REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

human actions, global climate change, global human solutions

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Thursday, September 1, 2022 6:13 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


One billionaire's jaunt to space emits as much greenhouse gasses as the poorest billion people do for an entire year.

Speaking of buying shit you don't need.

It's not "people" who need to reduce their living standard. It's not even "Americans" who need to reduce their living standard. There are over two hundred thousand homeless in the USA: how much lower are they supposed to sink?

There are roughly 60,000,000 food insecure Americans. How much lower are THEY supposed to sink?

It's true that too many Americans buy too much shit that they don't need. Our housekeeper, a prime example of a dysfunctionally poor person, was buying her (growing) children expensive leather jackets (they would soon grow out of) and laptops she couldn't afford, a secondhand Mercedes (status symbol) that turned out to be a Frankenstein's monster of one engine head fitted to a different model block that was unrepairable when it broke. Meanwhile, she became homeless until she moved in with us (rent free) but continued her dysfunctional ways even after she was able to move out again

I would call her voluntarily poor. So, yes, some people really need lessons on how to live with less! But there are a number of poor people who are willing to work and just scraping by. And the problem is that costs for THE BASICS: food, housing, healthcare, transportation... are inflating, or already have inflated, way beyond the reach of the ordinary person. There's no way that an average person can save up enough money to afford a house, or a medical crisis or family medical insurance, no matter how many beans they eat instead of meat.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake


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Thursday, September 1, 2022 9:54 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
One billionaire's jaunt to space emits as much greenhouse gasses as the poorest billion people do for an entire year.

Bezos, right? Unusually, for the actual rocket launch, the CO2 isn’t really the biggest deal here. It’s possible to use rocket fuel without any carbon in it at all – NASA has been using liquid hydrogen for decades, and Jeff Bezos’ rocket used it too.
https://cosmosmagazine.com/space/astrophysics/greenhouse-gas-space-x/

Rocket Engines Designed for Reuse
https://www.blueorigin.com/engines/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Thursday, September 1, 2022 10:11 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Fuck Pakistan.

The USA dumped every year about 5 billion metric tonnes of CO2 into the atmosphere since you were born, 6ix. It is the USA that is fucking Pakistan by dumping its waste into Pakistan's air. But the Republicans in Congress want to continue the free dumping of CO2 forever and never pay for removal from the atmosphere. The total CO2, measured in hundreds of billions of metric tonnes, is flooding Pakistan.



China's closer. So is India.

China and India make our CO2 emissions look like a single cow fart by comparison.

Your understanding of how all the shit you buy that you don't need and the impact it has on the environment is as simple minded and incorrect as your understanding about how bad your coal burning cars are for the environment. That's because you're not sitting in a constant cloud of smog where things are actually made and you believe that electricity is magic.

Get fucked worm.

Shifting blame does not make sense, 6ix.


It's not shifting the blame. It's stating a fact. I'm not blaming China OR India. [SEE BELOW]

Quote:

The research by Rhodium Group says China emitted 27% of the world's greenhouse gases in 2019. The US was the second-largest emitter at 11% while India was third with 6.6% of emissions, the think tank said.


Big fucking deal. What REALLY matters here is how much of the combined world pollution is put into products and services that the destination country uses.

America tops that fucking list any way you fudge the numbers.

All of you cunts virtue tweeting about the environment from that shiny new "smart" phone you buy every year or two can go right on and get fucked. YOU are the problem.


But you don't even recognize that you are the problem because the air you breathe isn't so thick with pollution you can cut through it with a knife. You reap the benefits of all the overpriced disposable shit made on the cheap half a world away that you buy every day and don't need, and all you see is the shiny clean box it comes in without putting any thought into how much damage was done to the environment to make that and bring it to you. Nor do you give any fucking thought to how that magic electricity comes cleanly out of your wall outlets.

The same can be said about the coal burning cars that California is demonstrating for the world right now how they will NEVER work out unless massive infrastructure improvements including hundreds or maybe even thousands of nuclear plants will have to be constructed before they ever actually become adopted en masse.

--------------------------------------------------

Falsus in unum, falsus in omnibus

If you were an engineer, you could see, with a little imagination, that CO2 is a waste stream. What do engineers do with waste streams, as an engineer? Do you close the factory because it produces waste? No. No. No. Do you tell people to live without the factory's products because the factory produces waste? No. No. No. Here is what should happen:

Once upon a time, factories along the Houston Ship Channel dumped their waste streams directly into the Ship Channel. That only stopped when the Federal government declared that it has control over pollution in all navigable waters of the United States, which includes the Ship Channel. After the factories sued the Federal government and the cases went to the Supreme Court, the factories were forced to stop dumping their waste streams into the Houston Ship Channel. By the way, the factories magically found ways to properly handle their wastes, once they were forced to spend the money. The same will happen with CO2 waste streams, but only after the Federal government forces factories to search for the magic to handle CO2.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Thursday, September 1, 2022 10:51 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Fuck Pakistan.

The USA dumped every year about 5 billion metric tonnes of CO2 into the atmosphere since you were born, 6ix. It is the USA that is fucking Pakistan by dumping its waste into Pakistan's air. But the Republicans in Congress want to continue the free dumping of CO2 forever and never pay for removal from the atmosphere. The total CO2, measured in hundreds of billions of metric tonnes, is flooding Pakistan.



China's closer. So is India.

China and India make our CO2 emissions look like a single cow fart by comparison.

Your understanding of how all the shit you buy that you don't need and the impact it has on the environment is as simple minded and incorrect as your understanding about how bad your coal burning cars are for the environment. That's because you're not sitting in a constant cloud of smog where things are actually made and you believe that electricity is magic.

Get fucked worm.

Shifting blame does not make sense, 6ix.


It's not shifting the blame. It's stating a fact. I'm not blaming China OR India. [SEE BELOW]

Quote:

The research by Rhodium Group says China emitted 27% of the world's greenhouse gases in 2019. The US was the second-largest emitter at 11% while India was third with 6.6% of emissions, the think tank said.


Big fucking deal. What REALLY matters here is how much of the combined world pollution is put into products and services that the destination country uses.

America tops that fucking list any way you fudge the numbers.

All of you cunts virtue tweeting about the environment from that shiny new "smart" phone you buy every year or two can go right on and get fucked. YOU are the problem.


But you don't even recognize that you are the problem because the air you breathe isn't so thick with pollution you can cut through it with a knife. You reap the benefits of all the overpriced disposable shit made on the cheap half a world away that you buy every day and don't need, and all you see is the shiny clean box it comes in without putting any thought into how much damage was done to the environment to make that and bring it to you. Nor do you give any fucking thought to how that magic electricity comes cleanly out of your wall outlets.

The same can be said about the coal burning cars that California is demonstrating for the world right now how they will NEVER work out unless massive infrastructure improvements including hundreds or maybe even thousands of nuclear plants will have to be constructed before they ever actually become adopted en masse.

--------------------------------------------------

Falsus in unum, falsus in omnibus

If you were an engineer, you could see, with a little imagination, that CO2 is a waste stream. What do engineers do with waste streams, as an engineer? Do you close the factory because it produces waste? No. No. No. Do you tell people to live without the factory's products because the factory produces waste? No. No. No. Here is what should happen:

Once upon a time, factories along the Houston Ship Channel dumped their waste streams directly into the Ship Channel. That only stopped when the Federal government declared that it has control over pollution in all navigable waters of the United States, which includes the Ship Channel. After the factories sued the Federal government and the cases went to the Supreme Court, the factories were forced to stop dumping their waste streams into the Houston Ship Channel. By the way, the factories magically found ways to properly handle their wastes, once they were forced to spend the money. The same will happen with CO2 waste streams, but only after the Federal government forces factories to search for the magic to handle CO2.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two



No shit.

