REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

A whole bucket of bad

POSTED BY: DREAMTROVE
UPDATED: Saturday, September 23, 2006 05:10
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 2164
PAGE 1 of 1

Tuesday, September 19, 2006 10:00 AM

DREAMTROVE


Bush gave a good speech, so kudos.

But...

The Musharraf gave a speech in which he basically said "screw america, I'm china's new best friend"

Which brings up this scenario some people may remember when I said "If we're not careful, this could happen" and then I drew a map? Well we were not careful in the extreme, and here's the reality.



And we're at war with Islam? Where was I? Well, it's a whole bucket of bad, people.

The US has been de facto defeated in Afghanistan, where we control 0% of the country. China has a straight line to Iran, and has promised to back it up militarily.

And Bush is issuing warnings? We can't win this war guys. In fact, drawing it to a draw in soe favorable light is beginning to look sketchy. If we want to do that, we should start right now. We're about to have our asses handed to us if we don't.

This isn't the rule of the American know-how, it's the rule of the American know-it-all.

I see some right wing xtian group backed torture. The president lost his temper at Powell, and Snowe, Hagel and Chafee joined McCain, Warner and Graham in opposition to the new plan (good for them)

Bush is coming down with a thud, that goes without saying, but it's much worse than that. America may come down with a thud. I think we should start that alternative fuel research right now, because when China controls the ME, we don't want to have to borrow money from them to buy oil from them at a name-their-price deal.


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, September 19, 2006 10:31 AM

CHRISISALL


It's always doom and gloom with you lefty-types, er, righty-types, uh, I mean....REALISTS!!!

The it-could-never-really-happen-that-way-types should be chiming in any time now....

Bush might get his rapture sooner than he thinks Chrisisall



NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, September 19, 2006 10:50 AM

FUTUREMRSFILLION


ooooh pretty colors!


----
Bestower of Titles, Designer of Tshirts, Maker of Mottos, Keeper of the Pyre

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"



NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, September 19, 2006 11:03 AM

ERIC


I've already started saving up for an isolated island property in Canada...I suggest everyone else do the same. Looks like it could all come crashing down anytime...

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, September 19, 2006 11:14 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


DREAMTROVE! Morbid and creepifying I got no problem with. Just do it quiet-like.

Oh, and you forgot to extend your map through Iraq to Syria. Sheesh!!!

---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, September 19, 2006 11:56 AM

DREAMTROVE


I posted that map a year ago when it wasn't yet true. This was a repost, now that it is true. Then, it was my "worst case scenario." Now it's an established official fact, and I have plenty of "worse cases" now that come to me. If I were being realistic I would now color Afgh. in red as well, but I wasn't going to edit the map, just go Nyah Nyah to the Bush types who, when I posted that before, were like "never gonna happen." But also, after all the Nyah Nyah, there's the Oh., and Uh-oh.

So, at last, we have united the Middle East: Against us. Which isn't actually news. But now that we have resoundingly lost, which is what I think today's development means, we need to start on life-without-oil thing. Oh, and don't worry about bringing the troops home, they'll probably all defect to Iraq when they find it still has jobs and a bill of rights. Of course 120 degrees and sand flies, but hey, wasn't that south dakota?

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, September 19, 2006 11:57 AM

DREAMTROVE


Eric,

You're taking my plan!
Mine requires stem cells to do well (NASDAQ:STEM)

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, September 19, 2006 2:13 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Looks like a big, beautiful fruit salad !

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, September 19, 2006 3:12 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


AHHHhhhhh. My dream. Land in Canada some where on an isolated island ....
Quote:

Originally posted by Eric:
I've already started saving up for an isolated island property in Canada...I suggest everyone else do the same. Looks like it could all come crashing down anytime...


NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, September 19, 2006 3:22 PM

KANEMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Bush gave a good speech, so kudos.

But...

The Musharraf gave a speech in which he basically said "screw america, I'm china's new best friend"

Which brings up this scenario some people may remember when I said "If we're not careful, this could happen" and then I drew a map? Well we were not careful in the extreme, and here's the reality.



