REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Is This Legal?

POSTED BY: SOULOFSERENITY
UPDATED: Friday, April 7, 2006 12:12
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Thursday, April 6, 2006 3:55 AM

SOULOFSERENITY

The Man They Call Soul...


So I need some advice. Call me gullible for believing this, but can someone read this letter (I got it in the mail) and tell me if this is legal and if it has a potential of working?

Quote:


Greetings: I am a retired attorney. A few years ago, a man came to me with a letter. He asked me to verify the fact this was legal to do. I told him I would review it and get back to him. When I read the letter that my client brought me, I thought it was some “off-the-wall” idea to make money. A week and a half later we met in my office to discuss the issue. I told him the letter he originally brought to me was not 100% legal. My client then asked me to alter it to make it perfectly legal. I asked him to make one small change to the letter.

I was still curious about the letter, so he explained to me how it works. I thought it seemed like a long shot, so I decided against participating. Before my client left, I asked him to keep me updated on his results. About two months later, he called me to tell me he had received over $800,000 in cash. I didn’t believe him, so he asked me to try this idea and find out for myself. I thought about it for a couple of days and decided I really didn’t have anything to lose, so I asked him for a copy of the letter. I followed the instructions exactly, mailed 200 copies, and sure enough the money started coming in! It arrived slowly at first, but after about three weeks, I was getting more mail than I could open in one day. After about three months, the money stopped coming. I kept a precise record of the earnings, and in the end, it totaled $978,493! I could hardly believe it. I met my friend for lunch to find out exactly how it worked. He told me that there are quite a few similar letters around, but this one is different because there are six names at the end of the letter, not five like some others. This fact results in your name being in far more returns. The other fact was the help I gave him, to make sure the whole thing was legal, since no one wants to take the risk of doing something illegal.

By now you are surely curious to know what small changes to make. If you sent a letter like this one out, in order to be completely legal, you must sell something in order to receive a dollar in return. So when you send a dollar to each of these names on the list, you must include these words, “Please put me on your mailing list” and include your name and address. This is the key to the program. The item you receive for the dollar you send to the six people below the letter.

At the time I first tried this idea, I was earning a good living as a lawyer. Every one in the legal profession will tell you that there is a lot of stress that comes with the job. I told myself if this thing worked out, I would retire from my practice and play golf. I decided to try the letter again, but this time I sent 500 copies. Three months later, I totaled $2, 341, 178!

Here are a few reasons a person might give for not trying the program:

>Some people think they can never make a lot of money with something simple.
>Some are afraid they will be ridiculed for trying.
>Some dream of large sums of money, but do nothing to actually achieve it.
>Some are plain lazy.
>Some are afraid of losing their investment. They think this program was designed to
beat them out of a few dollars. The system works if you try it. But you must follow the
simple instructions exactly, and in less than three months, you will receive $800,000
GUARANTEED!
>Keep what you are doing to yourself for a while. Many will tell you it won’t work and
will try to talk you out of you dreams. Let them know of your success after it works.
Instructions:

1. Immediately send each of the six people on the list at the end of this letter $1.00.
wrap the dollar bill in a note saying “Please add me to your mailing list” and
include your name and address.

2. Remove the name next to the #1 on the list and move the rest of the names up one position (#2 becomes #1, #3 becomes #2 etc.) then place your name in the #6 position.

3. When you have completed the instructions, take this letter to the copy shop and make at least 200 copies. The more you send the better the results.

4. Get a list of 200 names from a mailing list company. The following company does not “over-use” their list. They promise that each name on the peel and stick labels/list has recently requested moneymaking information with in the last 45 days.

Quality Services: 18635 N. 35th Ave. Ste. 110, Phoenix, AR 85027
Order Desk: 1-800-659-6030
150 names- $28.00 200 names- $37.00 250 names- $46.00
300 names- $56.00 500 names- $93.00 1,000 names- $133.00

5. While waiting for your mailing lists to arrive, place the letters in the envelopes and stamp them. Do put a return address on the envelopes.

6. When the list arrives, it will have pre-glued labels or “peel and stick”. Put them on the envelopes and drop them in the mail. Within 90 day, you will receive $800,000 in cash.

7. Keep a copy of this letter so you can use it a second time. Mailing it out again in six months, but mail it to the addresses you receive with each dollar. It will work better the second time.

Note: This service is 100% legal- Refer to Title 18, 1302 and 1342 of the U.S. Postal & lottery laws.

How does it work? When you send out 200 letters, it is estimated that at least 15 people will respond and send you $1.00 ($15.00). Those 15 will mail 200 letters each & 225 people will send $1.00 ($225.00). Those 225 people will mail letters each and 3,375 people will send you $1.00 ($3,375.00). Those 3,375 people will mail out 200 letters each and 50,675 people will send you $1.00 ($50,675.00). Those 50,675 people will mail out 200 letters and 759,385 people will send you $1.00 ($759,385.00). At this point your name-drops off the list, but so far you have received $813,615.00.

Letters from participants in this program:

My name is David Rhode. In 1992, my car was repossessed and bill collectors were hounding me. I was laid off and my unemployment ran out. In October of 1992, I received a letter telling me how to earn $800,000 any time I wanted. Of course, I was skeptical, but because o was so desperate and virtually had nothing to lose, I gave it a try. In January 1993, my family went on a 10-day cruise. The next month, I bought a brand new Mercedes with cash! I am currently building a home in Virginia and will never have to work again. This money program really works perfectly every time. I have never failed to receive less than $500,000. This is a legitimate moneymaking opportunity. It does not require you to sell anything or come in contact with people. And best of all, you only leave the house to mail the letters. If you have always believed that someday you would get that lucky break, then simply follow the instructions and make your dreams come true. David Rhodes, Norfolk, VA.

Six months ago, I received this letter and ignored it. Five more came within a period of and I ignored them also. I was tempted, but I was convinced that they were a hoax. After three weeks of deliberating, I decided to give it a try (not expecting much.) Two weeks went by and nothing happened. The fourth week was unbelievable! I cant say that I received $800,000, but I ended up with over $400,000. For the first time in years, I am debt free. I will be doing it again, only this time starting with 500 name. I strongly recommended that you follow the instruction outlines in the letter.

P.S. When your money begins to come in give 10% to your favorite charity with joyful spirits and share the good fortune.

1. Kevin O’Neil 370 Fraser LN. Ventura, CA 93001

2. Henry Broadnax 5655 Shelley CT. Baton Rouge, LA 70805

3. Ruth Henry 3801 W. Oklahoma Ave, Apt. 1 Milwaukee, WI 53215

4. Sharon Welch 4980 Galen ST. Lake Oswego, OR 97035

5. John Manning 6049 Main ST. Mayslnding, NJ 08330

6. D. Sents 4028 Oneida ST. New Hartford, NY 13413




______________________

Soul, Security Chief of the Sereni-Tree, Captain of Destiny.

Mantichorus: "So is there a reason they call you 'Soul'?"
Soul (after a long pause): "Yeah. Because I have one."

http://havenofsouls.livejournal.com/

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Thursday, April 6, 2006 4:07 AM

GROUNDED


Quote:

Originally posted by SoulOfSerenity:
Call me gullible for believing this



You're gullible

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Thursday, April 6, 2006 4:36 AM

MSCKAREN


It's a pyramid scheme and it's illegal in Florida.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Appears they've cancelled the show and we're still here. What does that make us?"
"Big damn junkies, Sir!"
"Ain't we just."
http://karenallover.blogspot.com/

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Thursday, April 6, 2006 4:41 AM

NUCLEARDAY


Well, you know the saying: "If it looks to good to be true..." Couldn't point out exactly wherein the scam lies, but I'd bet there's one in there somewhere :)

________________________________________________
You can take my hope when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.

