REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Jesus Appalled By Americans?

POSTED BY: MAVOURNEEN
UPDATED: Monday, April 9, 2007 13:32
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 6778
PAGE 1 of 3

Friday, March 9, 2007 5:08 AM

MAVOURNEEN


Edwards: Jesus Would Be Appalled By Americans
Candidate Advocates Prayer Time At School

http://www.nbc4.com/politics/11187494/detail.html

POSTED: 9:10 pm EST March 6, 2007

CHAPEL HILL, N.C. -- Democratic presidential hopeful John Edwards says Jesus would be appalled at how the United States has ignored the plight of the suffering, and that he believes children should have private time to pray at school.

Edwards, in an interview with the Web site Beliefnet.com, said Jesus would be most upset with the selfishness of Americans and the country's willingness to go to war "when it's not necessary."

"I think that Jesus would be disappointed in our ignoring the plight of those around us who are suffering and our focus on our own selfish short-term needs," Edwards told the site. "I think he would be appalled, actually."

------------------------------------------------


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, March 9, 2007 7:22 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


I saw something funny on my way to work today. A nice, new, black, shiny expensive Mercedes roadster type model with a fish symbol inside the Mercedes logo.


What would Jesus drive?

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, March 9, 2007 8:03 AM

DAYVE



...that is funny... my jesus fish has little feet on it....

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, March 9, 2007 8:04 AM

JKIDDO


Of course. Sometime after money-changers were driven from the temple the message took a hard right turn to "greed is good".

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, March 9, 2007 8:10 AM

FUTUREMRSFILLION


Although I disagree with the prayer in school statement, he is probably right.

When I see that Obi Wan kenobi's crappy ass costume robe went for $104,000.00 at auction my first response is - that would have fed a lot of hungry children, or made medicine available to african children fighting aids.

I am appalled at the state of the world as a whole, and I am not even a perfect being.

Americans have enough disposible income to erradicate poverty in the US. But it is more important to drive Mercedes that you can put your christian symbols on!

*FMF will now get off her soapbox*


----
Bestower of Titles, Designer of Tshirts, Maker of Mottos, Keeper of the Pyre, Owner of a too big Turnippy smelling coat with MR scratched in the neck (thanks FollowMal!)

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, March 9, 2007 4:12 PM

MISSTRESSAHARA


Quote:

Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:
Although I disagree with the prayer in school statement, he is probably right.

When I see that Obi Wan kenobi's crappy ass costume robe went for $104,000.00 at auction my first response is - that would have fed a lot of hungry children, or made medicine available to african children fighting aids.

I am appalled at the state of the world as a whole, and I am not even a perfect being.

Americans have enough disposible income to erradicate poverty in the US. But it is more important to drive Mercedes that you can put your christian symbols on!

*FMF will now get off her soapbox*


----
Bestower of Titles, Designer of Tshirts, Maker of Mottos, Keeper of the Pyre, Owner of a too big Turnippy smelling coat with MR scratched in the neck (thanks FollowMal!)

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original






___________________________________________________________________

TESTIFY!

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
"We can be Heroes.... if just for one day."[/]

~Peter* Peter* power Re-peater~

What do you mean I have to wait
6 fricken weeks for Heroes?

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, March 9, 2007 7:38 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


What the hell?

A Demoncrat preaching prayer in school?

What gives? You sneaky Liberals are up to something again.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, March 11, 2007 10:42 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Yep.

"Vote for me, John Edwards - It's what Jesus would do. He told me so."



"Keep the Shiny side up"

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, March 11, 2007 12:17 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Where's the ' Edwards thinks he speaks to Jesus ' posts? If Bush does it, all hell breaks loose. But when a Dem does it.... meh.


You're welcome on my boat. Your god ain't. - Me

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, March 11, 2007 2:46 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


He didn't say he 'speaks to Jesus'. That's why there's no 'speaks to Jesus' thread.

As to private time to pray, I'd like to think it means bowing towards Mecca and praying, or lighting incense and praying to your ancestors, meditating, or whatever your religion prescribes. It doesn't means Christian prayer.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, March 11, 2007 3:22 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


private time for prayer? They don't have recess? or lunch? or, Gawd help us, study hall?