And we're at war with Islam? Where was I? Well, it's a whole bucket of bad, people.

The US has been de facto defeated in Afghanistan, where we control 0% of the country. China has a straight line to Iran, and has promised to back it up militarily.

And Bush is issuing warnings? We can't win this war guys. In fact, drawing it to a draw in soe favorable light is beginning to look sketchy. If we want to do that, we should start right now. We're about to have our asses handed to us if we don't.

This isn't the rule of the American know-how, it's the rule of the American know-it-all.

I see some right wing xtian group backed torture. The president lost his temper at Powell, and Snowe, Hagel and Chafee joined McCain, Warner and Graham in opposition to the new plan (good for them)

Bush is coming down with a thud, that goes without saying, but it's much worse than that. America may come down with a thud. I think we should start that alternative fuel research right now, because when China controls the ME, we don't want to have to borrow money from them to buy oil from them at a name-their-price deal.





My goodness, I didn't notice the sky falling! Just for ha-has lets say your map is correct. How does China own the oil? Where are they getting it, Afghanistan? Pakistan? Iran?.. What is that 100,000 barrels a day? Why is Pakistan red anyway? And hasn't China and Iran been in bed with each other for awhile now?

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, September 19, 2006 3:30 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


China has never made a secret of cozying up to anyone who will do oil deals, especially if those countries are divorced from anything US. China built several deep-water oil ports in Pakistan (but not India). They had contracts with Iraq, they are in active competition with Japan for the eastern Siberian pipeline, they just signed an oil-development deal with Venezuela, they are the major Darfur stumbling block as they (the Chinese) don't want to disturb their Sudanese oil contracts by supporting UN sanctions.

OF COURSE they are signing oil deals with Iran ...

Now this is a prediction -

Just by ass-wipe's posts, I will bet the US administration will reverse itself on oil and favor renewables. I don't know whether it will say 'climate change' or 'energy independence', or both. But I predict it will happen on or before the next SOTU.


NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, September 19, 2006 4:21 PM

DREAMTROVE


Rue,

excellent observations about China, I thnk you're right on all accounts.

I don't think our neanderthal goons are ready to give up on oil. They were all about oil in the 1970s, and backed the idea of the AT&T break-up over nothing to do with phone service in 1984. AT&T was the #1 company in the alternative energy field at the time, in fact, they were 90% of the industry. Our high phone bills were paying for that research. By saving us 11 cents a minute, the neocommies managed to lock us to the death into an oil nightmare.

But over 30 years, I would have thought that self styled intellectual academic think tank geniuses would have come up with a better plan. But they didn't. These morons are really just following Mr. Max Shachtman and Mr. Leo Strauss and a few others, and their plan, and since these old guys were dead, there was no revision to the plan. That plan: control the world's oil, and hold the world hostage until it accepted democracy, and manipulate that democracy to create a one world govt. Then ban weapons, dissent and competition.

But 30 years of alternative energy research and they could have changed their tune. I think they are aware that it's a problem, but for all their brains, these guys are not the sharpest tools in the shed. If you listen to their alternative energy ideas, they're both bogus and sad. They're always on about "the new oil." Biodiesel, ethanol, etc. This is what you get from clueless crooks. They can't think past oil, so they just try to reinvent oil. We're awash in energy all the time and they can't even see it. Everything here is energy, gravity, light, heat, wind, - you and I burn energy all day long, about 90% of that is going to maintain body heat - or what about durable batteries and nuclear power? Or here's an idea to chew on: One regular thunderstorm has more potential energy than the nuclear arsenals of the US and USSR combined. What about one hurricane? Or a couple dozen? The options are truly endless, but here's the trick: You have to be a scientists to understand them. And these guys aren't scientists. They're political scientists, social engineers. They understand mass psychology, they don't understand atomic mass.