That was the easy fix.

Ship all those plants and jobs overseas where they don't give a single shit about emissions. Bonus when you get 12 year olds to make your Nike's and iPhones for a quarter a day too.


You are the problem. And you know this. That's why you always feel guilty about everything.

But all the virtue signalling in the world isn't ever going to alleviate any of that guilt.

--------------------------------------------------

Falsus in unum, falsus in omnibus

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Friday, September 2, 2022 2:52 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
One billionaire's jaunt to space emits as much greenhouse gasses as the poorest billion people do for an entire year.

Bezos, right? Unusually, for the actual rocket launch, the CO2 isn’t really the biggest deal here. It’s possible to use rocket fuel without any carbon in it at all – NASA has been using liquid hydrogen for decades, and Jeff Bezos’ rocket used it too.
https://cosmosmagazine.com/space/astrophysics/greenhouse-gas-space-x/

Rocket Engines Designed for Reuse
https://www.blueorigin.com/engines/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

There are three billionaire-rocket engines being touted:

Musk's Space X. Its big claim to fame is being reusable, but that doesn't mean it's emission-free. Musk or his engineers settled on methane as a compromise between rocket fuel (which is a highly-refined jet fuel, which presents problems with internal jet fouling unless you burn your pre-flame oxygen-rich and have that special metallurgy that Americans thought was impossible, which Russia developed) and hydrogen, which is difficult to store (so rocket engines must be fueled right before flight) and has low BTU. In fact, the BTU content is SO low that the space shuttles relied on solid-fuel "boosters" (which burn unevenly and shake the hell out of the payload) and don't switch over to liquid fuel until halfway to space.
You really sould watch this, I did:


NOTE: not all of his rocket engines use methane- which BTW still emits CO2. Some use the standard ultra-refined kerosene (RP-1, LOTS of CO2 emisisons there!) and others claim to use mnonmethyl amine and that infamous greenhouse gas nitrous oxide.

Branson's version, Vergin Galactic, which uses a solid rubber-like, which creates emissions, and plenty of them.
https://spacenews.com/virgin-galactic-switching-back-to-rubber-fuel-fo
r-spaceshiptwo
/

Jeff Bezos' version Blue Origin which uses liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen, is the only low-emission rocket.
https://news.yahoo.com/much-carbon-emitted-jeff-bezos-205854650.html


Branson went into space first, on his own rocket. I wonder how much emissions THAT created!
Bezos was second.

Various billionaires have gone into space on a variety of rockets:
Jared Isaacman, Space X Dragon rocket (kerosene-based rocket fuel SpaceX-designed Merlin LOX/RP-1 https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/station/structure/elements/dragon.h
tml
) Lots of emissions there!

Yusaku Maezawa, Soyuz. There too!
Dennis Tito, Soyuz. And there!

William Shatner, Blue Origin
Michael Strahan, Blue Origin

If I add it up correctly, that's four billion-years of greenhouse gas emissions right there.


You're just troll, SECOND.
And a know nothing.
Anyone who takes your posts seriously is stupider than you are.



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake


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Friday, September 2, 2022 9:40 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

If I add it up correctly, that's four billion-years of greenhouse gas emissions right there.


You're just troll, SECOND.
And a know nothing.
Anyone who takes your posts seriously is stupider than you are.

Signym, you are overestimating rocket flights and underestimating airplane flights.

One rocket launch produces 200-300 tonnes of carbon dioxide, if kerosine fueled rather than hydrogen. In the whole of 2020, for instance, there were 114 attempted orbital launches in the world, burning all kinds of fuels, according to Nasa.

For one long-haul plane flight it’s one to three tons of carbon dioxide per passenger. There is only one kind of fuel for those jets, unlike for rockets. With 200 passengers, that is more CO2 than a rocket flight. The airline industry has more than 100,000 flights each day on average.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/jul/19/billionaires-space-tou
rism-environment-emissions


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Friday, September 2, 2022 9:59 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

No shit.

That was the easy fix.

Ship all those plants and jobs overseas where they don't give a single shit about emissions. Bonus when you get 12 year olds to make your Nike's and iPhones for a quarter a day too.


You are the problem. And you know this. That's why you always feel guilty about everything.

But all the virtue signalling in the world isn't ever going to alleviate any of that guilt.

Are you under the impression that the factories along the Houston Ship Channel were closed in Texas and reopened in China, rather than clean up their waste streams being dumped into the Ship Channel? The Texas factories did NOT close. All the refineries and petrochemical plants stayed in Texas and have increased production and profitability. Their owners had complained that the factories would go bankrupt because the Federal government's rules on dumping pollution into the Ship Channel. I've been waiting 30 years for the first bankruptcy, but none happened.

I think the factory owners were lying to the public, to Congress, and to the Supreme Court just because the owners didn't want to spend the money to clean their waste streams dumped into the Ship Channel. Time passes and today the same factory owners are lying about CO2 because they, once again, don't want to spend the money to clean their CO2 waste streams dumped into the atmosphere.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Friday, September 2, 2022 10:23 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

No shit.

That was the easy fix.

Ship all those plants and jobs overseas where they don't give a single shit about emissions. Bonus when you get 12 year olds to make your Nike's and iPhones for a quarter a day too.


You are the problem. And you know this. That's why you always feel guilty about everything.

But all the virtue signalling in the world isn't ever going to alleviate any of that guilt.

Are you under the impression that the factories along the Houston Ship Channel were closed in Texas and reopened in China, rather than clean up their waste streams being dumped into the Ship Channel? The Texas factories did NOT close. All the refineries and petrochemical plants stayed in Texas and have increased production and profitability. Their owners had complained that the factories would go bankrupt because the Federal government's rules on dumping pollution into the Ship Channel. I've been waiting 30 years for the first bankruptcy, but none happened.

I think the factory owners were lying to the public, to Congress, and to the Supreme Court just because the owners didn't want to spend the money to clean their waste streams dumped into the Ship Channel. Time passes and today the same factory owners are lying about CO2 because they, once again, don't want to spend the money to clean their CO2 waste streams dumped into the atmosphere.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two



I'm not talking about your deranged little multiverse world of Texas you've built up in your damaged brain.

PRO TIP: Nobody else you ever engage with is either.

--------------------------------------------------

Falsus in unum, falsus in omnibus

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Friday, September 2, 2022 1:02 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

If I add it up correctly, that's four billion-years of greenhouse gas emissions right there.


You're just troll, SECOND.
And a know nothing.
Anyone who takes your posts seriously is stupider than you are.

Signym, you are overestimating rocket flights and underestimating airplane flights.

One rocket launch produces 200-300 tonnes of carbon dioxide, if kerosine fueled rather than hydrogen. In the whole of 2020, for instance, there were 114 attempted orbital launches in the world, burning all kinds of fuels, according to Nasa.

For one long-haul plane flight it’s one to three tons of carbon dioxide per passenger. There is only one kind of fuel for those jets, unlike for rockets. With 200 passengers, that is more CO2 than a rocket flight. The airline industry has more than 100,000 flights each day on average.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/jul/19/billionaires-space-tou
rism-environment-emissions


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

So, let's see... WHO, exactly, are flying their private jets all over creation?

