REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

How many years before China is No. 1?

POSTED BY: TRAINEEALTERNATE
UPDATED: Thursday, August 31, 2023 12:16
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Tuesday, January 4, 2022 6:44 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



Quote:

... Taiwan, certainly outshines mainland China economically.


I hope you realize that many of Taiwan's basics - water, power, all transport, finance, as well as other major industries, are all government-owned. And Taiwan does NOT guarantee 'free speech'.

It's not the shining anti-communist, anti-socialist example you think it is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_state-owned_enterprises_of_Taiwa
n

https://www.arrow.org.my/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/AFC_Right-to-Freed
om-of-Speech-Expression.pdf

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Wednesday, January 5, 2022 1:05 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:...

China's most significant bar to becoming THE biggest per capita economy is energy (not just oil) and the next biggest is water. Unless they can solve those significant factors they will be numerically bigger than the USA in just five years or so, but per capita they will still have a long way to go. But to the other nations in the region (Japan, Koreas, Indonesia etc) China alread IS the largest economy.


------------------------
Please don't think they give a shit.

Just as an addendum... it looks as if China is going to solve its energy problem with the Power of Siberia I and Power of Siberia II natgas pipelines from Russia. The Power of Siberia I pipeline is already operational and draws from Arctic deposits. The Power of Siberia II has been just signed, but will be drawing from natgas deposits formerly slated for Europe, since the EU has been such a dick about SouthStream an NordStreamII and natgas contracts in general. So PoS II is directly competing with th EU for natgas.

Good luck on that, EU!

China IS #1, in terms of purchasing power parity, and is indisputably the #1 manufacturer/producer in the world. China has also raised 850 million people out of extreme poverty in the past decade, and feat not equalled by any other nation in history.

However, they have tremendous social, ideological, and political problems that they made for themselves, having to do with past policies which were successful but created their own set of problems.

In practical terms, the deal that the Chinese government seems to have with its people is: Don't make a fuss, and your life will improve.

The sole focus was on "development", and China hitched its wagon to the west during the Deng Xiapoing era, inviting western investment and selling to western markets ... the Japanese model ... first by making and selling cheap walmart junk and iPhone and Nike shoes, and then moving up the value-scale.

However, this distorted the Chinese economy ... geared as it was to exporting to western markets... which meant that China's production for internal markets was never properly developed. It also meant that China was tied to western currency, having built up huge reserves of USD and US Treasuries.

In addition, China played around with financialism. Yes, the People's Bank of China (PBOC) is the official lender, but there are also plenty of "shadow banks" which fueled all kinds of speculative bubbles in everything from agricultural commodities and aluminum to stocks and real estate. In addition, since the only tax-collecting entity in China is the central government, regional governments were forced to issue bonds in order to fund their pet/vanity projects. Rife with corruption, malinvestment, and leading to a great "wealth gap".

This also leads to an ethical rot in the population, the same problem as in the USA where greed rules the day. Putin is very popular in china, more so than Xi Jinping. I think the Chinese yearn for some sort of unifying feeling. Once youve gotten rid of confucianism, what do you replace it with? Nationalism?

China is now trying to continue its growth by directing its tremendous productive power towards the "One Belt, One Road" project. This would be the equivalent of the USA's Marshall Plan after WWII (but on a much bigger scale) which directed USA industry towards re-industrializing Germany. But so far it seems a somewhat chaotic effort, flailing in different directions without a clear goal, whose only purpose seems to be soaking up China's labor power but without an eventual payoff. (Bc once the infrstructure is in place, and the surrounding economies are developing on their own... what then?)

China's biggest concern seems to be employing its billion-some-odd people. Keeping them busy so they don't make trouble. China needs a social and ethical re-structure that can peacefully attain equilibrium and not depend on endless growth. Maybe "make China a garden" to redirect effort internally.

Anyway, China a - diplomatically- a bull in a china shop. (Forgive the pun) They are so insular they don't know how to deal with other nations except when it comes to making business deals, and even then you have to be pretty careful bc China is a sharp dealer.

So ... already #1 is many ways. Let's see if they learn to equilibrate and get along with others.





