"‘God Help Us’: Fox News Columnist Calls Pope Francis the ‘Catholic Church’s Obama’ by Niki2

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

"‘God Help Us’: Fox News Columnist Calls Pope Francis the ‘Catholic Church’s Obama’

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Saturday, December 14, 2013 13:43
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VIEWED: 4524
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Friday, December 13, 2013 4:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Are any of us even Christian? Why does it MATTER what Jesus was if we don't believe in his messages anyway?

I don't consider myself Christian, but Im pretty much down with everything Jesus (real or strictly mythological) had to say.

Its his followers that bug me. The bearded hippie himself, Im a big fan of his message. I just don't think he was a God.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Friday, December 13, 2013 4:02 PM

STORYMARK

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
We're talking about the bible and the teachings of Jesus as though they have some relevance 2000 years later in regards to politics and socio-economics.

When the point is, being driven by greed makes you a bad person - I think it IS relevant.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Friday, December 13, 2013 4:44 PM

BYTEMITE

Quote:
Ergo, what he says IS "just words", and deeds ARE more important, but "words" from a Pope mean more than words from you or I.

More people LISTEN. Whether they mean more is an entirely different thing.

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Friday, December 13, 2013 5:00 PM

BYTEMITE

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Are any of us even Christian? Why does it MATTER what Jesus was if we don't believe in his messages anyway?

I don't consider myself Christian, but Im pretty much down with everything Jesus (real or strictly mythological) had to say.

Its his followers that bug me. The bearded hippie himself, Im a big fan of his message. I just don't think he was a God.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

What bothers me is we're still having religious fights and discussions about religion when few of us are even part of that religion, let alone most of us aren't even religious at all. The implications of this are troubling. Why are we still so influenced by men in shiny dresses with gold embroidery? Why are their words more important than what WE think about the world?

I agree with the pope too, but seriously, my politically ideology was something I'd already decided on as a separate thing from religion. I am under no compunction to defend his views and I have every reason to actually be extremely wary of him. He is an authority figure in an authoritarian church that has historically misused it's power.

So talking about whether the pope's views correspond with the views of someone who died 2014 years ago doesn't really make sense to me in terms of the conversation we're currently having. We're living in the now, dealing with the fallout and repercussions of the present.

It's not as though by proving this point that we can demonstrate that us non-christians are somehow better christians than the christians. I think that ship has sailed. We can, however, choose to be decent human beings without being told WHAT to do by a dusty book or it's designated interpreter.

And if christians disagree with the pope, we can attempt to appeal to their sense of reason and individual goodness (if applicable), instead of quoting the bible at them. Why does this argument have to be framed in terms of religion?

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Friday, December 13, 2013 6:47 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
The only thing that would creep out the rightwing even more would be if Pope Francis were half-black. If that were the case, their heads would blow up from hysteria. It's bad enough (for them) that he's a "spic" who should be cleaning toilets or picking fruit or something.

Cite where anyone on the right referred to the Pope as a " spic " ? I'm not seeing it anywhere in the thread above your post.

TIA.

Also, can't help but notice how Storybook crawfished away from his earlier claims, after he was shown to be so completely full of shyte.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Friday, December 13, 2013 10:27 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

TIA. Transient ischemic attack?

Rappy, only a few ppl will will CALL His Holiness a spic, just like only a few ppl will call Obama a n+gger. But the rightwing (RW) reaction to Obama is totally irrational- yours included. I mean, Obama taking a selfie is cause for comment? Especially when (1) it wasn't Obama's camera and (2) he wasn't taking the selfie, it was the woman next to him - Danish Prime Minister Helle Thorning-Schmidt? And that doesn't count the OTHER irrational stuff, like Obama being a Kenyan, or a Muslim. Woohoo- RW loony tunes!

And the reaction to Pope Francis is just as irrational. Clearly, there is more going on than what either of these men are saying and doing, since neither one of them has so far risen to the level of being the socialist Antichrist that the RW is accusing them of being. (Well, Obama might be the Antichrist, but he's hardly a socialist.)

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Saturday, December 14, 2013 7:00 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Uh.

...I humbly take back my "just words" comments.

Thanks...

Quote:
Because the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversations, words will always retain their power, words are the means to meaning and for those who would listen, the enunciation of truth..

Okay yes, there are those who will reject his message, sure.
But there are those who will NOT.
And given the size of his audience, that's not nothin.

-Frem

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Saturday, December 14, 2013 8:57 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

"Why are we still so influenced by men in shiny dresses with gold embroidery? Why are their words more important than what WE think about the world?"

