TALK STORY

How often do you just take time and wonder - What IS out there in the black ?

POSTED BY: AURAPTOR
UPDATED: Friday, May 8, 2009 10:30
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Thursday, May 7, 2009 3:35 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


When I think of the stuff we cling to as being so damn important in every day life, every once in a while, I think of my fav movie opening of all time.






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Thursday, May 7, 2009 4:22 PM

CYBERSNARK


Quite often, but then I'm a sci-fi writer, much of my career is based around what (and who) might be out there (and what they might be doing, and what our place is in all of that).

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Thursday, May 7, 2009 4:49 PM

HAKEN

Likes to mess with stuffs.


I like this one:



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Thursday, May 7, 2009 4:51 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Haken:
I like this one:






I miss Carl.




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Thursday, May 7, 2009 5:08 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


How often? Every day. Of course, this usually leads to ruminations on the nature of not only what's out there, but what "there" really is. And what's beyond "there". And the structure of space, the nature of time, the possibility of stepping between dimensions and thusly between times and spaces, and so on.

What can I say? I get bored sometimes, and watching the universe work and move - even if only in my imagination, and not in real time - is wonderfully calming.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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Thursday, May 7, 2009 5:23 PM

TDBROWN


Sometimes, I think the absolute best proof that there is Intelligent Life elsewhere is that they have had the enormus common sense to stay far, far away from US!

"Might have been the losing side, still not convinced it was the wrong one." -Mal

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Thursday, May 7, 2009 5:54 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Too bloody true.

In answer to the thread title, you know what's out there ?

A whole lotta nothin and more nothin, empty stuff between the places - that's why they call it...

SPACE!

*rimshot*

-F

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Friday, May 8, 2009 1:58 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


If ever I start buying into 'Intelligent Design', the fact that there's so much distance between us and what ever else is out there might be the tipping point.




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Friday, May 8, 2009 2:33 AM

AGENTROUKA


Thank you for sharing. :) I forgot how much I adore this movie, and the opening is truly lovely. Humbling and inspiring.



But at the same time.. if we are so remote, so alone, so tiny with so much space around us... how relevant IS what is around us, actually. How much do we really need to think about it, when the realities of our lives are right here, right now.

People used to find the same humility in the remote desert on this very planet, or on the sea, when they wanted quiet from the reality of human society. In the distant future of Firefly, people need to fly off to the edge of the new solar system to find it on the edge of the "Black". It's all about where we are, not what is out there.

In the end, gazing to the distance offers us a moment of perspective and a moment of respite, but to be wondering about it too much does us little good, when we need to be here in body and mind to solve our problems.


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Friday, May 8, 2009 2:44 AM

JONGSSTRAW


I love the movie and I loved the opening scene. I'm an amateur astronomer and have been observing the universe for about 25 years. I have a Meade 10" Schmidt-Cassegrain telescope that I keep on my terrace. I have a wide-open easterly view, so I get to observe objects as they rise up from the horizon to almost overhead. Also get into astro-photography a bit too. I have a nice collection of photos of planets, moon, clusters, and nebulae. They pale in comparison to Hubble or Observatory photos you see in books, but I get a big kick out my pictures. If I keep looking thru the scope long enough I may one day see Jubal Early floating our way.

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Friday, May 8, 2009 3:04 AM

THESOMNAMBULIST


Yes.. Quiet often. One of the amazing things about living in the country was the fact that the stars are so bright, so expansive that they really are like a blanket across the sky. Sometimes in the dark of winter in the UK I could really see the shape of the milky way. It was truly wonderous.

Now I'm in Australia, having just recently moved, and it's amazing. It's like I have a whole new universe to explore. It's going to be fun.

Often though if you dwell on these things too much you sort of send your mind into a astrophysical cul de sac!

It's beautiful though aint it.