Who even flies commercially? The homeless? The barrista/Walmart greeter? The Chinese factory worker, the farmer in South Asia/ Africa/ S America?

And speaking of jets... What about all those FIGHTER JETS? Yanno, the ones blasting off from carriers to the tune of tens of thousands of gallons each time?

Lotta waste by the wealthy and the military, SECOND.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake


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Friday, September 2, 2022 1:45 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:

So, let's see... WHO, exactly, are flying their private jets all over creation?

Who even flies commercially? The homeless? The barrista/Walmart greeter? The Chinese factory worker, the farmer in South Asia/ Africa/ S America?

And speaking of jets... What about all those FIGHTER JETS? Yanno, the ones blasting off from carriers to the tune of tens of thousands of gallons each time?

Lotta waste by the wealthy and the military, SECOND.

Signym, your point is hovering around not making a CO2 waste stream, a very straightforward way to decrease CO2. Did you know that every person emits two tons of carbon dioxide a year through eating? Stop eating and straightforward stop a CO2 waste stream.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/11/101102131108.htm

My point was that CO2 is a waste stream and could be handled exactly the same as any other waste stream from a factory, but usually isn't handled because capturing CO2 costs money, just as capturing water pollution costs money. It is engineering and money to pull CO2 out of the air to make jet fuel and rocket fuel, but it is not done often because the people who buy fuel don't want to pay when there are cheaper fuels.

JUNE 7, 2018 - "This Gasoline Is Made of Carbon Sucked From the Air"
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/carbon-engineering-
liquid-fuel-carbon-capture-neutral-science
Quote:

Getting it right also meant keeping the costs below $100 for each ton of CO2 removed from the atmosphere. The design and engineering cost of the pilot project that’s been running since 2015 in Squamish, British Columbia, was published today in the peer-reviewed energy journal Joule. The company used existing industrial processes to scale up and reduce costs.

“Our paper shows the costs and engineering for a full-scale plant that could capture one million tons of CO2 a year,” Keith said.

Until now, the costs of CO2 removal, or what’s known as “direct air capture,” were believed to be at least $600 per ton.


FEBRUARY 9, 2022 - "Stanford engineers create a catalyst that can turn carbon dioxide into gasoline 1,000 times more efficiently"
https://news.stanford.edu/2022/02/09/turning-carbon-dioxide-gasoline-e
fficiently
/

CO2 from air made into fuel
https://www.google.com/search?q=CO2+from+air+made+into+fuel

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Friday, September 2, 2022 2:32 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:

So, let's see... WHO, exactly, are flying their private jets all over creation?

Who even flies commercially? The homeless? The barrista/Walmart greeter? The Chinese factory worker, the farmer in South Asia/ Africa/ S America?

And speaking of jets... What about all those FIGHTER JETS? Yanno, the ones blasting off from carriers to the tune of tens of thousands of gallons each time?

Lotta waste by the wealthy and the military, SECOND.

Signym, your point is hovering around not making a CO2 waste stream, a very straightforward way to decrease CO2. Did you know that every person emits two tons of carbon dioxide a year through eating? Stop eating and straightforward stop a CO2 waste stream.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/11/101102131108.htm



Oh for fuck's sake, SECOND.

It's not like I haven't posted at least a half-dozen times about increasing carbon absorption with regenerative farming, better forest management, and other environmental practices.

By paying farmers to increase the carbon content of their soil they would gain anither source of income and improve yields without stripping the soil.

It doesn't need whoopiedoopie "technology" (which you are probably hoping to make $ with) to improve our carbon footprint.

About a dozen years ago, I did a global calculation on how much energy was being produced, and what the per capita energy consumption was. USA and Canada were twice per Capita of Europe as a whole. Nobody would have claimed then that Europe had a low standard of living. We could reduce our energy consumption in half w/o reducing our living standards (it would take reducing our huge wealth gap). That "saved" energy, if applied to the impoverished of the world, could bring up their living standards to approximately Costa Rica or Cuba (again, assuming there are no ultra wealthy oligarchs soaking up all of that energy for personal use). With improved living standards and education for women comes a drop in population growth.

Si se puede.
PS: I'm pointing out that you're just a troll and a liar, and anyone who takes your posts seriously is stupider than you are.


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake


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Friday, September 2, 2022 3:48 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:

Oh for fuck's sake, SECOND.

It's not like I haven't posted at least a half-dozen times about increasing carbon absorption with regenerative farming, better forest management, and other environmental practices.

By paying farmers to increase the carbon content of their soil they would gain anither source of income and improve yields without stripping the soil.

It doesn't need whoopiedoopie "technology" (which you are probably hoping to make $ with) to improve our carbon footprint.

What's stopping the gardeners of the world from solving the CO2 problem?

Or you can leave it to scientists to turn it into ten thousand goddamn research projects that won't make any difference for the next 50 years. "Research Opportunities for CO2 Utilization and Negative Emissions at the Gigatonne Scale" https://www.cell.com/joule/fulltext/S2542-4351(18)30179-X

If you are in a hurry to solve the CO2 problem before we all die from heat and drought and floods and hurricanes, I know what is stopping engineers from solving it in the next 10 years. It is money. Pay them and the CO2 problem will be solved quickly, not slowly by Mother Nature or by gardeners or by scientists attached to Universities.

June 7, 2018 -- Carbon Engineering’s Large-scale Direct Air Capture Breakthrough
https://carbonengineering.com/news-updates/climate-change-breakthrough/

A Process for Capturing CO2 from the Atmosphere
https://www.cell.com/joule/pdf/S2542-4351(18)30225-3.pdf

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Friday, September 2, 2022 4:26 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Of riginally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:

Oh for fuck's sake, SECOND.

It's not like I haven't posted at least a half-dozen times about increasing carbon absorption with regenerative farming, better forest management, and other environmental practices.

By paying farmers to increase the carbon content of their soil they would gain anither source of income and improve yields without stripping the soil.

It doesn't need whoopiedoopie "technology" (which you are probably hoping to make $ with) to improve our carbon footprint.

What's stopping the gardeners of the world from solving the CO2 problem?

Farmers, not gardeners.

Money.

Quote:

Or you can leave it to scientists to turn it into ten thousand goddamn research projects
Oh,like the researchers are trying to make artificial photosynthesizers? Looking for that breakthrough H2 storage technology? "The" battery or fuel cell or capture technology to end all technologies?

My dad, who grew up on a farm, told me about a sandy field they were trying to make arable. They grew vetch, a legume which adds nitrogen to the soil, and then plowed it in to add carbon to the soil (it's called "green manure").

Cover crops, contour farming, green manure, rotational farming are well-known methodsforimproving the soil. But bc farmers are in intense commodity competition, andbc it requires huge capital investment, farmers need to extract as much crop per a re as possible.

AFA better forest management... well, there is NO money in it. That needs to be funded from non-commercial sources.

And there's no reason not to institute these programs right away. Unlike the boondoggle of "carbon credits" they would be independent programs.

You're looking for engineering solutions where a technology company can patent a solution and make money. By all means, continue to research. But if this is the "all hands on deck" kind of problem that you seem to think, then we should be implementing solutions right away too, even if they won't get you a lot of government $.


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake


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Friday, September 2, 2022 5:19 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:

Money.