Byte, I think you're missing the point. WE aren't influenced by him, but we are cognizant of the effect that what he says, as well as what many, many other 'authority figures' say, gets a lot of attention and is, in essence, a Real World Event. Doesn't matter that we don't follow the religion, as I see it. Some of us are arguing that what this authority figure is saying has validity, some that what the right is saying about him is asinine, etc. I don't think it has anything to do with what is important to US as individuals; as you said, most of us don't follow his religion. But we're well aware that the world pays attention, so exactly like some figure in the news saying 47% of Americans are "taker" bums, it becomes news and people discuss it. It's just something we're discussing.

Thanx for the V video, Frem; I adore V for Vendetta; I loved the movie (yes, I know it's an overblown charicature, I don't care) and it's where I fell in love with Hugo Weaving (what he did, with just voice and body language, with no availability of facial expression, left me breathless).

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Saturday, December 14, 2013 9:33 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Rappy, only a few ppl will will CALL His Holiness a spic, just like only a few ppl will call Obama a n+gger. But the rightwing (RW) reaction to Obama is totally irrational- yours included. I mean, Obama taking a selfie is cause for comment? Especially when (1) it wasn't Obama's camera and (2) he wasn't taking the selfie, it was the woman next to him - Danish Prime Minister Helle Thorning-Schmidt? And that doesn't count the OTHER irrational stuff, like Obama being a Kenyan, or a Muslim. Woohoo- RW loony tunes!

So,when I ask if there's any actual quote by anyone on the Right his His Holiness was referred to as a " spic ", you have nothing ? Thought as much.

I assume you mean the Right's reaction to Obama IN THIS SITUATION , correct? Because this radical Leftist who has little to no regard for the US constitution sure as hell is the legitimate focal point of all the scorn that's come his way, on a host of matters.

He still posed for the selfie, didn't he ?

Quote:

And the reaction to Pope Francis is just as irrational. Clearly, there is more going on than what either of these men are saying and doing, since neither one of them has so far risen to the level of being the socialist Antichrist that the RW is accusing them of being. (Well, Obama might be the Antichrist, but he's hardly a socialist.)

How is it irrational ? There are those with in the Church itself who are more than a little concerned over this. And it's funny that you think Obama is " hardly a socialist ",when so many of his policies stem from his upbringing , surrounded by Marxist and Socialist types. Those are who he admitted to hanging around with in college, and yet you're naive enough ( or believe others are stupid enough ) to believe he's just some random, middle of the road politician.

WOW.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Saturday, December 14, 2013 9:52 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Leaving aside all the regurgitated idiocy Rap spouted about Obama, I'll answer the question about "Pope spic". Like you said, Sig, the majority of people won't actually say it out loud, but it's certainly out there:

"An Old Spic? Really?" http://iwsradio.blogspot.com/2013/03/an-old-spic-really.html

"The Pope is a Spic...I love it!" https://twitter.com/madflavor/status/312149528784547840

"Spic Pope a homosexual pedophile?" https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.slack/fopddzbTbVU

I'm sure those are all just a bunch of PC lefties…or else they're fake, intended to make the right look bad… You betcha.

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Saturday, December 14, 2013 11:25 AM

BYTEMITE

Quote:
WE aren't influenced by him, but we are cognizant of the effect that what he says, as well as what many, many other 'authority figures' say,

How many people on this world immediately go out and do whatever some authority figure tells them, even if there's a hell or a heaven involved?

Even right wing folks who listen to Rush Limbaugh might take his word as gospel, but that doesn't mean they're going to ACT on it. The previous election count shows this.

We're talking HUMANS here. Humans who have been raised a certain way with certain pre-existing beliefs, humans who tend to be lazy, humans who have their OWN already established lives to worry about that are MUCH more important than some distant fuzzy headed promise of a reward or threat. That's a heckuva lot of inertia to overcome.

And that's without considering how other leaders of the catholic church will use and undermine Pope Francis for their own gain.

I'm just saying, don't get your hopes up for change - lots of leaders preach hope and compassion without any effect. Or even prove themselves hypocrites.

I'm also saying don't sell yourselves short. Pope Francis is a drop in the bucket compared to if enough people got it into their heads to actually MOBILIZE. For their OWN reasons, preferably, and not what some figurehead who might be using them tells them.

Frem - that wasn't quite what I meant. I have doubts about the ability of words to incite action, but in my dismissal I neglected to account for how words can cause SERIOUS HARM.

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Saturday, December 14, 2013 11:28 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
So,when I ask if there's any actual quote by anyone on the Right his His Holiness was referred to as a " spic ", you have nothing ? Thought as much.