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, March 11, 2007 4:00 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
He didn't say he 'speaks to Jesus'. That's why there's no 'speaks to Jesus' thread.

As to private time to pray, I'd like to think it means bowing towards Mecca and praying, or lighting incense and praying to your ancestors, meditating, or whatever your religion prescribes. It doesn't means Christian prayer.



Ok, answer me this, if you will. Does Edwards think he speaks TO Jesus or FOR Jesus. And which is worse ?

Seems to me, it's the latter w/ Edwards, and I think that's much worse.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, March 11, 2007 5:49 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


So you concede there should be no "Edwards speaks to Jesus" thread? Good. At least we're getting somewhere.

BTW you may have noticed he doesn't claim to be speaking 'for' Jesus either. What he did was offer his opinion on what he thinks Jesus meant. Hence his words "I think ..."

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, March 11, 2007 11:42 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
So you concede there should be no "Edwards speaks to Jesus" thread? Good. At least we're getting somewhere.

BTW you may have noticed he doesn't claim to be speaking 'for' Jesus either. What he did was offer his opinion on what he thinks Jesus meant. Hence his words "I think ..."



Well, I think Selma Hayek wants to be my love slave.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, March 12, 2007 2:03 AM

SHINYED


Look up the words pompous & hypocrite in the dictionary and you'll see pretty-boy Edward's coiffed hairdo et al.

What a tool! He has the unmitigated nerve to admonish Americans????....let's do the math here...:

The guy made mega-millions blackmailing, shaking down, and suing every company & person that he encountered who had an insurance policy ( he's one of the main reasons that healthcare system in America is broken )...so much that he got himself that 97-room mansion compound that he needed so desperately ( wonder how much of HIS wealth is given to charity )...I guess that's where he came up with his first catchy, if not retarded slogan...the 2 Americas..ya know that one....there's one America for Edwards...mansions, estates, limos, free Brylcreme, etc etc...and then the "other" America for all the rest of us dumb, working slobs...and by the way John-boy....America is THE MOST GENEROUS nation on the planet....Americans donate more money to charity than ALL THE OTHER NATIONS on Earth combined!

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, March 12, 2007 3:27 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Quote:

Vote for me, John Edwards - It's what Jesus would do. He told me so.-Geezer

Quote:

Does Edwards think he speaks TO Jesus or FOR Jesus. And which is worse ? Seems to me, it's the latter w/ Edwards, and I think that's much worse.-Auraptor

Geezer, Auraptor, since you seem so worried about Edwards speaking "for" Jesus, how do you feel about preachers? Just curious. More to the point, how do you feel about a candidate saying ...

"I feel like God wants me to run for President. I can't explain it, but I sense my country is going to need me. Something is going to happen... I know it won't be easy on me or my family, but God wants me to do it"
Quote:

The guy made mega-millions blackmailing, shaking down, and suing every company & person that he encountered who had an insurance policy ( he's one of the main reasons that healthcare system in America is broken )...so much that he got himself that 97-room mansion compound that he needed so desperately ( wonder how much of HIS wealth is given to charity )...I guess that's where he came up with his first catchy, if not retarded slogan...the 2 Americas..ya know that one....there's one America for Edwards...mansions, estates, limos, free Brylcreme, etc etc.- ShinyEd
You sound jealous. Are you jealous?
Quote:

America is THE MOST GENEROUS nation on the planet....Americans donate more money to charity than ALL THE OTHER NATIONS on Earth combined!- ShinyEd
Nope, sorry.



--------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, March 12, 2007 3:37 AM

SHINYED


SignyM....Thanks a lot! I'm sounding like PN? That's pretty scary! I don't reecall using phrases that PN loves like Nazis, or Zionist conspiracy, or so many of his imaginative reasons to hate. I just simply wanted to state that Edwards was, in my opinion, always an opportunist and abuser of America, and now he is also speaking for Jesus about our materialistic indulgences....sounds pretty demented, without even using any of PN's hyperbole.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, March 12, 2007 4:05 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


ShniyEd- I edited that out prolly just as you posted because I thought it was unecessarily harsh. But yes, you and Auraptor are beginning to sound like PN. I don't think your position is fully thought out, for example Edwards being the reason why the health-care system is in crisis. Lets' look at Edward's trial history and how it affects the medical system
Quote:

