REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

If Bill Gates ran for president, he would win

POSTED BY: SUCCATASH
UPDATED: Friday, January 5, 2007 15:36
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 2963
PAGE 1 of 1

Sunday, December 31, 2006 6:48 PM

SUCCATASH


Would you vote for Bill Gates to be president of the USA?

He would win, don't you think?

"Gott kann dich nicht vor mir beschuetzen, weil ich nicht boese bin."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, December 31, 2006 6:59 PM

YINYANG

You were busy trying to get yourself lit on fire. It happens.


No. Too big business-y. Makes me think of the Alliance...


Rules on voting here: http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=22892

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, December 31, 2006 9:58 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Why would Gates give up world domination just to run the USA?

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, December 31, 2006 11:07 PM

SOUPCATCHER


All your votes are belong to us.

Happy Fucking New Year everyone

* edit to add: I want to stress that it is very important to walk down the street at least once in your life screaming at the top of your lungs, "Happy Fucking New Year." And if your street happens to be the Las Vegas Strip, even better. There's nothing quite like being drunk off your ass in Vegas on New Years. Too bad that's not me this year .


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, December 31, 2006 11:58 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


And let me be the first to wish you Merry Christmas!

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, January 1, 2007 12:04 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


And a happy New Year !!!

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, January 1, 2007 1:59 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by Succatash:
Would you vote for Bill Gates to be president of the USA?

He would win.

"Gott kann dich nicht vor mir beschuetzen, weil ich nicht boese bin."

I think it would be a good thing.

You're the guys whose presidents keep getting assassinated, right?



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, January 1, 2007 6:59 AM

FIZZIX


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:
Quote:

Originally posted by Succatash:
Would you vote for Bill Gates to be president of the USA?

He would win.

"Gott kann dich nicht vor mir beschuetzen, weil ich nicht boese bin."

I think it would be a good thing.

You're the guys whose presidents keep getting assassinated, right?



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.



This is literally in my AIM profile... "We're going to kill Bill Gates one day, and realize he's just a hologram."

And you know, we can afford to kill him off. We can't afford to have such a... ... IDIOT in office. I know this man's not a good thing. I've not the importance of mind to be politically aware just yet, but that's gonna change, and I'll form an opinion on our current president.

No. Bill Gates would throw money around, and he'd get bombed, and he'd say "but we've got a new crappy OS that all major computers are gonna carry, so we can do this, forget the bomb damage!"

/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\
May not be smart, and it may not please you, but you're definitely gonna see what I have to say.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, January 1, 2007 7:22 AM

SUCCATASH


Well, my general thoughts on Bill Gates: He's shrewd, super smart. How can anyone say he's an idiot? He's great at hiring the right people and he actually listens to them. He doesn't need to be a decorated war veteran - he would listen to his generals.

If his administration announced they were going to look at revamping social security, it would finally be time to sit up and pay attention, because of all people he could actually do it.

He's also so rich that he would not get corrupted by bribes from lobbyists.

I look at all the candidates for '08, and I'm not that impressed. Bill Gates would do much better than anyone currently on the list. And he's so successfull and famous, if he launched a campaign I bet he'd win.






"Gott kann dich nicht vor mir beschuetzen, weil ich nicht boese bin."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, January 1, 2007 10:12 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

He's also so rich that he would not get corrupted by bribes from lobbyists.
Except of course he's one of the lobbyist that does the corrupting, so you wouldn't need to worry about him being corrupted to get the same result.



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, January 1, 2007 10:26 AM

BAGHEERA


Why would someone waste the time, money, and energy running for an office they already own ?

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, January 1, 2007 10:27 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Billy boy got where he did by having rich parents and having no scruples. Please note that Billy's programming 'talent' was in taking PUBLIC DOMAIN products (invented by others) and turning them into private u-soft property. His 'business acumen' lay in his contacts (his mommy got him the IBM contract - which he never fulfilled), lack of ethics and illegal methods.

"BASIC was first developed by John Kemeny and Thomas Kurtz at Dartmouth College in the mid-1960s. Basic had been around for many years before Bill implemented a version of it . ... it is not that impressive technically to take public domain code from one machine and port it to another. It was also very questionable (ethically) to sell a language who's definition was in public domain, and develop it on computer time borrowed from a school."

Age 20 1975 - "Gates & Allen, in a pattern that was to repeat time and time again, see an opportunity to rework an existing product (BASIC) for a new market."

"Age 25 1980 - Mary Gates (Bill's Mom) and a high level Executive at IBM (Akers) were chatting, and ... Well one thing lead to another, and Bill got a visit from IBM. This is another big secret to success -- be born into the right family, and get the right contacts."

