FIREFLY UNIVERSE

Why is it called the 'Anglo-Sino' alliance and not 'American-Sino' Alliance?

POSTED BY: MARGINALREVOLUTION
UPDATED: Sunday, May 7, 2006 04:54
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Friday, May 5, 2006 12:50 AM

MARGINALREVOLUTION


Hi, I'm new to Firefly.... so I have a quick question. If the United States was the other superpower, why is their capital planet called "Londonium" and why is the alliance referred to as the "Anglo-Sino" alliance? Shouldn't their planet be called something like "New Washington" and the alliance be called "American-Sino" alliance?


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Friday, May 5, 2006 12:51 AM

SPOOTY


Because American's speak English

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Friday, May 5, 2006 12:59 AM

MARGINALREVOLUTION


Quote:

Originally posted by Spooty:
Because American's speak English




No that still dosn't make any sense. "Sino" is essentially another way of saying "Chinese" the Chinese don't speak "Chinese" they speak Mandarin/Cantonese/etc.

"Anlgo" refers to a nation, such as the "Anglo-Nippon alliance" was a compact between England and Japan. It does not refer to the language....

Ontop of which, it still dosn't make sense why the capital planet would be anmed "Londonium," a British City....

Also another point that should be made, many people reffered to the US/British relationship as the "Anglo-American" alliance.... if the United States was the actaul superpower then it should be American-Sino, unless for osme reason, the English are able to put significent political pressure on the United States..... which dosn't make sense to me.

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Friday, May 5, 2006 1:14 AM

SPOOTY


Interesting points.

As far as I gathered I assumed that Mandarin was the dominant form of Chinese in the Firefly 'Verse and that led me to believe that it was basically 'dumbing things down' or making the Firefly 'Verse easier to understand. Sort of just rounding off the edges for Prevailent East meets Prevailent West. I dunno.

When the Alliance was formed both sides had to settle their differences and maybe it was a decision to just be a culmination of both of the major tongues spoken.

Maybe you best ask Joss :)

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Friday, May 5, 2006 1:33 AM

GEEKUSA


Because America took over England, effectively becoming the American Empire in an interesting irony. Joss explained as much in the Visual Companion...at least I think it's the Visual Companion. That's pretty much why it's the Anglo-Sino Alliance and why Londinium is the other Core world to Sihnon. America chose to incorporate England's historical weight into their new empire.

"Knew it...probably...saw them cops...and...turned...tail..."

"Can't...sentence...properly."

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Friday, May 5, 2006 1:34 AM

MARAZ


Anglo could also be used to mean all the English speaking nations (ie Anglo-sphere) so perhaps the alliance involved Britian, Canada, Australia etc. to some extent. Perhaps the English speaking countries formed closer political ties. I mean if there were only two super powers that became all dominant that would suggest that other countries became absorbed into their political spheres of influence.

Perhaps even the concept of the nation state becomes obsolete, rather than the United States and China becoming super-powers it is English/American and Chinese culture that become super-powers. With globalisation etc. the idea of nation states could believably become much less important.

EDIT: GEEKUSA's answer basically makes mine redundant, :P oh well.

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Friday, May 5, 2006 1:46 AM

MARGINALREVOLUTION


Ok thanks for the explanations.

I really hope the show gets expanded so we can see all these kool planets. I'd really like to see how Londonium and Sinhon actaully look like.

Aother point of continuity i'd like to ask. If the Alliance had the ability to terraform a planet, certainly they would have done so with Earth. therefore, the debate that seems to exist on whether or not the planet physically still exsists must be moot o this point. If it does physically exist, it would have been utilized by now. the fact that it's become "myth" must indicate the fact it was somehow "destroyed." Although I don't know what sort of tehcnology the Alliance could possess to kill a planet (seeing htey don't even have FTL travel).

