TALK STORY

Hollywood MUST change to survive!

POSTED BY: CHRISISALL
UPDATED: Monday, September 27, 2010 10:21
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 3621
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Sunday, September 26, 2010 6:15 AM

CHRISISALL


The economy is very different now. Sure, we can still have our "Avatars" but either Hollywood pumps out severely less movies that have a guaranteed return (read: loud, stupid, funny), or they return to a pre-Jaws time where small movies made money BECAUSE they weren't blockbusters with blockbuster price tags!!!
Guys, you CAN make a quality movie for less than $200,000,000, remember????

How much did Browncoats: Redemption cost to make again?
Imagine if the had a measly quarter mill to work with...


The laughing Chrisisall



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Sunday, September 26, 2010 7:53 AM

WHOZIT


The year so far has been very disapointing, I've only seen one flick, the "A-Team". Nothing else has interested me, and the "A-Team wasn't even that good. "Hereafter" looks good but that seems to be the only flick that interests me at the moment. Hollywood's job is to provide entertainment for billions, for them to survive they have to make movies and TV shows people (consumers) want to see. Movie theater ticket sales are down, but it's not just because of the price.



Those arn't boobs, they're lies! - Stewie Griffin

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Sunday, September 26, 2010 8:02 AM

OPPYH


Hollywood seems to be obsessed with remakes, and chick flicks. Then I remember Studios are a business, and remakes attract both young audiences, and fans of the original(If they are lucky) making them profitable.



----------------------------------------------------------------

70's TV FOREVER

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Sunday, September 26, 2010 9:22 AM

CYBERSNARK


More to the point, remakes are safe. Studios/networks know exactly what they're getting (i.e., something that has already succeeded), so there's less perceived risk.

The problem isn't with writers not coming up with anything new, it's with the studio/network suits not buying anything new. Only people who can actually afford to be creative are people who've already found enough success to pay for their own stuff (Cameron, Jackson, Spielberg, etc).

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Sunday, September 26, 2010 9:35 AM

TWO

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
How much did Browncoats: Redemption cost to make again?
Imagine if the had a measly quarter mill to work with...

Not that it will help Browncoat Big Damn Fan Films, Inc to sell more DVDs of Browncoats: Redemption, but Hollywood might have much smaller revenues in ten years.
Quote:

Even with declining sales, DVDs still provided the 6 major studios with slightly over $16 billion in 2009, and constituted their main source of revenue. But what of Hollywood’s imminent future? South Korea demonstrates that a DVD market can be wiped out within a year or so of broadband improvements that make it possible for anyone to download a free movies in 15 minutes from the Internet. So quivering on the edge of this digital abyss, the studios remain paralyzed by their fear of losing their once almighty Wal-Mart accounts. - www.edwardjayepstein.com/Quivering.htm
The Big Six studios are Fox, Time Warner, Sony, NBC-Universal, Paramount, and Buena Vista/Disney. www.boxofficemojo.com/studio/ Occasionally there is a freakish film like Twilight Saga: Eclipse that puts the spotlight on a mid-size studio but most big revenue films are made by the Big Six.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

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Sunday, September 26, 2010 12:32 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Cybersnark:

The problem isn't with writers not coming up with anything new, it's with the studio/network suits not buying anything new.

Cybe, you may be too young to remember, but I, the old-time cinema historian will break it down for you & everyone else.

In the *OLD* days (pre-Jaws), I used to go to the movies every week. The movies changed that often. Most movies never saw a run past that time since the limited # of prints had to be distributed to the secondary & tertiary markets. Films were inexpensive, since no one expected anyone to see them more than once. Many films were free to have not-happy endings, if they wanted. Creativity was rampant.
Films like Vanishing Point, Clockwork Orange, Harold & Maude, Silent Running, A Reflection Of Fear, Four Flies On Gray Velvet, Last Tango In Paris, Legend Of Hell House and the like really couldn't be made today.

We need a return to smaller films IMO. A million to make, a million peeps see it, money effectively doubled. If 10 million or more see it, an instant goldmine.

