REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

John Kerry Belittles U.S. Troops?

POSTED BY: SKYWALKEN
UPDATED: Sunday, November 5, 2006 18:25
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Tuesday, October 31, 2006 12:51 PM

SKYWALKEN


At a campaign rally yesterday, the presidential candidate of the Democratic Party in 2004 said this: "You know, education, if you make the most of it, if you study hard and you do your homework, and you make an effort to be smart, uh, you can do well. If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."

Here's the video:


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Tuesday, October 31, 2006 12:57 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Skywalken:
At a campaign rally yesterday, the presidential candidate of the Democratic Party said this: "You know, education, if you make the most of it, if you study hard and you do your homework, and you make an effort to be smart, uh, you can do well. If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."

Here's the video:




You barely beat me to it. No question John F Kerry flat out ridiculed the entire US armed servies. Kerry unbelievably stated that the troops over in Iraq are uneducated slackers who couldn't amount to anything in life and joined the military as a last resort to make something of their lives.

Thanks Kerry, you just may have solidified the GOP control of both House and Senate for another 2 yrs. Bravo!!

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Tuesday, October 31, 2006 12:58 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


"If anyone thinks a veteran would criticize the more than 140,000 heroes serving in Iraq and not the president who got us stuck there, they're crazy," Kerry said. "I'm not going to be lectured by a stuffed suit White House mouthpiece standing behind a podium, or doughy Rush Limbaugh, who no doubt today will take a break from belittling Michael J. Fox's Parkinson's disease to start lying about me just as they have lied about Iraq."

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Tuesday, October 31, 2006 12:59 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
"If anyone thinks a veteran would criticize the more than 140,000 heroes serving in Iraq and not the president who got us stuck there, they're crazy," Kerry said. "I'm not going to be lectured by a stuffed suit White House mouthpiece standing behind a podium, or doughy Rush Limbaugh, who no doubt today will take a break from belittling Michael J. Fox's Parkinson's disease to start lying about me just as they have lied about Iraq."



John Kerry is a coward and a liar. He said what he said, and he doesn't even have the balls to admit he's wrong. What a fucking pussy.

*edit* John, it's you who is the crazy one here. You said what you said, you own them an apology.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Tuesday, October 31, 2006 1:02 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Does anyone have the complete transcript ? Or are we dealing with something taken out of context? (again)

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Tuesday, October 31, 2006 1:03 PM

KANEMAN


It's not the October surprise, it's an early Christmas gift..Thanks Kerry...

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Tuesday, October 31, 2006 1:10 PM

CHRISISALL


I'll be the first (percieved) left-type to say it,
BOY WAS THAT A DUMB THING TO SAY.

Unless context proves different, it was almost worthy of Rush.

Open mouth- insert foot Chrisisall

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Tuesday, October 31, 2006 1:32 PM

SKYWALKEN


Now Kerry's probably going to write himself up for a Purple Heart (with valor) for putting his foot in his mouth.

Or maybe he will compare American servicemen and servicewomen to the army of Genghis Khan. Oh yeah, he already did that.



Hey John Kerry, Bin Laden called and he wants his talking points back.

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Tuesday, October 31, 2006 1:39 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
I'll be the first (percieved) left-type to say it,
BOY WAS THAT A DUMB THING TO SAY.

Unless context proves different, it was almost worthy of Rush.

Open mouth- insert foot Chrisisall



Context can't save Kerry from this. No where did he utter the words 'Bush' or 'The President' in regards to who his 'joke' was directed toward. Kerry was speaking to college students, and so when he's talking about " when YOU study hard and do your homework..." ,he's addressing the folks directly in front of him.

This is quite simply a window into what JF Kerry REALLY thinks of those who wear the uniforms in the US armed services. He called our soldiers 'monsters, rapist and murderes' back in 1971, and he's calling them uneducated losers today. The pure contempt for average Americans along with the elitist mindset this bastard has for the great unwashed , his own countrymen is plainly evident.

And this comment is light years beyond what anything Rush Limbaugh has said. Rush gets misquoted and lambasted by the liberal media, who loves to distort his words and meaning. Kerry not only said what he said, in context, and meant it, but has refused to apologize to the soldiers in Iraq, whom he unbelievably attacked and mocked.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Tuesday, October 31, 2006 1:40 PM

SUCCATASH


It’s wrong to assume that most people join the military because they are poor, lacking direction in life, or to get free college. In fact most of them do it to die for us. Kind of like Jesus, I say.

