REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Browncoats-I NEED YOUR HELP! (school polling project!)

POSTED BY: RIVERGODDESS
UPDATED: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 11:45
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 5613
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Sunday, February 26, 2006 3:37 PM

RIVERGODDESS


OK, so I'm a big procrastinator. Sue me. What I need from my fellow browncoats is a simple answer to the following question:
"Do you generally favor or oppose affirmative action programs for women and minorities?"
1)Favor
2)Oppose
3)Unsure
I was supposed to be trying to do this poll at school, but who has time at school to actually be productive?
It would be amazingly shiny if I could get a fair amount of posters. Thanks in advance!
~Sara

*~*~
Summer's response to Nathan getting his very own action figure:
"I tried to pull his head off."

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 3:57 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by RiverGoddess:
OK, so I'm a big procrastinator. Sue me. What I need from my fellow browncoats is a simple answer to the following question:
"Do you generally favor or oppose affirmative action programs for women and minorities?"
1)Favor
2)Oppose
3)Unsure
I was supposed to be trying to do this poll at school, but who has time at school to actually be productive?
It would be amazingly shiny if I could get a fair amount of posters. Thanks in advance!
~Sara

*~*~
Summer's response to Nathan getting his very own action figure:
"I tried to pull his head off."



2) Oppose

Simple enough for ya ? I'd offer an explanation, but since you didn't ask for one, this is my response.

Good luck!


People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 4:07 PM

SIGMANUNKI


2) Oppose

----
"We're in a giant car heading into a brick wall at 100 miles/hr and everybody's arguing about where they want to sit."
-David Suzuki

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 4:10 PM

JADEHAND


2) Oppose

I generally prefer the most qualified person get the job. No care as to Sex, race, creed, or clique. Long as they know their job and do it to the best of their ability.

Visit WWW.Marillion.Com for a better way to live
"He's seen too much of life And there's no going back.
The loneliness calls him, And the edge which must be sharpened,
He's losing it. And he knows.
But there's a fighter in his mind and his body's tough
The years have been unkind, but kind enough." -Ocean Cloud (Marbles) -Marillion



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Sunday, February 26, 2006 4:15 PM

KHYRON


Quote:

Originally posted by Jadehand:
2) Oppose

I generally prefer the most qualified person get the job. No care as to Sex, race, creed, or clique. Long as they know their job and do it to the best of their ability.



Ditto.

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 4:19 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL


Oppose.

Also just FYI: this is not really a good substitute for an actual poll. You can’t assume that the answers are unaffected by previous responses.


Affirmative action is racism. If racism was wrong when it is against African Americans, then why is it right when it is against Caucasian?


“The basic problem is that a racist past cannot be undone through more racism. Race-conscious programs betray Martin Luther King's dream of a color-blind community, and the heightened racial sensitivity they cause is a source of acrimony and tension instead of healing.” http://www.stanfordalumni.org/news/magazine/1996/sepoct/articles/again
st.html





Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 4:29 PM

GINOBIFFARONI


2) Oppose

I think any program whose aim is to help minoritys should be directed towards a specific geographical location rather than a racial or gender demographic...

For example, programs that attempt to bring more jobs or better educational opportunitys to poorer communitys.




" Over and in, last call for sin
While everyone's lost, the battle is won
With all these things that I've done "

The Killers

http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/killers/allthesethingsthativedone.html


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Sunday, February 26, 2006 4:31 PM

DARKJESTER


Me - Unsure. I'd need more information. Aiming programs toward a specific race or gender seems to be too broad a stroke.



MAL "You only gotta scare him."
JAYNE "Pain is scary..."

http://www.fireflytalk.com - Big Damn Podcast

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 4:33 PM

ARCADIA


Quote:

Originally posted by RiverGoddess:
"Do you generally favor or oppose affirmative action programs for women and minorities?"
1)Favor
2)Oppose
3)Unsure



Unsure.

Yes, it takes jobs/scholarships/college acceptances away from some qualified applicents. On the other hand, it has helped women and minorities in the US (little known fact: the primary benefactors of affirmative action and welfare are white women).

I don't feel that I know enough about it to definatively support or oppose Affirmative action. Maybe we don't need it as much in the professional areana, but I think it is important in the academic areana - i.e. college applications. I am going to U of I. The majority of the black/hispanic kids here are from Chicago, many of whom lived in lower income districts and did not get the kind of education that I got in the suburbs. I don't think that people should be denied a good college degree because the income taxes in their area were lower than the income taxes in mine. But... yeah, it is a complicated issue.