This is what the suits have lost total sight of.
The want The Big Win every time out now.


The laughing Chrisisall


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Sunday, September 26, 2010 1:12 PM

ELVISCHRIST


Mr. IsAll, a question or two?

In a year, how many low-budget movies do you see?

How many "blockbusters"?

If you see more big movies then small, you're part of the problem. If more small then big, you're part of the solution.

The best TV isn't on network, and the best movies aren't from Hollywood.

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Sunday, September 26, 2010 1:18 PM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.


Chris, there are still many films like that being made today, they just don't get the exposure because they are produced and distributed by independent companies or come from foreign markets. It's the Big Six (or however many) that cling to the notion that every film has to be a blockbuster and spawn sequel after sequel. These are the same suits who think it is smart to remake a great, but very recent, vampire film called "Let the Right One In."

I don't care how good the American remake is, I will not pay money to see it, and probably won't bother even if I could see it free. What we need to do is stop paying money at the theaters, or buying DVDs, for films that are nothing more than slight entertainments designed to extract maximum dollars from our pockets. If we don't then we have no one else to blame.



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Sunday, September 26, 2010 1:32 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by ElvisChrist:
Mr. IsAll, a question or two?

In a year, how many low-budget movies do you see?

How many "blockbusters"?

I see anything that happens in space, or has good martial arts in it- preferably both (see: Serenity).

"Moon" was rented, then purchased new.
I rented "District 9"- didn't care for it, but appreciated the novelty & effort.
Bought "Ip Man" new from Hong Kong.
"Terminator: Salvation" I bought used.
Bought "Dollhouse: Season One" used.
Purchased "Max Headroom" new.
Purchased "CHUCK" season 3 new.
Purchased "Browncoats: Redemption" new.
EDITED TO ADD: Bought the old "Planet of the Apes" series used- receiving it soon. (WOOOO HOOO!)

That's my recent history, does it profile me one way or another (Honestly curious)?
Quote:




The best TV isn't on network

I disagree (CHUCK).


The laughing Chrisisall


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Sunday, September 26, 2010 1:40 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by ecgordon:


I don't care how good the American remake is


OUCH! Sorry to add that I rented the Gibson "Edge Of Darkness" when I could have maybe found the original at a local art-house DVD rental place.
Hook on that one was it was filmed right where I live, so it was cool to see the locations.
But SO Hollywood....


The laughing Chrisisall


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Sunday, September 26, 2010 1:44 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by ecgordon:
Chris, there are still many films like that being made today, they just don't get the exposure because they are produced and distributed by independent companies or come from foreign markets. It's the Big Six (or however many) that cling to the notion that every film has to be a blockbuster and spawn sequel after sequel. These are the same suits who think it is smart to remake a great, but very recent, vampire film called "Let the Right One In."

I don't care how good the American remake is, I will not pay money to see it, and probably won't bother even if I could see it free. What we need to do is stop paying money at the theaters, or buying DVDs, for films that are nothing more than slight entertainments designed to extract maximum dollars from our pockets. If we don't then we have no one else to blame.



Bingo! "Let Me In" no doubt has an enormous budget, but I can safely guarantee that it will be no better than the Swedish original.

Ditto "The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo". Fantastic movie, not much budget, not much exposure here - but of course it's being given the full Hollywood make-over, with more explosions and CGI. There was not a thing wrong with the original, except that most Americans can't seem to read (it's subtitled, which kills American interest).

The modern definition of "socialist" is anyone who's winning an argument against a tea-bagger.

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Sunday, September 26, 2010 1:50 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by Cybersnark:

The problem isn't with writers not coming up with anything new, it's with the studio/network suits not buying anything new.

Cybe, you may be too young to remember, but I, the old-time cinema historian will break it down for you & everyone else.

In the *OLD* days (pre-Jaws), I used to go to the movies every week. The movies changed that often. Most movies never saw a run past that time since the limited # of prints had to be distributed to the secondary & tertiary markets. Films were inexpensive, since no one expected anyone to see them more than once. Many films were free to have not-happy endings, if they wanted. Creativity was rampant.
Films like Vanishing Point, Clockwork Orange, Harold & Maude, Silent Running, A Reflection Of Fear, Four Flies On Gray Velvet, Last Tango In Paris, Legend Of Hell House and the like really couldn't be made today.