How much would it cost to stop global warming?
https://www.google.com/search?q=how+much+would+it+cost+to+stop+global+
warming


The biggest number I can find is $131 Trillion. The longer humanity waits to get started, the higher this number will get. Many people are assuming they can avoid paying the price by waiting to start the work until after they are dead.

The Cost to Reduce Global Warming? $131 Trillion Is One Answer | WSJ
https://www.lse.ac.uk/granthaminstitute/news/the-cost-to-reduce-global
-warming-131-trillion-is-one-answer-wsj
/

The World's GDP is $103.86 trillion as of 2022
https://www.populationu.com/gen/countries-by-gdp

Humans being human, they do not want to pay to save the world.
Let somebody else pay. Let somebody else do the work while humanity watches and congratulates itself for being wise enough to do nothing but reap all the benefits for free.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Friday, September 2, 2022 5:35 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:

Money.

How much would it cost to stop global warming?
https://www.google.com/search?q=how+much+would+it+cost+to+stop+global+
warming


The biggest number I can find is $131 Trillion. The longer humanity waits to get started, the higher this number will get. Many people are assuming they can avoid paying the price by waiting to start the work until after they are dead.

The Cost to Reduce Global Warming? $131 Trillion Is One Answer | WSJ
https://www.lse.ac.uk/granthaminstitute/news/the-cost-to-reduce-global
-warming-131-trillion-is-one-answer-wsj
/

The World's GDP is $103.86 trillion as of 2022
https://www.populationu.com/gen/countries-by-gdp

Humans being human, they do not want to pay to save the world.
Let somebody else pay. Let somebody else do the work while humanity watches and congratulates itself for being wise enough to do nothing but reap all the benefits for free.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


So why do you support our government spending money (possibly unwisely) on climate change technologies, other than that you hope to get some of that government green?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake


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Friday, September 2, 2022 5:59 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:

So why do you support our government spending money (possibly unwisely) on climate change technologies, other than that you hope to get some of that government green?

Trumptards don't want to pay because they realize they can get the ALL the benefits of halting climate change if everyone but themselves pay. But if the US government pays to halt climate change, the Trumptards will get billed for what they expected would be absolutely free as the air and sunshine are free. This greatly upsets Trumptards. What also upsets Trumptards is the idea that China is not halting climate change. Once again, the Trumptards are expecting somebody else to pay all costs, in this case China, rather than they pay any of the cost.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Friday, September 2, 2022 6:46 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:

So why do you support our government spending money (possibly unwisely) on climate change technologies, other than that you hope to get some of that government green?

Trumptards don't want to pay because they realize they can get the ALL the benefits of halting climate change if everyone but themselves pay. But if the US government pays to halt climate change, the Trumptards will get billed for what they expected would be absolutely free as the air and sunshine are free. This greatly upsets Trumptards. What also upsets Trumptards is the idea that China is not halting climate change. Once again, the Trumptards are expecting somebody else to pay all costs, in this case China, rather than they pay any of the cost.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Nice way to avoid the question, SECOND.
BUT I'm not a Trumptard.
What is YOUR dog in this?
Genuinely concerned?
Money making oppty to assuage a guilty conscience?
Just something to virtue signal/troll about?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake


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Friday, September 2, 2022 7:38 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


European Private Jet Demand Soars As Rich Avoid Travel Chaos

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/european-private-jet-demand-soars-ri
ch-avoid-travel-chaos


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake


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Friday, September 2, 2022 7:59 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:

Nice way to avoid the question, SECOND.
BUT I'm not a Trumptard.
What is YOUR dog in this?
Genuinely concerned?
Money making oppty to assuage a guilty conscience?
Just something to virtue signal/troll about?

I am not guilty. I'm not trolling you. I am telling you the truth. A Trumptard is a retarded thing, not necessarily a person, that is also an apologist for Trump. That is you, Signym. Remember your "Russia, Russia, Russia"? You never understood that the Mueller Report was about 1) Russian Interference in the 2016 election and 2) Trump's obstruction of Mueller. Both 1) and 2) really happened which make Signym's denial of what happened stupidly unreal and unreliable. Signym, you are empty inside. So is 6ix. How you two emptied yourselves I don't know but real people I've known long before Trump got into politics, who voted for Trump, were always stupidly unrealistic, unreliable, empty inside and they always had unhealthy lives because that is who they are. This is not trolling. This is the truth. These people never understood Trump and never understood climate change and there is almost nothing they can understand which why they have sad and disappointing lives.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Friday, September 2, 2022 8:05 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Climate Change and Back to Drawing Board for Economists

To many economists, the approach pioneered by Dr. Nordhaus was increasingly out of step with the urgency that climate scientists were trying to communicate to policymakers. But a carbon tax remained at the center of a bipartisan effort on climate change, supported by a panoply of large corporations and more than 3,600 economists, that also called for removing “cumbersome regulations.”

In his Nobel speech in 2018, Dr. Nordhaus pegged the “optimal” carbon price — that is, the shared economic burden caused by each ton of emissions — at $43 in 2020. Gernot Wagner, a climate economist at Columbia Business School, called it a “woeful underestimate of the true cost” — noting that the prize committee’s home country already taxed carbon at $120 per ton.

By that time, progressive organizations in the United States had started to take another tack. Carbon prices, they reasoned, tend to hit lower-income people hardest. Even if the proceeds funded rebates to taxpayers, as many proponents recommended, similar promises by supporters of trade liberalization — that people whose jobs went offshore would get help finding new ones in a faster-growing economy — proved illusory. Besides, without government investment in low-carbon infrastructure, many people would have no alternative to continued carbon use.

Rhiana Gunn-Wright, director of climate policy at the left-leaning Roosevelt Institute and an architect of the Green New Deal:

“You’re saying, ‘Things are going to cost more, but we aren’t going to give you help to live with that transition. Gas prices can go up, but the fact is, most people are locked into how much they have to travel each day.”

More at https://angrybearblog.com/2022/09/climate-change-sends-economists-back
-to-drawing-board


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Saturday, September 3, 2022 12:57 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:

Nice way to avoid the question, SECOND.
BUT I'm not a Trumptard.
What is YOUR dog in this?
Genuinely concerned?
Money making oppty to assuage a guilty conscience?
Just something to virtue signal/troll about?

I am not guilty. I'm not trolling you. I am telling you the truth.


You've been caught in so many self-contadictions its clear that EVEN YOU don't believe what you post. And if YOU don't believe what you post, why should I?
Keep trolling.
It's what you do best.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake


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Monday, September 5, 2022 8:34 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

You've been caught in so many self-contadictions its clear that EVEN YOU don't believe what you post. And if YOU don't believe what you post, why should I?
Keep trolling.
It's what you do best.

Signym, you have a dullard's impoverished imagination where nothing can change because every engineer is as slow working, stupid and unoriginal as you are, a former low-level, sleepy bureaucrat in state government. You are out of your depth, Signym.

The first fully hydrogen-powered passenger train service is now running in Germany

Alstom's Coradia iLint trains only emit steam and condensed water.

Coradia iLint trains built by Alstom are running on the line in Lower Saxony, Germany. The only emissions are steam and condensed water, and Alstom notes that the train operates with a low level of noise.

Five of the trains started running this week. Another nine will be added in the coming months to replace 15 diesel trains on the regional route. Alstom says the Coradia iLint has a range of 1,000 kilometers, meaning that it can run all day on the line using a single tank of hydrogen. A hydrogen filling station has been set up on the route between Cuxhaven, Bremerhaven, Bremervörde and Buxtehude.