More than half his cases were medical malpractice suits. Many involved infants born with brain damage or other serious conditions that entail a lifetime of expensive medical care.
You know, as a parent of a child brain-damaged during delivery who remained undx for years we face an entire life trying to provide for a child who will never be able to provide for herself. We filed a complaint against the HMO that botched the delivery and subsequent treatment but the system is stacked against us, from limiting the amount of award to the arbitration setup. (Sounds fair until you realize that victims come and go but the HMO is ALWAYS paying the judges) Did you know that illness is the MAJOR cause of bankruptcy? How does "the little guy" keep hospitals and insurance companies on the straight and narrow? Do you think they effectively police THEMSELVES? Do you think that "market forces" come into play when people are facing life-and-death decisions? To continue...
Quote:

Edwards won a $7 million verdict for the parents of a 16-year-old who'd killed himself the day after being dismissed from a psychiatric hospital, an incredibly difficult case to win, Dayton says, because in North Carolina the plaintiff must prove that the entire burden of negligence lies with the defendant. In 1997, Edwards successfully sued a doctor for $23 million on behalf of the parents of a baby severely brain damaged by oxygen deprivation during labor.

The defining case in Edwards' legal career wrapped up that same year. In 1993, a five-year-old girl named Valerie Lakey had been playing in a Wake County, N.C., wading pool when she became caught in an uncovered drain so forcefully that the suction pulled out most of her intestines. She survived but for the rest of her life will need to be hooked up to feeding tubes for 12 hours each night. Edwards filed suit on the Lakeys' behalf against Sta-Rite Industries, the Wisconsin corporation that manufactured the drain....Before trial, he discovered that 12 other children had suffered similar injuries from Sta-Rite drains.

Which of these cases should not have been brought to court? And if you don't like the civil trial system, what would you replace it with?

---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, March 12, 2007 4:46 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Geezer, Auraptor, since you seem so worried about Edwards speaking "for" Jesus, how do you feel about preachers? Just curious. More to the point, how do you feel about a candidate saying ...

"I feel like God wants me to run for President. I can't explain it, but I sense my country is going to need me. Something is going to happen... I know it won't be easy on me or my family, but God wants me to do it"



Politicians invoking God, whether it be Edwards or (I assume) Bush, is an ancient and dishonorable tradition. I've often wondered how God manages to be on both sides of so many elections, wars, etc. without going schitzo. It's just noise to me, and I chuckle at it and go on.



"Keep the Shiny side up"

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, March 12, 2007 5:15 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Geezer- what Edwards did, I think, was to express his moral stance (or express what he would like others to think are his moral underpinnings.) That's different than Bush believing that God is paving his path to power. Edwards' statement gave me more of an idea of his moral compass, assuming that he's being honest. Bush's statement was that of a man bent on accruing power, but with out any insight as to what he would do with that power.

But to get back to the original topic of the thread- Are you religious? Are you Christian? How do YOU think Americans stack up to the message of Jesus?

---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, March 12, 2007 5:57 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


TarnishED

You really belive that swill about malpractice suits ?

You need to listen to the message from David Walker, head of the GAO.

"He does believe the current health care system is way too expensive, and overrated.

"On cost we're number one in the world. We spend 50 percent more of our economy on health care than any nation on earth," he says.

"We have the largest uninsured population of any major industrialized nation. We have above average infant mortality, below average life expectancy, and much higher than average medical error rates for an industrialized nation," Walker points out."

He's comparing the US system unfavorably to socialized medicine which exists in the rest of the developed world. What he's suggesting is broken is for-profit medicine.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, March 12, 2007 6:20 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Quote:

97-room mansion compound
This is wrong. It's 10 rooms and 10,000 sq ft on 100 acres. Big by any standard but not 97 rooms and certainly not the 60,000 sq ft Bill Gates compound. Edwards is worth about $130 million. Gates is worth about $50 billion. Bush has a 1,600 acre ranch. Cheney is worth about $50 million. AFA charitable (money) contributions, the Edwards have averaged about 9% over the past 10 years the Bushs about 11%. John Edwards also does pro bono work.

Is he a sterling example of charity? No- he's about average for that level of wealth, I'd say.





