BLUE SUN ROOM

Big Damn Scribblers Question: Do you fudge the timeline? And what about alternate timelines?

POSTED BY: KAYLEEGIRL
UPDATED: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 09:12
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Saturday, March 17, 2007 1:19 PM

KAYLEEGIRL


We all agree that there weren't enough episodes of Firefly to satisfy, which is why we're writing them on our own. My question to you is...

How many of you fudge a bit on the actual timeline in the settings of your fanfic? How many stick to the the actual episode-to-BDM time frames? And the big question, does it really matter? (playin' devil's advocate, here, fellow BDSs)

For example: I tried my best to work within the actual timeframe for my first fanfic, but I just had to have a Christmas celebration so, bye-bye actual months that should be between "Objects in Space" and the BDM and hello, Christmas time! (Although...I could argue that people who "need a little Christmas now" don't necessarily have to celebrate in December...)



If I'm gonna dream, I'm gonna dream big.

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Saturday, March 17, 2007 2:09 PM

ALLIETHORN7


Try as night... ya can't always stick to the timeline. I tried... failed... miserably, I might add.
So, in the end... I guess (read, HOPE ferverently) that one can sacrifice the timeline if it makes for a better story. At least, that's what I think... I could be wrong.
Just wantin' to put in my own 2 cents.

-Danny

I wanna take the Bullet,
The one aimed straight for your Heart;
I wanna meet the wolves halfway,
And let them Tear me APART,
But that's not the way they do it here...

THRICE RULES!!!!!!!!!

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Sunday, March 18, 2007 6:28 AM

KAYLEEGIRL


Thanks for weighing in, Alliehorn7. That's what I've been thinking but I wanted to know what others' thoughts were on the matter.

Is anyone out there doing alternate timelines of Firefly? You know, like writing an alternte BDM to keep Wash and Book alive? Or alternate Firefly, like...what if Kaylee didn't become the ship's mechanic? What if Wash and Zoe didn't marry? What if Simon had been raised in the government academy and River had to rescue him?





If I'm gonna dream, I'm gonna dream big.

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Sunday, March 18, 2007 9:52 AM

SPACEANJL


Going to answer the timeline question. Alt-fic is quite common. I just can't get my head round it.



I've only written post-BDM fic, so the timeline hasn't been an issue. But it is possible to work out where to put events. The dialogue gives a few pointers, and they obviously still use the same months and methods of measurement.

Christmas would have fallen sometime mid- to late series, since OMR was late October.

Time relating to travel between planets, though - that's an ever-changing issue, since everything has a varying orbit. Sometimes a journey could take a few weeks, sometimes a lot less, depending on the relative positions. That can mess with things nicely. My view is that there is a central time (probably Londinium) and every planet takes it's cue from there.

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Sunday, March 18, 2007 10:16 AM

NBZ


Not a part of the big damn scribblers, but with writing I would say it is writers perrogative as there are bits of timeline we are not sure of.

Christmas would probably coincide with the Ariel episode.

I do however have an issue with christmas fic, and I am probably gonna get slaughtered for it. The devil is in the details.

Simon and River are probably buddhist. Their parents are. So is Inara.

Having fic say otherwise can throw me right out of a story even if it is lighthearted like most xmas ones are.

/Hides...

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Sunday, March 18, 2007 10:26 AM

SPACEANJL


Where does it say the Tams are Buddhist? What did I miss?

Mind you, Joss did say that the main religion on Sihnon and Londinium was Buddhism. I would guess the same might hold true for Osiris, as it's the next rank of Central planets.

Still, it's Mal's ship and Mal is big on Christmas. (OoG) Also...'Ariel', River says 'they took Christmas away...' so I think the Tams may have celebrated it. And I don't think anyone would have an option if Kaylee realised it was an excuse for food and presents and mistletoe.

SpaceAnJL. Research obsessive.

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Sunday, March 18, 2007 11:10 AM

NBZ


In Safe, look at the backdrops for the flashback scenes. It is not explicitly stated, but hinted at with the statues etc.

There is a chance they may have celebrated christmas especially if it continues to go down the road to become a mass market event with no link to religion.

There is even the question of wether Kaylee would celebrate it, but this is too serious an analysis for xmas fioc, and i would not post this around that time.

There are normally too many assumptions in christmas fic for my liking, but there are writers who want to write it and readers who want to read it.

I do not get your OoG reference.

