TALK STORY

We can't know God's divine plan *warning- 'R'-rated rant ensues*

POSTED BY: CHRISISALL
UPDATED: Friday, February 26, 2010 09:16
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 6268
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Tuesday, February 23, 2010 6:14 PM

CHRISISALL


If God existed he'd be one fucked-up individual, creating a world to mess with, just to find out about us that which he already knows & designed into us...

I have these fuckin' Jehovas Witlessnesses bangin' on my door weekly tellin' me that it's all a gorram mystery-
the only mystery I can figure is how these peeps could feed themselves without their idiotic jobs irritatin' folk like me...

God's plan is to make us unhappy, as far as I can tell.

Ding-Dong, assholes calling!

Okay. Back to my meditation. Thank you for your indulgence.


The laughing Chrisisall

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Tuesday, February 23, 2010 6:24 PM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Okay. Back to my meditation.


Shouldn't that be medication?


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Tuesday, February 23, 2010 6:28 PM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.


I prefer to think of myself as a Deist. It seems logical that there is something behind the creation of the Universe, but I don't think of it in anthropomorphic terms. Rather than God creating man in his own image I think man created the concept of God in man's own image.

There was a creation but there was no specific intent or purpose other than like a scientific experiment, just to see what would happen. We are the result.



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Tuesday, February 23, 2010 6:33 PM

CHRISISALL


Life happens, like light & black holes.
We must deal with it.


The laughing Chrisisall

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Tuesday, February 23, 2010 6:46 PM

OPPYH


There is a purpose to life. You can focus on the negative aspects of life easily(most people do). I like to enjoy life. I focus on the positive, and find humor in how crappy things can be at times.

Life is a beautiful, painful experience. Try to enjoy the ride my friend.


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Tuesday, February 23, 2010 6:51 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Life is a terminal condition. No one here gets out alive.

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Tuesday, February 23, 2010 7:02 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Life is a terminal condition. No one here gets out alive.


It's a continuum, we get in & out, over & over.
We are all made of stars.


The eternal Chrisisall

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Tuesday, February 23, 2010 11:36 PM

FILLYGIRL

Operative: "Its worse than you know..." Mal: "It usually is."


L I F E is a four letter word. I hate it, always problems, not much thats 'shiny'...


Chaplain of the 76th Independant Battalion


Do not bother dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!


...it's worse than you know...Operative
...it usually is.....Mal

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Wednesday, February 24, 2010 2:16 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by OPPYH:
There is a purpose to life. You can focus on the negative aspects of life easily(most people do). I like to enjoy life. I focus on the positive, and find humor in how crappy things can be at times.

Life is a beautiful, painful experience. Try to enjoy the ride my friend.




Listen to Brutha Oppyh. If there was a God he/she'd be shaking their head wondering how we cannot laugh at all the silliness.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Wednesday, February 24, 2010 2:34 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Chris, maybe your liberal outlook is being studied to see how tolerant and understanding you can be in the face of a frustrating personal situation. Maybe this is YOUR Kobayashi Maru. There is no right or wrong answer, only your own way of dealing with it is what matters.

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Wednesday, February 24, 2010 3:15 AM

PLAINJAYNE


It's all a joke, but sometimes it just aint gorram funny. I feel ya.

Is it the full moon again, or just a crap misalignment of stars? Seems I'm not alone in my feelings today.

Misery loves company, though, right? Welcome aboard.

Day late an'a dollar short...Story of my ruttin' life!

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Wednesday, February 24, 2010 4:27 AM

ZEEK


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Life is a terminal condition. No one here gets out alive.


psssh we're all immortal until proven otherwise.

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Wednesday, February 24, 2010 5:39 AM

THESOMNAMBULIST


Once you humanize your God you render the notion irrelevant. Any deity by definition should be beyond human reach and/or comprehension.

To conceive the notion requires purpose which then demands reason and sense, however the very concept is unreasonable and makes no sense.... so

...pass the beer nuts!




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Wednesday, February 24, 2010 7:26 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Chris, maybe your liberal outlook is being studied to see how tolerant and understanding you can be in the face of a frustrating personal situation. Maybe this is YOUR Kobayashi Maru. There is no right or wrong answer, only your own way of dealing with it is what matters.

I have not killed those Witnesses. I think I've grown.


The laughing Chrisisall

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Wednesday, February 24, 2010 7:27 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:


...pass the beer nuts!




I was a beer nut in another life...