"Gott kann dich nicht vor mir beschuetzen, weil ich nicht boese bin."

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Tuesday, October 31, 2006 1:48 PM

CITIZEN


You're just taking his words out of context, if you haven't heard every word he's ever said you can't possibly understand what he means.

What, someone had to say it.

Rush, you pussy, you said what you said, time to appologiseheh heh heh...



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Tuesday, October 31, 2006 1:58 PM

ERIC


Nice try conservatards. What he's saying is that if you're uneducated and not independently wealthy your options are severely limited, and you're much more likely to end up fighting a rich man's war.

WHICH IS FUCKING TRUE.

Military recruiters consistently target children who are poor and not college-bound because they are more likely to join up. That is not a secret. Joining the military should be through free choice, not economic or educational coersion, but that just isn't the reality of it.

Do you really want your freedom to spout ignorant right wing bullshit to be defended by people who simply don't have anything better lined up?

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Tuesday, October 31, 2006 2:07 PM

CREVANREAVER


A Democratic congressman has apparently told ABC News: "I guess Kerry wasn't content blowing 2004, now he wants to blow 2006, too."

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/print?id=2619383

Anyway, Kerry's comments were of course the result of a Karl Rove stunt. Rove must have implanted a mind control device in Kerry's head to make him insult the troops and then have a hissy-fit after John McCain callout him out on it. Damn that Rove.

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Tuesday, October 31, 2006 2:11 PM

FUTUREMRSFILLION


Quote:

Originally posted by Skywalken:
At a campaign rally yesterday, the presidential candidate of the Democratic Party in 2004 said this: "You know, education, if you make the most of it, if you study hard and you do your homework, and you make an effort to be smart, uh, you can do well. If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."

Here's the video:

]

First of all, I can tell nothing by that few second sound bite. I would like to hear the entire speech.

As for belittling the servicemen and women. It is a fact that the military is peopled in the majority by poor and/or minority men and women who often do not have the option for anything else. I think it tells a sad truth. Have money and/or opportunity - do well in America, don't and get blown up in Iraq.


----
Bestower of Titles, Designer of Tshirts, Maker of Mottos, Keeper of the Pyre

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original


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Tuesday, October 31, 2006 2:12 PM

RAZZA


Rue:

I can't find the entire transcript either, but you can see the video at CNN.com, though not the entire speech (damn it!).

Kerry and his staff are saying it was a botched reference in a prepared speech that was supposed to be a veiled insult at Bush. He was appearantly supposed to say,"..."I can't overstress the importance of a great education. Do you know where you end up if you don't study, if you aren't smart, if you're intellectually lazy? You end up getting us stuck in a war in Iraq." It didn't come out that way, however.

Possibly a freudian slip? But then, since Bush made better grades than Kerry, perhaps he shouldn't be pointing fingers.

-----------------
"History is the version of past events that people have decided to agree upon."

---Napoleon Bonaparte

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Tuesday, October 31, 2006 2:26 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


And the funny thing is, Kerry is a highly educated person who joined the military. He should know better! He's an example!

---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

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Tuesday, October 31, 2006 2:29 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

You're just taking his words out of context, if you haven't heard every word he's ever said you can't possibly understand what he means. What, someone had to say it.
HAHAHAHAHA!!! The Limbaugh defense. Thanks Citizen for pointing out the right-wing double standard. Always ready to crucify the left, always ready to forgive the right.


---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

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Tuesday, October 31, 2006 2:30 PM

RAZZA


For those of you who are interested in learning more about the actual demographic makeup of the US Military, here is a link to a population report published by the Population Reference Bureau ( www.prb.org). The latest information is a few years old, but it's a pretty comprehensive report and interesting to look at.

http://www.prb.org/pdf04/59.4AmericanMilitary.pdf

-----------------
"History is the version of past events that people have decided to agree upon."

---Napoleon Bonaparte

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Tuesday, October 31, 2006 2:45 PM

ERIC


Quote:

Originally posted by Razza:
For those of you who are interested in learning more about the actual demographic makeup of the US Military, here is a link to a population report published by the Population Reference Bureau ( www.prb.org). The latest information is a few years old, but it's a pretty comprehensive report and interesting to look at.

http://www.prb.org/pdf04/59.4AmericanMilitary.pdf




Well, that didn't take long. Page 9:

"Enlistment is also predicted by parents’
education (children of collegeeducated
parents are less likely to
serve), high school grades (those with
higher grades are less likely to serve),
college plans (college students are less
likely to enlist), race and ethnicity
(African Americans and Hispanics are
more likely to serve than whites), and
attractiveness of military work roles."