-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


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Thursday, January 6, 2022 9:21 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:

Quote:

... Taiwan, certainly outshines mainland China economically.


I hope you realize that many of Taiwan's basics - water, power, all transport, finance, as well as other major industries, are all government-owned. And Taiwan does NOT guarantee 'free speech'.

It's not the shining anti-communist, anti-socialist example you think it is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_state-owned_enterprises_of_Taiwa
n

https://www.arrow.org.my/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/AFC_Right-to-Freed
om-of-Speech-Expression.pdf

Taiwan was controlled by Chiang Kai-shek followed by Chiang Kai-shek's son until 1988. If either had been as incompetent at ruling as had Chairman Mao, Taiwan would be behind, rather than ahead, of China economically.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan#Martial_law_era_(1949%E2%80%93198
7
)

It is very unsurprising that Taiwan's government remains in control of a large share of the economy. That is the way the Chiangs wanted it. Not surprising that China's government remains in control of a large share of the Chinese economy. That is the way Mao wanted it. Not surprising that the richest 1% of Americans remain in control of the American economy. That is the way Ronald Reagan and Donald Trump wanted it. Obviously, that is not what Reagan and Trump said they wanted, but that's what they did want. The lower 99% can only hope that the top 1% don't crash the American economy. In China, the only hope is that Xi Jinping doesn't crash the Chinese economy as Chairman Mao once did.

A September 2017 study by the Federal Reserve reported that the top 1% owned 38.5% of the country's wealth in 2016. According to a June 2017 report by the Boston Consulting Group, around 70% of the nation's wealth will be in the hands of millionaires and billionaires by 2021. (Yes, that happened as predicted.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_inequality_in_the_United_States

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Thursday, January 6, 2022 9:28 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Don't pretend you don't love Mao.

You cheer when Democrats try to enforce any of his playbook here in the states.

--------------------------------------------------

Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."

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Thursday, January 6, 2022 11:13 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Don't pretend you don't love Mao.

You cheer when Democrats try to enforce any of his playbook here in the states.

I am old enough to remember the news reports of Chairman Mao's Great Leap Forward. Mao was also the driving force behind the Cultural Revolution. Trump tried to combine The Great Leap Forward and The Cultural Revolution into one Make America Great Again, which flopped and will continue flopping around until Trump is dead. The big difference between the GOP and the Communist Party is that Commies learned what does not work, while the Republican Party learned nothing from MAGA. If history is any guide, there will be more MAGA until Trump is dead. It took Chairman Mao's death to end the Cultural Revolution.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Revolution

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Thursday, January 6, 2022 11:58 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

SECOND: ... Taiwan, certainly outshines mainland China economically.

KIKI: I hope you realize that many of Taiwan's basics - water, power, all transport, finance, as well as other major industries, are all government-owned. And Taiwan does NOT guarantee 'free speech'.
It's not the shining anti-communist, anti-socialist example you think it is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_state-owned_enterprises_of_Taiwa
n

https://www.arrow.org.my/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/AFC_Right-to-Freed
om-of-Speech-Expression.pdf


SECOND: blah blah blah... blah blah blah....
Not surprising that the richest 1% of Americans remain in control of the American economy. That is the way Ronald Reagan and Donald Trump Bill Clinton and Barack Obama wanted it.

don't tell me you STILL believe that this is all the Reublican's fault, after watching Clinton and Obama ass-kiss banks and financialists?!

The only difference is that the GOP supported the industrial capitalists, while the DNC learned to love the money-printers. Both elites, but the DNC hitched its wagon to the more destructive parasite. The RICHEST elites are bankers, financialists, speculators and tech. That's where you'll find the DNC worming its way up numerous assholes.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


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Thursday, January 6, 2022 1:53 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

don't tell me you STILL believe that this is all the Reublican's fault, after watching Clinton and Obama ass-kiss banks and financialists?!

The only difference is that the GOP supported the industrial capitalists, while the DNC learned to love the money-printers. Both elites, but the DNC hitched its wagon to the more destructive parasite. The RICHEST elites are bankers, financialists, speculators and tech. That's where you'll find the DNC worming its way up numerous assholes.