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Friday, May 5, 2006 3:12 AM

11THHOUR


Quote:

Originally posted by MarginalRevolution:
If it does physically exist, it would have been utilized by now. the fact that it's become "myth" must indicate the fact it was somehow "destroyed." Although I don't know what sort of tehcnology the Alliance could possess to kill a planet (seeing htey don't even have FTL travel).



On the broadcast episodes of Firefly the introduction explains that Earth "got used up". In Serenity the teacher explained that Earth could no longer support the population because the numbers "had become so many".

In both instances Earth has not been destroyed. Rather the pressure of the human population exhausted the natural resources.

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Friday, May 5, 2006 4:23 AM

RHODRI


Quote:

Originally posted by MarginalRevolution:
Hi, I'm new to Firefly.... so I have a quick question. If the United States was the other superpower, why is their capital planet called "Londonium" and why is the alliance referred to as the "Anglo-Sino" alliance? Shouldn't their planet be called something like "New Washington" and the alliance be called "American-Sino" alliance?




It uses less letters

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Friday, May 5, 2006 6:09 AM

EVILDINOSAUR


prolly cuz anglo-sino sounds better than american-sino

"Haha, mine is an evil laugh."

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Friday, May 5, 2006 6:11 AM

EVILDINOSAUR


Quote:

Aother point of continuity i'd like to ask. If the Alliance had the ability to terraform a planet, certainly they would have done so with Earth. therefore, the debate that seems to exist on whether or not the planet physically still exsists must be moot o this point. If it does physically exist, it would have been utilized by now. the fact that it's become "myth" must indicate the fact it was somehow "destroyed." Although I don't know what sort of tehcnology the Alliance could possess to kill a planet (seeing htey don't even have FTL travel).


Terraforming just makes a planet liveable, but if there's no resources there, living on it aint of much use.

"Haha, mine is an evil laugh."

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Friday, May 5, 2006 3:14 PM

KHYRON


I always thought that Anglo refers to English-speaking, so that the 'Anglo' part in the alliance would stand for the English-speaking world (which is lead by America).

However, from Dictionary.com:

An English-speaking person, especially a white North American who is not of Hispanic or French descent.

Usage Note: In contemporary American usage, Anglo is used primarily in direct contrast to Hispanic or Latino. In this context it is not limited to persons of English or even British descent, but can be generally applied to any non-Hispanic white person. Thus in parts of the United States with large Hispanic populations, an American of Polish, Irish, or German heritage might be termed an Anglo just as readily as a person of English descent. However, in parts of the country where the Hispanic community is smaller or nonexistent, or in areas where ethnic distinctions among European groups remain strong, Anglo has little currency as a catch-all term for non-Hispanic whites. ·Anglo is also used in non-Hispanic contexts. In Canada, where its usage dates at least to 1800, the distinction is between persons of English and French descent. And in American historical contexts Anglo is apt to be used more strictly to refer to persons of English heritage, as in this passage describing the politics of nation-building in pre-Revolutionary America: “The ‘unity’ of the American people derived... from the ability and willingness of an Anglo elite to stamp its image on other peoples coming to this country“ (Benjamin Schwarz).


So it seems like 'Anglo' refers to white non-Hispanics, therefore, if America is represented by the 'Anglo' part in the alliance (which it is), then apparently there aren't any non-whites or Hispanics left in America, at least that many... so there's only white non-Hispanics and Chinese people represented by the alliance... does that seem a bit racist to you?

I was okay with the name of the alliance before (thinking it referred to culture and language), but if that's the contemporary definition of Anglo (based on ethnicity), then I do think the Anglo-Sino alliance is misnamed.



Other people can occasionally be useful, especially as minions. I want lots of minions.

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Friday, May 5, 2006 3:28 PM

KHYRON


A previous discussion on this: http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=4923



Other people can occasionally be useful, especially as minions. I want lots of minions.

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Friday, May 5, 2006 5:14 PM

NOSADSEVEN


Quote:

Originally posted by Khyron:
However, from Dictionary.com:

An English-speaking person, especially a white North American who is not of Hispanic or French descent.