Alternative energy will come., but someone else will control it, thank god

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, September 19, 2006 4:39 PM

DREAMTROVE


Kaneman

The map was speculation when I posted it a year ago. As of today, it's fact. Pakistan declared its alliegence to China today. They essentially said America, so what, paint us red. That's why they're red.

The radical change of the map is just that Iran has been an ally of china since 2000. Now they share a corridor. The oil production of Iran is soon going to be #1. OUR elected govt. in Iraq is considering signing a deal with Iran. When we are gone, they will be Iran's new bes friend. At some point, they might support OBL to take over SA, which is his real personal life long ambition. At that point, all our base will belong to them.

China already has Venezuela, and increasingly, LA as a whole. This give us OUR oil, and precious little else. Fortunately, we have a fair amount of oil. But we need to think about a change of energy policy.

Make note, please, that the most important part of the change in the map is that China's previously seemingly empty threat that they would defend Iran if we attacked it is now much more solid, since they can freely roll in the tanks. War with Iran has now become a completely unwinnable affair. Expect much empty rhetoric from the US with zero impact on Iran.

My point, BTW, when I proposed this possibility last year was that Finn and co might look at it and take note, and place a higher priority on maintaining our alliance with Pakistan, by, say, not bombing it. When we attacked places like Waziristan, which is one of the places OBL is believed to be, and is claimed by Pakistan (Though it claims to be independent) - that creates ill will with Pakistan. I don't care about OBL, but I'm not fond of losing the entire conflict to arrogant stupidity.

This is the part about Uh-oh. I have no idea if those guys have any influence, but clearly, we failed to hang on to a fragile relationship. Anyone who is following the Afgh. conflict knows that we are getting our heads handed to us daily in the countryside, and increasingly in the cities, and lately in the capital. I don't buy that Saddam had been reduced to mayor of Baghdad, but Karzai has become mayor of Kabul.

I think in general, in all of this distraction to Islam and terrorists, we took our eyes off the ball. Our enemy was communism, which failed to roll over an die when the soviet union collapsed. Communism, in an economic sense, sure, is gone, but as a system of govt. and social order, bound by a top down design, a ruling oligarchical elite, and a zero human rights and freedom policy - is alive and well. And we ignored it, and got on this Bin Laden/Al Qaeda/Saddam/Islam kick and our old foe spent little time dancing about the fireplace, but got right to work taking over everything we were ignoring. Has anyone noticed the spread of soviet-style communism in africa? I don't imagine anyone was looking. How about in Russia? I hear an awful lot of "Russia, so what" these days, but Putin has virtually reconstructed the old soviet power hierarchy. Party over, time america gets back to work.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, September 20, 2006 5:18 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


DT,
Unfortunately I don't have time to respond at length, probably not this week anyway. I believe the Admin's announcement will merely be a political stunt. It'll be like 'no child left behind' - lots of bluster and bluff.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, September 20, 2006 10:28 AM

BLAZESOLO


Mexico is closer ta me and no snow!!!!! Damn shame we're thinkin bout jumpin ship, but oh well if we're sinkin this bad, get out while the gettins good.

I wear a blaster under my Browncoat

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, September 21, 2006 2:32 PM

SPACELIPS


Quote:

Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Kaneman

The map was speculation when I posted it a year ago. As of today, it's fact. Pakistan declared its alliegence to China today. They essentially said America, so what, paint us red. That's why they're red.

The radical change of the map is just that Iran has been an ally of china since 2000. Now they share a corridor. The oil production of Iran is soon going to be #1. OUR elected govt. in Iraq is considering signing a deal with Iran. When we are gone, they will be Iran's new bes friend. At some point, they might support OBL to take over SA, which is his real personal life long ambition. At that point, all our base will belong to them.

China already has Venezuela, and increasingly, LA as a whole. This give us OUR oil, and precious little else. Fortunately, we have a fair amount of oil. But we need to think about a change of energy policy.