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Sunday, March 18, 2007 11:13 AM

SPACEANJL


Neither do I. I meant Our Mrs Reynolds.

Mal wakes up - "Is it Christmas?"

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Sunday, March 18, 2007 11:28 AM

NBZ


Quote:

Originally posted by SpaceAnJL:
Neither do I. I meant Our Mrs Reynolds.

Mal wakes up - "Is it Christmas?"





But this does help illustrate a point. There is alot of christmas fic out there where he is anti-christmas. (Which he may well be - I just don't know...and have not seen a reason I actually buy)

Back to the topic of timelines, there aer places where a person has to take liberties. Especially the time betwen OiS and the BDM.

How long was it?

Then there are the periods of time between the Pilot and the train Job, and between other episodes.

The time between The Train Job (Been here 8 months) and Bushwacked (In
a few weeks it will be a year.) can be calculated depending no how literally Inara's words are taken.

That time period could be anything from 3 and a half months (she has been there exactly 8 months in the first instance and has to weeks to make it a year in the second...) to less than two (been there just under nine months, and in 7 weeks it would be a year).

To get the BDM to take place 8 months from Serenity, the Pilot, such things have to be estimated at the lower level. Otherwise the BDM is between a year and 18 months out. Gotta give Inara time to teach the girls 2 years worth of stuff...(even if Sheydra was massively exaggerating in the deleted scenes - which she probably was.)

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Sunday, March 18, 2007 12:11 PM

ALLIETHORN7


Granted, there's a pretty damn good chanc that the Tams are Buddhist. Stand to reason, though, that Christmas survived- Book's a Chritian, Mal was a Christian, and Don't forget that it's the Anglo-Sino Alliance; one does not simply discard the worlds largest Religion easily.
Plus, in Five Hundred and some odd years time, Religion will have undoubtedly changed. Five hundred years back, we were burning witches at the stake and basicaly kowtowing to the Popes'. Religion is ever changing to accomadate an ever changing populace; it contorts, wthers, splinters; parts of it die out, others are born anew. It really isn't so inconcievable that some parts of Buddhism and Christianity merged together, creating some place where Christmas and Buddhst practices intertwine.
Christ is not so easily sworn off- two billion followers, and more each day. And, while technicaly atheist, Buddism is largely practiced in China- and add to that many other Asian countrys- India, Japan, Korea- albiet with less of a population, but, STILL!!!
After all; Buddha never said that there were as many Gods and Godesses as Buddhsts today worship- they were added on after he died!
So- Christmas out in the Black? Probable, just not so much on Serenity- "You're welcomed on my ship, Shepard. God ain't."

-Danny

I wanna take the Bullet,
The one aimed straight for your Heart;
I wanna meet the wolves halfway,
And let them Tear me APART,
But that's not the way they do it here...

THRICE RULES!!!!!!!!!

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Sunday, March 18, 2007 1:15 PM

MYCOUSINISAREAVER


Just my two cents. I would say as long as the difference isnt so obvious like you try to pretend six years happens in six months, then it should be up to the writers discretion to alter it a tad for the purpose of their story.

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Sunday, March 18, 2007 2:13 PM

KAYLEEGIRL


Quote:

Originally posted by nbz:
Christmas would probably coincide with the Ariel episode.

I do however have an issue with christmas fic, and I am probably gonna get slaughtered for it. The devil is in the details.

Simon and River are probably buddhist. Their parents are. So is Inara.

Having fic say otherwise can throw me right out of a story even if it is lighthearted like most xmas ones are.



Next thread I start will have to be one on the religions of the FF verse. That said...

I didn't really say who believes in what in my story -- didn't need to really. The basic idea was just that Kaylee wanted to cheer up Mal and everyone else after Inara left. (Even though he's lost his faith in religion, it certainly doesn't mean he wouldn't take comfort in the nostalgia of a holiday he'd celebrated when young.)

I was also thinking (as I have done for years) that people have needed some kind of celebration of light and love during the dark season, be it winter or just a long dark teatime of the soul spent out in the black. One of the attractions of the Serenity crew is that while they may be of different backgrounds and beliefs, they all reach out to comfort and protect each other except for, well, Jayne...








If I'm gonna dream, I'm gonna dream big.

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Sunday, March 18, 2007 2:17 PM

GWEK


With respect to the timeline, I think there's definitely a little room for fudging. Joss and Co. don't strictly adhere to a timeline, so why should we?

www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."