"Bill Gates didn't even have a DOS, but he convinced IBM he was almost finished with one. (Another element of business Genius seems to be being a pathological liar). Perhaps (IBM's u-soft favorable contract) had something to do with the President of IBM telling the small team creating the PC to "see Mary Gates son Bill" that influenced them ..."

"Microsoft then bought DOS off someone else ... (which) was actually a cheap rip-off (clone) product of a friend of Gates ... - but therein lies another part of Genius; the lack of integrity/scruples."

And so on.

Come to think of it, yes, I think with his background he'd make a great politician. He's got all the right qualifications.

http://www.jmusheneaux.com/9000ff.htm

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, January 1, 2007 10:47 AM

EMBERS


Quote:

Originally posted by Succatash:
Well, my general thoughts on Bill Gates: He's shrewd, super smart. How can anyone say he's an idiot? He's great at hiring the right people and he actually listens to them. He doesn't need to be a decorated war veteran - he would listen to his generals.

If his administration announced they were going to look at revamping social security, it would finally be time to sit up and pay attention, because of all people he could actually do it.

He's also so rich that he would not get corrupted by bribes from lobbyists.

I look at all the candidates for '08, and I'm not that impressed. Bill Gates would do much better than anyone currently on the list. And he's so successfull and famous, if he launched a campaign I bet he'd win


not saying he couldn't govern...
just saying he could NEVER win;
everyone who loves technology, hates microsoft
everyone who hates technology would also vote against him...
plus he cannot speak publicly to save his life.

So not an idiot, just not electable.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, January 1, 2007 11:00 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


"So not an idiot, just not electable."

Unless he controls the voting machines ....

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, January 1, 2007 11:16 AM

SUCCATASH


This link sums it up nicely, LOL.

http://dilbertblog.typepad.com/the_dilbert_blog/2006/11/bill_gates_for
_.html


The man took one look at capitalism and beat it like a 14-year old boy with unrestricted Internet access. Bill Gates is a winner. Wouldn’t you prefer having him on your side for a change, beating the crap out of North Korea instead of Netscape?

Forget about whatever Bill Gates did in the past that made you curl up with your free copy of Linux and cry. In his first week in office he’d probably link Microsoft Virtual Earth to the government’s spy satellites so you can look for Osama yourself.


"Gott kann dich nicht vor mir beschuetzen, weil ich nicht boese bin."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, January 1, 2007 12:55 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


"In his first week in office he’d probably link Microsoft Virtual Earth to the government’s spy satellites so you can look for Osama yourself."

Bill would have lots of computing power, as he has back-door access to u-soft systems around the globe. But his vulnerable and still buggy systems could send those same spy satellites crashing to earth, while locking-up computers everywhere. And do you really think he'd care about bin Laden ?? What with all authority at his back, he'd probably be looking into your computer trying to figure out a way to convert you, finally, totally, and irrevocably to u-soft. Goodbye google. The u-soft jihad is at hand !

Convert, or die !

(PS I think Melinda is the humanitarian. Billy never seemed that much interested until she twisted his - whatever. And even that took a while. And as Dr Phil says, the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. Billy boy's past? Uh, lying, cheating, stealing and breaking the law for his own benefit and power. Which still qualifies him as a politician, just not the way one might prefer.)


NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, January 1, 2007 8:38 PM

SOUPCATCHER


Thanks, Rue! Merry Christmas and Happy New Year right back atchya .

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, January 2, 2007 1:44 AM

PIRATECAT


I would sleep with Bill for a million. Not that I flush corpses. I'm not crazy like that. We are talking Bill G not Bill C. Ok maybe less it only paid be a grand for Perot.


"Battle of Serenity, Mal. Besides Zoe here, how many-" "I'm talkin at you! How many men in your platoon came out of their alive".

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, January 2, 2007 10:01 AM

OPPYH


If Bill Gates ran for president he would win, and deservingly so. He's a good guy, I'd vote for him.

I hear Schwarzenagger is trying to get some laws overturned to run in 2012. If it works out for him, he may have a chance.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, January 2, 2007 10:44 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Billy's a good guy? Did you not read how his main accomplishment was having his mom get him a sweet deal from the president of IBM? Did you not read how he stole, cheated, lied and stabbed his friends in the back for personal gain?

Unless, of course, you think those are good things ...

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, January 2, 2007 11:22 AM

OPPYH


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
Billy's a good guy? Did you not read how his main accomplishment was having his mom get him a sweet deal from the president of IBM? Did you not read how he stole, cheated, lied and stabbed his friends in the back for personal gain?

Unless, of course, you think those are good things ...