We need a return to smaller films IMO. A million to make, a million peeps see it, money effectively doubled. If 10 million or more see it, an instant goldmine.

This is what the suits have lost total sight of.
The want The Big Win every time out now.


The laughing Chrisisall




You have some good points, but you kinda miss some realities of the modern market, too.

The old way you describe is simply not possible anymore. The landscape has changed too much.

Oopy is correct - there is not a lack of new ideas, but new ideas are risky - and as much as people complain about the same ting over and over - most people rarely try out the new. The rehashes keep getting made, because that's whet people show up for far more consistantly.

As nice an idea is to say make a movie for a million - that's not very realistic. Fact is, movies are made for that ammount a lot - and they're the cheapie looking crap you see on the video shelf that you've never heard of, made by folks you've never heard of, and it never gets seen by anyone outside of a very small group. And rarely a million of them. And the fact is - even most of them cost quite a bit more than a million to make. And getting a million people to see it is really, really damned hard without a theatrical release - and to pull off a theatrical release that anyone shows up for requires a minimum of 10-20 million in advertising.

As nice an example as Browncoats: Redemption is, it is simply not of a caliber that anyone outside of a very small group is going to pay for or enjoy very much.

I'm involved with a movie right now that's crewing up, and it's a very small film. Just a couple locations, and the "stars" are D-list for the most part (our biggest name at this point is frikkin Helen Slater), and it's budget it close to a million.

It's a nice though,. and I agree the paradigm needs to change a bit, but the model you're dreaming of are simply not possible anymore.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Sunday, September 26, 2010 1:52 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


What's wrong with Helen Slater? She's done some decent acting.

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Sunday, September 26, 2010 1:53 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:


Bingo! "Let Me In" no doubt has an enormous budget, but I can safely guarantee that it will be no better than the Swedish original.



Must be nice to have them psychic powers. You may not have heard, the remake is actually getting great reviews, even from those who don't care for the original.

Quote:

Ditto "The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo". Fantastic movie, not much budget, not much exposure here - but of course it's being given the full Hollywood make-over, with more explosions and CGI.


Again with the superpowers....

It's also getting one of the best directors of the last couple decades. I'll wait and see what he turns out before making any unsupported assumptions, myself.

I'd also point out the fallacy in the "Americans are too dumb/lazy/whatever to read subtitles"argument. America is one of the only countries where it's even an option for mass releases. Almost every other country in the world dubs foreign films.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Sunday, September 26, 2010 1:56 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
What's wrong with Helen Slater? She's done some decent acting.



Nothing wrong with her, but she hasn't had a career in a couple decades. Just making the point that to do movies on the budgets Chris is talking about means that your biggest stars are going to be the lowest on the totem pole. Not even our Big Damned Heroes are at a level where they'd do a movie that cheap, and none of them are exactly A-list.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Sunday, September 26, 2010 2:20 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:

I agree the paradigm needs to change a bit, but the model you're dreaming of are simply not possible anymore.


Go ahead, crush my dreams; you won't be the first or last to *sob*.



The laughing Chrisisall


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Sunday, September 26, 2010 2:27 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
she hasn't had a career in a couple decades. Just making the point that to do movies on the budgets Chris is talking about means that your biggest stars are going to be the lowest on the totem pole.

The stars of the future may be happy with makin' a few bits above minimum wage *plus* is what I'm aiming at.
Heck, I'd star in a movie for what I'm makin' now.
Wouldn't YOU???

The whole "rich & famous" thing will shortly be a thing of the film-making past, if my crystal ball is accurate... just another job, on a similar pay scale to, oh, say firemen or police.



The laughing Chrisisall


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Sunday, September 26, 2010 2:37 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
to pull off a theatrical release that anyone shows up for requires a minimum of 10-20 million in advertising.