---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, March 12, 2007 6:39 AM

SHINYED


Pretty-boy chased down so many ambulances that at one point in the 1990's Nike actually considered dropping sponsors Carl Lewis & Michael Jordan, and having Edwards as their spokesmodel for their running shoes.

Pretty-boy then used his insurance settlement millions and vile bloodsucking tort-lawyer buddy connections to get his name on the ballot for the Senate, where he did so many great things during his "term" for America...well I can't think of any just now.....But credentials & qualifications for the leader of our country???..President of The United States??....oh puullleeeze!...gimme Johnny Cochran first..oh wait, he died, then how 'bout Barry Sheck or Ally McBeal?...both eminently more competent than John(how's my hair?)Edwards.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, March 12, 2007 6:46 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Quote:

Pretty-boy chased down so many ambulances that at one point in the 1990's Nike actually considered dropping sponsors Carl Lewis & Michael Jordan, and having Edwards as their spokesmodel for their running shoes. Pretty-boy then used his insurance settlement millions and vile bloodsucking tort-lawyer
This is where you start flirting with PN boundaries.
Quote:

both eminently more competent than John(how's my hair?)Edwards.
If John Edwards is so incompetent how did he make so much money?

BTW- If you don't stop calling him "pretty-boy" and refering to his hair I'm going to start thinking you're jealous of his looks. Or maybe you have nothing more substantive than name-calling in your repertoire?

---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, March 12, 2007 9:52 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Geezer- what Edwards did, I think, was to express his moral stance (or express what he would like others to think are his moral underpinnings.) That's different than Bush believing that God is paving his path to power. Edwards' statement gave me more of an idea of his moral compass, assuming that he's being honest. Bush's statement was that of a man bent on accruing power, but with out any insight as to what he would do with that power.



Edwards could have expressed his moral stance perfectly well without channeling Jesus, just as Bush could have said he thought he was the best man for the job without bringing in his visions of a Holy highway to the White House. They're both playing to the Christian voters of one stripe or another.

God is the perfect endorsement. He doesn't ask for political favors, fully supports your platform, and never goes on the Sunday talk shows to switch allegence to another candidate.

Quote:

But to get back to the original topic of the thread- Are you religious? Are you Christian? How do YOU think Americans stack up to the message of Jesus?


I'm an agnostic bordering on athiesm. I got no problem with people's religion as long as they don't try to force it on me.

Poor Jesus. His "message" has been so massaged, re-interpreted, revised, edited, co-opted and generally pureed that I'm not sure he'd want to claim it any more. People on every side of any issue are absolutely sure that they have the official O.K. from Christ for whatever they want.

What's your version of "the message of Jesus" that you want me to opine on?


"Keep the Shiny side up"

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, March 12, 2007 10:15 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Dbl post. Oh well then.

To the tune of "I Know What Boys Like" by the Waitresses.

I know what God likes
I know what Christ wants
I know what God likes
I've got what Christ wants

I know what God likes
I know what Christ wants
I see them looking

They want me running
and in the White house
Call up and ask them
And they will tell you

I know what God likes
I know what Christ wants
I know what God likes
God likes, God likes Me.


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, March 12, 2007 10:46 AM

CITIZEN


Rue: Please don't feed the Trolls, it only encourages them



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, March 12, 2007 11:30 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Quote:

Edwards could have expressed his moral stance perfectly well without channeling Jesus, just as Bush could have said he thought he was the best man for the job without bringing in his visions of a Holy highway to the White House. They're both playing to the Christian voters of one stripe or another.
Agreed.
Quote:

God is the perfect endorsement. He doesn't ask for political favors, fully supports your platform, and never goes on the Sunday talk shows to switch allegence to another candidate.
HAHAHAHAHA!!!
Quote:

I'm an agnostic bordering on athiesm. I got no problem with people's religion as long as they don't try to force it on me.
Amazingly, we're on the same side of this fence.
Quote:

Poor Jesus. His "message" has been so massaged, re-interpreted, revised, edited, co-opted and generally pureed that I'm not sure he'd want to claim it any more. People on every side of any issue are absolutely sure that they have the official O.K. from Christ for whatever they want. What's your version of "the message of Jesus" that you want me to opine on?
I have no idea of Jesus' original message. But I grew up with the John XXIII version, which emphasized love and forgiveness. I like that message, it suits my sense of "fair". I noticed that there are the Old Testament Xtians and New Testament Xtians- not at all the same!