Buisness, and friendship are two entirely different things, and they should never mix.
Shrewd, and smart are his best qualities.

Now when I say he's a good guy, I will explain:
When there is an individual who is mega rich, and gives a small percentage to charity(around $60,000,000) each year, that is a good person. His buisness ethic, and human qualities are very different. Now, if his coduct were the exact same for both, there would be problems.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, January 2, 2007 11:35 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by OPPYH:
Now when I say he's a good guy, I will explain:
When there is an individual who is mega rich, and gives a small percentage to charity(around $60,000,000) each year, that is a good person.

Or a person who likes good publicity.



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, January 2, 2007 12:09 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


"When there is an individual who is mega rich, and gives a small percentage to charity(around $60,000,000) each year, that is a good person."

I personally suspect Melinda is his better half. She probably suggested it and he saw the opportunities.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, January 2, 2007 1:10 PM

OPPYH


Being as rich as he is, of course there will be much negativity directed toward him, but how much is deserved, and how much is just envy? Bill Gates is the realization of the american dream. He pioneered an idea, and became rich.
He's not evil, and he doesn't want to conquer the world. How many billionares resteraunt of choice is Burger King? I make less than 30k a year, and I think i'm too good for Burger King.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, January 2, 2007 1:55 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


This is from earlier up. Read and get back to me.



Billy boy got where he did by having rich parents and having no scruples. Please note that Billy's programming 'talent' was in taking PUBLIC DOMAIN products (invented by others) and turning them into private u-soft property. His 'business acumen' lay in his contacts (his mommy got him the IBM contract - which he never fulfilled), lack of ethics and illegal methods.

"BASIC was first developed by John Kemeny and Thomas Kurtz at Dartmouth College in the mid-1960s. Basic had been around for many years before Bill implemented a version of it . ... it is not that impressive technically to take public domain code from one machine and port it to another. It was also very questionable (ethically) to sell a language who's definition was in public domain, and develop it on computer time borrowed from a school."

Age 20 1975 - "Gates & Allen, in a pattern that was to repeat time and time again, see an opportunity to rework an existing product (BASIC) for a new market."

"Age 25 1980 - Mary Gates (Bill's Mom) and a high level Executive at IBM (Akers) were chatting, and ... Well one thing lead to another, and Bill got a visit from IBM. This is another big secret to success -- be born into the right family, and get the right contacts."

"Bill Gates didn't even have a DOS, but he convinced IBM he was almost finished with one. (Another element of business Genius seems to be being a pathological liar). Perhaps (IBM's u-soft favorable contract) had something to do with the President of IBM telling the small team creating the PC to "see Mary Gates son Bill" that influenced them ..."

"Microsoft then bought DOS off someone else ... (which) was actually a cheap rip-off (clone) product of a friend of Gates ... - but therein lies another part of Genius; the lack of integrity/scruples."

And so on.

Come to think of it, yes, I think with his background he'd make a great politician. He's got all the right qualifications.

http://www.jmusheneaux.com/9000ff.htm

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, January 2, 2007 11:34 PM

OPPYH


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
This is from earlier up. Read and get back to me.



Billy boy got where he did by having rich parents and having no scruples. Please note that Billy's programming 'talent' was in taking PUBLIC DOMAIN products (invented by others) and turning them into private u-soft property. His 'business acumen' lay in his contacts (his mommy got him the IBM contract - which he never fulfilled), lack of ethics and illegal methods.

"BASIC was first developed by John Kemeny and Thomas Kurtz at Dartmouth College in the mid-1960s. Basic had been around for many years before Bill implemented a version of it . ... it is not that impressive technically to take public domain code from one machine and port it to another. It was also very questionable (ethically) to sell a language who's definition was in public domain, and develop it on computer time borrowed from a school."

Age 20 1975 - "Gates & Allen, in a pattern that was to repeat time and time again, see an opportunity to rework an existing product (BASIC) for a new market."

"Age 25 1980 - Mary Gates (Bill's Mom) and a high level Executive at IBM (Akers) were chatting, and ... Well one thing lead to another, and Bill got a visit from IBM. This is another big secret to success -- be born into the right family, and get the right contacts."

"Bill Gates didn't even have a DOS, but he convinced IBM he was almost finished with one. (Another element of business Genius seems to be being a pathological liar). Perhaps (IBM's u-soft favorable contract) had something to do with the President of IBM telling the small team creating the PC to "see Mary Gates son Bill" that influenced them ..."

"Microsoft then bought DOS off someone else ... (which) was actually a cheap rip-off (clone) product of a friend of Gates ... - but therein lies another part of Genius; the lack of integrity/scruples."