Niche viral internet marketing.
Provide you past likes or general fan criteria, and boom- your selections appear. Then you pay your $2 and download you choice to disk. You then shoot out you review, and get a credit towards your next buy, if it's rated good by enough viewers.

I guess I am very much not-lacking in imagination, eh?


The laughing Chrisisall


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Sunday, September 26, 2010 2:48 PM

CHRISISALL


THAT'S IT!!!
I'VE HAD IT!!!!
Imma make a film that will cost me one grand (okay, maybe five) personally, that will rock Hollywood AND all you peeps!!!

It'll be about- oops. I almost spilled it.
Nope.
Y'all have to wait.

And I'll take bids on the toy & model rights.

And very little CGI will be employed.


You wait! You'll see!

[Hidden Title], due out Summer 2013, written, produced & directed by Chrisisall. PG-13


The Newly determined Chrisisall


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Sunday, September 26, 2010 3:22 PM

TWO

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Chrisisall, that's a bold move from someone living on the Rim. You are fine example for us all. Think of those millions of dollars that will be yours when you release the movie in 2013!

Changing subjects, slightly, to how to distribute chrisisall's movie: Big studios want to offer new films on video-on-demand only 45 days after films open in theaters. The same tech that big studios use for v-o-d could also give a little movie like chrisisall's version of Browncoats: Re-Re-Redemption 3 the equivalent of a nationwide release at the multiplex cinema. Quoting from www.nytimes.com/2010/09/26/business/26steal.html
Quote:

But the real wrath will come from theater owners, who have made it clear that releasing a movie early on video-on-demand services — thus cutting into their window — would be the equivalent of declaring war. Over the summer, the National Association of Theater Owners took out full-page ads in Variety and The Hollywood Reporter making its opposition clear.

The worry for theaters, of course, is that people will be more reluctant to buy movie tickets, at an average cost of almost $8, if they know they can catch the same film just a few weeks later in their living rooms, and for less money than it costs to haul the whole family to the multiplex. . . .

SO which studio is going to go first, and when? All six of the major studios declined to comment for this article. But multiple movie executives with deep knowledge of the landscape say the first quarter of next year is the target, in part because big Christmas releases . . .



The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

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Sunday, September 26, 2010 3:28 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by two:
chrisisall's version of Browncoats: Re-Re-Redemption 3

Sorry, that venue is covered, I believe, and in entirely capable hands.
Mine will be original, unique, and totally & completely appreciated after my death.


The laughing Chrisisall


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Sunday, September 26, 2010 4:41 PM

GWEK


I think the dilemma that the movie industry is facing is far more complex than "Hollywood is unoriginal and wants to make blockbusters." There are quite a few factors, and many of them are beyond the control of those who make the films.

Without even addressing the state of the economy, let's look at ticket prices. They've risen dramatically in recent years--and look like they'll continue to rise.

Pair that with the ease of rental and the speed at which movies are available for rent and you've got a losing propsition for theatrical profits. For the cost of one visit to the theater for my wife and me (including snacks), I can get a month's worth of rentals at Netflix. Since I watch 4-6 movies a week, that's about 20+ for the price of 1.

Movie releases also have to contend with social networking. I was reading an article earlier this week that briefly discussed the impact, noting that ticket sales are increasingly impacted by things like people texting their freinds as soon as they get out of the theater (if not FROM the theater), and that the West Coast BO take can be affected by reviewed posted on facebook and in blogs by East Coast viewers.

Addressing originality: It's not necessarily that the movie business has grown unoriginal, so much as that the movie business is a BUSINESS. Although the studios don't expect every movie to be a blockbuster, they HOPE each will be, or at least will turn a profit.

Hollywood goes in trends, largely based on what it, as a collective industry, thinks is likely to pry heard-gotten bucks from the folk who have the most disposable income at any given time. When STAR WARS was popular, for example, there was a run on sci fi (which is happening again, in the wake of AVATAR). When the economy tanks, people want fantasy, so sci fi, comedy, and over-the-top action rise. When prosperity reigns, so does dark and gritty.