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Thursday, April 6, 2006 4:42 AM

FOLLOWMAL



SoulofSerenity,

I agree with the others, this is illegal.

My Grandma had an old saying and I always apply it to situations like this.. .and believe me because I'm a business woman I get lots of these things and approached by lots of folks about things like this.... she said..

"If it seems to good to be true, it's not true!"

My Grandma's advice has never steered me wrong.

ETA: Nuclearday and I have heard the same old sayings...

" You hold. Hold til I get back." Mal

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Thursday, April 6, 2006 4:42 AM

DATALESS


It's leagel but then again back out of you drive way is illeagel. They can take your money all they want, and they really don't have to give you anything back. I used to work for a company that sent letters to old people asking them to send $1,000 and one person out of the run would get $12,000. They would sent these letter to just about every elderly person in this country and they would do it every 3 months. It's leagel but just plain mean to pray on soneone that doesn't know any better. I would not get involved with anyone just asking for money. I have recieved a ton of emails lately saying the same thing most from other countries so our laws don't even apply. Here an expample of where our laws don't apply: Gambling is illeagal in New York. If I open a place where people come to play poker I would get arrested, but I can turn on my computer and play anytime I want. They aren't run out of Atlantic City Or Las Vegas becuase if they were there could be trouble. These Gambling Sites which advertive on TV as Non-gambling sites take you to other sites that allow you to gamble for real money. PartyPoker.net takes you to PartyPoker.com. So I think you better know what your getting into before you send anything especially money.

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Thursday, April 6, 2006 4:52 AM

EMBERS


I believe that pyramid schemes and chain letters are illegal in every state in the USA



**********************************************
watch the R. Tam Session vids: http://www.hittarivertam.nu/
and buy the 'Serenity' comics published by Dark Horse
have you checked out this thread?:
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=15816

and listen to 'I'm Going To See Serenity':
http://music.podshow.com/music/listeners/artistdetails.php?BandHash=a0
c814e1229742ce77ed4497cbf4631c

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Thursday, April 6, 2006 5:33 AM

IMALEAF


I do what would best be referred to as online counseling for people who has suffered emotional stress from these types of scams. It is most often young people who couldn’t afford college, got pregnant young, in debt up to their ears, or are generally lazy, but at least 40% are just some average person who resist. Most people lose their savings and dig a deeper hole for themselves by falling for these scams.

The most popular scam at the moment is the mailing one trying to get people who can’t afford cars, have kids, or just want to stay home. The way it works is you get money by getter other people started in the program you are in. It is really very silly, mailing list are harder to come by since no one wants to be on one. While the mailing ones don’t tend to be as dangerous or time consuming I deal with a lot of people who just can’t give up on the hope of fast money. Lots of people fall back into it after starting it; saying that this one is different that the one before. It is a viscous cycle that doesn’t stop once you start. I have met lots of people who tried and found places to live for plenty that failed but I have never met anyone who got more that they spent.

The second most popular and run by men masquerading as business owners. The most powerful is DSMAX (Direct Sales to the MAX). This one send people emotionally over the edge, and I’ve people lose wives, and husbands because of their obsession with succeeding. They send people out to sell crap and have them working on a commission basis only. It is competitive, and demanding. People find themselves spending more time at work than anywhere else. The “owner” is great at giving speeches but if you stay long enough he will repeat them. They do family exercises and make everyone feel welcome, a way of lolling people in. DSMAX sales everything from candles to Child safety tapes and they ruin lives.

Lots of people get out of these scams before it is too late but many, many people get out and dive into another one thinking it is different some how. It isn’t. But some don’t get out and lose families, cars, houses, and it is really sad.

I won’t tell you don’t because in my experience that just causes people to hold on tighter to the dream and get hurt more. Money, can be replace once someone loses that, but the emotional damage is hard to explain and hard to deal with. That’s why I do what I do for free; they don’t need to spend any more money after all.
Here is a website were believers and none believers talk and argue. This is a decision only you can make.
http://groups.msn.com/DSMAXTheAftermath


~~River: Bible's broken. Contradictions, false logics. Doesn't make sense.~~

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Thursday, April 6, 2006 5:53 AM

KUANGZHEDE


The legality of this is seriously in question and as that guy has transmitted funds across state lines, it is probably now a Federal Crime. Not to mention the fact that this is highly unethical. Hope he avoids a "pound you in the ass" Federal prison sentence. that guy


You Could Be Prosecuted:
Sometimes posters claim that these schemes are completely legal, claiming they are mailing list or recipe services. These posters may even cite title 18, sections 1302, 1341, 1342, and 1343 of the "Postal Lottery Laws." These sections are part of the U.S. Code. I'm sure that none of these people have actually read them, because they do not authorize pyramid schemes. In fact, these are the very laws that make pyramid schemes illegal. (Take a minute to read 18 USC 1302, 1341, 1342, and 1343 for yourself.)

They may also claim that their e-mails are legal under "S. 1618" or "H.R. 3113." These were bills in the U.S. Congress that failed to become law. They have no legal effect.

Pyramid schemes have long been illegal when conducted by mail in the United States or Canada. The same laws apply to Internet chain letters if the mails are used at any point in the scheme.

The latest twist in these schemes is to claim to be selling something, such as reports, mailing lists, or recipes. The U.S. Postal Service warns:

Do not be fooled if the chain letter is used to sell inexpensive reports on credit, mail order sales, mailing lists, or other topics. The primary purpose is to take your money, not to sell information. "Selling" a product does not ensure legality.
[A couple of ideas for Americans wishing to report pyramid schemes: If the e-mail asks you to send money through the mail, you may report it using the U.S. Postal Inspection Service Mail Fraud Complaint Form, e-mail fraud@uspis.gov, or report it via snail mail to

Postal Inspector
c/o Postmaster
Your City, Your State, Your Zip



Kuang Zhe De



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Thursday, April 6, 2006 6:00 AM

IMALEAF


I have already posted but I wanted to clarify something. This is not a pyramid scheme. Pyramid schemes are much more involved and usually consist of someone “owning” a business and you being in contact with others. This is a Chain Scheme or a Chain Letter Scheme. While they are both illegal and dangerously addictive, they are very different and attract different types of people, but they both end with someone not having money they did.

~~River: Bible's broken. Contradictions, false logics. Doesn't make sense.~~

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Thursday, April 6, 2006 6:05 AM

SOULOFSERENITY

The Man They Call Soul...


Quote:

Originally posted by KuangZheDe:
The legality of this is seriously in question and as you have transmitted funds across state lines, it is probably now a Federal Crime. Not to mention the fact that this is highly unethical. Hope you avoid a "pound you in the ass" Federal prison sentence.



Okay, let me clear something up, because I'm now just a bit offended:

I have not posted this letter to get people to fall for this. Anyone on this site that knows me knows I am respectable person, and I don't pull crap like that. I haven't done anything with this letter yet. All I wanted was some opinions from people that I hold in high respect about the legitimacy of this. That's all. I wanted advice, not condemnation.

______________________

Soul, Security Chief of the Sereni-Tree, Captain of Destiny.

Mantichorus: "So is there a reason they call you 'Soul'?"
Soul (after a long pause): "Yeah. Because I have one."

http://havenofsouls.livejournal.com/

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Thursday, April 6, 2006 6:07 AM

KUANGZHEDE


yeah that was my mistake, I apologize and realized what i did immediatly and edited it, my bad

Kuang Zhe De



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Thursday, April 6, 2006 6:12 AM

SOULOFSERENITY

The Man They Call Soul...