I was there, Signym. You were doing whatever worthless paperwork for boondoggles that kept you occupied. You know nothing about what the top 1% are doing but you keep pretending you are some kind of knowledgeable expert. Again, YOU KNOW NOTHING. You know no one of importance. In the amount of time you have left to live, you have no chance of knowing more. The only path left for your inflated ego is to smear everybody, both the guilty of the Republican Party and the Democrats who didn't do what you insinuate.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Thursday, January 6, 2022 2:06 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

You know nothing about what the top 1% are doing but you keep pretending you are some kind of knowledgeable expert. Again, YOU KNOW NOTHING. You know no one of importance. In the amount of time you have left to live, you have no chance of knowing more.
Oh, so you think I've spent my whole life all a-flutter with the hope of "knowing someone important"?

ARE YOU FUCKING NUTS?

I feel as if I've gotten to know you quite well, and if you're at all representative, I'm sure I don't need to meet more like you. I have known many people, tho, who are all easily tenX the person you are, and they have enriched my life considerably.

*****

So, Bill Clinton didn't let loose commodities speculation with his "Modernization" act, kill Glass Steagall, sign onto NAFTA and further China's accession into the WTO, and Barack Obama didn't pay off each and every failing bank and all of their chained speculative assets, instead of making homeowners whole? (Which would have been far cheaper and more effective.)

YOU KNOW NOTHING, SECOND. And the reason why you know nothing is because your view of reality is distorted by hate and lies. You have a deep-seated grotch against Republicans and an equally biased view of Dems. (Maybe you should meet some important Dems. Get to see the "real them". Broaden your hatreds a little.)

You have an inflated sense of your own self worth, but you're a twisted lying fuck who hates America and Americans. You've said so yourself.

Why should I trust a single thing you post, when you lie to everyone here and- worse- you lie to yourself. Constantly. That's gotta interfere with your sense of reality, doesn't it?

Nobody is saying the GOP doesn't rely on a segment of the elite. But the DNC does too, just as much if not worse. At least industrialists can claim to be producing something. The only things financialists produce are debt, poverty, and dependence.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


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Sunday, January 9, 2022 8:13 PM

JAYNEZTOWN


It's not over yet but the USA needs to wake up

its possible Europe and Japan have already lost too much ground
Russia is having hissy fits and blowing up satellites creating clouds of space debris

The Chinese lander makes first onsite detection of water on moon
https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/939534
China Intends To Construct The World's First Thorium Fuelled Based Waterless Nuclear Power Plant
https://energycentral.com/news/china-intends-construct-worlds-first-th
orium-fuelled-based-waterless-nuclear-power-plant

Asteroids, the moon and Mars: Space missions to look forward to in 2022
https://phys.org/news/2022-01-asteroids-moon-mars-space-missions.html



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Sunday, January 9, 2022 8:15 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



How many years before China is No. 1?

Can we count negative years?

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Friday, March 11, 2022 7:12 PM

JAYNEZTOWN


Everything is flux now

What will the Cern time machine say

4 point 5 years maybe, 4 years and 6 months

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Friday, March 11, 2022 7:45 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


China is in no great shape right now either. Make no mistake about that.

--------------------------------------------------

Me: "Remember Covid?"

Useless Idiots: "What's Covid, durr? Russia, Ukraine, Putin, NATO *drool*. DURRRR!!!!"

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Saturday, March 19, 2022 12:38 PM

JAYNEZTOWN


Stuttering Psaki plays clean-up on Biden’s call with Chinese leader over ‘consequences’ for helping Putin

https://www.bizpacreview.com/2022/03/19/stuttering-psaki-plays-clean-u
p-on-bidens-call-with-chinese-leader-over-consequences-for-helping-putin-1214540
/

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Friday, May 13, 2022 9:20 PM

JAYNEZTOWN


When they finally approve 10K in student loan reduction in time for the 2024 election, it will be

http://f2bbs.com/thread/461026

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Sunday, June 5, 2022 8:00 AM

JAYNEZTOWN


Joe Biden’s new go-to tool to fight inflation? The deficit.
https://www.vox.com/23153687/joe-biden-interested-deficit-inflation-ec
onomy


Gibs?