Usage Note: In contemporary American usage, Anglo is used primarily in direct contrast to Hispanic or Latino. In this context it is not limited to persons of English or even British descent, but can be generally applied to any non-Hispanic white person. Thus in parts of the United States with large Hispanic populations, an American of Polish, Irish, or German heritage might be termed an Anglo just as readily as a person of English descent. However, in parts of the country where the Hispanic community is smaller or nonexistent, or in areas where ethnic distinctions among European groups remain strong, Anglo has little currency as a catch-all term for non-Hispanic whites. ·Anglo is also used in non-Hispanic contexts. In Canada, where its usage dates at least to 1800, the distinction is between persons of English and French descent. And in American historical contexts Anglo is apt to be used more strictly to refer to persons of English heritage, as in this passage describing the politics of nation-building in pre-Revolutionary America: “The ‘unity’ of the American people derived... from the ability and willingness of an Anglo elite to stamp its image on other peoples coming to this country“ (Benjamin Schwarz).


So it seems like 'Anglo' refers to white non-Hispanics, therefore, if America is represented by the 'Anglo' part in the alliance (which it is), then apparently there aren't any non-whites or Hispanics left in America, at least that many... so there's only white non-Hispanics and Chinese people represented by the alliance... does that seem a bit racist to you?

I was okay with the name of the alliance before (thinking it referred to culture and language), but if that's the contemporary definition of Anglo (based on ethnicity), then I do think the Anglo-Sino alliance is misnamed.

Well, right in the definition you've cited there is ample evidence of the meaning of the term changing both regionally and temporally, so I wouldn't be bothered by the implications of one particular current meaning.


Also of note from the Visual Companion, the formal 'Alliance' itself was not formed until after Sihnon, Londinium and other central planets were already, independently, well established. So the 'Anglo-' half may be derived more directly from the planet name than its Earth-That-Was associations.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ain't. We. Just.

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Friday, May 5, 2006 7:18 PM

CRAJON


Many Sci-fi games and books over the years have used Anglo to mean English speaking people . Look at Star-ship trooper, you think the hero is English/Americian until the last pages. It turns out that he is Filipina.

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Saturday, May 6, 2006 2:00 AM

CITIZEN


I believe it harks back to Churchill's use of the term Anglo-Sphere to describe English speaking nations. Anglo is often used to describe English speaking nations today, including the USA.
Quote:

Aother point of continuity i'd like to ask. If the Alliance had the ability to terraform a planet, certainly they would have done so with Earth. therefore, the debate that seems to exist on whether or not the planet physically still exsists must be moot o this point. If it does physically exist, it would have been utilized by now. the fact that it's become "myth" must indicate the fact it was somehow "destroyed." Although I don't know what sort of tehcnology the Alliance could possess to kill a planet (seeing htey don't even have FTL travel).

You have to ask what the terra-forming process involves. Despite the lack of resources that has already be addressed the terra-forming technology may not have been able to work on Earth. It is also indicated that Earth was over-populated, something terra-forming could do little about.

I doubt that people, at least large populations, would be able to survive on the surface of the planet during the procedure either.



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And as you know, these are open forums, you're able to come and listen to what I have to say.

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Sunday, May 7, 2006 4:54 AM

KIZYR


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:
I believe it harks back to Churchill's use of the term Anglo-Sphere to describe English speaking nations. Anglo is often used to describe English speaking nations today, including the USA.



Right... Anglo-America refers to the United States and Canada specifically, even given the diverse racial composition of each.

That and, once everyone left their old homes, particular nationalities probably meant very little. If you were Anglo- by virtue of being from Europe, Canada, or the United States, it likely didn't matter. KF



~KF

Lord, I'm walking your way. Let me in, for my feet are sore, my clothes are ragged.
Look in my eyes, Lord, and my sins will play out on them as on a screen. Read them all.
Forgive what you can and send me on my path. I will walk on until you bid me rest.

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