"Objects in Space"
River: It's just an object. It doesn't mean what you think...

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 4:47 PM

RIVERGODDESS


Thanks for the help so far, and I apologize, the question in general should be more clear, but we have to ask a specific question from pollingreport.com that has the same question asked over a period of time. Otherwise I would have it worded better, with a better explanation. Also noted, it it a bit hard to vote when you have seen previous results. Write what you truly believe in. I, nor anyone else, should be your voice or be the one to judge. I just need honesty.
*smacks self for forgetting to poll her track team*
*~*~
Summer's response to Nathan getting his very own action figure:
"I tried to pull his head off."

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 4:55 PM

GORBISHUN


Quote:

Originally posted by RiverGoddess:
"Do you generally favor or oppose affirmative action programs for women and minorities?"
1)Favor
2)Oppose
3)Unsure


Unsure.

That's just because I don't really have enough information. But generally, from what I do know, I would be apposed to the idea.

Edit: It does seem to fit in with the racial fanaticism of our day and age; everyone must pay the consequences of an inadequate employee, because I don't want to get sued for being racist!

Then again sometimes there is an unfair situation.

«°-:-°»
Also... I can kill you with my brain.

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 5:36 PM

DEWRASTLER


Oppose.

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 6:10 PM

DREAMTROVE


Oppose.

I think that if there is unequal representation is most likely shows unequal qualification, and affirmative action becomes the patch which creates a good appearance but doesn't actually solve the problem. Such efforts should be directed towards producing qualified applicants instead.

African Americans make up a small % of scientists in this country, but also a small % of science degrees. Compared to what has been expended to implement affirmative action, very little has been expended to do things such as equalize education funding, scholarships and grants in order to produce an adequate number of African Americans with science degrees.

Ultimately, society has to be one of free choice, in which the best choice is ultimately to hire the most qualitfied applicant for the job, and anything that forces a hire of a less qualified applicant will foster resentment, and ultimately could be an instigator of an increase in racial bias.

I know all my posts are too long, but here's an anecdote. We had a quota instigated at my college while I was there, and went from about 1% black to 5% black. The 1% were people who tested the same as the while and asian students, the 5% were oppertunity program students, some of whom had tested drastically lower, and were not at all able to benefit from college classes, lacking basic underlying skills. This created an attitude which I noticed start to spead which went 'black students are dumb' which hadn't existed before. I can see this is a dangerous added caveat to any such program in a work environment. If you have 5 qualified engineers, but force or encourage the hire of 25, then you might end up creating the unfair and inaccurate attitude in the private sector of 'black engineers don't know their job.' This energy really needs to be applied at the other end, helping to create more qualified black engineers or whatever the inequality is.

For years, the democrats in NY pushed this idea, but never attempted to rectify the fact that black kids got only 58% the funding per child that white kids got. Now a republican mayor of NY has fixed that in the city, but our republican governor has failed to do that in the rest of the state.

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 7:05 PM

KHYRON


You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.
- Abraham Lincoln

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 7:10 PM

MONGO


oppose

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 7:12 PM

HIXIE129


Do you generally favor or oppose affirmative action programs for women and minorities?"
1)Favor

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 8:40 PM

FLETCH2


I think your study question is missing a couple of pieces of information, namely the sex and ethnicity of the responder.

As an outsider and on the few times this question has come up I've found the following to be true at least here in Texas.

White males seem to generally oppose it, either on basic principle or from the belief that any injustices Affirmative Action was designed to combat have been overcome.

White females seem to go either way, though I suspect it would split onlong socio/economic lines.

Black males seem for it, irrespective of social/economic status, even if they themselves became successfull without it. Didn't Colin Powell even say he was for it?

Like I said, personal experience from canteen/bar talk here in Texas.

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 8:59 PM

KHYRON


Quote:

Originally posted by Fletch2:
I think your study question is missing a couple of pieces of information, namely the sex and ethnicity of the responder.

As an outsider and on the few times this question has come up I've found the following to be true at least here in Texas.

White males seem to generally oppose it, either on basic principle or from the belief that any injustices Affirmative Action was designed to combat have been overcome.

White females seem to go either way, though I suspect it would split onlong socio/economic lines.

Black males seem for it, irrespective of social/economic status, even if they themselves became successfull without it. Didn't Colin Powell even say he was for it?

Like I said, personal experience from canteen/bar talk here in Texas.



I think that would make a far more interesting study. "How does socio-economic background, gender and ethnicity determine one's inclination towards affirmative action?".