Stacey Abrams, Raphael Warnock want Biden to forgive student debt
https://nypost.com/2022/06/03/stacey-abrams-raphael-warnock-want-biden
-to-forgive-student-debt
/

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Sunday, June 5, 2022 8:36 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by JAYNEZTOWN:
Joe Biden’s new go-to tool to fight inflation? The deficit.
https://www.vox.com/23153687/joe-biden-interested-deficit-inflation-ec
onomy




Quote:

Many words have been written about just how much deficits matter, but economists who spoke to Vox said that they matter more in times of high inflation.

It’s true that deficits are decreasing: The $2.8 trillion deficit in 2021 was lower than the record $3.1 trillion deficit from 2020, when Donald Trump was president. And the projected 2022 deficit of $1 trillion will be an even steeper fall — something for which the president is taking credit. But that’s largely a product of the big spending programs from 2020 and 2021 tapping out, according to many economic experts. Biden’s signature spending package, the American Rescue Plan, worsened the deficit to a degree — shrinking a projected $870 billion deficit reduction to the $360 billion decline that actually happened from 2021 to 2022.

“I’ve heard the president and his administration say over and over again, things like ‘we have reduced the deficit because of our actions.’ That is only true in a very backward sense,” Marc Goldwein, a senior vice president at the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget, a fiscally conservative group, told Vox. “The deficit is coming down year over year overall despite their actions.”



You know things are bad bad when freakin' Vox and I are in agreement.

You're fucked, Joe*.

--------------------------------------------------

Me: "Remember Covid?"

Useless Idiots: "What's Covid, durr? Russia, Ukraine, Putin, NATO *drool*. DURRRR!!!!"

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Wednesday, June 15, 2022 6:06 AM

JAYNEZTOWN


China's plans to go to the Moon, Mars and beyond
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-61511546

It has big ambitions for Tiangong and hopes it will replace the International Space Station (ISS), which is due to be decommissioned in 2031.
Chinese astronauts are excluded from the ISS because US law bans its space agency, Nasa, from sharing its data with China.
China's plans to reach the Moon and Mars
China's ambitions do not end there.
A few years from now it wants to take samples from asteroids near the Earth.
By 2030, it aims to have put its first astronauts on the Moon, and to have sent probes to collect samples from Mars and Jupiter.

China reportedly found massive amounts of uranium at a depth of 10,000 feet
https://interestingengineering.com/china-reportedly-found-uranium

China’s ‘Particle Beam Cannon’ Is a Nuclear-Power Breakthrough
https://www.defenseone.com/ideas/2022/06/chinas-particle-beam-cannon-n
uclear-power-breakthrough/368082
/

China's deep space exploration laboratory starts operation
https://english.news.cn/20220614/94479fa06af04ad1a596256b2570f1c0/c.ht
ml


China Says It's 3D Printing a 590-Foot Hydroelectric Dam With Zero Human Labor
https://futurism.com/china-3d-print-hydroelectric-dam

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Friday, July 1, 2022 7:25 AM

JAYNEZTOWN

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Saturday, August 12, 2023 1:27 PM

JAYNEZTOWN


Looting, BLM Antifa fighting Burning, Drugs on Streets, Murdering each other for Sports Shoes....

maybe more of a sign of USA's decay



Others might also Rise,
however Russia has been stupid enough to kill its own in Ukraine

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Thursday, August 31, 2023 7:48 AM

JAYNEZTOWN


Communism sucks but the new socialists moved almost a Billion out of Poverty

Perhaps a joke or parody?

Things You CAN Do in China (You CAN'T Do in America)


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Thursday, August 31, 2023 12:16 PM

THG


Quote:

Originally posted by TraineeAlternate:
Just asking a few opinions: How many years before China's economy, military, technology, and culture becomes powerful enough to trump that of the United States? What happens after this; more importantly, can it be stopped?

Chinese culture is very prevalent in Firefly, almost as much as Western-American culture. Even shipping crates bear as many US flags as Chinese stars. This is obviously a prediction of US-Chinese cooperation or conflict as almost-equals sometime in the future.

"That's why I never kiss them on the mouth."
"When do I get to get sexed up?!"
"This is my most favorite-est gun..."





Yeah, that would be never.

T


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