---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, March 12, 2007 3:59 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Geezer, Auraptor, since you seem so worried about Edwards speaking "for" Jesus, how do you feel about preachers? Just curious. More to the point, how do you feel about a candidate saying ..."I feel like God wants me to run for President. I can't explain it, but I sense my country is going to need me. Something is going to happen... I know it won't be easy on me or my family, but God wants me to do it"



Not 'worried' about Silky Pony,just disgusted at his obvious pandering. Am a bit concerned about the hayseeds who can't see through Edward's country bumpkin act.

Why do you ask about preachers? Don't have much use for them, myself.



People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, March 12, 2007 4:04 PM

WRATCHIT


Jesus! I like him very much.

but he is no help with curve ball.................

__________________________________________________
Were there monkeys? Some terrifying space monkeys maybe got loose?
www.bikerplanet.net

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, March 13, 2007 2:10 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


So Auraptor, How do you feel about a politician saying that God is behind his run for the Presidency?

---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, March 13, 2007 2:54 AM

ALLIETHORN7


Such Hubris, ya?
Facts are as they stand; none of us can ever remember being dead, so I'll hazard a guess that we DON'T know what Jesus would say.
YES, America is going down the proverbial tubes. Has been for a while now, come to think.
YES, We spend more money proclaiming our faith than actualy practicing it, and,
YES, we could and SHOULD, very much, help others more. But, Facts as is, we DON'T.
Deal.
We could be better. We should be better. But, we are American's. We choose what's convenient over what is right more than we should. Problem is, we're a reactive society; we need someone to shove something in our faces, take us by the neck, shake us, and scream "Here it is!!!!" in our respective ears until we understand.
Don't tell people what to do. Show them what is wrong. Then, let 'em decide. Odds are, a good half of them will do something out of social need, a quarter because they want to, and a quarter will do nothing. Show people what's wrong, then hope for the best. In the end, that's all you can do.
As to prayers... well, you got recess, ya? That'll do. As it is, I only have two religious friends, Jon, who is Jewish, and Richardo, who is Colombian. Them's it; rest don't go to Church or whatnot (Neither do I).

-Danny

Our Idols lay in Ruins,
We'd have saved them if we Could,
But we still chose to Worship,
The Places where our Idols STOOD!!!

THRICE RULES!!!!!!!!!

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, March 13, 2007 3:53 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


I draw different conclusions about the dichotomy between the message of love, forgiveness, and redemption and the message of social Darwninism:

No matter how revolutionary the original message, it will eventually be twisted to suit the needs of the powerful.

The underlying message of today's elite: Because humans are "naturally" greedy and violent there is no point in setting an unnatural moral code. Rather, it is more effective to allow our "real" motives to come into play, and this will "eventually" create a stronger population. Greed is good Or maybe "Greed is god" There are no victims, only losers.

Americans are caught between these two fundamentally incompatible messages. Americans (who are the most religious people in the developed world) are bombarded day after day with messages of consumerism/ greed, violence, and individualism. If following the religious message of love gets you fucked over time after time, eventually the message of love loses.


---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, March 20, 2007 6:15 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


In a serendipitous event of cosmic proportions, while checking some of the facts in Ann Coulter's book "Godless" I found that Mr. Edwards started his channelling long before he contacted Christ this year.

Quote:

In 1985, a 31-year-old North Carolina lawyer named John Edwards stood before a jury and channeled the words of an unborn baby girl.

Referring to an hour-by-hour record of a fetal heartbeat monitor, Mr. Edwards told the jury: ''She said at 3, 'I'm fine.' She said at 4, 'I'm having a little trouble, but I'm doing O.K.' Five, she said, 'I'm having problems.' At 5:30, she said, 'I need out.' ''

But the obstetrician, he argued in an artful blend of science and passion, failed to heed the call. By waiting 90 more minutes to perform a breech delivery, rather than immediately performing a Caesarean section, Mr. Edwards said, the doctor permanently damaged the girl's brain.

''She speaks to you through me,'' the lawyer went on in his closing argument. ''And I have to tell you right now -- I didn't plan to talk about this -- right now I feel her. I feel her presence. She's inside me, and she's talking to you.''



http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=health&res=9501E3DD1F38
F932A05752C0A9629C8B63


BTW, Ms. Coulter's cite was accurate.