Wow, Kerry is such a pussy coward bastard! He actually said....something true.

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Tuesday, October 31, 2006 2:46 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Eric:
Nice try conservatards. What he's saying is that if you're uneducated and not independently wealthy your options are severely limited, and you're much more likely to end up fighting a rich man's war.

WHICH IS FUCKING TRUE.

Military recruiters consistently target children who are poor and not college-bound because they are more likely to join up. That is not a secret. Joining the military should be through free choice, not economic or educational coersion, but that just isn't the reality of it.

Do you really want your freedom to spout ignorant right wing bullshit to be defended by people who simply don't have anything better lined up?



It's not true, and I know it, as I bet you know it too. Kerry said EXACTLY what he meant, and it's coming back to bite him. There is no draft today. There is no 'need' to join the military for those who don't wish to. We have a 100% volunteer military. A college education is by no means a ticket to a life of ease and leisure ( like John Kerry has ).

Per what Kerry actually said, it's clear who he was talking to ( college students ) and what his message was. Stay in school, study hard and get smart, or you'll be shipped to Iraq. He's so full of himself and thinks so highly of his own personal life experiece that he's convinced himself we're back in the 1960's and this is Viet Nam all over again.

It isn't. Kerry is delusional and a complete asshole.


It's funny as hell to see the Dimwads try to spin this, but no one is buying it. John McCain has called for an apology from Kerry to the troops, as has President Bush.

This is just the beginning. It's going to get much worse. For Kerry.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Tuesday, October 31, 2006 2:55 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:

You're just taking his words out of context, if you haven't heard every word he's ever said you can't possibly understand what he means. What, someone had to say it.
HAHAHAHAHA!!! The Limbaugh defense. Thanks Citizen for pointing out the right-wing double standard. Always ready to crucify the left, always ready to forgive the right.


---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.



But we HAVE heard every word Kerry said, and unlike Rush, who stood by his remarks, Kerry is trying the old "errr...uhh....what I MEANT to say is blah blah blah..and if you don't buy that, you must be crazy!! " excuse.

Ain't no one buying it, no how. So sorry, but no double standard here.


Kerry called our troops murders and rapists in Viet Nam back then, and calls them uneducated losers in Iraq today. Dontchya just FEEEEL the love Kerry has for the military ?

I love it!!! Kerry is going down in flames and he keeps tossing gasoline to quench the fire. Even his buddy Dems are running away from him now, least they get caught up in the firestorm!!

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Tuesday, October 31, 2006 2:58 PM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
It's funny as hell to see the Dimwads try to spin this, but no one is buying it. John McCain has called for an apology from Kerry to the troops, as has President Bush.

I think that was my point.

for Rush as well



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Tuesday, October 31, 2006 3:01 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
It's funny as hell to see the Dimwads try to spin this, but no one is buying it. John McCain has called for an apology from Kerry to the troops, as has President Bush.

I think that was my point.

for Rush as well




But Rush never had to spin his words. The hate filled Left wing media and the Dems simply don't like Rush, and what he stands for, so they misquoted him on purpose.

Kerry's situation is completely different.


"I believe Sen. Kerry owes an apology to many thousands of Americans serving in Iraq, who answered their country's call," said Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz

A Democratic congressman told ABC News Tuesday,[large] "I guess Kerry wasn't content blowing 2004, now he wants to blow 2006, too." [/large]

Copyright © 2006 ABC News Internet Ventures


People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Tuesday, October 31, 2006 3:11 PM

RAZZA


Quote:

Originally posted by Eric:
Well, that didn't take long. Page 9:

"Enlistment is also predicted by parents’
education (children of collegeeducated
parents are less likely to
serve), high school grades (those with
higher grades are less likely to serve),
college plans (college students are less
likely to enlist), race and ethnicity
(African Americans and Hispanics are
more likely to serve than whites), and
attractiveness of military work roles."

Wow, Kerry is such a pussy coward bastard! He actually said....something true.



Your welcome, I think. (ducking the bird sent my way for no appearant reason)

-----------------
"History is the version of past events that people have decided to agree upon."