The laughing Chrisisall

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Wednesday, February 24, 2010 7:51 AM

CORNCOBB


ecgordon wrote
Quote:

It seems logical that there is something behind the creation of the Universe


Sorry, really, but it isn't logical. According to logic, you cannot explain any event by attributing it to something even more inexplicable (such as a deity). That is Infinite Regress, and is a counter-logical argument.

I don't mean to be rude, or pick on your beliefs. I'm open minded enough to admit that we as human beings don't know everything, and that I could be wrong in my belief that there is no god, just cosmic accidents. I even admit that logic may not always have the answers - occam's razor isn't as sharp as it used to be But to say that the notion of our being created by higher beings is logical is technically innaccurate.

"Gorramit Mal... I've forgotten my line."

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Wednesday, February 24, 2010 7:55 AM

CHRISISALL


Does not a painting have a painter?



The God-fearing Chrisisall

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Wednesday, February 24, 2010 8:04 AM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.


Quote:

Originally posted by Corncobb:
ecgordon wrote
Quote:

It seems logical that there is something behind the creation of the Universe


Sorry, really, but it isn't logical. According to logic, you cannot explain any event by attributing it to something even more inexplicable (such as a deity). That is Infinite Regress, and is a counter-logical argument.

I don't mean to be rude, or pick on your beliefs. I'm open minded enough to admit that we as human beings don't know everything, and that I could be wrong in my belief that there is no god, just cosmic accidents. I even admit that logic may not always have the answers - occam's razor isn't as sharp as it used to be But to say that the notion of our being created by higher beings is logical is technically innaccurate.

"Gorramit Mal... I've forgotten my line."


But don't forget that I followed that statement with the fact I don't attribute any anthropomorphic properties to whatever it was that is responsible for the creation. You can't offend me because I prefer to say that I don't have any beliefs because I'm not intelligent enough to understand the essence of what that sort of deity might be like. All religions, and even most philosophies of a more secular nature, have as their purpose an attempt to explain the unexplainable.

If it is not logical to assume a creator then it certainly isn't logical to assume otherwise either.



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Wednesday, February 24, 2010 8:07 AM

CHRISISALL


Besides, carbon units are not true life forms...


The laughing Chrisisall

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Wednesday, February 24, 2010 9:15 AM

STORYMARK


It "seems" logical.... huh.

To me, it "seems" just as "logical" (as in, there is little to be applied in the conversation) that we are just a natural occurrence.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, February 24, 2010 9:44 AM

OPPYH


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
It "seems" logical.... huh.

To me, it "seems" just as "logical" (as in, there is little to be applied in the conversation) that we are just a natural occurrence.


Yeah, what is unnatural is the 'perfect placement' of everything on this earth and in our solar system.
The distance of the sun from the earth is perfect for us. Any closer, and we all be living underground. The 'hardwiring' of human sex drive. Any more and we be fiends(Tiger Woods) any less, and our numbers would eventually wither and die. Just enough to keep our species alive and kicking for the next few hundred thousand years.
Enough water(For 95% of countries anyway) for us to live comfortably. The perfection of the seasons, our life cycles in general, our nervous system, our ability to love.
If this is random I'd give my life to comprehend a planned order to the universe.

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Wednesday, February 24, 2010 9:49 AM

STORYMARK


That only applies if you assume life MUST have developed on earth, and nowhere else. Otherwise, with the VAST number and variety of planets and other bodies in the universe, statistics indicate that the right conditions were bound to exist somewhere.

But those bound by religious dogma tend to assume that Earth really is the center of the universe, and for those things to happen HERE proves divine intervention.

But then, if you apply actual logic.... poof.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, February 24, 2010 9:56 AM

OPPYH


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
That only applies if you assume life MUST have developed on earth, and nowhere else. Otherwise, with the VAST number and variety of planets and other bodies in the universe, statistics indicate that the right conditions were bound to exist somewhere.



Intriguing isn't a big enough word. Good point.

In the 90's some scientists theorized that there are more stars in the universe than grains of sand on the earth.

That put into proportion just how small(and I mean SMALL) we really are. I was humbled, and will never, ever feel we are just a natural occurrence.

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Wednesday, February 24, 2010 10:39 AM

CORNCOBB


posted by OPPYH:
Quote:

In the 90's some scientists theorized that there are more stars in the universe than grains of sand on the earth.