"Keep the Shiny side up"

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, March 20, 2007 9:28 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Well, you know that trial law is part theater, which is what I see in Edwards' performance. And the word "channeling" is hyperbole used to "punch up" the story intro. I seriously doubt that Edwards believes in voices from beyond and I don't think you believe that either. And since I'm SURE you're not seriously saying that Edwards is an occult practioner, your point would be.....?

Quite frankly, I wish Edwards had been on my side when we brought a complaint against Kaiser. At the time it was all the rage to have "natural" births, and this particular birth was attended by a midwife not a doctor. But if they had done a Caesarian instead of letting our daughter slog thru 20 hours of labor she would not have suffered a gade IV intraventricular hemorrhage (brain bleed) at birth, and would now not be disabled. But they did and she did and so here she is, dealing with... and paying for... a preventable tragedy that we had no hand in creating.
Quote:

Thrombocytopenic infants who were delivered vaginally had the highest incidence of intraventricular hemorrhage (63.4% vs 37.5% for cesarean section, P = .005). Vaginal delivery and platelets < 50x109/L on day 1 were independent risk factors for intraventricular hemorrhage ... Extra-axial hemorrhages, intraventricular hemorrhage, acute parenchymal hemorrhage and neuronal migrational disorder occurred with varying frequency

http://www.ajnr.org/cgi/content/full/23/9/1457
Quote:

The affected infant may have intracranial hemorrhage, and the disorder is associated with a relatively high mortality rate.
www.emedicine.com/med/topic987.htm

I work closely with people who within the past couple of months have had to fight HMOs to get medical care. One was dx as being "depressed" when she had a pituitary tumor. One was dx as having "arthritis" and told to take ibuprofin when he had a spinal tumor that reached from his neck to the middle of his back. Looking at the Kaiser kidney transplant fiasco and other large-scale medical fiascos, IMHO if it takes a multimillion-dollar lawsuit to get them to wake up and smell the money, great. Otherwise they will continue to provide the cheapest, shoddiest care they can get away with.

---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, March 21, 2007 11:08 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
So Auraptor, How do you feel about a politician saying that God is behind his run for the Presidency?

---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.



That sort of talk doesn't wash with me to much. Why do you ask ?

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, March 21, 2007 11:43 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Well, you know that trial law is part theater, which is what I see in Edwards' performance. And the word "channeling" is hyperbole used to "punch up" the story intro. I seriously doubt that Edwards believes in voices from beyond and I don't think you believe that either. And since I'm SURE you're not seriously saying that Edwards is an occult practioner, your point would be.....?



Politics, especially the fund raising part, is at least as much theater as trial law. Putting words in either Jesus' mouth or a dead child's mouth to convince someone you're in the right seems manipulative and somewhat dishonest to me, and Mr. Edwards seems to have used it more than once. As noted above, you can't ask Jesus, or the child, for verification. And yes, "manipulative and somewhat dishonest" includes Mr. Bush's "God wants me to run" line as well.

As for Edwards - protector of the weak vs. ambulance chaser, I got no dog in that fight.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, March 22, 2007 1:05 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Hi SignyM...

Firstly, allow me to say that I'm sorry about what happened with your daughter. My brother had a brain hemmorage when he was 6 due to his premature birth, which was assumed to be due to my mother's bulimea. Nasty situation that is. He suffered multiple strokes and spend over 3 months in a coma and another year in the hospital afterwards. They said he'd never walk or talk again but he did within a year, albeit with a lot of work and self-sacrafice that my Father put into his recovery. He's proving everybody wrong everyday.


Now... something you said earlier rubbed me wrong. I notice you like to throw links out there that prove your stance on something, which I think everyone would agree is a great way to validate your points. The comment you made, which I believe was made only based on your feelings rather than truth... the one I feel needs the most justification and that warrants the most backup you can muster has nothing at all to validate it. I sincerely suspect that it is because no such evidence will be found anywhere.

When ShinyEd said "America is THE MOST GENEROUS nation on the planet....Americans donate more money to charity than ALL THE OTHER NATIONS on Earth combined!" he was absolutely right, regardless of your opinion of the matter here. I would like to see any proof otherwise.