As for sci-fi intro's... I was always partial to this:









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Friday, May 8, 2009 3:12 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by AgentRouka:
Thank you for sharing. :) I forgot how much I adore this movie, and the opening is truly lovely. Humbling and inspiring.



But at the same time.. if we are so remote, so alone, so tiny with so much space around us... how relevant IS what is around us, actually. How much do we really need to think about it, when the realities of our lives are right here, right now.

People used to find the same humility in the remote desert on this very planet, or on the sea, when they wanted quiet from the reality of human society. In the distant future of Firefly, people need to fly off to the edge of the new solar system to find it on the edge of the "Black". It's all about where we are, not what is out there.

In the end, gazing to the distance offers us a moment of perspective and a moment of respite, but to be wondering about it too much does us little good, when we need to be here in body and mind to solve our problems.




It is quite a balancing act, keeping track of what's in front of us, while gazing off into the distance.




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Friday, May 8, 2009 3:58 AM

AGENTROUKA


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
It is quite a balancing act, keeping track of what's in front of us, while gazing off into the distance.




Very true.

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Friday, May 8, 2009 4:12 AM

FINN MAC CUMHAL


I stopped worrying about it when it occurred to me that life and conditions for life are so rare that we will probably never find them outside of our planet.

Also all these youtube videos have portrayed the Milky Way wrong. It is actually a barred galaxy, not an ordinary galaxy as it is usually portrayed.




Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Friday, May 8, 2009 5:19 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
I stopped worrying about it when it occurred to me that life and conditions for life are so rare that we will probably never find them outside of our planet.



Yup. I wouldn't say I've ever *worried* about it. I do wonder, though. Not so much about what IS out there, but what HAS BEEN and WILL BE. 20 billion years is a long time...

As for life in the universe, I'm fairly convinced that wherever life CAN exist, it WILL. Life reaches out, always. Thing is, though, that if you lay out a graph with the age of the universe as one axis, and the SIZE of the universe as another, and then start looking around for specific points - both in space AND in time - where life might have existed, you start seeing how futile the search can be. And we're talking about ANY form of life that we'd recognize as "life"; that doesn't even account for narrowing it down to "intelligent life".

I liken it to telling someone that here's the Sahara Desert, and there's a diamond in it the size of a grain of sand, and I want them to find it. Oh, and there's one more catch - that diamond only exists for one second every one thousand years. Good luck!


Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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Friday, May 8, 2009 5:43 AM

FINN MAC CUMHAL


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
I liken it to telling someone that here's the Sahara Desert, and there's a diamond in it the size of a grain of sand, and I want them to find it. Oh, and there's one more catch - that diamond only exists for one second every one thousand years. Good luck!

That’s about the size of it.

Those who use the size of the universe to claim that it is statistically impossible for life not to exist somewhere else in the universe, never seem to stop to think that the same immensity means we will very probably never encounter any such life if it does exist. Personally, I’m certain that out of the thousands of galaxies, one of them must have a planet where some form of intelligent life has formed other then us, but it will take life times to navigate just within our tinny cluster of 11 stars. Baring some scientific discovery that overturns much of what we understand about physics right now (which isn’t entirely ridiculous) we will never populate the tinny Orion Spur (the arm of the Milky Way where the Sun is located), much less move beyond our own galaxy.



Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Friday, May 8, 2009 5:55 AM

2BY2GINGERBLUE


Gosh,
I love this movie and am going to pull it out and watch it tonight. I love it because it was a movie about what could be out there and didn't rely on tons of special effects. Thanks for reminding me I have it.

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Friday, May 8, 2009 5:55 AM

RIPWASH


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
I stopped worrying about it when it occurred to me that life and conditions for life are so rare that we will probably never find them outside of our planet.



Yup. I wouldn't say I've ever *worried* about it. I do wonder, though. Not so much about what IS out there, but what HAS BEEN and WILL BE. 20 billion years is a long time...