Quote:

Originally posted by KuangZheDe:
yeah that was my mistake, I apologize and realized what i did immediatly and edited it, my bad



Heh. Thanks. No worries. This letter is going to get filed in the circular file can now...

______________________

Soul, Security Chief of the Sereni-Tree, Captain of Destiny.

Mantichorus: "So is there a reason they call you 'Soul'?"
Soul (after a long pause): "Yeah. Because I have one."

http://havenofsouls.livejournal.com/

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Thursday, April 6, 2006 6:19 AM

HEB


I did this with chocolate when I was about 10, I got 2 chocolate bars when I was supposed to get 36. (Plus they were only freddos).

There needs to be a huge/impossible number of people to become involved in the scheme after you for each person to get 800 000 dollars when you are only sending 6 dollars each. Pretty quickly you run out of people who want to take part.

...................
Well, my sister's a ship... we had a
complicated childhood
.................
I wear the cheese. It does not wear me.

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Thursday, April 6, 2006 4:21 PM

MISSTRESSAHARA


I remember getting similiar things in my MSN mail,I delete them.

Yup Serenity, bag that letter. As to the DSMAX Leaf, I actually did that. It's posted as Marketing and played up as a real job.

I remember the first time I saw the ad in the wanted section, I didn't know it was sales, and I never knew I'd be going out with boxes of crap to sell to anyone who'd listen. Anyone who knows me could tell you I'm not a great salespreson. I feel like I'm acting and tense up and fail miserably. But they push for the hard sell, don't offer two, you won't make money selling two, make deals and go for the close. It was scary and intimidating, but I learned a lot.

One of the things they tell you is to say these are the last ones left, after this there aren't anymore to buy so if your interested you better buy now. We don't tell them that there's a warehouse full of this very limited crap.

And let me tell you, it's hard enough lugging boxes of this stuff down the street trying to get people to buy and not look pathetic, but doing it in high tempetures, or worse, rainy days. I had dropped one of my boxes in a puddle and it almost made me cry, but I kept at it because I'm notorious for quitting jobs that seem too hard and I didn't want to dissapoint my family.

And the bosses are, I found out to my chagrin, very much like a Jekel and Hyde. My employer was great at giving the motivational speeches, Your all sellers, your all great, your going to go out there and make money, I believe in you.

NOTE: I realized later that the Pyramid Scheme is alive and well here, because for every item you sell the one above you gets a commission, the one above them gets a commission and so forth. So it was no wonder he was so gung-ho to have us push, he was getting a percentage of all our sales. The person who was training me (2 of them actually, young colledge kids, like Leaf said, who wanted an easier way to make money) told me right to my face that if I didn't meet my quota and get the bell rung (that's to show I had gotten the needed amount to make my first commission, I kid you not. Apparantly in this biz there is a quota to make, otherwise all that work you did slaving and selling amounts to bubkis. But they still make money. Fancy that.)

Anyhoo, if I didn't meet it no prob, they watched out for each other and helped me meet it by selling the items for me and letting me take the credit. I was surprised and a little frightened, what if the boss found out, wouldn't he be mad? Nope, they said it was something they all did to help new people, and he'd done it himself. He would'nt be mad. WRONG.

I did it for a week, I tried, I really did, I was even getting a feel for selling. But I take rejection personnaly (which is why I don't do sales or telemarketing) and it was starting to get to me. That, and the motivational meetings we had before we went out. Can we say "cult creepy"?

So I went to the boss, told him I'm sorry, I tried but the job wasn't for me. That's where Hyde came in and that jovial genial persona turned ugly, and I gotta tell you, I was scared. Bosses may sometimes be frighteneing, but this guy SCARED me.

Suddenly he went on about how dissapointed he was in me, how he gave me a chance when I promised to give him 120%, how he believed in me and how I let him down, then he brought up the items my two trainers sold for me in order to meet the quota and how he didn't like cheaters in his force and how he let it slip by because he thought I'd make up for it and..... He basically was telling me to my face I was a lying, lazy such and such and he was disgusted with me. If you saw his face you'd see, there was disgust. Freaked me out, and confused the hell out of me. I didn't think someones personality could change in so few seconds. I defended myself and tried to tell him it wasn't my idea, and he said he'd look into it but in the end he said they were my items for me to sell. I then mentioned that someone said he'd done the same thing to support his trainee and he said, to my face, HE would never do something so dishonest. Bastard.

Then he made my leaving a sure thing, that and never working for such a scheme again. "Get out, you dissapointed me. We don't want lyers or cheaters working here. Get your things and leave." At that point I was glad to go. Anything was better than that. And I made so little money. You know he even argued with the amount of my paycheck because the last few pieces of crap were sold by the other drones? In the end he came around and gave it to me. A hundred and a little dollars. *whoohoo* Finally I can give up this life of crime. Worst part I had to wait around for him to get me the cash. Oh yes, they don't use cheques... *ding ding ding* Red flag.

Now when I see people on the street with a box of items to sell (winter spring summer and fall, poor babies.) and they come up to me I tell them I did that same job and walk away. Or I tell a brief summation of my experience and tell them to RUN!

*woosh* Sorry to go on about this. Maybe my experience will stop someone from going through what I did. It's what I learned from that job*cough*scam* If they tell you it's easy money and no experience necessary...... They're lying. As I've learned in my lifetime, nothings easy, and if your looking for it, it aint out there.

Wow, I think I'd gotten a little long-winded.

If I'm a bitch, then life just got interesting

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Thursday, April 6, 2006 4:58 PM

AFTERGLOW


It's better for everyone in humanity if you stay out of such a scheme. I would recommend you contact the Better Business Bureau and report the scheme. They're online at www.bbb.org
These folks keep tabs on shady business practices and can help build cases against fraudlent schemes that prey on nice people.
No contact goes unnoticed and there's also a lot of great consumer information there. Want to find out if a lending or debt consolidation company is running a palms up operation? They're a great source to go to.

This public service announcement brought to you by the Coalition of Browncoats Who Don't Want Other Browncoats to Lose Their Cashy Money to a Bunch of

Hope this helps.

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Friday, April 7, 2006 3:56 AM

KUANGZHEDE


Better Business Bureau is a good place ot start. When I first got of college, I ran into the same job and these souless scum sucking dirt bags put on a pretty face. I was selling products but the fact was that I was being exploited, and the company was asking me to exploit people I knew, neighbors, and the like. The problem with reporting companies like this, is that when under the gun, these sons of bitches just change their name. While eventually it is tracked and reported again, it is a vicious cycle of these bastards always staying one step ahead of "appearing" to be ethical. Thats why I currently working on an off shore company and email address called www.break.their.kneecaps.com (not a real site, yet . The goal, of course, is to outsource local "Jaynes" in your area, for a small fee, to beat the living hell out these asses.

Kuang Zhe De



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Friday, April 7, 2006 6:34 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by SoulOfSerenity:
So I need some advice. Call me gullible for believing this,


As a lawyer let me give you some advise.

If it seems too good to be true, don't be a sucker.

You can't get something for nothing.

You get what you pay for.

You reap what you sow.

Don't count your chickens until the cows come in.

These are not great legal maxims. Its called common sense.