Let's forget completley about all of the charitable contributions that America gives the world and just talk about "Tax Freedom Day" here in America. It won't be until nearly the beginning of May that the average American will have made enough money to pay off their tax burden. What does our government waste all of this money on (besides the war which I am 100% against with every fiber of my being)? That's right..... all of the social programs that we never had a chance to vote on and which oftentimes fail due to lack of planning and foresight. All of the wealth re-distribution aimed at eliminating the middle class. We do have one of the most Communistic non-Comunist countries on the globe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_Freedom_Day

I'll stop now before you label me Pirate News too.... but I have a sneaking suspicion that I'm already too late for that.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, March 22, 2007 1:41 AM

KHYRON


6string, I don't want to butt into your discussion with SignyM, but I'm not quite clear on what you're saying so I thought I'd ask. Are you saying government-implemented social programs are a form of charity?



The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, March 22, 2007 7:49 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


6Six- hold please ...


Huh. You think that we're generous because we pay our taxes? Because our government redistributes wealth? If that's your measure of generosity then we've got a long way to go, baby, before we reach Euro proportions. And by any measure of health, education, and happiness, whatever "charitable" amount of giving (or tax-paying) that we do for our own is either remarkly stingy or unconceivably ineffective because we're pretty far down at the bottom of the list in those measure too. If that's not your point, better clarify.

What about humanitarian aid? Well sicne the USA has a large land mass, population, and economy it stands to reason that in raw dollars the USA would be a big donor. It would hardly be fair to place Sweden (for example) on the same absolute scale as the USA. But in more meaningful terms, here it is the rankning for humatitarian aid per capita (per person)

1. Norway 21.04
2. Sweden 11.81
3. Denmark 5.95
4. Switzerland 5.85
5. Netherlands 5.15
6. Belgium 2.94
7. United Kingdom 2.58
8. Finland 2.38
9. United States 2.34
10. France 2.17
11. Canada 2.10
12. Australia 1.93
13. Ireland 1.83
14. Austria 1.23
15. New Zealand 1.18
16. Spain 0.61
17. Germany 0.61
18. Italy 0.42
19. Greece 0.27
20. Japan 0.06
21. Portugal 0.03
www.danieldrezner.com/archives/001805.html


---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, March 22, 2007 2:51 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Yes Khyron. That is exactly what I'm saying. I don't care if I'm labled racist or not, because I know I'm not. We've ruined the public school system with the VERY expensive "No Child Left Behind" act which NOBODY I know approved of in the first place. Yup.... that's our money going to fund that collosal waste of resources and future minds. All they've managed to do since it's started is lower the bar for everyone. Oh... let's not forget free healthcare for anybody fast enough to jump the border with their kids. I don't know of anybody here that approves of that either, but we're building water fountains in Mexico so the border jumpers have something to drink while they sneak over here. I could go on about this all night, but my posts are already 5 times longer than most people in here as it is. I will leave that alone for now and label it forced charity.

Signym -

Well, I see a bunch of numbers, but they don't mean anything to me. No disrespect to Mr. Drezner, but I have no clue who he is and I don't recognize his statistics here, nor do I believe them.

Now... let's just say that I bought these statistics at face value for shits and giggles. When you count all 300,000,000+ people in America also take into account all of our own poor and destitute, and we have A LOT of them, who drastically skew any numbers. I don't even see any aid going to them or the effects their negative incomes have on a list like this mentioned in your article. Ywould also need to have lists of other factors such as this to get a true picture of the way things really are, or else you're not doing anything different than somebody quoting passages from the Bible out of context to prove a point.

Upon further reading of your article, this forign relief aid isn't mentioned to be either private donations or Government aid. I'm assuming it's both, so this just strengthens my stance about "forced" charity as well.

And to take a quote right from it:

Quote:

U.N. Undersecretary-General for Humanitarian Affairs Jan Egeland suggested that the United States and other Western nations were being "stingy" with relief funds, saying there would be more available if taxes were raised.


Are you proposing more forced charity? Who the Fk are you Jan? Go Fk yourself. This is just more Communist bullshit to make people in America feel even worse about themselves then they already do.

I'm sorry, but I'm still not buying it.