As for life in the universe, I'm fairly convinced that wherever life CAN exist, it WILL. Life reaches out, always. Thing is, though, that if you lay out a graph with the age of the universe as one axis, and the SIZE of the universe as another, and then start looking around for specific points - both in space AND in time - where life might have existed, you start seeing how futile the search can be. And we're talking about ANY form of life that we'd recognize as "life"; that doesn't even account for narrowing it down to "intelligent life".

I liken it to telling someone that here's the Sahara Desert, and there's a diamond in it the size of a grain of sand, and I want them to find it. Oh, and there's one more catch - that diamond only exists for one second every one thousand years. Good luck!


Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.



"It's LIFE, Captain, but not as we know it."

From a Christian viewpoint, that's something I've struggled with. We are just a tiny speck in the ginormous universe. It would seem that the odds would be that there MIGHT be other life out there. But on the other hand, it's said that Earth is in such a precise position relative to the Sun that any deviation from it's course and life couldn't exist here. And it's with that thought process I often wonder about the planets and moons of the 'Verse. Terraforming would have meant much more than just making the land liveable and air breathable. At least that's what I would expect.

And the life not as we know it? I think sometimes that could absolutely be true. There COULD be life out there that we just wouldn't expect - lifeforms that breath different atmosphere's, see differently, reproduce differently, etc.

But, as I believe there IS a God it's amazing that he put all that stuff out there for our viewing enjoyment. He can hold it all in the palm of his hand, looks through all of it down to the spec we call Earth and sees US and loves us. I know that might not be a popular point of view here, but that's an awesome thought and one that I cherish.

Mal: You think she'll hold together?
Zoë: She's torn up plenty, but she'll fly true.
Mal: Could be bumpy.
Zoë: Always is

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Friday, May 8, 2009 6:00 AM

2BY2GINGERBLUE


Quote:

Originally posted by Haken:
I like this one:





Fantastic!
Thank you for that Haken.

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Friday, May 8, 2009 6:21 AM

AGENTROUKA


Quote:

Originally posted by RIPWash:
But, as I believe there IS a God it's amazing that he put all that stuff out there for our viewing enjoyment. He can hold it all in the palm of his hand, looks through all of it down to the spec we call Earth and sees US and loves us. I know that might not be a popular point of view here, but that's an awesome thought and one that I cherish.




I don't think anyone would fault you for that belief, if it brings comfort and meaning to your life. It's not like you're posting here declaring that the Earth is flat, we're circling the sun and no other life can exist because it's not mentioned in the Bible. You seem to take the world as we scientifically explore and discover it, not one that you have pre-decided must exist in a certain way and structure.

As an agnostic, I wouldn't presume to say that there cannot be a God presiding over the natural world we are still in the process of understanding. I only get irate when people refuse to open their minds to the scientific understanding we have already achieved. I guess that happens when the Bible texts are taken very literally.. but I do not know too much about that.

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Friday, May 8, 2009 6:24 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
I liken it to telling someone that here's the Sahara Desert, and there's a diamond in it the size of a grain of sand, and I want them to find it. Oh, and there's one more catch - that diamond only exists for one second every one thousand years. Good luck!

That’s about the size of it.

Those who use the size of the universe to claim that it is statistically impossible for life not to exist somewhere else in the universe, never seem to stop to think that the same immensity means we will very probably never encounter any such life if it does exist. Personally, I’m certain that out of the thousands of galaxies, one of them must have a planet where some form of intelligent life has formed other then us, but it will take life times to navigate just within our tinny cluster of 11 stars. Baring some scientific discovery that overturns much of what we understand about physics right now (which isn’t entirely ridiculous) we will never populate the tinny Orion Spur (the arm of the Milky Way where the Sun is located), much less move beyond our own galaxy.



Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero




Exactly so. And it's not just the size of the universe you've got to take into account - it's the size of the immensity of TIME - all time as we know it, or as it exists since the Big Bang. You've got sixteen to twenty BILLION years in which life could have evolved, existed, become intelligent and aware, and then found us. Think about it - we've existed on this rock for probably less than 3 million years - out of some 4-5 billion that the rock has been here. Within the last hundred or so we've figured out radio transmissions. Within the last 50 we've figured out space flight in any form (if you accept that we ever went to the moon, that is). So we've got a window of about 50 years out of 20 billion where someone might have found us interesting.


I'm not saying it's impossible. I'm not saying we shouldn't be on the lookout for that diamond in the sand, because if we DO find it, it could be worth... EVERYTHING. It could be worth the universe. Or could cost us the same.

So it's worth looking, but no going in that the odds in your favor are vanishingly small.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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Friday, May 8, 2009 6:37 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by RIPWash:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
I stopped worrying about it when it occurred to me that life and conditions for life are so rare that we will probably never find them outside of our planet.



Yup. I wouldn't say I've ever *worried* about it. I do wonder, though. Not so much about what IS out there, but what HAS BEEN and WILL BE. 20 billion years is a long time...

As for life in the universe, I'm fairly convinced that wherever life CAN exist, it WILL. Life reaches out, always. Thing is, though, that if you lay out a graph with the age of the universe as one axis, and the SIZE of the universe as another, and then start looking around for specific points - both in space AND in time - where life might have existed, you start seeing how futile the search can be. And we're talking about ANY form of life that we'd recognize as "life"; that doesn't even account for narrowing it down to "intelligent life".

I liken it to telling someone that here's the Sahara Desert, and there's a diamond in it the size of a grain of sand, and I want them to find it. Oh, and there's one more catch - that diamond only exists for one second every one thousand years. Good luck!


Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.



"It's LIFE, Captain, but not as we know it."

From a Christian viewpoint, that's something I've struggled with. We are just a tiny speck in the ginormous universe. It would seem that the odds would be that there MIGHT be other life out there. But on the other hand, it's said that Earth is in such a precise position relative to the Sun that any deviation from it's course and life couldn't exist here. And it's with that thought process I often wonder about the planets and moons of the 'Verse. Terraforming would have meant much more than just making the land liveable and air breathable. At least that's what I would expect.

And the life not as we know it? I think sometimes that could absolutely be true. There COULD be life out there that we just wouldn't expect - lifeforms that breath different atmosphere's, see differently, reproduce differently, etc.

But, as I believe there IS a God it's amazing that he put all that stuff out there for our viewing enjoyment. He can hold it all in the palm of his hand, looks through all of it down to the spec we call Earth and sees US and loves us. I know that might not be a popular point of view here, but that's an awesome thought and one that I cherish.

Mal: You think she'll hold together?
Zoë: She's torn up plenty, but she'll fly true.
Mal: Could be bumpy.
Zoë: Always is



Things get weirder every day, Ripper. Scientists HAVE found a roughly Earth-size planet orbiting a distant star, in the orbital zone around that star where liquid water could exist on the planet's surface. So while it might not be *common*, Earth-ish planets might not be all that rare, either. We've looked at so very little of our own galaxy, and haven't looked at all into the depths of other galaxies, of which there are billions, each with hundreds of billions of stars. Just imagine, there are thousands of stars out there for every person on Earth, every person that ever existed or ever will.

I find it every bit as awe-inspiring to imagine us looking out into that "abyss" as I do to imagine some creator looking back in at us. Think of it - it's all there, and so far as we know, it's all ours, if only we could figure out how to get there...

And who knows what life might be out there? Who knows if we'd even recognize it if it were? We *barely* recognize each other as life, most of us DON'T recognize animals as having any sort of intelligence, and plants? Fuhgeddabouddit. For all we know, a lichen colony in upper Michigan could be the most intelligent thing on Earth - after all, it's smart enough not to let on that it's smart. :) We just haven't figured out how to speak the language of the other life forms here on our very own planet yet, much less any NEW life forms we might find off-world.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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Friday, May 8, 2009 6:38 AM

JONGSSTRAW









"Several hundred never before seen galaxies are visible in this "deepest-ever" view of the universe, called the Hubble Deep Field (HDF), made with NASA's Hubble Space Telescope. Besides the classical spiral and elliptical shaped galaxies, there is a bewildering variety of other galaxy shapes and colors that are important clues to understanding the evolution of the universe. Some of the galaxies may have formed less that one billion years after the Big Bang.