And so on.

Come to think of it, yes, I think with his background he'd make a great politician. He's got all the right qualifications.

http://www.jmusheneaux.com/9000ff.htm



Your points are taken, but....there is such a thing called the spirit of invention. Kind of like this: if you are on to something, and have a direct idea of what to do with that something, and how to do it, you will do it by any means necessary.
Alexander Graham Bell did not invent the telephone. Check this out- Bell developed new and original ideas but did so by building on older ideas and developments. Bell succeeded specifically because he understood acoustics, the study of sound, and something about electricity. Other inventors knew electricity well but little of acoustics. The telephone is a shared accomplishment among many pioneers, therefore, although the credit and rewards were not shared equally. That, too, is often the story of invention.

My point is this: A caveman spots a small brush fire in the forrest, he grabs a long branch ignites the end of it, brings it back to his caveman friends in the cave, they make the fire burn bigger on more branches. Presto, those cavemen are eating roast brontosaur, with smoked fish appatizers in no time. Did the caveman who spotted the fire invent it? Heck no, he pulled off a simple task, but a task that was needed to progress the human species. That is the spirit of invention.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, January 3, 2007 2:44 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


But Billy boy wasn't on to anything except how to take software others invented and turn it into his property. Billy and u-soft have never been inventors, just parasites.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, January 3, 2007 6:41 AM

SHINYED


It's a bit hard to knock Mr. Gates, considering all the money he gives to charity. What I personally object to about him are his choices of who gets his money.

He gives almost all of it to Aids and Aids related issues...I've never seen or heard anything about him giving money to things like :

Kids with cancer
Abused kids
Abused women
Kids with other incurable diseases (Make a Wish)
Crippled kids

He chooses to give his billions to Aids, a disease that is mostly a lifestyle choice....millions of sick kids and abused women don't seem to concern him.


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, January 3, 2007 7:48 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


And you have to calculate how much of a sacrifice he's making, how much is done for tax reasons, and how much he's doing for business goodwill.

sacrifice:
If I'm making $10,000 a year with no other assets and give $500 to charity, it's a really big deal. I'm cutting into money I need for necessities. If I'm making a few billion a year with $50 billion in personal assets, and give away a million, that still leaves me with $49.9 thousand million. Hardly a step down in lifestyle by any stretch of the imagination.

tax benefit:
Billy is notorious for donating 'his' product (which was invented by others and was in the public domain) at full market value. Not only does he get a tax write-off, but he inculcates his software into education systems around the globe. Slick market domination, n'est-pas? He also was allowed to pay off his DOJ monopoly fines in u-soft product 'donations'.

goodwill
Aside form the tax and market $$ benefits (above), well, there is the 'goodwill' he earns. Does it work? Just look at the postings on the board. Apparently people think he's a genius and Robin Hood all in one. A personal success story who was just like you and me who 'made it' in business out of luck and pluck'. Who's now giving away his fortune to others. In fact he's from a privileged background. He stole from you and me twice - one in appropriating public goods and then again in selling them back to us. And he's 'giving' away our money at a rate which doesn't begin to diminish his lifestyle. Genius? Robin Hood? Hardly.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, January 3, 2007 8:32 AM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


Quote:


Originally posted by rue:

sacrifice:
If I'm making $10,000 a year with no other assets and give $500 to charity, it's a really big deal. I'm cutting into money I need for necessities. If I'm making a few billion a year with $50 billion in personal assets, and give away a million, that still leaves me with $49.9 thousand million. Hardly a step down in lifestyle by any stretch of the imagination.



Charity is only good and noble if you bankrupt yourself in the process?

Quote:


tax benefit:
Billy is notorious for donating 'his' product (which was invented by others and was in the public domain) at full market value. Not only does he get a tax write-off, but he inculcates his software into education systems around the globe. Slick market domination, n'est-pas? He also was allowed to pay off his DOJ monopoly fines in u-soft product 'donations'.



Rich people should not be allowed a tax write-off like everyone else? Perhaps no one should be allowed a tax write-off for charitable donations. Then and only then shall we see the true philanthropists.

Quote:


goodwill
Aside form the tax and market $$ benefits (above), well, there is the 'goodwill' he earns. Does it work? Just look at the postings on the board. Apparently people think he's a genius and Robin Hood all in one. A personal success story who was just like you and me who 'made it' in business out of luck and pluck'. Who's now giving away his fortune to others. In fact he's from a privileged background. He stole from you and me twice - one in appropriating public goods and then again in selling them back to us. And he's 'giving' away our money at a rate which doesn't begin to diminish his lifestyle. Genius? Robin Hood? Hardly.