---Napoleon Bonaparte

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Tuesday, October 31, 2006 3:14 PM

ERIC


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

It's not true, and I know it, as I bet you know it too. Kerry said EXACTLY what he meant, and it's coming back to bite him. There is no draft today. There is no 'need' to join the military for those who don't wish to. We have a 100% volunteer military. A college education is by no means a ticket to a life of ease and leisure ( like John Kerry has ).

Per what Kerry actually said, it's clear who he was talking to ( college students ) and what his message was. Stay in school, study hard and get smart, or you'll be shipped to Iraq. He's so full of himself and thinks so highly of his own personal life experiece that he's convinced himself we're back in the 1960's and this is Viet Nam all over again.

It isn't. Kerry is delusional and a complete asshole.


It's funny as hell to see the Dimwads try to spin this, but no one is buying it. John McCain has called for an apology from Kerry to the troops, as has President Bush.

This is just the beginning. It's going to get much worse. For Kerry.




Actually, I've read that during Vietnam, since there WAS a draft, there was more even representation of social, economic and I'm guessing educational classes than there is now. Unless your rich daddy could get you deferred or in the National Guard, which I believe didn't fight back then.

I know what he said, and I know what he meant to say. Either way, he's correct. Fewer educated and college-bound people join the military. I don't need a comprehensive demographic study (like the one above) to tell me that, all I have to do is remember back to high school. There weren't ANY JROTC kids in the advanced classes. None.

This has nothing to do with intelligence, of course. Intelligence and education are totally different things. In Bush's America, unfunded mandates, religiousized science, and slashed higher ed budgets all serve to restrict access to the unprivileged, and otherwise intelligent people have to make a choice between poverty and the military.

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Tuesday, October 31, 2006 3:15 PM

ERIC


Quote:

Originally posted by Razza:
[
Your welcome, I think. (ducking the bird sent my way for no appearant reason)




Nah, just the thread in general.

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Tuesday, October 31, 2006 3:22 PM

RIGHTEOUS9




You guys aren't going to get much traction out of this story. It's lame.

Sometimes the truth doesn't smell like roses. I want a politician who will not be so bloody careful with every word he says to the point of offending nobody and saying nothing. That was Kerry 2004 and it hurt him.

What did Kerry say that was incorrect? Accept a little bit of reality already.

The military is largely built of our poor. They just don't plain have many opportunities, and the military is one of the few honorable options, so they take it.

That doesn't make their sacrifice any less. That doesn't make them any less Americans. They are the ones who carry the biggest burden for this nation, and they get the least back for it.

Succatash

sure some of them joined up to defend their country, but instead, as Kerry said, they ended up getting stuck in Iraq. Something went really wrong there.

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Tuesday, October 31, 2006 3:25 PM

CITIZEN


@AURaptor
I saw the entire segment in question with Rush, I saw it for what it was. He was being a twat, to put it mildly. He then turns around and says "I was only describing things for my listeners".

Well standing there rolling your tongue into you bottom lip and making "nurrr nurrr" sounds could be said to be 'describing' someone who is mentally retarded too.

Kerry's two second sound bite can't be taken out of context and Rush's much longer video can? Please give me a break, you bought into one set of spin and not the other.

I don't buy into either, Rush was being an arsehole, accusing a terminally ill man of faking his illness, Kerry was being a moron, he might be telling the truth, but he made his statements like a retarded four year old.

Rush spun his words and actions, you bought into it because it came from the right (pun most defiantly intended) source. Personally I think Kerry is as well, you don't buy into it, I suspect, because that spin doesn't come from the 'right' source.

Please spare me, of course Kerry's situation is completely different, it's Kerry, and he's wrong, where as on the other hand it's Rush, and Rush is right.

This whole thing is so damn funny, and the funniest thing, the absolute icing on the cake is you don't even see it, you really don't get it man. You don't get that the exact same situation you were defending yesterday you're vilifying today, because it can't be the same situation, because, because, because Kerry that's why!

You just don't get it do you man. You just don't fucking get it.



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Tuesday, October 31, 2006 3:31 PM

RAZZA


Quote:

Originally posted by Eric:
Actually, I've read that during Vietnam, since there WAS a draft, there was more even representation of social, economic and I'm guessing educational classes than there is now. Unless your rich daddy could get you deferred or in the National Guard, which I believe didn't fight back then.



Take a look at page 19 of the report, it speaks to the racial disparity during the war. Doesn't really support your assumption, though this is only one source certainly.