H

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Friday, April 7, 2006 6:49 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


One dollar each, stamps, envelopes, photocopying, gasoline, risk of car crash, risk of traffic tickets, hours of time, paper cuts... sounds like an expensive investment to participate in chain letters. Plus the possibility of attorney fees and criminal penalties, including imprisonment.

Quote:

Ponzi scheme.
Charles A. Ponzi (ca. 1882-1949), Italian-born American swindler.
an investment swindle in which early investors are paid with sums obtained from later ones in order to create the illusion of profitability.
-Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of Law ©1996
http://dictionary.lp.findlaw.com

Ponzi scheme.
A fraudulent investment scheme in which money contributed by later investers generates artificially high dividends for the original invetors, whose example attracts even larger investments. Money from the new investors is used directly to repay or pay interest to old investors, usually without any opeartion or revenue-producing activity other than the continual raising of new funds. This scheme takes its name from Charles Ponzi, who in the late 1920s was convicted for fraudulent schemes he conducted in Boston. PYRAMID SCHEME.
-Blacks Law Dictionary - 7th Ed

pyramid scheme.
A property-distribution scheme in which a participant pays for the chance to receivecompensation for introducing new persons to the scheme, as well as when those new persons themselves introduce participants. Pyramid schemes are illegal in most states. Also termed endless-chain scheme, chain-referral scheme, multilevel distribution program, pyramid distribution plan.
-Blacks Law Dictionary - 7th Ed



It's a fraudulent Ponzi Scheme, just like Social Security, income tax, property tax, Amway and MLM (the subcontract "training" part - retail sales to non-members are ok), all insurance companies, all banks, all churches, Wall Street, and pension schemes - especially govt pensions. Greedy suckers and gamblers make good slaves.

Quote:

scheme.
1. A systematic plan; a connected or orderly arrangement, especially of related concepts; legislative scheme. 2. An artful plot or plan, usually to deceive others; a scheme to defraud creditors.
-Blacks Law Dictionary - 7th Ed


When I lived in England, the British Govt and British media ALWAYS referred to govt programs as "SCHEMES". At least they were honest about their dishonesty.

Quote:

fraud.
1 a: any act, expression, omission, or concealment calculated to deceive another to his or her disadvantage
specif
: a misrepresentation or concealment with reference to some fact material to a transaction that is made with knowledge of its falsity or in reckless disregard of its truth or falsity and with the intent to deceive another and that is reasonably relied on by the other who is injured thereby
-Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of Law ©1996

actual fraud.
: fraud committed with the actual intent to deceive and thereby injure another
(called also fraud in fact).
-Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of Law ©1996

constructive fraud.
conduct that is considered fraud under the law despite the absence of an intent to deceive because it has the same consequences as an actual fraud would have and it is against public interests (as because of the violation of a public or private trust or confidence, the breach of a fiduciary duty, or the use of undue influence).
-Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of Law ©1996

mail fraud.
: fraud committed by use of the postal service esp. as described in title 18 section 1341 of the U.S. Code.
-Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of Law ©1996



So you could be arrested and prosecuted for federal mail fraud, despite your ignorance of the law. Even for local letters. Never mind that the "US Post Office" is a PRIVATE corporation - just ask the postal MANAGERS and they will confess this fact. This would be a valid legal defense to alleged mail fraud, but I've not checked if it's ever been decided at an appellate level.

Quote:

intrinsic fraud.
: fraud (as by the use of false or forged documents, false claims, or perjured testimony) that deceives the trier of fact and results in a judgment in favor of the party perpetrating the fraud.
-Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of Law ©1996

extrinsic fraud.
: fraud (as that involved in making a false offer of compromise) that induces one not to present a case in court or deprives one of the opportunity to be heard
also
: fraud that is not involved in the actual issues presented to a court and that prevents a full and fair hearing
(called also collateral fraud)
-Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of Law ©1996


Extrinsic fraud is the crime that Gangsta Govt perps millions of times every year in Traffic Courts. This fraud cons the sheeple into "paying traffic tickets" (bogus parking tickets, bogus Robocop Spy Cam tickets, and most other traffic tickets), ie, "pleading guilty" to "criminal misdemeanors". Some states fessed up and admit traffic tickets are CIVIL, but only because they want to cheat people out of a jury of peers, pissed off about their own traffic tickets and lookin for payback.

These fraudulent frivolous lawsuits (in need of tort reform) lack proper service of process (personal service without duress), or violate Constitutional Equal Protection doctrine (if govt employees can ignore laws without prosecution then the law is void), or fraudulently misrepresent actual Rules of Court as Criminal Rules of Procedure, when they are in fact Civil Rules of Procedure for alleged breach of "voluntary" civil driver license contract (signed under duress). Every US citizen has a God-given Constitutionally guaranteed Natural Right to travel - just like 30-million illegal aliens are allowed by the US Govt and all state govts in USA today.

Chain letters aren't the only scheme you need to avoid.


"You can either watch TV or you can make TV. Two roads diverged in a wood, and I took the road less traveled by and they CANCELLED MY FRIKKIN' SHOW. I totally shoulda took the road that had all those people on it. Damn!"
—Joss the Boss

FIREFLY SERENITY PILOT MUSIC VIDEO (VERSION 2)
Tangerine Dream - Thief Soundtrack: Confrontation
http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2006/03/8912.php

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Friday, April 7, 2006 7:21 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Using the US mail for a Ponzi (pyramid) scheme is illegal at the Federal level and prolly in your state too. Check this out.
Quote:

A deliberate effort is made, in many cases, to confuse prospective victims with regard to the distinction between a legitimate “multi-level marketing” (MLM) scheme, and an illegitimate pyramid scheme. I'm no fan of MLM; I regard even “legitimate” MLM schemes as ethically questionable at best. But there is a vital distinction. The important distinction is this: With a legitimate MLM, you have a real product, that is of significant value in and of itself. Most of your profit comes from the sale of this product to people who will use this product according to its own value and usefulness, and not just try to sell it to someone below them. Though MLM encourages you to build a “downline”, so that you can make some profit by taking a cut of the sales made by those below you, you do not need to recruit even a single person below you in the pyramid in order to profit; you can profit by selling the product itself, even to people who have no interest in joining the MLM. In those pyramid schemes which try to pass themselves off as MLM, your “product” is something that has very little inherent value, if any at all, beyond the requirement that one must buy it from you in order to join your “downline”.

http://members.impulse.net/~thebob/Pyramid.html

---------------------------------
Free as in freedom, not beer.

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Friday, April 7, 2006 7:51 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by piratenews:
Every US citizen has a God-given Constitutionally guaranteed Natural Right to travel


Nobody's stopping you. You can walk as long and as far as your feet will carry you. But if you want to drive...I'll need to see a liscense and proof of insurance.

H

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Friday, April 7, 2006 9:30 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:

Originally posted by piratenews:
Every US citizen has a God-given Constitutionally guaranteed Natural Right to travel


Nobody's stopping you. You can walk as long and as far as your feet will carry you. But if you want to drive...I'll need to see a liscense and proof of insurance.