Well, setting aside that Niki DID find quotes, my direct counter to that point (which you failed to process, as usual) is that whether I - or anyone - finds quotes or not is IRRELEVANT, because that wasn't the evidence on which I based my statement.

MY evidence is that the RW goes completely bug-nuts irrational on the topic of Obama, and now also on the topic of Pope Francis.

Quote:
Because this radical Leftist [Obama???] who has little to no regard for the US constitution sure as hell is the legitimate focal point of all the scorn that's come his way, on a host of matters.

First of all, you wouldn't recognize a radical leftist if you saw one. That concept of Obama being a radical leftist is yet another example of your total failure to see reality because of your panicked need to attack him.

And I agree that Obama deserves a lot of criticism. A lot. Just as much as GWB.

But NOT on the matter of "taking a selfie" (It was your own irrationality that caused you to not even SEE the picture, and to frame it as "taking" a selfie, so I'm sticking with your original characterization and not with your after-the-fact-climb-down), or being a Muslim or a Kenyan, or not having a valid birth certificate, or using a teleprompter, or being a radical leftist (HA!) or any number of other LUNATIC characterizations that the rightwing has made.

All of that lunacy over a Democrat who is really just a continuation of GWB!? I can't account for it any other way than rabid racial/ethnic prejudice: the need to portray this politically and economically rather rightish President as being not like us. And now the same with Pope Francis. Ye gods, the froth is just bubbling our of your collective ears! As has been previously posted, what would you say now if Mother Theresa or even Pope John XXIII were to be active today?

Oh yeah, that's right- the same that the RW said of Nelson Mandela (who was black! Oh dear).

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Saturday, December 14, 2013 11:41 AM

BYTEMITE

Mother Teresa was a horrible person.

I despise people who pretend to be for helping people, but instead revel in and profit from suffering.

I sort of think that if a person gets something out of helping someone else, they might be doing something wrong. Including personal validation.

That is NOT the reason to help people. Helping people is the reason to help people.

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Saturday, December 14, 2013 12:18 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Mother Teresa was a horrible person. I despise people who pretend to be for helping people, but instead revel in and profit from suffering.

Did Mother Theresa profit? I thought she lived a rather impoverished existence.

AFA getting something out of helping people... What a lot of people get out of helping people, fundamentally, is that seeing someone suffer makes them feel bad, so they will help the other person to alleviate their own suffering. It's called empathy, and it's part of most peoples' psychological make up. Other people help people because it's part of their religion- they feel they will be rewarded later for something they do now. Yanno, build up good karma chits. Or they feel guilty for not helping, because of their training. Some people help because of a conscious identification with others; they think that their outcomes are tied to the outcomes of others. In a lot of ways, people do get something out of helping others and there's nothing wrong with that. It's part of both our typical psychological makeup and the physical reality of our interdependent existence.

AFA Mother Theresa was concerned, she confessed that after a few years of helping the poor, that lambent connection to God faded, and after that it was all a dutiful slogging. So as far as I can tell she didn't profit either materially or emotionally from her work. But maybe there are things about her that I don't know, or that people around her profited.

There ARE some reasons to "help" others... and more importantly, some rewards ... that perpetuate poverty. Bill Gates, Pierre Omidyar (eBay founder), David Friedberg (Google, Climate Corp) and a host of other techie-cum-social-pretension donors who "donate" to causes which will (ultimately) benefit the donor with either more money or more power. For example, Bill Gates donates to anything that will pay off in intellectual property later (the Doomsday Seed Vault, vaccine research) and Pierre Omidyar believes in micro-lending for profit. You know, the whole Doing well by doing good rationalization that the extremely wealthy and powerful use to cover up their Randian goals.

The BEST kind of help is the kind that fosters independence.

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Saturday, December 14, 2013 1:43 PM

BYTEMITE

Quote:
Did Mother Theresa profit? I thought she lived a rather impoverished existence.

Her charity did. She fell into the trap of many charities, wherein obtaining funding for the charity began to exceed the importance of the actual work of the charity, and very little of that money went to the people actually in need.

Which was compounded by the fact that she thought that suffering was purifying, so they tended to be a little scant on the painkillers and medicines and decent beds and basically anything that actually helped or comforted the terminally ill her organization cared for. This despite being a million dollar a year organization.

The math is pretty simple.

If you want me to show you an example of how intending to help others to alleviate your own guilt and make yourself feel better actually doesn't help people and makes the world MUCH worse, Mother Teresa is like the freakin' poster child.

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