The jig is up Bill, stop giving away your ill-gotten money to charity. Buy yourself another few houses and take the rest with you when you go.

Posting to stir stuff up.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, January 3, 2007 9:51 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


I was just disputing the presumptions that because he's rich he must be a genuis; and because he gives away an insignificant amount of his wealth he's a hero. I didn't say or even imply any of the things you posted.

You should have a different sign-off - posting strawmen to derail debate

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, January 3, 2007 10:36 AM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


Quote:


Originally posted by rue:
I was just disputing the presumptions that because he's rich he must be a genuis; and because he gives away an insignificant amount of his wealth he's a hero. I didn't say or even imply any of the things you posted.



You did see the question marks in my previous post right?

Quote:


You should have a different sign-off - posting strawmen to derail debate



Do as you say, not as you do?

Posting to stir stuff up.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, January 3, 2007 10:40 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Well, you just used the quote function, along with, well, quotes to frame your argument. Oh, and posting your arguments as 'rhetorical' questions doesn't get you off the hook.

Should you have a different sign-off - posting strawmen to derail debate?

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, January 3, 2007 11:03 AM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


Quote:


Originally posted by rue:
Well, you just used the quote function, along with, well, quotes to frame your argument.



And the whole time I thought I was quoting your post and questioning you on the referenced quotes.

Quote:


Oh, and posting your arguments as 'rhetorical' questions doesn't get you off the hook.



What about my questions was rhetorical? I am trying to get a handle on your extreme distaste for Bill Gates and your Franciscan views on charity.
And what or who's hook am I trying to get off of?



Posting to stir stuff up.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, January 3, 2007 11:34 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
What about my questions was rhetorical? I am trying to get a handle on your extreme distaste for Bill Gates and your Franciscan views on charity.

I think the point is that there is a difference between Charity and cheap advertising.

I give a larger percentage of my wage to charity than Bill Gates, no one calls my a hero, most call me a C**T around here, although being hated by some of the people who post here can be nothing short of a badge of pride.

Point is I don't give money to charity for personal gain, I rather suspect Bill does.



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, January 3, 2007 12:39 PM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


Quote:


Originally posted by citizen:
I think the point is that there is a difference between Charity and cheap advertising.

I give a larger percentage of my wage to charity than Bill Gates, no one calls my a hero, most call me a C**T around here, although being hated by some of the people who post here can be nothing short of a badge of pride.

Point is I don't give money to charity for personal gain, I rather suspect Bill does.



Perhaps Bill should be more like Branson and spend all of his money on breaking records and space travel.
The guy gives millions to charities through the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_%26_Melinda_Gates_Foundation
and it is simply cheap publicity because he still has loads more money.
Do you think charitable donations are only valid if they meet a certain percentage of a person's net worth?
Do you think the numerous organizations that receive support from the foundation care?
Do your charitable donations mean more because you have less money than Bill even though, and I'm guessing here, he has donated several million more up until now than you?
Can rich people actually have a social conscience or should all acts of philanthropy be questioned for ulterior motives?
That's right, I'm just brimming with questions today.


Posting to stir stuff up.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, January 3, 2007 1:03 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Nobody,

OK, here is an analysis of your straw-man arguments (ellipses to save space).

Quote:


Originally posted by rue:
sacrifice:
If I'm making $10,000 a year with no other assets and give $500 to charity, it's a really big deal ...

Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
Charity is only good and noble if you bankrupt yourself in the process?

I was responding to others who felt that Billy's donations were some measure of deep internal goodness. My point was that since those donations amount to an infinitesimal fraction of a penny - relatively speaking - they seemed more like trivial gestures. At best. But you missed the point and argued that I said one had to bankrupt themselves to be charitable. Please, find me that quote.

Quote:


Originally posted by rue:
tax benefit:
Billy is notorious for donating 'his' product (which was invented by others and was in the public domain) at full market value ...

Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
Rich people should not be allowed a tax write-off like everyone else?

You sort-of missed the point, again. Did I even come close to saying it was a tax-code problem? No, I said it was the nature of the 'gift'. That's what makes this yet another straw-man argument. You are arguing against a point I didn't make.

Quote:


Originally posted by rue:
goodwill
Aside from the tax and market $$ benefits (above), well, there is the 'goodwill' he earns. ... Genius? Robin Hood? Hardly.

Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
The jig is up Bill, stop giving away your ill-gotten money to charity.

Well here you posted yet another straw-man argument. That's three out of three if you're counting. Did I say he should stop giving his money to charity? Please, feel free to find it. What I said was giving away money doesn't make him into something he's not.