Make note, please, that the most important part of the change in the map is that China's previously seemingly empty threat that they would defend Iran if we attacked it is now much more solid, since they can freely roll in the tanks. War with Iran has now become a completely unwinnable affair. Expect much empty rhetoric from the US with zero impact on Iran.

My point, BTW, when I proposed this possibility last year was that Finn and co might look at it and take note, and place a higher priority on maintaining our alliance with Pakistan, by, say, not bombing it. When we attacked places like Waziristan, which is one of the places OBL is believed to be, and is claimed by Pakistan (Though it claims to be independent) - that creates ill will with Pakistan. I don't care about OBL, but I'm not fond of losing the entire conflict to arrogant stupidity.

This is the part about Uh-oh. I have no idea if those guys have any influence, but clearly, we failed to hang on to a fragile relationship. Anyone who is following the Afgh. conflict knows that we are getting our heads handed to us daily in the countryside, and increasingly in the cities, and lately in the capital. I don't buy that Saddam had been reduced to mayor of Baghdad, but Karzai has become mayor of Kabul.

I think in general, in all of this distraction to Islam and terrorists, we took our eyes off the ball. Our enemy was communism, which failed to roll over an die when the soviet union collapsed. Communism, in an economic sense, sure, is gone, but as a system of govt. and social order, bound by a top down design, a ruling oligarchical elite, and a zero human rights and freedom policy - is alive and well. And we ignored it, and got on this Bin Laden/Al Qaeda/Saddam/Islam kick and our old foe spent little time dancing about the fireplace, but got right to work taking over everything we were ignoring. Has anyone noticed the spread of soviet-style communism in africa? I don't imagine anyone was looking. How about in Russia? I hear an awful lot of "Russia, so what" these days, but Putin has virtually reconstructed the old soviet power hierarchy. Party over, time america gets back to work.




Interesting post Dreamtrove. Countries will always sell us oil. Money is god and will always come before political alliance. The media's eyes may have been off of China(even that is overstating, a simple Google search can show how much goes on between Russia, US, China, Japan, and Korea), but our government and the citizens that pay attention always have one eye on China, always will. None of this is news to anyone that pays even slight attention. As stated in a previous post Iran and China have been together for sometime. Chavez's politics will not even outlast Chavez himself. Don't worry so much. We went toe to toe with the USSR and did fine. China will be no different.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, September 22, 2006 3:56 AM

DREAMTROVE


Well, depends what's acceptable. China took over Taiwan, a US ally the size of Iraq with more earning power than ten Iraq's worth of oil. If we had agreed to defend Taiwan in exchange for a 10% tax, they probably would have taken it, and it would yield the same income as stealing all the oil from Iraq. China has no intention of going to war with the United States. They would have made a lot of noise about it, but they wouldn't have done anything.

Honestly, this is what I expected Bush would do back in 2000. I didn't think he was a total idiot. I appear to have been proven wrong.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, September 22, 2006 4:29 AM

ROCKETJOCK


Quote:

Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Rue,

excellent observations about China, I thnk you're right on all accounts.

I don't think our neanderthal goons are ready to give up on oil. They were all about oil in the 1970s, and backed the idea of the AT&T break-up over nothing to do with phone service in 1984. AT&T was the #1 company in the alternative energy field at the time, in fact, they were 90% of the industry. Our high phone bills were paying for that research...

...Alternative energy will come., but someone else will control it, thank god



Myself, I've always considered it less than coincidental that the Apollo Program was cancelled almost immediately after they verified the existance of Helium-Three on the moon. Not just cancelled, but razed, burnt to the ground, the soil salted, necessary Saturn V machinings deliberately destroyed. Somebody was sure scared at the idea of cheap, clean energy.

This, of course, happened during the Nixon Administration. You remember, "Dick Nixon, A wholly owned subsidiary of the American Oil Companies."

But as to the main theme of this thread, I'm unsurprised. Something of this nature was inevitable from the moment our esteemed leadership decided to split our resources into a two-front war for no good reason. Effectively, they decided that Afghanistan just wasn't worth the effort compared to the short-term political hay they sought to harvest by attacking Iraq...