H



In Tennessee, insurance is only required by statute AFTER a person crashes a car, THEN fails to pay for any financial damages. But Gangsta Govt makes massive profits off this scam. So do insurance rackets, where insurance CEOs routinely pay themselves personal salaries of $100-million/year or more. Warren Buffet owns GEICO - Govt Employees Insurance Company. He's reportedly the 2 richest person in USA, with net worth of 25-billion. (Buffet is a Jewish homosexual child molester, according to million-dollar trial testimony by witnesses for Senator John DeCamp. Buffet hid in the bunker with Jr Bush on 9/11/2001, while "coincidentally" playing golf with WTC CEOs at Strategic Air Command HQ in Omaha Nebraska, on the morning of 9/11. Buffet owns NetJets, owner of the bizjet shadowing United Airlines Flight 93 that was shot down on 9/11. Buffet held the, er, hand of Nazi gay porn star Arnold Schwarzennegger, on their trip together to Jewish Lord Rothschild's palace in England, for permission to win governor of the California colony for the German British Empire.)

http://images.scotsman.com/2002/09/25/2509ARNB.JPG
Schwarzenegger flanked by Warren Buffet, left, and Lord Jacob Rothschild, at stately Waddesdon Manor. But has the actor set his sights on a house of a whiter hue?
http://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=869&id=1063282002

The current expert on the Right to Travel is Carl Miller, a professional ex-serial killer employed by Gangsta Govt. His audiotapes detail this successful argument in court. I'm sure Gangsta Govt has poured massive resources into attempts to shut down his legitimate citation of US Supreme Court cases. Do a search on www.Google.com to find transcripts and MP3 files on Miller's lectures. Miller is EXPERT at oral argument of memorized case citations, which is the hardest part of being a "trial lawyer". No matter how good a person's written arguements are, appeals courts ONLY read the oral transcript. Judges and prosecutors know this, so they routinely interrupt defendants, and refuse to allow oral arguments in "their" courts, to subvert the transcript on appeal. Most pro se's don't know how to make an Offer of Proof (how to tell a judge and prosecutor to sit down and shut up). If that doesn't work, prosecutors and judges often extort the court reporters to purjur themselves, to censor the transcripts.

Quote:

VIDEO DOWNLOAD: Institute on the Constitution
The 2004 Libertarian Presidential Candidate, Michael Badnarik, attorney at law, teaches his famous class about the Constitution. If you don't know the difference between a right and a privilege, this is a must see! Is the right to travel by driving an automobile a privilege or a right?
www.archive.org/details/Michael_Badnarik



If driver licenses really were mandatory, then why can ANY person "practice law without a license", which is allegedly a criminal misdemeanor, too. It's called "Power of Attorney-In-Fact". POA IS SO POWERFUL, THAT NO "LICENSED LAWYER" IS ALLOWED TO "PRACTICE LAW" IN ANY COURT, UNTIL AFTER HE GETS A POA SIGNED BY HIS OR HER CLIENT. THE POA IS THE REAL "LICENSE TO PRACTICE LAW". Law school students routinely represent defendants and plaintiffs in criminal and civil courts. A "law license" is nothing but a court order signed by a supreme court judge, and is merely a blanket "admission to the bar". ANY PERSON can be "admitted to the bar" in any court, by saying the magic words "I'm represeting myself pro se". PRO SE IS A LICENSE TO PRACTICE LAW IN ANY COURT. That's why those 2 words are never taught to the sheeple in school or on TeeVee.

Quote:

pro se.
One who represents himself in a court proceeding without the assistance of a lawyer.. Also termed pro per.
-Black's Law Dictionary, 7th Ed

attorn.
1. to agree to be the tenant of a new landlord.
2. To transfer money or goods to another.
-Black's Law Dictionary, 7th Ed

attorney.
Strictly, one who transacts business for another; a legal agent. Also termed attorney-in-fact; private attorney.
2. A person who practices law; LAWYER. Also termed attorney-at-law; public attorney.
-Black's Law Dictionary, 7th Ed



When I asked my dad about Power of Attorney-In-Fact, he called it "pro se for a pro se". He's past president of Assn of Trial Lawyers of America, president of TN Constitutional Convention in state legislature, former court clerk, candidate for US Senate. His 100-lawyer Dream Team sued Bush Sr under RICO Act for narcoterrorist bombings, triggering the Iran-Contra prosecutions. His billion-dollar Dream Team is currently suing Bush's Carlyle Group for $1-trillion for perping the 9/11 Massacres.
www.september11classaction.com

He's just a dumb country lawyer who lived in a 1-room shack with a dirt floor, or so he claims. He also worships Lucifer in the Masonic Mafia that runs the courts and legislatures today. I'm so proud. I'm not welcome as an employee in his law firm, since I declined offers to worship Lucifer, and I'm an honest journalist. As an ex-employee of Gangsta Govt, I know too many secrets.

Arguments based on the Constitutionally guaranteed God-given Right to Travel "fail" only because attorneys who are expert in Constitutional Law and Contract Law will never litigate such a case, due to its lack of profitability for them, since they're greedheads. They pay the copsters' extortion racket to Gangsta Govt, then pilot their private jetplanes as fast as they want, which they are "licensed" to do. You CAN get a govt license to drive yourself as fast as you want, certainly up to 600mph, so long as you travel by aircraft. Lawyers get rich by cherrypicking their legal battles, working only for clients with "deep pockets". That does NOT mean they wouldn't win if they put their entire lawfirm into researching such cases, with resources to rival The State. Look at the OJ Simpson case... (tho according to Dick Gregory, OJ really was set up, as proven by witnesses dropping dead during the $10-million trial).

That's why USA is dying, because intelligent wealthy people are selfish, and refuse to invest their wealth in winning traffic ticket cases, which would result in freedom for everyone. My family of trial lawyers is a prime example. They plea bargain their occasional traffic tickets, rather than litigate them - usually by paying a LARGE bribe to the judge's "political campaign fund" extortion racket - then fly their 450mph private aircraft over the heads of stupid traffic copsters.

Every now and then, a lawyer or prosecutor gets a traffic ticket, and get REALLY PISSED OFF when they research the law, and discover THEIR ticket is based entirely on FRAUD PERPED BY GANGSTA GOVT. Those licensed trial lawyers actually do spend $100,000 fighting THEIR traffic ticket, OR MORE, and win at appellate levels, setting legal precedents.

RADAR speeding tickets are prime examples, when defendants' discovery uncovered the fact that RADAR is extremely UNreliable, with 86mph trees, and a dozen types of routine errors. Florida and Michigan are 2 states where pissed off lawyers spent $100,000 in traffic court and WON precedent-setting cases, which established the Essential Elements for RADAR in those states, which prosecutors NEVER obey.

That's why Tennessee's Gangsta Govt refuses to publish Jury Instructions for ANY traffic "crimes", except Reckless Driving, DUI and Vehicular Homicide. In UT Law Library this week I did find Pattern Jury Instructions for RADAR speeding tickets in Tennessee, but it was 1965, and RADAR has been proven so defective since then that they dare not publish the real Essential Elements for RADAR, lest defendants start winning cases.

Another example of scams routinely perped by Gangsta Govt are parking tickets, which provide nexus for the fraud of massive car-theft and chop-shop rackets by hardcore gangsters, hired as govt contractors. Parking meters are unconstitutional, since govt employees get free parking. This violates Equal Protection doctrine. Two TN lawyers, Ernie Onks and Jerry Burgess, ignored 200 parking tickets at the court house, since the tickets lacked proper service of process. Gangsta Govt got greedy and prosecuted those 200 tickets. The lawyers lost in city court, lost in circuit court, lost in court of appeals. But then, magically, City of Cookville "voluntarily dismissed" its "winning" prosecution, and "voluntarily" ripped all 200 parking meters out of the ground and gave everyone free parking, rather than risk a precedent in TN Supreme Court to kill gangsta profits in all TN cities. Parking meters are like Robocops, all profits go to private contractors, NOT govt. This is an UNPUBLISHED decision, since Gangsta Govt "won" by CHEATING, which is NOT a legal precedent, and cannot be quoted in any court.