So please go back to lurking until you can discuss like an adult.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, January 3, 2007 1:35 PM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
Perhaps Bill should be more like Branson and spend all of his money on breaking records and space travel.


I fail to see how that's equivalent? No one is saying Branson's space and record breaking endeavours make him a good person.
Quote:

The guy gives millions to charities through the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_%26_Melinda_Gates_Foundation
and it is simply cheap publicity because he still has loads more money.

It's also cheap publicity because it costs less for the same benefit as regular forms. Ergo.
Quote:

Do you think charitable donations are only valid if they meet a certain percentage of a person's net worth?
No, I'm pretty sure the money is still there. But there's such a thing as perspective, for instance, whose more charitable, the man who has two cans of baked beans and gives on away, or a man who has a million and gives away ten?
Quote:

Do you think the numerous organizations that receive support from the foundation care?
No, why does this matter? You say he's a good man because he gives money to charity, I say the act of giving money away doesn't automatically make someone good.
Quote:

Do your charitable donations mean more because you have less money than Bill even though, and I'm guessing here, he has donated several million more up until now than you?
On a practical level, of course not, on a personal one, I don't really know, I haven't thought about any charitable donations I make in that way. Does being rich and therefore having more money to give automatically make someone a better person?
Quote:

Can rich people actually have a social conscience
I think I could make a fairly compelling case that most people become rich BECAUSE they lack a social conscience.
Quote:

or should all acts of philanthropy be questioned for ulterior motives?
Should all acts of philanthropy signify someone as a good person despite past behaviour?



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, January 3, 2007 1:42 PM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


Quote:


Originally posted by rue:
OK, here is an analysis of your straw-man arguments (ellipses to save space).



Why so interested in saving space all of a sudden?

Quote:


Originally posted by rue:
Quote:

Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
Charity is only good and noble if you bankrupt yourself in the process?


I was responding to others who felt that Billy's donations were some measure of deep internal goodness. My point was that since those donations amount to an infinitesimal fraction of a penny - relatively speaking - they seemed more like trivial gestures. At best. But you missed the point and argued that I said one had to bankrupt themselves to be charitable. Please, find me that quote.



I will reframe my original question. What do you consider an act of charity? If someone drops a few coins into a salvation army kettle do you not consider that a charitable act because it may be a fraction of the money in their bank account?

Quote:


Originally posted by rue:
tax benefit:
Billy is notorious for donating 'his' product (which was invented by others and was in the public domain) at full market value ...
Quote:

Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
Rich people should not be allowed a tax write-off like everyone else?


You sort-of missed the point, again. Did I even come close to saying it was a tax-code problem? No, I said it was the nature of the 'gift'. That's what makes this yet another straw-man argument. You are arguing against a point I didn't make.



You did not say it was a tax code problem. But you did say the following
Quote:


Billy is notorious for donating 'his' product (which was invented by others and was in the public domain) at full market value. Not only does he get a tax write-off, but he inculcates his software into education systems around the globe.



It read to me like you think Bill should not be allowed to play by the same rules as everyone else.


Quote:


Originally posted by Rue
Quote:

Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
The jig is up Bill, stop giving away your ill-gotten money to charity.


Well here you posted yet another straw-man argument. That's three out of three if you're counting. Did I say he should stop giving his money to charity? Please, feel free to find it. What I said was giving away money doesn't make him into something he's not.



Of course you did not say he should stop giving away money, the above quote quite clearly states that I did. By the way Rue, have you ever met Bill Gates? Or are you forming your opinions about him based on incomplete information gleaned from the internet? that would be akin to me forming an opinion of you based on your postings in this forum. And we can both agree on the inherent unfairness of that.

Posting to stir stuff up.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, January 3, 2007 3:00 PM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


Quote:


Originally posted by citizen:
Quote:

Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
Perhaps Bill should be more like Branson and spend all of his money on breaking records and space travel.


I fail to see how that's equivalent? No one is saying Branson's space and record breaking endeavours make him a good person.



My point was Bill Gates could be trying to circumnavigate the globe in a ballon instead of running his foundation. There is no law stating people must give to charity. Bill Gates has every right to horde every single dollar he has and give nothing to charity. He chooses to give and should not be derided for it.

Quote:


Quote:

Do you think charitable donations are only valid if they meet a certain percentage of a person's net worth?

No, I'm pretty sure the money is still there. But there's such a thing as perspective, for instance, whose more charitable, the man who has two cans of baked beans and gives on away, or a man who has a million and gives away ten?



Who is more charitable, the man who has a million cans of beans and gives away ten, or the man who has a million cans of beans and gives away none?

Quote:


Quote:

Do you think the numerous organizations that receive support from the foundation care?