He who sows the wind...



"She's tore up plenty. But she'll fly true." -- Zoë Washburn

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, September 22, 2006 6:06 AM

SPACELIPS


Quote:

Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Well, depends what's acceptable. China took over Taiwan, a US ally the size of Iraq with more earning power than ten Iraq's worth of oil. If we had agreed to defend Taiwan in exchange for a 10% tax, they probably would have taken it, and it would yield the same income as stealing all the oil from Iraq. China has no intention of going to war with the United States. They would have made a lot of noise about it, but they wouldn't have done anything.

Honestly, this is what I expected Bush would do back in 2000. I didn't think he was a total idiot. I appear to have been proven wrong.



I wasn't aware we were stealing all the oil from Iraq. Is that rhetoric or hyperbole?

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, September 22, 2006 9:21 AM

DREAMTROVE


Space

It wasn't an accusation, it was a -if this war is about oil then-
Seriously, there's a lot of oil theft though. Exxon-Mobile, Chevron-Texaco are slipping ships out of the gulf filled with out, hence the huge profits, and loss of Iraq production. There's a serious gap between what the engineers say they're pumping out and what the iraqi govt. says it's getting. Someone, somewhere along the line, is stealing oil. My suspect is the guys with the big tankers and the hefty profits.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, September 22, 2006 1:45 PM

KANEMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Spacelips:
Quote:

Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Well, depends what's acceptable. China took over Taiwan, a US ally the size of Iraq with more earning power than ten Iraq's worth of oil. If we had agreed to defend Taiwan in exchange for a 10% tax, they probably would have taken it, and it would yield the same income as stealing all the oil from Iraq. China has no intention of going to war with the United States. They would have made a lot of noise about it, but they wouldn't have done anything.

Honestly, this is what I expected Bush would do back in 2000. I didn't think he was a total idiot. I appear to have been proven wrong.



I wasn't aware we were stealing all the oil from Iraq. Is that rhetoric or hyperbole?



Hey sh*tlips, don't bother debating with these cameltoes. They are about as thick headed as can be
Well, it's true

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, September 22, 2006 1:52 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Well, it's true

Everytime I see these words all I can think of is that phrase coming out of the dark in Blazing Saddles: "it's twooo, it's twooo ..."

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, September 23, 2006 5:10 AM

DREAMTROVE


Kaneman, the elegant statesman as always.

Edit.

Actually, I think Kaneman thinks of itself as conservative. Objectively, this is humorous.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

YOUR OPTIONS

NEW POSTS TODAY

USERPOST DATE

OTHER TOPICS

DISCUSSIONS
Elections; 2024
Fri, March 29, 2024 06:56 - 2076 posts
Russia Invades Ukraine. Again
Fri, March 29, 2024 06:20 - 6156 posts
Russia says 60 dead, 145 injured in concert hall raid; Islamic State group claims responsibility
Fri, March 29, 2024 06:18 - 57 posts
In the garden, and RAIN!!! (2)
Fri, March 29, 2024 02:54 - 3414 posts
BUILD BACK BETTER!
Fri, March 29, 2024 02:49 - 11 posts
Long List of Celebrities that are Still Here
Fri, March 29, 2024 00:00 - 1 posts
China
Thu, March 28, 2024 22:10 - 447 posts
Biden
Thu, March 28, 2024 22:03 - 853 posts
Well... He was no longer useful to the DNC or the Ukraine Money Laundering Scheme... So justice was served
Thu, March 28, 2024 12:44 - 1 posts
Salon: NBC's Ronna blunder: A failed attempt to appeal to MAGA voters — except they hate her too
Thu, March 28, 2024 07:04 - 1 posts
Russian losses in Ukraine
Wed, March 27, 2024 23:21 - 987 posts
human actions, global climate change, global human solutions
Wed, March 27, 2024 15:03 - 824 posts

FFF.NET SOCIAL