine and fun community for fans and friends. Sometimes it's mind-boggling what you do to keep it going for everyone as it is, but IMHO, the amount of activity around here, and the effect it has on the site, is hard to overlook. Because I don't think many users are much of the mind to take flight and find a new place to commune.



While it may seem like there are new members joining the site and an increase in activity, the overall traffic to the site has actually dropped over the past year. As such, my main focus right now is to get Shiny Universe to some usable point before the Fall TV season starts.

If and when SU becomes stable and if traffic to FFF.NET remains steady, I might consider rebuilding FFF.NET. We'll just have to wait and see.

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Sunday, July 27, 2008 12:56 PM

SIGMANUNKI


Quote:

Originally posted by Haken:

As I have stated, this site was written in MS ASP. No one builds websites in classic ASP anymore. There are way better ways to build a fansite these days. A framework like Ruby on Rails is way more elegant.




I never said that the site should be rewritten in ASP.

I must say that although I agree that RoR/etc would be more elegant, my personal opinion on RoR and similar stuff is that although it is great for rapid prototyping, it isn't necessarily the best for a production site. As in, you never know what's really going on in those internals unless you go through them. Sure, there is a certain level of trust with any framework, library, etc. But, RoR/etc, IMO, takes it too far.


Quote:

Originally posted by Haken:

Also FFF.NET isn't an OSS project.




Never said it was. I was doing a comparison.


Quote:

Originally posted by Haken:

Anyway, my feelings are I see no point in continuing development of FFF.NET in a dead language and I see no point in rebuilding FFF.NET in a new framework for a long canceled series.




You have a point, but think about it from another angle.

Though the series is finished, though it has been for some time, people, many people, still use this site daily. They have and continue to invest a significant amount of time in this site. So, its continued existence and stability isn't insignificant. Far from in fact.

What I'm not saying is that you have to do it. What I am saying is that it isn't necessarily wise to not allow anyone else to do it just because you don't want to.

I have a loose, "use this or that tech" type doc with some other ideas lying around my hdd if you're interested. Let me know if you are, otherwise I'll consider this speaking my piece.


----
I am on The Original List (twice). We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

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Sunday, July 27, 2008 1:01 PM

SIGMANUNKI


@JewelStaiteFan:

You haven't disagreed with anything that I've said. You've disagreed with a straw man.

You don't seem to understand how such a team would work (have you ever worked in such a team?). Let me explain.

Given several developers working together there would be goals for any given milestone all working together using a SCM (e.g. CVS, Subversion, Mercurial, etc) to share there code. The code would be developed on the developers own computer so there wouldn't be any downtime on the production site due to any incompetence on the part of a developer during development. Also, not everyone would be given write access to the code repository. Assumedly, one would have be given read-only access (if there isn't already public anonymous read-only access) and then they would be given small tasks to complete, participating in debugging and other small tasks. Once trust is built and competence is proven, then they may get write access and officially become part of the development team.

The typical life-cycle goes:

1) implement milestone goals
2) once "complete" put on a feature/code freeze with some developers going to (1) for the next milestone, with the rest continuing onto (3) (branches are lovely)
3) debug, debug, debug...
4) release to a beta site and ask for users to hammer it. Upon flaws return to (3) else (5)
5) release to production site and goto (1)

The first release would of course include many iterations of the above.


Also, I said nothing about an "admin by committee". I also said nothing about constant "upgrades" or any such thing. What I'm talking about is fixing problems that exist (i.e. maintenance), and POSSIBLY give people a few features that they've been screaming for for years (e.g. paging). And doing this collaboratively. Ideally, there should also be more than one person with admin privileges on the production server (ssh is a beautiful thing). That way things can be fixed faster. But, that's it and these are all typical things to have in place. Don't put words in my mouth. Because, if collaboration didn't work, you wouldn't be typing on your computer (OS's, etc, etc, etc, are good examples of such).

The only thing I'm saying is that standard maintenance isn't going to cut it (from Haken's responses he seems to agree with this), that a rewrite is necessary to get things going optimally and that it should be done.

----
I am on The Original List (twice). We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

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