A lawyer would bill $100,000 MINIMUM to litigate such a case, which would probably require many appeals. Most elderly experienced competent wealthy lawyers have NEVER won an appeal. Most lawyers have to hire other lawyers who specialize in appeals for particular courts. At US Supreme Court level, the pleadings must actually be printed in SOFTCOVER BOOKS. Mid-level appellate courts require comb-bound books as pleadings.

In Gideon vs Wainwright, pro se Gideon WON in US Supreme Court, with appeals hand-written in pencil on prison paper. He won the right to counsel for indigent defendants, setting legal precedent for all Americans. His best-selling book, "Gideon's Trumpet", is a must-read for trial lawyers. But Gangsta Govt usurped that right today, by actually billing defendants for "Public Defenders". In Tennessee, indigent defendants are routinely billed $250 or more for their "free counsel", who immediately conned them into pleading guilty. In the case of traffic tickets, if the defendant misses a payment for their Public Defender, they are jailed for CIVIL Contempt of court, which literally carries a life sentence on Death Row. That's because they were conned by the judge into SIGNING A CIVIL CONTRACT to pay a debt (a void contract because they were coerced under duress). In TN, ALL MISDEMEANORS AND FELONIES ARE CIVIL CASES, when it comes to the court collecting probation fees and court costs. Probation agreements are also civil contracts, resulting in routine arrest for civil contempt of court.

My sister was a public defender for many years, in a large city. She NEVER won a case, and never bothered to read any textbooks written by law professors specializing in traffic law, such as Lawrence Taylor's books on DUI defense. Taylor exposes the massive SCAM of DUI prosecutions, such as the fact that alcohol-testing machines do NOT test for alcohol:
www.duicentral.com

As further evidence of this DUI scam, Tennessee Driver License Handbook (also printed in Spanish) confesses that THERE IS NO "PASSING SCORE" for alcohol tests:

Quote:

"Strictly speaking, a driver can register a BAC of 0.00% and still be convicted of a DUI. The level of BAC does NOT clear a driver when it is below the 'presumed level of intoxication.'"
—Tennessee Driver Handbook and Driver License Study Guide
www.state.tn.us/safety/publications.htm


A person is already under arrest BEFORE an alcohol test is taken, and charges cannot be dropped against innocent people, because they would then sue for false arrest and false imprisonment.

Pro se's rarely win at appellate levels, since they don't have the PROCEDURAL expertise required to win in court. Facts and law don't matter, as any judge will tell you in court. I've been told in court, by a judge, on the record, tape-recorded, in a traffic ticket case, "You can't use the Constitution in MY court! You might be able to argue that in federal court, but not here." That's because driver licenses and vehicle registrations are CIVIL contracts, not criminal misdemeanors, even tho Tennessee Code does allege that traffic tickets are criminal.

I WON that trial on appeal to Circuit Court, using TN Rules of CIVIL Procedure, even tho the first judge demanded I "plead guuilty" or "not guilty" for a "quasi-criminal" case. This was my personal wakeup call to this massive SCAM. I got that city court clerk FIRED for fraud, theft and extortion, after I subpoenaed him to testify about his court's Top Secret docket of 125,000 tickets/year. Eventually I got over 100 employees of Gangsta Govt FIRED for contract fraud and felony car theft in that case. You can read the actual pleadings, trial transcripts, listen to tape recorded confessions, and red news articles published in newspapers and broadcast on TV:
www.geocities.com/towcrime

The reason Gangsta Govt fights so hard to hide the fact that traffic tickets are civil, not criminal, is that under Civil Rules of Procedure, defendants have the right to countersue Gangsta Govt and its employees, in both their professional and individual capacities. Civil cases also allow defendants who win the have ALL THEIR ATTORNEY FEES PAID BY GANGSTA GOVT. There are also many other advantages to civil lawsuits, such as discovery, and requirement for proper service of process. But Gangsta Govt only drools over the alleged disadvantages, such as no Constitutional rights, and only a 50.01% Burden of Proof (same level as Probable Cause in criminal courts).

The point being, just because prosecutors defeat 99.99% of pro ses in court, don't mean nothin about THE LAW. In point of fact, most defendants have never heard the term "pro se", and don't know that has the same power as a "license to practice law". My uncle, Bob Plenge, was the Republican mayor of Paradise Valley, AZ, the richest suburb of Phoenix. He brags that he was the first mayor in USA to hire Robocops to sue traffic tickets, using an "American company" based in Scottsdale AZ. The fraud is that this company, REDflex, is NOT American, it's HQed in AUSTRALIA. So 75% of all ticket revenues are exported out of the courty, in cities all over USA, including my town of Knoxville TN, which stated this scam this week. Newspeprs and City Councils LIE the the sheeple about this fact. Never mind that these bogus tickets lack proper service of process, as required by law in ALL civil lawsuits. My aunt, a million-dollar/year MD (who brags she never cured anyone, just took all their insurance money until they died), claimed, "Of course those photo-RADAR tickets are legal! What does 'pro se' mean?" How can she know if it's legal if she don't know what pro se means? Her stupid kids are PhDs/MDs who party at Bohemian Grove. Her husband might not be a lawyer, but he sure knew he was lying about REDflex being from USA, since he's a stockbroker looting CAFR pension funds, and he probably gamgbled a lot of someone elses' money on the OZ stock exchange, with his insider information of that govt contract.
www.redflex.com.au

Is USA doomed?

Quote:

"It is extremely easy to beat this type of ticket in court. Your easiest defense is to simply throw the ticket away. If it does not come with a return receipt that requires a signature, there is no proof that you actually got the ticket and they cannot prosecute you on that. What the legal system wants you to do is just send in the fine and not ask any questions. This can be a big money maker for some communities. One other form of defense to utilize on your behalf is the fact that when you are accused in court you must be faced by your accuser. Obviously the computer cannot appear in court as a defense method for the prosecution. Also, you do not have to identify yourself as the driver of the vehicle because it would violate your sixth amendment rights against self incrimination."
-Norman G. Fernandez, attorney at law, and Jes Beard, attorney at law in Chattanooga, Tennessee, JesBeard.com, "How to Beat a Speeding Ticket - Photo RADAR"
www.jesbeard.com/s11.htm

"Mr. Speaker, my subject today is whether America is a police state. If we are, what are we going to do about it? Most police states, surprisingly, come about through the democratic process with majority support. The masses are easily led to believe that security and liberty are mutually exclusive, and demand for security far exceeds that for liberty. Our government already keeps close tabs on just about everything we do and requires official permission for nearly all of our activities. One might take a look at our Capitol for any evidence of a police state. We see: barricades, metal detectors, police, military soldiers at times, dogs, ID badges required for every move, vehicles checked at airports and throughout the Capitol. The people are totally disarmed, except for the police and the criminals. But worse yet, surveillance cameras in Washington are everywhere to ensure our safety. Like gun control, people control hurts law-abiding citizens much more than the law-breakers. Centralized control and regulations are required in a police state. Not only do we need a license to drive, but we also need special belts, bags, buzzers, seats and environmentally dictated speed limits. Or a policeman will be pulling us over to levy a fine, and he will be toting a gun for sure. Let's reject the police state."
—Congressman Dr. Ron Paul, MD (R-TX, 1988 Libertarian Party candidate for President), speech in House of Representatives, United States Congress, "Are We Doomed To Be a Police State?" June 27, 2002
www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2002/cr062702.htm

"Court finds $27,500 fine for second offense driving on a revoked license to be excessive."
—State vs Taylor, 70 S.W.3d 717 (Tenn. 2002)