No, why does this matter? You say he's a good man because he gives money to charity, I say the act of giving money away doesn't automatically make someone good.



Say Bill donates $100,000 to a soup kitchen. Whatever small percentage of his net worth that is, it still buys a heck of a lot of soup.
I have not stated whether I think Bill is a good man or not, I don't know the guy. But he is a better man than someone who gives 0% of their money to charity IMHO.


Quote:


Originally posted by citizen:
Does being rich and therefore having more money to give automatically make someone a better person?



I would have to say no. But larger donations have a more immediate impact which could be seen as a good thing.

Quote:


Quote:

or should all acts of philanthropy be questioned for ulterior motives?

Should all acts of philanthropy signify someone as a good person despite past behaviour?



I would like to think that we still live in a world where past indiscretions can be atoned for through philanthropic endeavours. And whether Bill has a social consciece or not, many people have benefited from his foundation and will continue to do so. I think that is the main point, not if Bill is a publicity whore or whether his Mother got him his big break or not.

And in the interests of keeping this thread on topic, I do not think Bill Gates could be president until he cuts his teeth in politics first. Perhaps Govenor of Washington for starters.



Posting to stir stuff up.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, January 3, 2007 3:14 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


BDNothing

"Why so interested in saving space all of a sudden?"

I ALWAYS use ellipses unless the quotes are very short. Could you possibly BE a bigger twerp.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, January 3, 2007 3:24 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


BDNothing

"If someone drops a few coins into a salvation army kettle do you not consider that a charitable act because it may be a fraction of the money in their bank account?" If someone drops a few coins into a salvation army kettle should they be labeled generous if it's a miniscule fraction of the money in their bank account?

"It read to me like you think Bill should not be allowed to play by the same rules as everyone else." It reads to me like you think business decisions should be confused with moral ones.

"Or are you forming your opinions about him based on incomplete information gleaned from the internet?" Let's see. I've read biographies of Billy boy and histories of u-soft. I read every single page of every single document posted by the DOJ in his trial. And I read up on the way he settled it, his ongoing attempts to weasel out of his European troubles without actually changing his illegal practices, and his same old shit software developments.

I'd say my opinion of Billy boy is well founded.

And yours?

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, January 3, 2007 4:10 PM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


Quote:


Originally posted by rue:
"If someone drops a few coins into a salvation army kettle do you not consider that a charitable act because it may be a fraction of the money in their bank account?" If someone drops a few coins into a salvation army kettle should they be labeled generous if it's a miniscule fraction of the money in their bank account?



Generous, perhaps not. Charitable, yes. And we were talking about charitable acts, not generosity.

Quote:


"It read to me like you think Bill should not be allowed to play by the same rules as everyone else." It reads to me like you think business decisions should be confused with moral ones.



You're kidding right? You are the one who seemingly thinks that Bill's charitability is in question because of his past business practices.

Quote:


"Or are you forming your opinions about him based on incomplete information gleaned from the internet?" Let's see. I've read biographies of Billy boy and histories of u-soft. I read every single page of every single document posted by the DOJ in his trial. And I read up on the way he settled it, his ongoing attempts to weasel out of his European troubles without actually changing his illegal practices, and his same old shit software developments.

I'd say my opinion of Billy boy is well founded.

And yours?



How can you take the measure of a person from biographies and court transcripts? I would like to think there is more to you than the substance of your posts but that's just me.
If I were to read everything I could find on the internet regarding the human body, would you come to me for a check-up?

Posting to stir stuff up.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, January 3, 2007 4:46 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Tell me, if exhaustive factual histories are not enough to figure out a person's basic MO, what is?

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, January 3, 2007 7:16 PM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


I don't know, maybe a mile in their shoes. Which I am sure are some kind of comfy.

Posting to stir stuff up.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, January 4, 2007 7:02 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
My point was Bill Gates could be trying to circumnavigate the globe in a ballon instead of running his foundation. There is no law stating people must give to charity. Bill Gates has every right to horde every single dollar he has and give nothing to charity. He chooses to give and should not be derided for it.