"During the Vietnam War, the Kennedy administration departed from past practice and used the draft rather than the overwhelmingly white reserve components to mobilize American forces for Southeast Asia. When Kennedy assumed office, blacks were underrepresented in the military, but the Selective Service System
disproportionately drafted the poor during the early years of the Vietnam War, and black men were overrepresented among the poor. In the early
months of the Vietnam War, blacks accounted for about 20 percent of combat deaths in Vietnam, although they were only 11 percent of the military-age population. The high death toll for black soldiers led to claims of racial injustice—that blacks were fighting and dying to further the interests of white men, while still treated unfairly at home. Some critics saw further injustice in the fact that U.S. blacks were fighting and killing other nonwhites—the Vietnamese. To avoid the appearance of racial discrimination, the Pentagon reduced the assignment of blacks to combat jobs, and combat deaths for blacks fell to about 12 percent, closer to their share of the total U.S. population."

-----------------
"History is the version of past events that people have decided to agree upon."

---Napoleon Bonaparte

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Tuesday, October 31, 2006 3:45 PM

SKYWALKEN


Veteran groups have now called upon Kerry to apologize:

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/10/31/153-10312006.html

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/10/31/204-10312006.html

...and a Boston woman named Debra Booth, whose son was killed in Iraq has urged Kerry to learn more about the men and women of today's military.

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/10204420/detail.html

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Tuesday, October 31, 2006 3:52 PM

KANEMAN


Whoot!!! Whoot!!! A lib telling what he Really thinks of THE greatest military on earth... They are composed of POOR/uneducated people.....Yeah Okay...That fucking millionaire kennedy wantto be ..Sell his Awards for shit...

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Tuesday, October 31, 2006 4:12 PM

ERIC


Quote:

Originally posted by Razza:
Quote:


Take a look at page 19 of the report, it speaks to the racial disparity during the war. Doesn't really support your assumption, though this is only one source certainly.

"During the Vietnam War, the Kennedy administration departed from past practice and used the draft rather than the overwhelmingly white reserve components to mobilize American forces for Southeast Asia. When Kennedy assumed office, blacks were underrepresented in the military, but the Selective Service System
disproportionately drafted the poor during the early years of the Vietnam War, and black men were overrepresented among the poor. In the early
months of the Vietnam War, blacks accounted for about 20 percent of combat deaths in Vietnam, although they were only 11 percent of the military-age population. The high death toll for black soldiers led to claims of racial injustice—that blacks were fighting and dying to further the interests of white men, while still treated unfairly at home. Some critics saw further injustice in the fact that U.S. blacks were fighting and killing other nonwhites—the Vietnamese. To avoid the appearance of racial discrimination, the Pentagon reduced the assignment of blacks to combat jobs, and combat deaths for blacks fell to about 12 percent, closer to their share of the total U.S. population."




Okay, but in the later war years, was this still the case? In any case, I'll stipulate to the point since I don't remember where I heard it.

Anyways, I doubt this will change many votes. It's an interpretation of what was said by someone who is not up for reelection, and someone who is by now famous for saying the right thing in the wrong way.

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Tuesday, October 31, 2006 4:17 PM

KANEMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by kaneman:
It's not the October surprise, it's an early Christmas gift..Thanks Kerry...



Thanks

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Tuesday, October 31, 2006 4:20 PM

KNIBBLET


I heard what he said and my immediate thought was, "yep, our moron of a president and all of his idiot minions haven't learned a thing and we're going to stay bogged down in the meat grinder waste of life that is Bush's war for oil."

I don't believe for one moment that an actual war hero like John Kerry would badmouth troops. However, all of the service dodging assholes in Shrub's administration, they have no respect for anyone who doesn't have oil millions.

Sad that this badly worded statement was made before an election. It's only going to serve to steer debate away from where it should be ... what the hell has the republican controlled legislative branch given the American people besides
*more unemployed former-middle class families who no longer have health care or a retirement plan and
*more dead military members?




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Tuesday, October 31, 2006 4:26 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


I skimmed through it looking for some data on the socioeconomic status of volunteers. While the document makes of point of saying you have to be a high school graduate, it's coy about providing any figures at all, like, for example, household income and employment status.
--------------

What it does say is vague:

"A recent analysis of survey data on 100,000 high school seniors from the classes of 1984 to 1991 showed that parents’ level of education — a measure of socioeconomic status — was negatively related to joining the armed forces within two years of high school graduation. Again, however, the data suggest that the military does not draw from the very lowest social strata ...