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Sunday, March 18, 2007 2:22 PM

NBZ


Your story was not the aim of my rant. :)

I did read yours and I liked most of it, if I remember correctly.

If there is a celebration no doubt they will all participate. In Serenity, the pilot episode, when Book says grace, all of them (except Mal) bow their heads.

Bringing this back to the topic at hand, I think putting the stories into the timeline can make them better - but not always. It depends on what the author wants to show.

Just after Ariel - Mal is disapointed (only Jayne , River and the readers know why). The year after - they have dead crewmembers since last year... annual celebrations make you think of what has happened over the past year, and that can lead to some good stories.

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Monday, March 19, 2007 1:31 AM

JAMESTHEDARK


I've never had a problem with the timeline, because the stories I write happen long after the series (I'm currently four years after), and on a different ship. What I remind myself on occasion, though, is that the season can be whatever I want it to be, because each planet in the solar system can be at a different season at the same time. While it's August and Summer on Londinum, it might be cold as hell and winter on Beaumonde.

--------------
I ain't lookin' for help from on high. That's a damn long wait for a train don't come.

98% of teens have smoked pot, if you are one of the 2% that haven't, copy this into your signature.

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Monday, March 19, 2007 5:24 AM

LEIASKY


Quote:

Originally posted by KayleeGirl:
Is anyone out there doing alternate timelines of Firefly? You know, like writing an alternte BDM to keep Wash and Book alive? Or alternate Firefly, like...what if Kaylee didn't become the ship's mechanic? What if Wash and Zoe didn't marry? What if Simon had been raised in the government academy and River had to rescue him?



I don't tend to like them at all. What made the series special, to me, was the dynamic of where everyone was at the time of the series start. And how they dealt with those issues.

I don't like AU's very much at all. They almost always have a take on the characterization that I never in a million years believe. AU's, I've noticed, are typically written to satisfy an authors pairing choice - which is rarely one of the few we could consider 'cannon'.

"A government is a body of people usually notably ungoverned."

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Tuesday, March 20, 2007 9:16 AM

STEAMER


Well, here's how I see it.

'Our Mrs. Reynolds' took place some time in mid-late October 2517. 'Trash' was, according to Mal, "'bout half a year" after that, figure maybe March or April of 2518, with the series ending in April or May. So if the BDM takes place eight months after the pilot episode, that might be enough time for Book to get settled on Haven, but not near enough for Inara to become so well established at the training house.

Now here's another little nugget of confusion.

A while back, I saw an image created for an RPG, showing River's Academy data file. It says her date of birth is December 19, 2500. The script for the pilot says she's 17 at the time, but that being the case, her birthday comes and goes well before the BDM and yet she's still 17 at that point. There's another field on that file saying it was created for the Operative's perusal on June 5, 2518. It just barely fits the 8-month timeline, but once again, that doesn't jive with the half-year figure given in 'Trash'. ('Course, I suppose we could say that Mal's brief death in 'War Stories' played merry-hob with his perception of time....)

All this considered, I think we have to take the timeline with a good-sized barrel of salt (and yes, I realise we have to do the same with that data file since it's just an RPG source ). My conjecture is that the BDM actually takes place later in 2518. Since that works well for one of the fics I'm working on, yeah, I take the occasional liberty with the timeline. As far as AUs go, I'm a canon kinda guy. The only time I'll write an AU is when the Powers That Be - or professional authors with the approval thereof - take my favourite characters and shamelessly assassinate them *coughStarWarscoughcough*. (It's also one of my many abhorrences of River/Jayne....)



Gorram shiny
Ruttin' verse
Funny words
And Chinese curse
FIREFLY

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Tuesday, March 20, 2007 9:42 AM

SPACEANJL


What counts as AU in your eyes?

I'm writing a fic that is post-BDM, and starts off canon in pairing. But because it is post-BDM, the characters have to move on in their lives. So if Jayne then meets someone, does this make it AU?


Incidentally - Rayne

If we are confined only to the series and BDM for our storylines, it doesn't allow for a lot of character development.

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Tuesday, March 20, 2007 9:56 AM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by Steamer:
So if the BDM takes place eight months after the pilot episode, that might be enough time for Book to get settled on Haven, but not near enough for Inara to become so well established at the training house.

This has been discussed in other threads... I don't see the problem with this part. Inara is already well established in the Guild - could have been Priestess in a House on Sihnon, which seems like it'd be no small feat. She'd be welcome and immediately respected as a teacher in any House, I say.