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 11:24 PM

RIVERGODDESS


Indeed, that would make a fascinating study. Unfortunately my school project is very broad, but hey, it's just a small project, and I turn it in today. I REALLY REALLY appreciate the help and input from everyone. I love this community!

I'd really like to talk about this issue more with others and my classmates. My parents, when I polled them separately, said the opposite. My mom opposes it (she's white), but my dad favors it (mexican and native american). My mom, like Fletch2 posted about white females, wasn't leaning to any particular side. She knows that technically, I'm classified as a minority with my hispanic heritage, so I have some of the affirmative action opportunities. I asked her "Yes, but *in general*, assuming you don't know me, what do you think?" and she said that one should get in to places, like college, soley on merit.

I believe this too, but again, I'm torn, because I could benefit from these opportunities, but I might feel insulted simply if I was accepted somewhere only because of my background. I didn't work my tail off just to be accepted somewhere because I'm a hispanic female.

Interesting, interesting stuff. It's nice to hear input from others from either side.

Thanks again, fellow Browncoats! It's nice to have a good group of people to bounce ideas off of on both real issues and Firefly-related stuff!

*~*~
Summer's response to Nathan getting his very own action figure:
"I tried to pull his head off."

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 11:32 PM

DINKY


3) Unsure.

"Th3re !s n0 spo0Ne." -The Matricks

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 11:41 PM

SHINYGEEKET


favor

"We will rule over all this land, and we will call it... 'This Land'."

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Monday, February 27, 2006 2:15 AM

STARSONG


oppose, for all the reasons above.

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Monday, February 27, 2006 3:39 AM

CITIZEN


Oppose.

It's if you employ a White Male because he's a white male instead of the best choice for the job that's affirmative action for White Males, though we call it discrimination against Women and/or minority groups. I really don't see how discrimination is a good thing depending on who you're discriminating against...



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
You should never give powers to a leader you like that you’d hate to have given to a leader you fear

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Monday, February 27, 2006 4:49 AM

CARTOON


Oppose.

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Monday, February 27, 2006 6:08 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by RiverGoddess:
OK, so I'm a big procrastinator. Sue me. What I need from my fellow browncoats is a simple answer to the following question:
"Do you generally favor or oppose affirmative action programs for women and minorities?"
1)Favor
2)Oppose
3)Unsure


I oppose.

However, if I were you I'd start with a predetermined number in favor of a particular result, before you ask any real people. Thus if you get 10 "Favor" and 10 "Oppose" but you built in "Favor" with five free votes, then its 15-10 in Favor. See if your teacher goes for it, that should teach you all you need to know about Affirmative Action.

H

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Monday, February 27, 2006 1:05 PM

ODDNESS2HER


3) Unsure.

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Monday, February 27, 2006 3:54 PM

ENGINEANGEL


3) unsure


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Monday, February 27, 2006 3:55 PM

MONKEYTAIL


3) Unsure

- Judge for yourself its believability, and then try to tell yourself, wherever you may be, it couldn't happen here. - Carl Kolchak

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Monday, February 27, 2006 4:04 PM

CAUSAL


Oppose

________________________________________________________________________
I wish I had a magical wish-granting plank.

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Monday, February 27, 2006 9:08 PM

ALGUS


Oppose - but if you're interested, look into something called 'economic affirmative action' which I do in fact favor.

I had to do a speech in support of affirmative action, my professor felt it would be good for my personal growth or some nonsense like that, and I learned enough about the subject to know I definately opposed it, but economic affirmative action is quite interesting and merits further inspection.

---
Where's the KABOOM?! There was supposed to be an earth-shattering kaboom! *sigh* Delays...delays...

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Monday, February 27, 2006 9:15 PM

SOUPCATCHER


Quote:

Originally posted by RiverGoddess:
"Do you generally favor or oppose affirmative action programs for women and minorities?"


Favor

And that answer won't change until the day when the probability of an American baby's success in life doesn't change depending on ethnicity or gender. I don't expect to see that day in my lifetime. White male privilege is pervasive in our society. And, as in the case of most types of privilege, those who benefit the most from the unfair advantages a) don't see it, b) don't want to see it c) don't want to lose any of those privileges and d) will fight like hell to protect their advantage.

Try this little experiment. Ask people if they think their life would have been less hard if they had been born a different ethnicity or gender(or if they wish they had been born a different ethnicity or gender). And I'm talking about an honest thought-out response. None of those, "Hell yeah I wish I was born a woman! I'd never leave my bedroom," type of responses. I have yet to find a white male who wishes they were born black or who think their life would have been easier in that instance (and similiarly with respect to gender). When I ask other minorities the response I get is more in line with my own thinking, "Duh." It's self-evident that the cards are stacked a certain way. So, in my mind, any attempt to reshuffle the deck is a worthy endeavor. To borrow a worn phrase, "It's not about leveling the playing field, it's about making sure the players are on the same field and playing with the same equipment."