With the end of military conscription in 1973, the armed forces have become the nation’s largest employer ..."

------------
And for the real information, you have to research your own. From the CIA world factbook you find that blacks make up almost exactly 13% of the US population; from a chart in the document they make up 27% of the army.

Quote:

Originally posted by Razza:
For those of you who are interested in learning more about the actual demographic makeup of the US Military, here is a link to a population report published by the Population Reference Bureau ( www.prb.org).
http://www.prb.org/pdf04/59.4AmericanMilitary.pdf


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Tuesday, October 31, 2006 4:26 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


dbl time

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Tuesday, October 31, 2006 4:59 PM

RAZZA


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
I skimmed through it looking for some data on the socioeconomic status of volunteers. While the document makes of point of saying you have to be a high school graduate, it's coy about providing any figures at all, like, for example, household income and employment status.



Yeah, I was disappointed in the lack of specifics, but I suspect it would be difficult to compile such information accurately. At any rate, I think it's pretty obvious for anyone with half a brain the those in the lowest rungs of our economic ladder make up a disproportionate percentage of our armed forces. I'm not convinced economic status is a reflection of their intellect, however. I've met plenty of dimwitted rich people in my day.

One other point I'd like to make concerns the theme of "Rich man's war and poor man's fight". I think this probably accurately describes every military action our country has ever participated in and is not by itself condemnation of the necessity for waging them.

-----------------
"History is the version of past events that people have decided to agree upon."

---Napoleon Bonaparte

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Tuesday, October 31, 2006 5:55 PM

MISBEHAVEN


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

John Kerry is a coward and a liar. He said what he said, and he doesn't even have the balls to admit he's wrong. What a fucking pussy.



Elegantly stated as usual. Although I guess you need to vent a little after the beating you took on the MJ Fox thread.

Well, as one of the token liberals, I'm sure you're ready for me to defend Kerry. Get set for disappointment AURaptor, because I'm not going to. I've only seen a ten second clip on CNN, but it was one of the most foolish things a politician has said since...oh, I don't know...Bush last spoke.

What really fascinates me, however, is your complete inability to recognize that you are now doing the very thing you were accusing so many others of doing on the MJ Fox thread. Rush tried to spin his way out of the MJ Fox comments, and Kerry is going to try and spin his way out of his remarks. While you were more than willing to accept Rush's spin, you're attacking Kerry for trying the same thing. Here's where we differ: I won't defend a politician or a political pundit who makes asinine statements, and then attempts to spin his way out of it.











A dog can't tell a Nazi from a Republican from a Commie from a Democrat and, many times, neither can I.
-Charles Bukowski

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Tuesday, October 31, 2006 6:17 PM

MISBEHAVEN




And now, time for a little levity:

KERRY: HOW DO YOU ASK ME TO ‘DIE’ FOR MY LAST MISTAKE?


John Kerry, who was mercilessly “Swift-Boated” in the 2004 Presidential election, apparently committed the equivalent of Swift-Boat hari-kari today by a clumsy and inartful comment about the Idiot-in-Chief.

Although Kerry’s clear intent was to blame Bush’s lack of education for the mess in Iraq, the Republican smear machine immediately twisted this into a slur on the troops, showing the type of creativity and responsiveness that was noticeably absent by the Administration during Katrina and Iraq.

The GOP was so elated at this election-eve development that they dropped their planned “November Surprise” — code-named “Osama, Call Me” — a plot to elicit another bin Laden videotape.

But Kerry’s remark — “If you make an effort to be smart, you can do well; if you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq” — received widespread support from some unexpected quarters.

Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki came to Kerry’s defense, stating that “maybe if I had studied a bit more in school and gotten a job with a Western think tank, I wouldn’t be stuck these days in living hell, between these freakin’ crazy Shia and Sunnis.”

Bush, in full campaign mode, called Kerry’s statement “shameful,” asserting that “education has nothing to do with whether you serve your country in time of war — everybody knows it really depends on who your Daddy is.”






A dog can't tell a Nazi from a Republican from a Commie from a Democrat and, many times, neither can I.
-Charles Bukowski

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Tuesday, October 31, 2006 6:30 PM

DREAMTROVE


Quote:

But Rush never had to spin his words.


Whatever.

As for Kerry, no one is posting this, which surprises me.