(As an aside, consider FIREFLY: in 2002, the show failed despite its quality because the post-9/11 American viewing audience wanted patriotic, straightforward, possibly even vengeful fiction. They wanted broad fantasy. Top grossing films in 2002? Spider-Man, LotR2, Star Wars: Episode II, Harry Potter... It's not a big surprise that FIREFLY failed. Now, consider the state of America today. Despite the lack of general prosperity, a darker, cynical show like FIREFLY would probably do quite well...)

Anyway, back to originality...

Hollywood has always relied on remakes, sequels, and stories adapted from other properties because they have a built-in audience. In recent years, this has, admittedly, become a crutch for the industry, but the pendulum is starting to swing the other way, thanks in large part to the failure of many remakes, sequels, and adaptations (paired with an increased number of
"surprise" successes for original pieces).

When talking about the unoriginality of Hollywood, by the way, cut the writers a break. They are very rarely the ones at fault. It's exceedingly rare for a script to survive contact with a director, story development, producers, and actors intact. Often, the finished product bares only superficial resemblence to the product that the screenwriter was paid for.

(A fairly extreme example: The screenplay KANSAS tells the story of an older man who may or many not be a spy who runs into a teenaged boy who has run away from home on a lonely stretch of road in Kansas. The two go on an adventure together that allows each to learn from the other, and which helps both deal with their issues.

That script was eventually made as the Cruise/Diaz vehicle KNIGHT & DAY.)

It is often said screenwriting is the least respected job in the movie industry.

Now, let's throw in another factor: TV. Unlike the movie industry, where even the most successful screenwriters are likely to watch their works consistently gutted (without becoming screenwriter-directors, anyway), in the TV industry, writers command a fair amount of respect... and between the networks, cable, and other options, there are many solid opportunities. So, arguably, some of the best writers AREN'T writing for the movies any more.

There are probably other things I'm not thinking of, but I've already prattled on long enough that I don't expect anyone to make it to the end of this post. :)






www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."

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Sunday, September 26, 2010 4:53 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by GWEK:

There are probably other things I'm not thinking of, but I've already prattled on long enough that I don't expect anyone to make it to the end of this post. :)


this was a GREAT post, Gwek!!!!
Please, prattle on as you like!


The laughing Chrisisall


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Monday, September 27, 2010 6:08 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
to pull off a theatrical release that anyone shows up for requires a minimum of 10-20 million in advertising.


Niche viral internet marketing.
Provide you past likes or general fan criteria, and boom- your selections appear. Then you pay your $2 and download you choice to disk. You then shoot out you review, and get a credit towards your next buy, if it's rated good by enough viewers.

I guess I am very much not-lacking in imagination, eh?


The laughing Chrisisall




You're right. It's just that simple...... but NO ONE ELSE has thought of it yet..... Yep, that must be it, nothing more to it.....





"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Monday, September 27, 2010 8:37 AM

TWO

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Mine will be original, unique, and totally & completely appreciated after my death.


The laughing Chrisisall

There is the danger of making the next I'm Still Here, which is a very 'misunderstood' movie. www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=main&id=imstillhere.htm
http://blogs.suntimes.com/ebert/2010/09/casey_affleck_levels_about_im.
html


Technology may come to the rescue of small movie makers:
Buffy and Firefly fans will appreciate the impetus behind the development of Novacut. "We're developing [this] video editor because there's no reason for Joss Whedon to ever have a show canceled... We want to see an explosion of financially viable independent TV shows distributed directly to fans over the Internet, funded through direct fan support, licensed under the Creative Commons. We love The Guild and think Felicia Day has blazed a trail others can now follow. If The Guild is successful with only a million fans, shouldn't there be thousands of shows like it ? - www.whedon.info/Novacut-a-new-open-source-video.html

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

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Monday, September 27, 2010 8:45 AM

STORYMARK


Maybe Chrisisall can make the next The Room? It would fit his plan.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Monday, September 27, 2010 10:21 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:



Yep, that must be it, nothing more to it.....






Cheeky monkey.


The laughing Chrisisall


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Thu, August 10, 2023 13:36 - 5 posts

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