Representing a narrow "keyhole" view all the way to the visible horizon of the universe, the HDF image covers a speck of sky 1/30th the diameter of the full Moon (about 25% of the entire HDF is shown here). This is so narrow, just a few foreground stars in our Milky Way galaxy are visible and are vastly outnumbered by the menagerie of far more distant galaxies, some nearly as faint as 30th magnitude, or nearly four billion times fainter than the limits of human vision. (The relatively bright object with diffraction spikes just left of center may be a 20th magnitude star.) Though the field is a very small sample of sky area it is considered representative of the typical distribution of galaxies in space because the universe, statistically, looks the same in all directions.

The image was assembled from many separate exposures (342 frames total were taken, 276 have been fully processed to date and used for this picture) with the Wide Field and Planetary Camera 2 (WFPC2), for ten consecutive days between December 18 to 28, 1995. This picture is from one of three wide-field CCD (Charged Coupled Device) detectors on the WFPC2.

This "true-color" view was assembled from separate images were taken in blue, red, and infrared light. By combining these separate images into a single color picture, astronomers will be able to infer -- at least statistically -- the distance, age, and composition of galaxies in the field. Bluer objects contain young stars and/or are relatively close, while redder objects contain older stellar populations and/or farther away.

This material was presented to the 187th meeting of the American Astronomical Society in San Antonio, Texas on January 15, 1996. Credit: Robert Williams and the Hubble Deep Field Team (STScI) and NASA"





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Friday, May 8, 2009 6:59 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Thanks, Jongs. I love that picture. Or montage. :)

As I heard it described, the "slice" of sky represented in that photo is about the size your eye sees the period at the end of this sentence - if you held it out at arm's length, that is. And in that tiny speck of the sky... billions of stars and hundreds of galaxies. :jawdrop:

And if you look deeper, you'll see even more stars and galaxies.

Some people think about this stuff and feel very insignificant; I think about it and am just in awe that I'm even able to see it and comprehend the vastness of the universe. That alone proves that we are anything but insignificant! :)

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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Friday, May 8, 2009 8:19 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Thanks, Jongs. I love that picture. Or montage. :)

As I heard it described, the "slice" of sky represented in that photo is about the size your eye sees the period at the end of this sentence - if you held it out at arm's length, that is. And in that tiny speck of the sky... billions of stars and hundreds of galaxies. :jawdrop:

And if you look deeper, you'll see even more stars and galaxies.

Some people think about this stuff and feel very insignificant; I think about it and am just in awe that I'm even able to see it and comprehend the vastness of the universe. That alone proves that we are anything but insignificant! :)

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.


Don't look at it too long, or you might turn into a Reaver. Oh wait, staring into the abyss of space didn't actually cause that now as we know.
That pic really blew my mind when it came out a few years ago....imagine, each one of those specks is a full galaxy, and the distances between them are millions of light years. Our own galactic neighbor, Andromeda is 2.2 million light-years away from us and only appears as an indistinguishable star-like speck of light in the sky.

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Friday, May 8, 2009 10:30 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Our own galactic neighbor, Andromeda is 2.2 million light-years away from us and only appears as an indistinguishable star-like speck of light in the sky.


Yeah... on the one hand, it appears to the naked eye as nothing more than a tiny, insignifican smudge in the sky, not even a point of light that you can focus on, just a tiny blur.

On the other hand - and this is the part I like - YOU CAN SEE ANOTHER FREAKING GALAXY WITH YOUR NAKED EYE!

How player is that, man?

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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