Alstom, which started testing the trains in 2018, has agreements for Coradia iLint in other locales, including for 27 trains in the Frankfurt metropolitan area. The two other contracts are for regions in Italy and France.

The company notes that despite electrification efforts in some countries, much of Europe's rail network will rely on trains that are not electrified in the long term. It notes that there are more than 4,000 diesel-powered cars in Germany alone. In 2020, the country's national rail operator, Deutsche Bahn, said it was developing a hydrogen-powered train. While it will take some time to entirely switch the continent's rail network to green energy (assuming the full conversion happens at some point), bringing hydrogen-powered trains into service is a positive step forward.

https://www.engadget.com/the-first-hydrogen-powered-train-line-is-now-
in-service-142028596.html




The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Monday, September 5, 2022 10:42 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
You are out of your depth, Signym.



That's hilarious. The only person here dumb enough to be able to maintain a conversation with you is Ted, and Ted doesn't like you.

Awwwww

--------------------------------------------------

Falsus in unum, falsus in omnibus

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Tuesday, September 6, 2022 3:30 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Just more of SECOND'S trolling.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake


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Tuesday, September 6, 2022 5:29 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Just more of SECOND'S trolling.

The last job I worked on for Bechtel was in Amarillo, deep in Trump country.

We built a scrubber to remove sulfur from a stack for the Trumptards. Those Trumptards didn't want to build it, exactly like they won't want to scrub CO2 from stacks today, but Federal government pollution rules forced them. Once the scrubber was built, the Trumptards would run the sulfur scrubber when the Federal government was inspecting. But what happened between times? The Trumptards didn't run the scrubber because they didn't think it was needed. Their explanation for spreading sulfur pollution all over Texas was that sulfur was good for growing things. Gardeners add sulfur to the soil.

The Trumptards will use the same justification, CO2 is good for growing things when the time comes to run their CO2 scrubbers, if and when the Federal government makes removing CO2 a rule that all industries must live with.

How could there be Trumptards in Amarillo in 1996, when Trump was going bankrupt in the casino business and cheating his investors? Way back then, the Trumptards were angry poor white trash who hated Democrats, hated the Federal government, hated/cheated on their income taxes, and hated the idea in 1996 that CO2 could change the world's climate. Trumptards have always been with us and will abide long after Trump.

Trump still owes money to contractors who built Taj Mahal casino
Jan 24, 2020 — For the contractors who built the Taj Mahal casino three decades ago, the wounds still fester. One calls Trump "a snake oil salesman.”
https://www.northjersey.com/story/news/columnists/mike-kelly/2020/01/2
4/donald-trump-still-owes-money-to-contractors-who-built-taj-mahal-atlantic-city/4547037002
/

Trump's company tricked investors. Here's how
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/markets/2016/06/24/trumps-company
-tricked-investors-heres-how/86058802
/



The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Tuesday, September 6, 2022 8:52 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Does anybody read Second's fan fic about the character he hopes he is in a parallel universe in 2022?

No?

--------------------------------------------------

Falsus in unum, falsus in omnibus

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Wednesday, September 7, 2022 7:33 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Texas electric grid recommendations are just more crony capitalism costing consumers

Chris Tomlinson, Staff writer
Sep. 7, 2022

The new recommendations for a State Energy Plan are exactly what you’d expect from fossil fuel and traditional energy executives, appointed by politicians backed by fossil fuel executives who only heard invited testimonies from people with fossil fuel sympathies.

Texas should burn more natural gas with traditional, polluting power plants and guarantee incumbent corporations plenty of profit for decades to come, a handpicked committee recommended. Panelists never mention climate change or global warming, demonstrating a complete disregard for the welfare of future generations.

The committee instead promulgates an absolute lie: “The more that power systems rely on wind, solar, and battery storage systems, the greater the risk that a major grid disturbance will cause the grid to cascade into a blackout condition.”

Real world experiences and dozens of studies have proven the opposite. The recommendations show that crony capitalism is thriving in Texas, and an electric grid once considered the most innovative in the world is regressing to benefit the shareholders of a few companies.

Gov. Greg Abbott, Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick and House Speaker Dade Phelan appointed the 12 committee members. All came from oil, natural gas, electricity generation and transmission line companies. The committee did not include a single consumer advocate or climate expert.

Patrick’s appointee to represent the renewable energy industry demonstrated his lack of expertise when he publicly asked whether wind and solar generation were contributing to changes to the earth’s magnetic field.

The correct answer is, “No, are you nuts?”

More at https://web.archive.org/web/20220907112744/https://www.houstonchronicl
e.com/business/columnists/tomlinson/article/Tomlinson-Texas-electric-grid-recommendations-17422197.php


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Wednesday, September 7, 2022 7:00 PM

JAYNEZTOWN

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Wednesday, September 7, 2022 9:18 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Texas electric grid recommendations are just more crony capitalism costing consumers

Chris Tomlinson, Staff writer
Sep. 7, 2022

The new recommendations for a State Energy Plan are exactly what you’d expect from fossil fuel and traditional energy executives, appointed by politicians backed by fossil fuel executives who only heard invited testimonies from people with fossil fuel sympathies.

Texas should burn more natural gas with traditional, polluting power plants and guarantee incumbent corporations plenty of profit for decades to come, a handpicked committee recommended. Panelists never mention climate change or global warming, demonstrating a complete disregard for the welfare of future generations.

The committee instead promulgates an absolute lie: “The more that power systems rely on wind, solar, and battery storage systems, the greater the risk that a major grid disturbance will cause the grid to cascade into a blackout condition.”

Real world experiences and dozens of studies have proven the opposite. The recommendations show that crony capitalism is thriving in Texas, and an electric grid once considered the most innovative in the world is regressing to benefit the shareholders of a few companies.

Oh, like last summer in Germany where the sun didn't shine AND the wind didn't blow? Like that?

Solar power obviously unavailable at night. Solar power and wind power unreliable. Energy storage capacity currently unable to store enough to smooth out the supply when green energy fails (unless they use excess electricity to hydrolyze water to hydrogen and oxygen).

Solar power, wind power, and hydro are useful adjuncts to traditional power and can be used to reduce CO2 emissions. I would argue for hydrogen power (produced from solar energy) provided it can be produced and stored onsite. I would even argue for nuclear power provided we install something less fault-prone than boiling water reactors, and that we figure out what to do with the millions of tons of nuclear waste. But methane's not a bad interim choice. For every molecule of carbon dioxide it produces, it produces two molecules of water. Better than oil (which is more like 1:1) and way better than coal.



But,really... do you think the elite are going to give up jetting around and eating meat, and move their mansions from the water's edge bc they really believe that climate change is upon us?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake


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Wednesday, September 7, 2022 10:23 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Oh, like last summer in Germany where the sun didn't shine AND the wind didn't blow? Like that?

Solar power obviously unavailable at night. Solar power and wind power unreliable. Energy storage capacity currently unable to store enough to smooth out the supply when green energy fails (unless they use excess electricity to hydrolyze water to hydrogen and oxygen).

Solar power, wind power, and hydro are useful adjuncts to traditional power and can be used to reduce CO2 emissions.