Let me try playing around with a simile (or analogy, or metaphor, whatever). You have two groups of people shooting at targets. One is shooting from 20 yards, the other from 500 yards. For the most part, the group shooting from 20 yards is going to have better results. Every so often you'll get someone hitting the bullseye from 500 yards. Those are the superstars who are going to succeed no matter what the odds. Now you introduce some affirmative action. Move one group up to 470 yards and the other group back to 50 yards. The closer group is going to complain like hell because things just got a lot harder for them, "It's unfair." Well yeah, it is, but not the way they think. It just got a little bit less unfair.

When all the breaks are going your way, of course you're going to fight like crazy to keep things the way they are.


* Since you don't mention economic factors I'll limit my remarks to ethnicity and gender. Just factor in that it's better to be born rich than poor in our society and you'll get a feel for my comments on that aspect. eta: To stretch the example... If you're born rich you get to shoot with a cannon instead of a rifle.

* edited to fix my spelling of privilege. And also to add a link for those who are interested. A good entry level article on the topic of white privilege is by Peggy McIntosh. You can find it all over the internet so I'll just pull a link out at random: http://ted.coe.wayne.edu/ele3600/mcintosh.html

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Monday, February 27, 2006 10:32 PM

PIRATEJENNY


1.) Favor

why??... because of white male privilage, which is the biggest affirmative action program around.

I Think Peggy Mcintosh does and excellent job of explaining Cultrated white and male privilage.Affirmitive action is like an oxymoron to begin with;if the system wasn't already unfair there wouldn't be a need for such programs.


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Tuesday, February 28, 2006 3:30 AM

SERGEANTX


Oppose



SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Tuesday, February 28, 2006 3:53 AM

TUBETECHNOLOGY


Generally Favor.

Sometimes the pendulum needs a push.

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Tuesday, February 28, 2006 5:19 AM

DREAMTROVE


I just tallied them up. Here's where it stands:

16 Opposed.
5 In Favor.
7 Unsure.

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Tuesday, February 28, 2006 5:35 AM

DAVESHAYNE


Quote:

Originally posted by dreamtrove:
I just tallied them up. Here's where it stands:

16 Opposed.
5 In Favor.
7 Unsure.



1 more in favor

David

"A lot of people are asking me, you know, what exactly is Firefly? It's a tv show you morons!" - Joss Whedon

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Tuesday, February 28, 2006 8:58 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Favor.

Somehow, nobody seems to mind that the wealthy get in easier than everybody else, even if they are grossly unqualified for the slot. What is that except affirmative action for the rich?

Unless or until we have a truly money/ sex/ color-blind educational and opportunity system, I'm in favor of what might loosely be called "affirmative action". But that ALSO depends on how you implement affirmative action, since I'm definitely not in favor of hiring or admitting unqualified people.

Since we get hundreds of applicants and winnow them down with written tests and personal interviews, it makes no difference whether they score 83 or 79 at the end of the process. At that level we are really looking at qualitative differences: this one has marginally stronger technical bakcground, that one has better organization skills, and the third one has somewhat better interpersonal skills. In my experience, when I'm looking at the top five people, they ALL can do the job very well. The nice thing is, I can throw a dart and pick a winner.

Given that the top condidates are equally qualified, I would give preference to under-represented categories. That, BTW, is not how our organization hires people.



---------------------------------
Free as in freedom, not beer.

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Tuesday, February 28, 2006 9:10 AM

BROWNSPARROW


Unsure.

I am against affirmative action in principle, however, it has been very beneficial to me in the past (woman in a field of study strongly dominated by men).

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Tuesday, February 28, 2006 9:15 AM

JAYNESBUNKWOMAN


oppose - the best qualified should get the job regardless of race, gender etc.

I'll be in Jaynes bunk

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Tuesday, February 28, 2006 9:23 AM

MILFORD


Favor, but only because you used the word "generally."

Remember, that but for one trifling exception, the entire universe is made up of others.- Oliver Wendall Holmes

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Tuesday, February 28, 2006 11:45 AM

DAVEC5


Quote:

Originally posted by RiverGoddess:
1)Favor



1 more in Favor column..

(i've wittnessed bigotry.....damned ugly)

...and we all shine on...

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