And the Book thing on Haven - he also might have known these people beforehand, and there was likely a big damn rescue/adventure the crew got into there, which would account for how friendly the crew is with those folks in a short time.


Quote:

A while back, I saw an image created for an RPG, showing River's Academy data file. It says her date of birth is December 19, 2500. The script for the pilot says she's 17 at the time, but that being the case, her birthday comes and goes well before the BDM and yet she's still 17 at that point.
Thank you fro bringing this up! This one has bothered me, especially as her age is needed for my fic. I have her turning 18 a few months after OiS, (I ignore the movie in my ficverse) and I don't see how it could be later than that! No way could she be 17 in the pilot and still 17 in the movie. Major fudging there!


Quote:

All this considered, I think we have to take the timeline with a good-sized barrel of salt
I'm totally with you on this. There is no solid, believable canon timeline to start with. A few fans have worked hard to put all the clues together, but it's not possible.

So it's hard to define what "fudging" is. I just do as I wish.



-----------------------------------------------
I'm the president. I don't need to listen.

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Tuesday, March 20, 2007 10:00 AM

KAYLEELOVE


I thought I read somewhere that Simon is typically a Jewish name...

Anyway, it would be fun to have a holiday on Serenity but wouldn't it be nice if Christmas happened right before Inara got off? I mean for sure Kaylee would find some mistletoe to put up and maybe just maybe Mal and Inara could be caught under it... Rest of the crew join in to haggle them into it, a nice little fight between them before they dare eachother into it, tee hee hee and couldn't just see Jayne sneaking up behind Mal to get in line next.

You know I think Jayne would be one of the most excited about Christmas.

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Tuesday, March 20, 2007 10:12 AM

SPACEANJL


Quote:

Originally posted by mal4prez:
Quote:


And the Book thing on Haven - he also might have known these people beforehand, and there was likely a big damn rescue/adventure the crew got into there, which would account for how friendly the crew is with those folks in a short time.



In the novel, there is mention of the fact that Mal and the crew knew about Haven, because a number of folk there are ex-Browncoats. They took a musician from New Melbourne there, on the run from the mob, which was when Book decided to get off. Nobody's written this episode yet, (that I know of) and it would fit as a canon piece.

Kayleelove - Jayne at Christmas? Actually, I see him as particularly nasty and gruff at that time, because he misses home and won't admit it. Unless he gets a parcel from his Ma.

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Tuesday, March 20, 2007 11:43 AM

LEIASKY


>What counts as AU in your eyes?

I'm going to guess that this is addressed to me?

>I'm writing a fic that is post-BDM, and starts off canon in pairing. But because it is post-BDM, the characters have to move on in their lives. So if Jayne then meets someone, does this make it AU?

Jayne wasn't 'with' anyone in the series or movie (unless you count his whores) so I wouldn't consider him meeting someone as AU. Jumping Kaylee with inadequate explanation of what happened with her and Simon (and subsequently taking them so far out of character as to be believable) I would consider AU.

Someone else probably has another opinion.


>Incidentally - Rayne

Heh. I feel the same way about Jayne/Kaylee. River/Jayne isn't really that far off for me either. But, I really prefer cannon pairings and skip everything else.

>If we are confined only to the series and BDM for our storylines, it doesn't allow for a lot of character development.

Well, yes, but we do have to use as a base (if you even care about such things. . . and some don't) how the characters are portrayed in the series and film and 'develop' them in a believable way. Some people aren't too picky about characterization. Some are.



"A government is a body of people usually notably ungoverned."

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Tuesday, March 20, 2007 3:03 PM

STINKINGROSE


Post BDM, therefore avoiding the whole problem.
When I started writing, the established story lines of the series and movie just felt sacrosanct. I refuse to screw around with them... for now.

I would hesitate to use anything other than scripts or official word from the creators/actors as canon. Go directly to the source and remember they were making it up as they went along.
A year being more than 365 days in one spot and then using earth standard to measure age at the same time is not out of the question.. though it makes small clinky noises emanate from my ears.

Rayne? EEEwwww. I have gotten as close to that one as I am willing to go.
I prefer porn with a plot, thanks. Just introduce a new character into the mix and have done with it. It's what the Writers would have done, after all. They are not in a hermetically sealed environment. Remember Tracy? How's about Nandi?