Signym, tell Shell Energy that 100% (100%!) Renewable Energy is not what the company should be doing. And that FREE energy to charge your EV at night, every night, will bankrupt Shell. I wonder why Shell would sell plans that will ruin the company? Undoubtedly Signym knows more about Shell's electric business than Shell does.

https://www.shellenergy.com

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Thursday, September 8, 2022 2:23 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Under the Shell Energy brand, we provide innovative, reliable and cleaner energy solutions through a portfolio of gas, power, environmental products and energy efficiency offers to businesses and residential customers.

https://www.shell.com/shellenergy/about.html

Yanno, Musk never made money from the customers of Solar City. Where Solar City REALLY raked in the $ was the $3000 government subsidy for each install. The company in essence owned the panels, pocketed the subsidy, and got the homeowners to pay THEM for the electricty generated.

I dunno about Shell Energy. I know that 100% renewable is NOT their only business. Maybe there's a subsidy or a tax writeoff that lets them at least break even while the other parts of their business are doing well. Whatever it is, they're not making money from their customers by not charging them for electricity, and it's certainly not out of the goodness of their hearts.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake


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Thursday, September 8, 2022 6:45 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Under the Shell Energy brand, we provide innovative, reliable and cleaner energy solutions through a portfolio of gas, power, environmental products and energy efficiency offers to businesses and residential customers.

https://www.shell.com/shellenergy/about.html

Yanno, Musk never made money from the customers of Solar City. Where Solar City REALLY raked in the $ was the $3000 government subsidy for each install. The company in essence owned the panels, pocketed the subsidy, and got the homeowners to pay THEM for the electricty generated.

I dunno about Shell Energy. I know that 100% renewable is NOT their only business. Maybe there's a subsidy or a tax writeoff that lets them at least break even while the other parts of their business are doing well. Whatever it is, they're not making money from their customers by not charging them for electricity, and it's certainly not out of the goodness of their hearts.

Last year I signed up for a 5-year contract with MP2 Energy for 9.5 cents per kilowatt-hour. MP2 was always part of Shell, but it changed its name this year to match its owner and it also changed its price to 16 cents per kilowatt-hour to match the price of fossil fuel-fired electric generation.

I assume Shell Oil's management dropped the boom on MP2's management, telling them that Shell Oil is not in business to save the Earth but its business is to make the maximum profit. Therefore MP2 prices (for Shell Energy) jumped from 9.5 cents to 16 cents over the last 9 months.

Shell makes a profit at 9.5 cents, but it makes a killing at 16 cents per kilowatt-hour. Which price do you think Shell is more likely to charge, Signym?

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Friday, September 9, 2022 5:22 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


More people now work in clean energy than in fossil fuels

Nearly 40 million people worldwide work in jobs related to clean energy, according to a Sept. 8 report from the International Energy Agency. https://www.iea.org/reports/world-energy-employment/overview#abstract

That number represents 56% of total energy sector employment, meaning that, for the first time ever, clean energy jobs outnumber those involved in producing, transporting, and burning fossil fuels.

The clean energy jobs include those upstream, like building solar panels and producing crops for bio-fuels, as well as downstream, like operating wind farms, installing energy efficiency upgrades in buildings, and selling electric vehicles.

The majority shifted during the pandemic, the report says; in 2019, clean energy was just shy of half of the jobs.

Since the pandemic, clean energy has accounted for “virtually all of the growth in energy employment,” the report says. That’s largely due to the opening of large new manufacturing facilities for solar and electric vehicles, especially in China.

In spite of headwinds from rising raw material prices and trade disruptions, the report projects clean energy job growth to steam ahead, adding at least 13 million new jobs by 2030, and more than offsetting the continuing loss of jobs in fossil fuels.

https://qz.com/more-people-now-work-in-clean-energy-than-in-fossil-fue
-1849510159


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Friday, September 9, 2022 7:37 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I'm sorry but... do you have a point, SECOND? First you post that Shell Energy is giving away free electricity. Then you post they're charging beaucoups bucks for it.

So... what's your point, exactly?

*****

BTW I'm all for hydrogen powered whatever. Rockets. Trains even.

But you have to admit that rockets and trains are rather special cases of "mobile sources". Rockets bc they can be fueled immediately prior to their (single, one way) journey, and trains bc they have limited, well-defined routes which justify special infrastructure and are large enough to accommodate special fuel tanks.

"Back in the day" of wood and coal-fired steam engine trains, the trains had a car just for coal and had regular water towers along the route. So something like that has been done before. But you didn't see too many wood-fired cars around.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake


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Friday, September 9, 2022 8:23 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
More people now work in clean energy than in fossil fuels

Nearly 40 million people worldwide work in jobs related to clean energy, according to a Sept. 8 report from the International Energy Agency. https://www.iea.org/reports/world-energy-employment/overview#abstract

That number represents 56% of total energy sector employment, meaning that, for the first time ever, clean energy jobs outnumber those involved in producing, transporting, and burning fossil fuels.



Yeah... That's a real winner.

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=92&t=4

Quote:

In 2021, renewable energy sources accounted for about 12.2% of total U.S. energy consumption and about 20.1% of electricity generation.


Let's put 56% of the payroll on 12% of the product.

And people are supposed to believe that Second runs a business and hasn't managed to run it straight into the ground yet.

Get fucked Leftists.

--------------------------------------------------

Falsus in unum, falsus in omnibus

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Friday, September 9, 2022 10:42 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
I'm sorry but... do you have a point, SECOND? First you post that Shell Energy is giving away free electricity. Then you post they're charging beaucoups bucks for it.

So... what's your point, exactly?

The deal with Shell is perfectly obvious: Shell can get rich selling 100% green energy, just as it got rich selling absolutely dirty energy. The obvious point is that Shell is staying in the energy business and will continue to get rich, and it will sell you any kind of energy you want.

Do you want clean energy? Shell sells you that. Do you want dirty? Shell sells you that. It is your choice to make about how dirty your energy supply will be. The national governments might get involved by telling you what you can buy, but until the government does, it is all your decision based on what energy, clean green or dirty, is cheapest.

On the other hand, most oil and gas companies do not want you to buy green energy because they don't have the brains to sell that. If you buy green energy, most oil and gas companies cannot make any profit from you. What is so hard for you to understand, Signym, about why most oil and gas companies, Exxon-Mobil for the most notorious example, denied that there is such a thing as global climate change? The same companies will lobby governments to not require green energy because that would put the companies into bankruptcy.

Exxon Knew about Climate Change almost 40 years ago
A new investigation shows the oil company understood the science before it became a public issue and spent millions to promote misinformation
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/exxon-knew-about-climate-ch
ange-almost-40-years-ago
/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Friday, September 9, 2022 10:47 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
More people now work in clean energy than in fossil fuels

Nearly 40 million people worldwide work in jobs related to clean energy, according to a Sept. 8 report from the International Energy Agency. https://www.iea.org/reports/world-energy-employment/overview#abstract

That number represents 56% of total energy sector employment, meaning that, for the first time ever, clean energy jobs outnumber those involved in producing, transporting, and burning fossil fuels.



Yeah... That's a real winner.

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=92&t=4

Quote:

In 2021, renewable energy sources accounted for about 12.2% of total U.S. energy consumption and about 20.1% of electricity generation.


Let's put 56% of the payroll on 12% of the product.

And people are supposed to believe that Second runs a business and hasn't managed to run it straight into the ground yet.

Get fucked Leftists.

--------------------------------------------------

Falsus in unum, falsus in omnibus

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Saturday, September 10, 2022 12:00 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Get fucked Leftists.