That put into proportion just how small(and I mean SMALL) we really are. I was humbled, and will never, ever feel we are just a natural occurrence.



But that's the whole point. We are one planet out of untold billions. Even if the were thousand to one odds of any one planet having life, the odds would still be in life's favour. Given the size of the universe, it's a foregone conclusion that the right conditions for life exist somewhere. Even if we are alone, it is natural for us to exist.

"Gorramit Mal... I've forgotten my line."

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Wednesday, February 24, 2010 10:54 AM

CORNCOBB


Quote:

Originally posted by ecgordon:
Quote:

Originally posted by Corncobb:
ecgordon wrote
Quote:

It seems logical that there is something behind the creation of the Universe


Sorry, really, but it isn't logical. According to logic, you cannot explain any event by attributing it to something even more inexplicable (such as a deity). That is Infinite Regress, and is a counter-logical argument.

I don't mean to be rude, or pick on your beliefs. I'm open minded enough to admit that we as human beings don't know everything, and that I could be wrong in my belief that there is no god, just cosmic accidents. I even admit that logic may not always have the answers - occam's razor isn't as sharp as it used to be But to say that the notion of our being created by higher beings is logical is technically innaccurate.

"Gorramit Mal... I've forgotten my line."


But don't forget that I followed that statement with the fact I don't attribute any anthropomorphic properties to whatever it was that is responsible for the creation. You can't offend me because I prefer to say that I don't have any beliefs because I'm not intelligent enough to understand the essence of what that sort of deity might be like. All religions, and even most philosophies of a more secular nature, have as their purpose an attempt to explain the unexplainable.

If it is not logical to assume a creator then it certainly isn't logical to assume otherwise either.





I think you misunderstand. A deity doesn't need to be anthropomorphic to be unlikely to exist. You can say that the earth was created by a deity, and that cannot be proved or disproved, but it is still not logical, in the correct usage of the word, because it does not explain anything. You are attributing the existence of one incredibly improbable complex thing to the existence of something else that is infinitely more complex and infinitely less probable. I'm not saying it is impossible, or even an unreasonable guess, I'm just saying that you cannot arrive at that conclusion through pure logic, i.e. by attributing the actual rules of logical deduction, because you are still left with explaining something inexplicable. Whereas the Big Bang theory, while still flawed, has the virtue (from a logical perspective) that it does not lead to Infinite Regress, as only simple objects were required to trigger the big bang.
I'm not saying that makes the Big Bang more likely than creationism, it's just the conclusion that logical deduction leads us to. If goldfish were to consider where their tank came from, it would actually be correct for them to assume a more advanced being created it, but they still couldn't arrive at that conclusion via logic.

"Gorramit Mal... I've forgotten my line."

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Wednesday, February 24, 2010 11:19 AM

MINCINGBEAST


i've outgrown the impulse to try to convince theists to go apostate, and give into godless existential despair. there's really no point in trying to argue god out of people, or into people. no sympathy for anyone credulous enough to believe in anything, planned or otherwise. edit: but for sargon. believe.

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Wednesday, February 24, 2010 1:49 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Zeek:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Life is a terminal condition. No one here gets out alive.


psssh we're all immortal until proven otherwise.



That ranks right up there with the supposed "infallibility" of the pope. Color me reactionary, but I'd say death is a bit of a failing... ;)

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Wednesday, February 24, 2010 1:58 PM

CHRISISALL


Nothing dies that was ever something.

Where is the Sun at night? Somewhere.

Dreams are unconscious connections to our other lives.

We were seeded here by Sargon & his peeps.


The laughing Chrisisall

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Wednesday, February 24, 2010 2:32 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
If God existed he'd be one fucked-up individual, creating a world to mess with, just to find out about us that which he already knows & designed into us...

The laughing Chrisisall



Letting off some steam is fun, huh?





Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first.

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Wednesday, February 24, 2010 2:51 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:


Letting off some steam is fun, huh?




Totally.


The laughing Chrisisall

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Wednesday, February 24, 2010 3:22 PM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.


I should have known better than to get involved in this. The last thing I would ever try to do is convince someone I had any notion of what the reality of the universe actually is. Nothing of this nature can be proven either way, so why even bother speculating?

"One man's religion is another man's belly laugh." - Woodrow Wilson Smith



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Wednesday, February 24, 2010 3:38 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by ecgordon:
I should have known better than to get involved in this. The last thing I would ever try to do is convince someone I had any notion of what the reality of the universe actually is. Nothing of this nature can be proven either way, so why even bother speculating?