Hey, guys, this is the shiny distraction thingy. This is *not* the news story of the day.

News flash: This isn't news.

Kerry is a moron. What else is new. If Kerry says something dumb, that's not news either. If it was the top headline everytime John Kerry said something dumb, there would be no room for anything else.

Here's the real news story of the day:

http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?NewsID=1061375

Sure, this is the part of me that I inherited from pirate news, but I'm serious. Some msm zombies kick around and say "what can we cover this very bad news with. what happened today? oh, we have kerry saying something dumb, ie. what else is new? "

and sure, to be fair and balanced, i'm sure bush saying something dumb just as common, but we covered this in a thread a long time ago about how they were both straight c students in college.

but kerry's brain dead soldier slander isn't news. kerry isn't even a contender anymore. he's a random non-influential senator. remember msm saying after he lost in '04 "oh kerry will become an inspirational leader in the senate now" no he's not. he'll be the same dolt he was for the last 20 years. a dumb senator's rant is hardly worth covering.

what else are they going to cover, ted kennedy's slip where he referred to barrack obama as osama bin laden, or howard dean's hide the salami remark? And sure, I know you democrats out there have some choice dumb things republicans said... but my real point here is ... smoke screen, sound familiar?

major news story was knocked off the top spot unmanned robot slaughters kids, destroys school. Pretty major news. Never happened before. 83 people. makes that robot the world's deadliest serial spree killer. forget columbine, show us you armed predator drones. remember when jay rockafeller was pushing for arming the predator drone? well happy day, look what the cat dragged in.

reading this thread, and no offense, but for a bunch of renegades, it looks like the MSM says jump and y'all say how high?

focus, people.

real world events. robot slaughters school is a real world event. wind bag blows wind is not a real world event. It's hollow words of a moron with no power. it's fluff.

john who? I mean, he probably gets together with al gore, bob dole and michael dukakis and they talk about how much better it would be *if*, but who cares?

focus. real world events. this is not real world event. it was put on the front page to distract you.

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Tuesday, October 31, 2006 7:44 PM

MALBADLATIN


Dems are in duck, cover and roll mode. Will be interesting if this story has legs or not and how much it can be milked for.


Headline: Kerry fumbles on 1 yard line, dems huddle for field goal.

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Tuesday, October 31, 2006 7:49 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Elegantly stated as usual. Although I guess you need to vent a little after the beating you took on the MJ Fox thread.

Well, as one of the token liberals, I'm sure you're ready for me to defend Kerry. Get set for disappointment AURaptor, because I'm not going to. I've only seen a ten second clip on CNN, but it was one of the most foolish things a politician has said since...oh, I don't know...Bush last spoke.

What really fascinates me, however, is your complete inability to recognize that you are now doing the very thing you were accusing so many others of doing on the MJ Fox thread. Rush tried to spin his way out of the MJ Fox comments, and Kerry is going to try and spin his way out of his remarks. While you were more than willing to accept Rush's spin, you're attacking Kerry for trying the same thing. Here's where we differ: I won't defend a politician or a political pundit who makes asinine statements, and then attempts to spin his way out of it.



I took no 'beating' on the MJ Fox thread. But keep thinking that, if it helps ya sleep better at night.

What amazes me is the need for some folks to try to equate everything as being exactly equal. Kerry's comments = Rush's comments. Sorry, but the 2 are light years apart. Different topics, different comments, differences in accountability. Rush tried and tried to explain his position, and all the media was interested in was falsly reporting that Rush 'attacked' MJ Fox and made fun of him. Utter nonsense. Kerry makes the assinine statement that is being UNIVERSALLY condemned by the Left and Right, and he refuses to not only apologize, but to even CLARIFY his comments. Kerry doesn't even have the decency to say he's sorry! Rush apologized to those who mistook what he said, and the Left refused to accept the apology! Talk about double standards!

I'm not attacking Kerry for anything other than what he ACTUALLY said. That's all. To bring in any other irrelevent topic and ignore what Kerry said is to simply ignore the initial topic.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Tuesday, October 31, 2006 7:52 PM

CHARLES


Kerry was OBVIOUSLY referring to Bush when he made those remarks. Here's the snippet from the AP story:

It came during a campaign rally for California Democratic gubernatorial candidate Phil Angelides. Kerry opened his speech at Pasadena City College with several one-liners, saying at one point that Bush had lived in Texas but now "lives in a state of denial."

He then said: "You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."