$50,000 parking tickets: John Lee vs City of Knoxville, et al
www.geocities.com/parking_ticket_appeal

"I sure learned alot today."
-Judge John Rossen, John Lee vs City of Knoxville, et al

"In your lifetime most existing roads will have tolls."
-Texas Transportation Commissioner Ric Williamson, October 11, 2004, "King of Spain awarded $3.85/gallon gasoline tax in Texas USA - 1,000% tax increase - current gasoline tax is 38-cents/gallon," (NAFTA/SHAFTA) December 2005
www.CorridorWatch.org
www.TexasTollParty.com

"Government control of Communications and Transportation."
-Communist Manifesto, 6th Plank

"I saw two officers as before, who rode up to me, with their pistols in their hands, said God damn you stop, if go an Inch further, you are a dead Man, and swore if we did not turn in to that pasture, they would blow our brains out. Major Mitchel of the 5th Regt clapd his Pistol to my head, and said he was going to ask me some questions, if I did not tell the truth, he would blow my brains out. I told him I esteemed myself a man of truth, that he had stopped me on the highway, & made me a prisoner, I knew not by what right; I would tell him the truth; I was not afraid."
—Lt Col Paul Revere, owner of RevereWare, sworn affidavit: "Memorandum on Events of April 18, 1775" (declassified Top Secret), while under arrest (and subsequent escape) from Redcoat martial-law traffic police at Minute Man National Historic Park, Paul Revere Capture Site, on the eve of the American Revolutionary War and kicking off the Battle of Lexington and Concord, against the army, navy and courts of King George III, heriditary dictator of England who attempted "gun control" by an Assault Weapons Ban of defensive 50-caliber muskets and cannon, Paul Revere's Ride, by David Hackett Fischer
www.patriotresource.com/documents/revere.html

April 19th, 1775 (Redcoats Massacre Waco: April 19; Redcoats Massacre OKC Fed Bldg: April 19)
www.nps.gov/mima/

"Make yourselves sheep and the wolves will eat you."
—Benjamin Franklin



The saddest part of stupid sheeple not defending themselves pro se in Traffic Courts, is that they never learn anything about how to effectively represent themselves in court, when they REALLY need to win a REAL legal case, with a lot of money on the table. Pro se's do routinely win $100,000 verdicts, however, such as Social Security Disability cases, worth perhaps more than $500,000. Attending TeeVee Law School on the couch at Judge Judy's is FATAL to figuring out how the legal scams defraud YOU.

I'm a wolfhunter in sheep's clothing. Or a bearhunter. It's more fun that way.

http://www.wpe.com/~musici/Dont-Tread-300
USA's first official flag
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gadsden_flag
www.wpe.com/~musici/Gadsden.html

I only let the people I own use my title.
-Magistrate Higgins, Jaynestown

AMERICAN AUTOBAHN
As seen on History Channel TV at a LEGAL 212mph on a public highway!
www.americanautobahn.com

DEALS GAP DRAGON
As seen on Speed TV
Answer to Complaint for Traffic Tickets
www.dealsgapdragon.com

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Friday, April 7, 2006 10:30 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by piratenews:

In Gideon vs Wainwright, pro se Gideon WON in US Supreme Court, with appeals hand-written in pencil on prison paper. He won the right to counsel for indigent defendants, setting legal precedent for all Americans. His best-selling book, "Gideon's Trumpet", is a must-read for trial lawyers.


'Gideon's Trumpet' was written by Anthony Lewis, a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist who was famous for his coverage of the Supreme Court in the 1960's.

Never read the book, good movie though. If you can stay awake the whole way through you'll notice that Mr. Gideon was given a lawyer once his appeals were accepted. The lawyer was none other then future Supreme Court Justice Abe Fortas who went on to successfully argue on Mr. Gideon's behalf in front of the Supreme Court.

For the record, PN can bluster all he wants about practicing law without a license. If he walks into a courtroom he has the right to represent himself, pro se, same as anybody does, but without a license he will not be allowed to practice on anyone else's behalf. The divider between the gallery and the tables and bench in the front of a courtroom (with a little gate usually) is called a "bar", only witnesses, defendants, and officers of the court are allowed "past the bar" for trial. Hence the big test we all take and PN would fail is called the "bar exam" and once we've passed the bar we can pass the bar.

Although to be honost, I know a lot of lawyers who can't pass up a bar. Oddly, that was Gideon's problem too. He was tried for robbing a bar that he frequented.

H

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Friday, April 7, 2006 10:36 AM

OLDENGLANDDRY


Yawn.

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Friday, April 7, 2006 12:12 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:

Originally posted by piratenews:

In Gideon vs Wainwright, pro se Gideon WON in US Supreme Court, with appeals hand-written in pencil on prison paper. He won the right to counsel for indigent defendants, setting legal precedent for all Americans. His best-selling book, "Gideon's Trumpet", is a must-read for trial lawyers.


'Gideon's Trumpet' was written by Anthony Lewis, a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist who was famous for his coverage of the Supreme Court in the 1960's.

Never read the book, good movie though. If you can stay awake the whole way through you'll notice that Mr. Gideon was given a lawyer once his appeals were accepted. The lawyer was none other then future Supreme Court Justice Abe Fortas who went on to successfully argue on Mr. Gideon's behalf in front of the Supreme Court.

For the record, PN can bluster all he wants about practicing law without a license. If he walks into a courtroom he has the right to represent himself, pro se, same as anybody does, but without a license he will not be allowed to practice on anyone else's behalf. The divider between the gallery and the tables and bench in the front of a courtroom (with a little gate usually) is called a "bar", only witnesses, defendants, and officers of the court are allowed "past the bar" for trial. Hence the big test we all take and PN would fail is called the "bar exam" and once we've passed the bar we can pass the bar.

Although to be honost, I know a lot of lawyers who can't pass up a bar. Oddly, that was Gideon's problem too. He was tried for robbing a bar that he frequented.

H



Yes, everyone wanted a piece of poor Gideon, who was not a lerned man of letters. I bet his attorneys profited greatly, as did his publisher and producer. Gideon was found Not Guilty of robbing that bar, and was in fact innocent, if my memory from 30 years ago is correct. Tho he admitted that he did perp other crimes, just not THAT crime. Cops routinely grab the wrong criminal, and prosecutors, judges and defense lawyers don't care.

The key to Gideon was common sense. This is the key to all Constitutional arguments - "simplicity". The Constitution is still the controlling document for every other book in a law library. Gideon refused to waiver his Constitutional right to DUE PROCESS. Any defendant can likewise refuse to sign away their Constitutional rights and "civil rights" (statutory rights), in a civil contract signed under duress to a judge. Gideon refused to give up, even after he got hammered by many cops, prosecutors and judges. Gideon proved himself a "good American". I just hope he was able to turn his life around after winning the burden of success.

It's like Miranda, a confessed killer, winning for every American "the right to remain silent". (Is that where Joss got that name?) Miranda was subsequently found guilty of murder, after remand for retrial, but without using the improper confession. Why does the US S Ct only cherrypick cases for predetermined precedent, from CRIMINAL defendants, not purely innocent ones? There are plenty of innocent people rotting in jails and Death Row in USA today. I find that ODD.

I do concede that attorneys-at-LAW have cornered the market on use of the word LAWYER, which might encompass the term "PRACTICING law". I'm not talking about "practicing", I'm talking about representing another person based on common-law right to contract, as guaranteed by the US Constitution's "Contract Clause".