You didn't have to repeat yourself. . . There is a huge gap in your understanding that is tedious for me to try changing. The fossil fuel industry does NOT require many workers in order to serve 100% of Americans while the green energy industry requires an enormous number of workers to serve a few Americans. The closest analogy is the number of farmers in 1860 compared to farming in 2022. 50% of Americans were farmers long ago and now it is 1%. With the addition of some labor-saving technology, a lot of farmers became unemployed as farmers. The same thing will happen when green energy gets more labor-saving technology. The number of employees will decrease sharply and they will have to go back to work at low paying jobs with McDonald's and Burger King.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Saturday, September 10, 2022 8:44 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Get fucked Leftists.

You didn't have to repeat yourself. . . There is a huge gap in your understanding that is tedious for me to try changing. The fossil fuel industry does NOT require many workers in order to serve 100% of Americans while the green energy industry requires an enormous number of workers to serve a few Americans. The closest analogy is the number of farmers in 1860 compared to farming in 2022. 50% of Americans were farmers long ago and now it is 1%. With the addition of some labor-saving technology, a lot of farmers became unemployed as farmers. The same thing will happen when green energy gets more labor-saving technology. The number of employees will decrease sharply and they will have to go back to work at low paying jobs with McDonald's and Burger King.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two





Labor-saving technology?

How about you get some technology that actually works and still isn't in the stage of plausible but still science fiction?


California had to tell the few people who had coal burning cars not to charge them during the day and everybody else to keep their A/C at 78 degrees just a few weeks ago.

Forget labor-saving technology. Hell... forget that your "clean" energy from the manufacturing of the batteries to the electric that charges them are dirtier than fossil fuels.

How the fuck are you going to power 30 million of these things in one state alone?

--------------------------------------------------

Falsus in unum, falsus in omnibus

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Saturday, September 10, 2022 9:19 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

How the fuck are you going to power 30 million of these things in one state alone?

It is easiest to keep burning gasoline forever because the same old car engines and oil refineries and habits will last forever. Slightly more difficult is to shut down the refineries and build on the same piece of land a chemical factory that makes gasoline directly from the CO2 in the air. Even more difficult is to stop building internal combustion engines for autos and replace the engines with electric motors.

February 9, 2022 -- Stanford engineers create a catalyst that can turn carbon dioxide into gasoline 1,000 times more efficiently
Captured CO2 can be turned into carbon-neutral fuels, but technological advances are needed. In new research, a new catalyst increased the production of long-chain hydrocarbons in chemical reactions by some 1,000 times over existing methods.
https://news.stanford.edu/2022/02/09/turning-carbon-dioxide-gasoline-e
fficiently
/

June 7, 2018 -- This Gasoline Is Made of Carbon Sucked From the Air
A Harvard-affiliated Canadian company is making a liquid fuel that is carbon neutral, and they hope the economics will be in their favor.
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/carbon-engineering-
liquid-fuel-carbon-capture-neutral-science


Your average person will prefer the cheapest solution, which is to keep doing what you have always done. That means no electric cars and no CO2 turned into gasoline.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Saturday, September 10, 2022 1:13 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Get fucked Leftists.

You didn't have to repeat yourself. . . There is a huge gap in your understanding that is tedious for me to try changing. The fossil fuel industry does NOT require many workers in order to serve 100% of Americans while the green energy industry requires an enormous number of workers to serve a few Americans. The closest analogy is the number of farmers in 1860 compared to farming in 2022. 50% of Americans were farmers long ago and now it is 1%. With the addition of some labor-saving technology, a lot of farmers became unemployed as farmers. The same thing will happen when green energy gets more labor-saving technology. The number of employees will decrease sharply and they will have to go back to work at low paying jobs with McDonald's and Burger King.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two





Labor-saving technology?

How about you get some technology that actually works and still isn't in the stage of plausible but still science fiction?


California had to tell the few people who had coal burning cars not to charge them during the day and everybody else to keep their A/C at 78 degrees just a few weeks ago.

Forget labor-saving technology. Hell... forget that your "clean" energy from the manufacturing of the batteries to the electric that charges them are dirtier than fossil fuels.

How the fuck are you going to power 30 million of these things in one state alone?

--------------------------------------------------

Falsus in unum, falsus in omnibus

SIX most of the power generation plants in CA are either natural gas fired boilers or natural gas fired turbines, but MORE energy comes from solar and wind. CA (and NV, NM, AZ) would be the natural choice for solar bc the sun shines most of the time. CA also imports hydro from the NW via a huge DC line called the Pacific DC Intertie.

Anyway, there are NO coal fired plants in CA!

https://www.electricrate.com/data-center/electricity-sources-by-state/
california
/
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake


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Saturday, September 10, 2022 1:25 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:

Anyway, there are NO coal fired plants in CA!

Coal-fired electric cars are a meme. This seems to be a somewhat popular meme concept despite it basically being fake news.

https://www.google.com/search?q=coal+fired+electric+cars+meme

Is Coal-Powered Energy Charging These Electric Cars?
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/coal-powered-electric-cars/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Saturday, September 10, 2022 3:17 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


There are 230 coal fired power plants in the USA that provide electricity to a public grid (not counting any private power plants for specific companies).

15 PA
14 TX, IN (TEXAS???)
12 IL, IA
10 MO, NE
9 WV, KY
8 FL, NC (FLORIDA???)
7 WY
6 CO, MI, ND, OH, OK, LA (COLORADO???)
etc

I expected to see coal fired power in the coal states, but... Texas? Florida? Colorado???

Anyway, if you attempt to implement EVs in the above states, there's a very good chance they will be at least partly coal-fired. So whether EVs are net environmentally positive or not depends on where they're charged. And also grid efficiency, bc whether EVs create more CO2 per mile than efficient gasoline vehicles depends not just in the fuel used but also on such things as grid efficiency and charging efficiency. By my calculation an efficient gasoline powered vehicle and an EV are within a couple of percentage points of each other in terms of efficiency so it doesn't take much to flip the ranking.

If you really want to save on CO2 you would simply ban ginormous gas-guzzlers from sale and switch to methane- powered vehicles. But if you were really serious you would also ban private jets and scale back our military operations drastically, subsidize farmers to increase soil carbon*, manage forests better, improve home energy efficiency, prevent sprawl, and plant a lot of urban trees to reduce heat domes.* And if you wanted to do a little social engineering and boost small family farms you could cap the subsidy at a maximum dollar amount, so that smaller farms would get a higher percentage than larger farms.

Basically, if you're REALLY concerned about climate change, what you need to do is look at the areas of greatest potential reduction with ALL options on the table- no sacred cows, no government giveaways- and also estimate the greatest "bang per buck", usually expressed as $/ton of CO2.

Conservation measures -NOT doing things- NOT allowing private jets and NOT selling gas guzzlers, NOT steaming/flying our military all around the globe, and NOT manufacturing weapons/munitions don't cost anything and probably have the greatest potential reductions. Planting city trees doesn't cost much either, and if you reduce city temps by 10-15F you might save as much on AC as if you embarked on an extensive home renovation program. It requires pretty detailed and region-specific calculations with ALL options on the table. Some heavily forested low-population areas for example might benefit more from forest management while older populated areas might benefit from from better grid efficiency. There's no "one size fits all" solution.


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake


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Sunday, September 11, 2022 12:52 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Since I'm not getting any argument on my post, I guess we all agree.