Find it here: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061101/ap_on_go_pr_wh/white_house_kerry

The "He then said" indicates that Kerry was following up his poking fun at Bush (state of denial anyone?) with a shot at Bush's intelligence. Bush didn't do his homework, he didn't study hard, and now he's stuck in Iraq.

Then again, I'm not surprised that Bush and his crew are having trouble understanding this... I mean, they screwed up that whole "WMD in Iraq" thing... so why should they be expected to read more than two sentences in context, right?

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Tuesday, October 31, 2006 8:01 PM

MALBADLATIN


Ace of Spades quote:


I knew someone, like Bill Maher, would say "Hey, it's true" (right before denying that John Kerry intended to speak the truth).

I should have figured Chris Matthews too. He's been on this Army of Losers thing for a while.

Smart, college-educated chappies like him dodged the draft by joining the Peace Corps.

I just find it pretty ballsy that liberals are going to try the two-track strategy of 1) Kerry would never have said something so heinously awful and 2) what John Kerry said was 100% spot-on accurate.

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Tuesday, October 31, 2006 10:47 PM

RIGHTEOUS9


MalBadLatin...

it is weird. I'm still not sure what to think of the issue and that's part of the problem.

On first read, I believed what Kerry said was true. I thought he used specific words that sounded off the cusp and cruder than they should have been, but that his message was that there was disproportionate weight we shift to our soldiers for little reward, and how their lives are at stake for our governments missteps.

I still want that to be what he said, but since his handlers and he himself have distanced him from this criticism of the American Status quo, I cannot wholly defend Kerry on this point.

There remains 3 options that I consider...

1 - He thought his wording was bad enough that he waffled and changed the meaning of his statement...smart politics but cowardice and pretty much more of the same democratic party over the last 6 years. Kerry has been braver lately though, after his 2004 loss, and I don't think that backpedaling will be in his political arsenal any more.

2 - He really did accidetly drop the word and meant this as a veiled political joke at Bush's expense, in which case I think the word choices weren't strong enough for me to catch that they were stilted towards such a joke. I didn't think they were particularly disparaging. This option is somewhat disapointing, because I'd like to hear a politician actually talk about stuff nobody is talking about. Instead it was just a political jibe...warranted, but completely within the main-stream.

3 - This was a calculated misstep...intentionally placed to cause a media response, with a built-in out for Kerry, giving him a mouthpiece and spotlight to look and sound tough by not backing down, and also giving him an opportunity to very publically bash Bush's failures in Iraq. This option sounds kind of sly, but I don't really buy it.






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Wednesday, November 1, 2006 1:18 AM

SERGEANTX


The most important thing is that this incident proves, beyond any doubt, that Bush has actually been a great leader for the last two years. Wow, who'd a thunk it?

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Wednesday, November 1, 2006 5:10 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:



What amazes me is the need for some folks to try to equate everything as being exactly equal. Kerry's comments = Rush's comments. Sorry, but the 2 are light years apart.

Well yeah, Kerry was being dumb, and Limbo was being malicious.
You're right; they are different.

We agree, how weird is that?

Quote:

I took no 'beating' on the MJ Fox thread.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Good one, always ready with the funny you are!

Who's laughing now Chrisisall

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Wednesday, November 1, 2006 5:40 AM

FELLOWTRAVELER


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

But we HAVE heard every word Kerry said, and unlike Rush, who stood by his remarks...



or

Quote:

Rush apologized to those who mistook what he said...


Well, which one is it, chief? Because it can't be both.

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Wednesday, November 1, 2006 6:16 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by FellowTraveler:

Well, which one is it, chief? Because it can't be both.


Why not? Rush stood by his remarks, but apologized for those who mistook what he said.

Kerry launched an attack. Why? Because he's haunted by the failure to make a timely reply to the Swift-boat Vets in '06. His lesson now, a timely reply does not require an attack. I think an apology to the troops followed by an attack on the policy would have been more effective.

Instead he tried to run from both what he said and from his own role in the policy he is against. He can't escape both, which is why he really lost in 2004 and now in 2008 as well.

H

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Wednesday, November 1, 2006 6:45 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
[B
I took no 'beating' on the MJ Fox thread. But keep thinking that, if it helps ya sleep better at night.



You took no "beating" because as soon as your parroted talking points were shot down, you took your usual cowards-way-out, and dissapeared from the thread.

Classic AURaptor SOP.

You took no beating 'cause you ran.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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