As for the alleged chain letter:

Quote:

Greetings: I am a retired attorney. A few years ago, a man came to me with a letter. He asked me to verify the fact this was legal to do...


He/she wrote "attorney", not "attorney-at-law". In fact, the single word "attorney" is misleading, since it specifies neither attorney-at-law nor attorney-in-fact, both of which require a contractural agreement in writing before the attorney actually has "power of attorney". Is this alleged person actually a "lawyer/attorney-at-law", formerly admitted to the bar as a "licensed lawyer"? If not, could this imaginary person be convicted for "practicing law without a license"? I doubt it.

So Mr H, you are testifying, under oath, under penalty of perjury, that there is no such thing as "Power of Attorney"? TN Ct of Criminal Appeals ruled that it is NOT prejudicial for a "NON-lawyer" to represent a defendant in criminal procedeedings. Have you never heard of Durable Power of Attorney, or General Power of Attorney, or "Living Will" (POA), as routinely litagated by "non-lawyers" in civil courts? Have you never heard of title clerks at car dealerships, and court clerks offices, routinely using POAs to transfer vehicle ownership (to the State)? Have you never seen a law student defend indigent clients in criminal courts, where the judge literally acting as "supervisory attorney" for that unlicensed student? Are you denying the definition for "attorney", as published in Blacks Law Dictionary, which is admissible under Judicial Notice in any court of law per the Rules of Evidence?

And why do prosecutors NEVER swear on a Bible to tell the truth in court?

What is a criminal prosecutor?
Redundant.

Quote:

You Might Be A Lawyer If....

You are charging someone for reading these jokes.

The shortest sentence you have ever written was more than eighty words long.

You have a daughter named Sue and a son named Bill.

Your other car is a BMW.

When you look in a mirror, you see a lawyer.

When your wife says "I love you," you cross-examine her.

You don't laff at lawyer jokes.



One more:

Quote:

jailhouse lawyer.
A prison inmate who seeks release through legal procedures or who gives legal advice to other inmates.
-Black's Law Dictionary 7th Ed



I wonder how many "licensed lawyers", prosecutors and judges are in jail?

Here's two:

Quote:

State and federal authorities are looking into what an attorney calls a "garden variety wreck" involving a judge who pleaded guilty to extortion. Authorities say former Roane County General Sessions Court judge Thomas Austin's bond specifies he not drink alcohol or use marijuana after court evidence showed he regularly did both. The 57-year-old Austin is free on bond, pending his August sentencing. Austin pleaded guilty last month to three counts of extortion for receiving kickbacks from two driving schools where he sent traffic offenders. Austin crashed his 1993 Lincoln into a pole on a Roane County road Wednesday night. He wasn't injured and said he was blinded by the lights of an oncoming car. Safety Department spokeswoman Melissa McDonald said the investigating trooper saw no evidence of alcohol consumption, but did not order a blood test on Austin.
www.wbir.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=33325&provider=rss
http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/piratenewsrss/message/112

"Oklahoma's attorney general wants a state judge removed on suspicion he frequently masturbated and used a device for enhancing erections while his court was in session, a spokesman for the office said Thursday. Attorney General Drew Edmondson filed a petition Wednesday with state judicial authorities seeking the removal of Sapulpa District Judge Donald Thompson, 57, for 'conduct constituting an offense involving moral turpitude in violation of the Oklahoma Constitution,' Edmondson's spokesman said Thursday. The judge flatly denies the charges made in the petition, his lawyer, Clark Brewster, said Thursday. He said the judge received a penis pump for his 50th birthday as a gag gift, which became a source of a running joke in the courthouse. 'The allegations are bizarre and preposterous,' Brewster said. "Recently, some members of local law enforcement that are upset with a number of his rulings, used this situation to embarrass and attack him.' In the petition, the attorney general charged Thompson used a penis pump, a device billed as providing sexual pleasure and promising better erections and larger penis size, during trials and exposed himself to a court reporter several times while masturbating on the bench. 'On one occasion, Ms. (Lisa) Foster (Thompson's court reporter for 15 years), saw Judge Thompson holding his penis up and shaving underneath it with a disposable razor while on the bench,' the petition reads. Several witnesses, including jurors in Thompson's court and police officers called to testify in trials, said in the petition they heard the 'swooshing' sound of a penis pump during trials and saw the judge slumped in his chair, with his elbows on his knees, working the device. The witnesses said the pump sounded like a blood pressure cuff being pumped up. According to the petition, Thompson admitted he had a penis pump under the bench during a murder trial but he told investigators it was a gag gift from a friend."
—CNN TV News, CNN.com, Reuters, "Judge suspected of masturbating in court," June 24, 2004
www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/06/24/odd.judge.reut/index.html

Here Comes The Judge
State Bounces Oklahoma jurist for "pumping it up" on bench
www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0624041pump1.html

"Judge Thompson's trial is starting. This is so weird. Bob Sherrill says the trial will be graphic. Then the felony indecency charges in January 2005. If it were a Hollywood film the upcoming indecent exposure trial of former District Judge Donald Thompson likely would get an X rating. Thompson is charged with three counts of indecent exposure. Jury selection is expected to begin Monday morning in Bristow. Defense attorney Clark Brewester failed to totally convince Comanche County District Judge C. Allen McCall to suppress some of the suggestive sexual language, pornographic photographs and a penis pump from jurors. The allegations against Thompson are that he masturbated while presiding at two murder trials and a civil case in 2003. Oklahoma County Assistant District Attorney Patricia High said Thompson's alleged sexual conduct supports the state's allegations the judge exposed his genitals to three different courthouse employees on three different occasions. In Tuesday's hearing Brewester attempted to get the entire hearing moved behind closed doors because of the graphic, sexual language and exhibits. However, McCall ruled the public had a right to know and the media had the right to report. Lisa Foster, Thompson's former court reporter said she took pictures of the pump because of the fear no one would believe her. There were sobs and tears at times as Zelma Hindman, Lisa Foster and Dianna Horath Stricklin told of allegedly observing masturbation, exposure and propositions of sexual acts. Foster said she had told a friend of how Thompson had been exposing himself deliberately in front of her for years. "My friend asked me why I did not tell someone what was going on," she said. "I told her that I was afraid that I might find myself dead in a ditch someday." One reporter asked what prompted her to make that statement and Foster said, "You just don't know Creek County." Strickland said she had worked as a minute clerk in Thompson's courtroom for 23 years. The court application requests that Comanche County District Judge C. Allen McCall issue a ruling that would give the defense team possession of the pump seized by the state so their own forensic expert may conduct tests. If convicted, Thompson could face up to 10 years in prison and a $20,000 fine on each charge and would have to register as a sex offender upon his release. What is kind of, well, funny in a sick way, is that in July of 2003, Thompson rejected a plea bargain and sentenced John Marquez to life in prison for spitting on a police officer. Thompson served six years in the state House of Representatives starting in 1975."
http://lizditz.typepad.com/i_speak_of_dreams/2004/06/speechless.html

"My god! A judge was arrested for using a peterpump on himself in court?! During a murder trial?! It doesn't surprise me."
-My cousin, Sharon Lee, the state appellate court judge
www.tncourts.gov/geninfo/Bio/Appeals/Biotca.htm

Google search: Judge Donald D. Thompson
Results 1 - 10 of about 4,440,000



That has to be the funniest lawyer joke in the world. So much for Hero's theory of "sovereign immunity", unless you count that DUI crash. Judge Peter Pump pled guilty to pumping his peter, apparently.


I only let the people I own use my title.
-Magistrate Higgins, Jaynestown

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