So either we turn the discusion to ACTUAL options, with estimates of potetial costs and possible reductions.... yanno, for

regenerative farming, for instance, the potential absorption of CO2 per acre and the subsidy you're willing to pay, where it stacks up in the ranking of $/ton of CO2 and impact (total tons of CO2) and other potential benefits and costs (improved tilth, improved water quality due to less erosion, fewer weeds, higher seed costs, more difficultly with planting) or

scaled back military - number of flights and CO2 saved per flight (FWIW that fuel consumption is damn hard to find! but the dollar cost is zero) number of ship-miles and diesel saved (again, hard to find! but the dollar cost is zero)

THERE ARE NO MAGIC SOLUTIONS! IT'S NOT LIKE WINDPOWER! OR SOLAR! IS GOING TO SAVE US ALL


OR we turn the discussion as to whether this is even necessary

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake


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Tuesday, September 13, 2022 7:00 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

THERE ARE NO MAGIC SOLUTIONS! IT'S NOT LIKE WINDPOWER! OR SOLAR! IS GOING TO SAVE US ALL

You might be mistaken.

Switching to renewable energy could save trillions - study

Switching from fossil fuels to renewable energy could save the world as much as $12tn (£10.2tn) by 2050, an Oxford University study says.

The report said it was wrong and pessimistic to claim that moving quickly towards cleaner energy sources was expensive.

The researchers say that going green now makes economic sense because of the falling cost of renewables.

"Even if you're a climate denier, you should be on board with what we're advocating," Prof Doyne Farmer from the Institute for New Economic Thinking at the Oxford Martin School told BBC News.

"Our central conclusion is that we should go full speed ahead with the green energy transition because it's going to save us money," he said.
More at https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-62892013

Empirically grounded technology forecasts and the energy transition
Published:September 13, 2022

• Future energy system costs are estimated for three different scenarios
• A rapid green energy transition will likely result in trillions of net savings
• Energy models should be updated to reflect high probability of low-cost renewables

More at https://www.cell.com/joule/fulltext/S2542-4351(22)00410-X

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Tuesday, September 13, 2022 10:02 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


SECOND you have got to stop looking at things in terms of money. Just bc we've gotten more cost-efficient at something doesn't mean it saves energy/CO2. Stop being a money-grubber, start being an engineer, and keep your eye on the actual problem you're trying to solve instead of some conflated factor.

A MERE FIVE YEARS AGO...

Quote:

Solar Panels Near Break-Even Point
A new study examines the question of when photovoltaic modules settle their 'carbon debt' and become clean energy producers

It takes a lot of energy to produce a solar panel. Much of the electricity used to melt the silicon used in PV modules comes from generating plants that burn fossil fuels — and that has skeptics doubting solar panels are a plus for the environment



https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/article/solar-panels-near-break-e
ven-point
. When we installed solar panels I assumed that they were at, or past, the CO2 breakeven point. OTOH, solar panels, like EV cars, are probably only marginally better than their fossil fuel competitors in terms of CO2 emissions (per KWh or per mile driven).

I wouldn't assume that they're light years ahead unless I see some credible data.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake


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Tuesday, September 13, 2022 10:50 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Looks like Argonne did the EV v gasoline breakeven point for me.

Tesla 3 v Toyota Corolla (33 mpg)

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/lifetime-carbon-
emissions-electric-vehicles-vs-gasoline-cars-2021-06-29
/


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake


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Wednesday, September 14, 2022 7:25 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
SECOND you have got to stop looking at things in terms of money. Just bc we've gotten more cost-efficient at something doesn't mean it saves energy/CO2. Stop being a money-grubber, start being an engineer, and keep your eye on the actual problem you're trying to solve instead of some conflated factor.

A MERE FIVE YEARS AGO...

Quote:

Solar Panels Near Break-Even Point
A new study examines the question of when photovoltaic modules settle their 'carbon debt' and become clean energy producers

It takes a lot of energy to produce a solar panel. Much of the electricity used to melt the silicon used in PV modules comes from generating plants that burn fossil fuels — and that has skeptics doubting solar panels are a plus for the environment



https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/article/solar-panels-near-break-e
ven-point
. When we installed solar panels I assumed that they were at, or past, the CO2 breakeven point. OTOH, solar panels, like EV cars, are probably only marginally better than their fossil fuel competitors in terms of CO2 emissions (per KWh or per mile driven).

I wouldn't assume that they're light years ahead unless I see some credible data.

They are aware that building PV panels will emit CO2 and they put a price on those emissions.

We want to emphasize that our results indicate that a rapid green energy transition is likely to be beneficial, even if climate change were not a problem. When climate change is taken into account, the benefits of the Fast Transition become overwhelming. A common simplified method for estimating economic damages due to climate change is to apply a social cost of carbon (SCC) to emissions. The range of proposed values is vast, but just as an example, at a discount rate of 5%, assuming SCC values in the range $30-300/tC02 (rising at 3% per year) yields total expected Fast Transition savings, up to 2070, of $31-$255 trillion. At a lower discount rate of 1.4%, the range of expected savings is $88-$775 trillion. Thus, the benefits of the Fast Transition are likely much larger than the energy system cost savings evaluated in this study.

That is from page 19 of the 193-page long report.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Wednesday, September 14, 2022 7:55 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Looks like Argonne did the EV v gasoline breakeven point for me.

Tesla 3 v Toyota Corolla (33 mpg)

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/lifetime-carbon-
emissions-electric-vehicles-vs-gasoline-cars-2021-06-29
/

Based on a series of assumptions, the data showed that a Tesla Model 3 in the United States, for example, would need to be driven for 13,500 miles (21,725 km) before it does less harm to the environment than a Toyota Corolla. Lifetime vehicle miles traveled: 173,151.

The beauty of a new green energy system, for a Capitalist, is that it is built right next to the old dirty energy system. Both systems are up and running and gouging all the customers by setting prices as high as the market will bear. The sci-fiction TV show The Expanse showed how that works with an air market. Everybody needs air in outer space and the air price goes up month after month so that the workers in outer space can never save money. The air company takes all their cash. Breathing air companies don't exist, yet, but green energy companies can do the same as oil and gas companies have done and the results will be just as beautiful as on The Expanse -- War in the asteroid belt against the owners (who live on Earth) of the breathing air companies. The Belters, as they are called on the Expanse, were dropping asteroids onto Earth to show their displeasure with the wonderful and profitable capitalist system. When the green energy system gets up and running, there will be many Earthers, just like Belters, who will be angry at the cost of energy, just as Belters were angry at the cost of air. Don't take deep breaths. It is too expensive.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Thursday, September 15, 2022 4:29 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


The belief that the green energy transition will be expensive has been a major driver of the ineffective response to climate change for the past 40 years. This pessimism is at odds with past technological cost improvement trends and risks locking humanity into an expensive and dangerous energy future. While arguments for a rapid green transition cite benefits such as the avoidance of climate damages, reduced air pollution, and lower energy price volatility (Document S1 section “Additional benefits from the Fast Transition”), these benefits are often contrasted against discussions about the associated costs of the transition. Our analysis suggests that such trade-offs are unlikely to exist: a greener, healthier, and safer global energy system is also likely to be cheaper. Updating expectations to better align with historical evidence could fundamentally change the debate about climate policy and dramatically accelerate progress to decarbonize energy systems around the world.

https://www.cell.com/joule/fulltext/S2542-4351(22)00410-X#secsectitle0
065


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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