Because it can be fun.
My take is that we exist. Why?
"Why does the sun come up? Or are the stars just pinholes in the curtain of darkness? Who knows?"




The laughing Chrisisall

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Wednesday, February 24, 2010 7:22 PM

DMAANLILEILTT


Quote:

Originally posted by OPPYH:
Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
It "seems" logical.... huh.

To me, it "seems" just as "logical" (as in, there is little to be applied in the conversation) that we are just a natural occurrence.


Yeah, what is unnatural is the 'perfect placement' of everything on this earth and in our solar system.
The distance of the sun from the earth is perfect for us. Any closer, and we all be living underground. The 'hardwiring' of human sex drive. Any more and we be fiends(Tiger Woods) any less, and our numbers would eventually wither and die. Just enough to keep our species alive and kicking for the next few hundred thousand years.
Enough water(For 95% of countries anyway) for us to live comfortably. The perfection of the seasons, our life cycles in general, our nervous system, our ability to love.
If this is random I'd give my life to comprehend a planned order to the universe.



in the words of douglas adams: "you are a very intelligent mud puddle"

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Wednesday, February 24, 2010 9:38 PM

FILLYGIRL

Operative: "Its worse than you know..." Mal: "It usually is."


"Harmless"

updated
"Mostly harmless"


My 2 cents,....if this (life, the Universe and everything) was an accident, it was a well organized accident.


Chaplain of the 76th Independant Battalion


Do not bother dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!


...it's worse than you know...Operative
...it usually is.....Mal

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Thursday, February 25, 2010 3:03 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Sargon was voiced by James Doohan.

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Thursday, February 25, 2010 3:22 AM

BORIS


I often think God gets bored a lot and has to figure out ways to keep himself stimulated. e.g. I firmly believe that the day he was wiring my brain he decided to be creative...acutely creative. It makes for some interesting times...and some not so interesting and downright irksome situations that I'm sure he finds amusing on a sick level. Maybe one of the reasons he may be messed up relates to the fact that many people on the planet insist on living in a state of intellectual de-volvement despite having the capacity to progress. Imagine what it would be like to spend eons creating people and trying to guide them in the right direction, only to have most of them prefer to take the ignorance trail...that would mess me up and ignite a bit of a cruel streak. Though being the creator and all he should get over it. sometimes I actually hear myself saying "suck it up God whoever you are"

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Thursday, February 25, 2010 6:51 AM

HKCAVALIER


Where ever you have centralized, absolute authority you have torture chambers. Kings have their dungeons and God has His hells. You can't not. Absolute power really does corrupt absolutely and if the Holy Bible isn't a corrupt document, I don't know the meaning of the word.

But the atheists really aren't much better off, what with their Cartesian Black Iron Prison of logic and feckless automita (that's you and me and all of us, Chris); their desperate obsession with how small and insignificant human life is as if that is the ultimate answer to all inquiry. Really kinda sets the stage for a fascist take-over, don'it? I mean, if life is really so deterministic and empty of conscious control, aren't the fascists right? Isn't all meaning subjective and all truth only opinion, the world populated by half-conscious sheeple? Well is it, or isn't it? Who are we, puny mortals that we are, to object in any case? And if anyone could really achieve the atheist nirvana of the truly logical, dispassionate, indifferent being of which their universe, in its infinite idiocy of chance, stands in need, why the heck would they even care?

Let this obsession with authority and agency, insignificance and determinism go and just see where that takes you. What if life is simply an Attractor? What if essence attracts consciousness? What if that primordial monad, without the benefit of our five official senses, nonetheless intuited that there was an "out there" to its "in here" and began looking? What if the five senses aren't our only way of accessing the world around us, but just our most organized? What if the "sixth sense" is really the first--the desire to be aware, to connect, to encompass?

And this desire to be aware, to be conscious, nascent in every material thing, is what created life and continues to drive every living thing to strive toward greater and greater flourishing?

What I'm basically saying is: Who needs the Great Asshole in the Sky, when you've got Love?

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Thursday, February 25, 2010 7:36 AM

STEGASAURUS


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Because it can be fun.
My take is that we exist. Why?
"Why does the sun come up? Or are the stars just pinholes in the curtain of darkness? Who knows?"



The answer to your questions is simple: To entertain and amuse me.

You see, my world revolves around me and bends to my will. Well, from my perspective anyway.