Maybe set ten years post BDM with a WHOLE LOT of personal growth on both parts, but not as things sat at the end of the series or movie.

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Tuesday, March 20, 2007 4:37 PM

GREENFAERIE


Quote:

Originally posted by JamesTheDark:
While it's August and Summer on Londinum, it might be cold as hell and winter on Beaumonde.



Just a little nitpick here, but while it's summer on Londinum, it's winter on Londinum too... the other side of the world (northern vs. southern hemisphere) is always in the opposite season. Like when it's winter in North America, it's summer in South America. At least this holds for planets with a tilted axis and where the sun is near enough to make a difference in the seasons, which I would think is most of 'em.


http://home.nycap.rr.com/wydraz/firefly

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Wednesday, March 21, 2007 6:13 AM

STEAMER


Quote:

Originally posted by stinkingrose:
Rayne? EEEwwww. I have gotten as close to that one as I am willing to go.
I prefer porn with a plot, thanks. Just introduce a new character into the mix and have done with it. It's what the Writers would have done, after all. They are not in a hermetically sealed environment. Remember Tracy? How's about Nandi?



Amen to that!

Personally, I prefer no porn at all - at least not right away. Once again, I'm a canon kinda guy - which means I'm all for canon pairings amongst the crew (that is M/I, W/Z and K/S). But since we're talking timeline here rather than pairings, I'll just say that I'm pecking away at a River/OC story set a month post-BDM - which in my opinion is the most appropriate period for any Jayne/OC or River/OC business. (Although Jayne is probably the kinda guy who would do a one-night stand before his lover found out about his crush on Vera.)

SpaceAnjl, this brings me to answer your question: Nope, don't think you'd have a problem with the storyline you have in mind. If it's post-BDM, the sky's the limit - unless a miracle happens and a BiggerDM comes out!!! (Hey, it happened with Star Trek....)



Wash and Zoe
Kaylee, Simon
Mal, Inara
Love Boat's climbin'
FIREFLY

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Wednesday, March 21, 2007 6:17 AM

SPACEANJL


Er, Steamer, I STARTED that storyline about 90,000 words or so back. It's been in the BSR near a year...


And don't let StinkingRose fool ya. She writes good stuff. Any porn is germane to the plot

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Wednesday, March 21, 2007 6:30 AM

STEAMER


=O Sheesh, talk about your surging epics....

Generally speaking, I'm not a big porn fan. I'm a lot bigger on fluff - rather see how the characters interact ere the sheets open up. But that's another topic (which I hope we'll discuss sooner or later).



FOX watch out,
Warns Uncle Joss:
There's some Rivers
You shouldn't cross.
FIREFLY

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Wednesday, March 21, 2007 6:42 AM

SPACEANJL


Quote:

Originally posted by Steamer:
=O Sheesh, talk about your surging epics....





I'm trying to single-handedly write the second series, is all. And there's very little porn in it. (Honest - just don't read 'Good Clean Fun') Character development takes more than a few hundred words if you want to make it meaningful. It's just...I was writing Jayne. Everyone ELSE is quite happy just talking or flirting or angsting or exchanging soppy looks. With the big guy, porn just happens. But he did cook her dinner first.






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Wednesday, March 21, 2007 8:59 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by Alliethorn7:
Granted, there's a pretty damn good chanc that the Tams are Buddhist. Stand to reason, though, that Christmas survived-



According to one of my favorite authors, Spider Robinson, Buddhism and Christianity are not incompatible, at least from a Buddhist standpoint.
He should know, his wife is a Buddhist monk. According to him, Buddha never claimed to be God-- the goal of Buddhism is to become an " enlightened" man. ( Pardon, me, person. Oink!) It deals in the internal, the personal. Enlightenment could lead one to believe in Christ, and/or some denomination of Christianity as an external truth.

Not sure if that would work from a Christian POV, with its " No one comes to the Father but thru me." sorta doctrines.

So maybe they're Buddhists first, who follow some Christian practices.

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Wednesday, March 21, 2007 9:12 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


And on another point, most of my stuff is set before the BDM; I LIKE Wash and Book, both of 'em. Some of it is set during the War. The rest are set somewhere between the episodes-- the cameras weren't there the days my stories happened. Sometimes , I'll tie a story to an episode-- one piece started out to be the day Badger gave the crew the job in the pilot. But not always.

My one Christmas piece is set somewhere post-BDM: Wash's death is its motivation.


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