He shouldn't necessarily be elevated to saint hood either.
Quote:

Who is more charitable, the man who has a million cans of beans and gives away ten, or the man who has a million cans of beans and gives away none?
If one is giving away ten to get fifty cans worth of advertising, neither.
Quote:

Say Bill donates $100,000 to a soup kitchen. Whatever small percentage of his net worth that is, it still buys a heck of a lot of soup.
But then, what if he got that money by fleecing that soup kitchen and others like it?
Quote:

I have not stated whether I think Bill is a good man or not, I don't know the guy. But he is a better man than someone who gives 0% of their money to charity IMHO.
Sorry, you're right, much of the contention was that people are saying Bill is good because he gives money away, I assumed that was also your position.
Quote:

I would have to say no. But larger donations have a more immediate impact which could be seen as a good thing.
So is it better a better act for Bill to give away amounts he'll never miss than for someone else to give away a sizeable portion of their disposable income?
Quote:

I would like to think that we still live in a world where past indiscretions can be atoned for through philanthropic endeavours.
I think given the dodgy and illegal business practices he used to get his fortune, the people who have suffered from his rise, the innovation in the industry that has been stifled in the industry for his own ends I'd say it'll take a lot more than giving away a portion of his wealth he'll never miss.
Quote:

And whether Bill has a social consciece or not, many people have benefited from his foundation and will continue to do so. I think that is the main point, not if Bill is a publicity whore or whether his Mother got him his big break or not.
Actually the main point here was whether or not he was a good man for his donations .
Quote:

And in the interests of keeping this thread on topic, I do not think Bill Gates could be president until he cuts his teeth in politics first. Perhaps Govenor of Washington for starters.
Since most of American politics appears to be staunchly about personality and not about issues I think he'd do as well as any other celebrity. Paris Hilton for VP?



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, January 4, 2007 7:21 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


RUE
Tell me, if exhaustive factual histories are not enough to figure out a person's basic MO, what is?

BIGDAMNNOBODY
I don't know, maybe a mile in their shoes.

RUE
I wasn't discussing motivation, dude. I was talking behavior. You do know what MO means, don't you?


NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, January 4, 2007 4:14 PM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


Quote:


Originally posted by rue:
I wasn't discussing motivation, dude. I was talking behavior. You do know what MO means, don't you?



Modus Operandi - A method of procedure.

Posting to stir stuff up.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, January 5, 2007 3:36 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Back to Billy,

People live on different economic levels. I see them as being:

fatal want - people who are dying from lack of something basic, like shelter, water, food, medical care, and safety from others
insecurity - people who usually have enough for the basic needs but can't count on it, and they have or may find themselves under fatal want
security - people who have their basic needs guaranteed at a minimal level
quality - people who have their basic needs met with better than minimum quality
excess - people who live above the quality level - an open ended category at the top

(Since most Americans are only two paychecks away from living on the street, and even relatively secure people can be ruined by a major illness, most Americans are living at insecurity.)

How much would it take to live at quality? 100 million? Or to be generous, 250 million? So if I have 50 thousand million and give away 1 million, have I changed the quality of my life significantly? No, I'm still living at the level of excess. I'm still living in the same mode. I'd have to give away 49.75 thousand million to drop my lifestyle 'down' a level to mere quality. (A life where I'm still guaranteed the best of all the basics - for the rest of my life.) That might be considered a conversion of self - to live by a different paradigm.

By his actions, is it possible to determine if Billy has had a true change of heart - is he living by a different paradigm? Not geared to excess (achieving and maintaining it) but perhaps by consideration for others or the planet.

I believe I can show the answer is no. I was wondering what you all think.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

YOUR OPTIONS

NEW POSTS TODAY

USERPOST DATE

OTHER TOPICS

DISCUSSIONS
In the garden, and RAIN!!! (2)
Thu, March 28, 2024 14:12 - 3411 posts
Well... He was no longer useful to the DNC or the Ukraine Money Laundering Scheme... So justice was served
Thu, March 28, 2024 12:44 - 1 posts
Elections; 2024
Thu, March 28, 2024 11:18 - 2071 posts
BUILD BACK BETTER!
Thu, March 28, 2024 11:16 - 6 posts
Salon: NBC's Ronna blunder: A failed attempt to appeal to MAGA voters — except they hate her too
Thu, March 28, 2024 07:04 - 1 posts
Russia Invades Ukraine. Again
Thu, March 28, 2024 05:27 - 6154 posts
Russian losses in Ukraine
Wed, March 27, 2024 23:21 - 987 posts
human actions, global climate change, global human solutions
Wed, March 27, 2024 15:03 - 824 posts
NBC News: Behind the scenes, Biden has grown angry and anxious about re-election effort
Wed, March 27, 2024 14:58 - 2 posts
RFK Jr. Destroys His Candidacy With VP Pick?
Wed, March 27, 2024 11:59 - 16 posts
Russia says 60 dead, 145 injured in concert hall raid; Islamic State group claims responsibility
Wed, March 27, 2024 10:57 - 49 posts
Ha. Haha! HAHA! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHA!!!!!!
Tue, March 26, 2024 21:26 - 1 posts

FFF.NET SOCIAL