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Thursday, February 25, 2010 8:39 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Stegasaurus:
Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Because it can be fun.
My take is that we exist. Why?
"Why does the sun come up? Or are the stars just pinholes in the curtain of darkness? Who knows?"



The answer to your questions is simple: To entertain and amuse me.

You see, my world revolves around me and bends to my will. Well, from my perspective anyway.

Cool, but has no one caught the Highlander quote?


The laughing Chrisisall

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Thursday, February 25, 2010 8:42 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by HKCavalier:
this desire to be aware, to be conscious, nascent in every material thing, is what created life and continues to drive every living thing to strive toward greater and greater flourishing


I call it the Universal Battery, but a rose by any other name, eh'?

Thanks HK, I can now call this thread a "win."


The laughing Chrisisall

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Thursday, February 25, 2010 9:02 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by Stegasaurus:
Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Because it can be fun.
My take is that we exist. Why?
"Why does the sun come up? Or are the stars just pinholes in the curtain of darkness? Who knows?"



The answer to your questions is simple: To entertain and amuse me.

You see, my world revolves around me and bends to my will. Well, from my perspective anyway.

Cool, but has no one caught the Highlander quote?


The laughing Chrisisall



I did. Though it's "curtain of night".

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Thursday, February 25, 2010 9:20 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:


Though it's "curtain of night".



I'm so busted.


The laughing Chrisisall

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Thursday, February 25, 2010 9:45 AM

WHODIED


The idea that solar proximity, etc., infers 'intelligent design' appears fallacious. Given the seemingly endless variety of life possible just within our own petri dish of conditions, isn’t it more likely that life adapts to whatever circumstances are handy? Or is carbon based, oxygen breathing, 15°C the only option?

Jupiter is a vast ocean of various gases with a diameter 11 times that of Earth, will any life forms indigenous to it be necessarily recognizable? Especially to some handful of sensors and instruments on an orbiter deep in space…

Perhaps we should postpone choosing between ‘infinite coincidence’ and ‘grand design’ until we have more data—even if the Mars rovers fail to turn up anything. I’ve spent years in my back yard with a trowel and I’ve yet to find a dinosaur bone.




Now from heads to tales: The meaning of life is a brief illusory ignorance, much like Hawthorne’s willful suspension of disbelief. From there it’s school or theater: your choice, Hobson.

(ETA: Did I write Hawthorne? Oy. Coleridge...)



--WhoDied


_______________________

Yeah, we're mostly just giving each other significant glances and laughing incessantly.



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Thursday, February 25, 2010 9:48 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by WhoDied:
I’ve spent years in my back yard with a trowel and I’ve yet to find a dinosaur bone.



How deep have you gone?

ARGHHH, I'm hyper-focusing again...


The laughing Chrisisall

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Thursday, February 25, 2010 10:13 AM

WHODIED


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
How deep have you gone?



Er, I've dug (a) well into the Holocene...




--WhoDied


_______________________

Yeah, we're mostly just giving each other significant glances and laughing incessantly.



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Thursday, February 25, 2010 10:24 AM

CHRISISALL


"Yep. That'd do it allright."


The laughing Chrisisall

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Friday, February 26, 2010 5:20 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by fillygirl:


My 2 cents,....if this (life, the Universe and everything) was an accident, it was a well organized accident.

...it's worse than you know...Operative
...it usually is.....Mal



I have never really understood the " accident" premise. Is it an accident when it rains ? Is it an accident when the Earth quakes? Is it an accident when the sun sets on a beautiful sky?

The thinking is that there had to be set course, some planned out format or intent in the first place. That's nothing but a self reinforcing , specious view. ( not calling anyone HERE 'specious', mind you ) I just think that evoking the 'life is an accident' view is tainting the entire discussion from the onset.

Events happen because conditions are present which allow them to happen. The wind blows when barometric pressure changes from one area to another, forcing atmosphere to fill in the area of lower pressure from a higher pressure zone. There's no 'thinking' by the wind on this matter....it just happens. It's physics, and not a 'choice'.

But where choice DOES exist ?


" if nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do "





Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first.

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Friday, February 26, 2010 9:16 AM

MSA


Dude may i suggest you answer your door naked wearing a red cape and carrying a pitch fork... pretty sure the Jehovah's witness will go away

To love someone is to see a miracle invisible to others.
--Francois Mauriac
It's fuzzy-minded liberal thinking like that that gets you eaten.

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