(***EDIT: Upon further evaluation of your article, this "charity" seems ONLY to consist of Government aid, and a debate about whether or not we are paying enough taxes, and if whether or not Americans in general want to pay more taxes for Communist programs like they do in europe. It seems the Europeans don't even understand the concept of private charity anymore, and who can blame them with the amount of money is stolen from them by their government? I'm not sure what point you were trying to proove with this other article other than prooving my first point.)



I personally don't give money to charity. It's a dirty and lazy thing in my eyes. The corporations behind them take a lot of money to operate so your buying power is drastically cut after the bottom line has been met first. You want to really help people then go out and volunteer and help the underprivelaged here, in your own country. I don't see any reason why the Tsunamis were any more our busniess than this bullshit war we find ourselves in. (For the record, I don't know anybody who supports that either).

I have been known to pick up hitch-hikers and other people who aren't even hitchhiking when it's cold or rainy out and they look like they need a hand. I'm not saying you all should do it and I understand your reservations. I picked up a crackhead once who turned out to be pretty dangerous once (long, but interesting story), and I've also picked up another guy who robbed a 7-11 earlier in the evening so I had quite a bit of explaining to do to the police afterwards, so even though I've got some cool stories I'm sure there are safer ways to do good. I've also given money to people who have asked for it. I know they're probably going to spend it on drugs, and if I'm lucky maybe they'll get some food, but I know what it's like to live a hard life and I have a lot of sympathy for them. I'm in a much better financial situation right now then I was when I was living in a basement filled with cats 3 years ago. At least I can feel good having faces to go with the nice things I do at the times I can afford them.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, March 22, 2007 5:39 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


6Six- A few self-contradictions on your post. You seem so insistenet that America be recognized as THE MOST GENEROUS nation on the planet .... Americans donate more money to charity than ALL THE OTHER NATIONS on Earth combined. And yet, giving to charity is (to you) a "dirty and lazy thing". So what you've just said is that Americans are the dirtiest and laziest people in the world.

FINALLY! YOUR TRUE OPINION OF AMERICANS COMES THRU!

And if we're so generous, the MOST generous in the world in fact (!) and so intent on income redistribution, why do we have so many of our own poor and destitute... A LOT of them, who drastically skew any numbers?

You know, when I put some of your ideas next to other ideas of yours they go poof!. So OOC what ARE you trying to say?


---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, March 22, 2007 7:00 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


GEEZER
Quote:

Politics, especially the fund raising part, is at least as much theater as trial law. Putting words in either Jesus' mouth or a dead child's mouth to convince someone you're in the right seems manipulative and somewhat dishonest to me, and Mr. Edwards seems to have used it more than once.
While Edwards could have described his moral underpinnings w/o referring to Jesus, I don't get the idea that he was speaking "for" Jesus. As Rue pointed out, the qualifier "I think" makes Edwards' statement a personally referenced opinion, not a "speaking for Jesus" statement. And for all I know, Edwards' reference to Jesus may be sincere and not at all dishonest or cynical. So IMHO he doesn't lose any points for dishonesty on that account.

The "speaking for the child" thing? Hokey at best and manipulative as well.

I personally don't have much opinion of Edwards' fundamental honesty or dishonesty because I haven't looked at his record substantively, and these two instances aren't enough to condemn or redeem anyone. I like the fact that he represents ordinary people against corporations and government (altho I know that some ppl on this board regard that as anathema) which seems to give some weight ot his "two Americas" campaign, but I have no clue whether his voting record is consistent with that. I know that he has undergone some family tragedy in the past few years (death of his son and wife's cancer) which I think tends to "season" people, and that he's facing more in the near future.

I expect that his decision to continue with his campaign in the face of his wife's cancer recurrence was made either out of out of naivete or out of a desire to affect the primaries. I don't think it's possible to truly understand how gruesome it is to care for someone with metastacized cancer unless you've gone through it, and my guess is that some time in the next two to four years he will be fully involved with his wife dying.



---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, March 22, 2007 7:08 PM

DROSTIE


Random points:

- US citizens do not pay much in taxes, and they are nothing like a communism.

- Other countries who pay more in taxes tend to have a much higher standard of living.

- The U.S. does not pay much in aid in relative terms -- taking the E.U. as if it were one country, the US and the EU have roughly the same GDP. But the EU gives more than the US on just about every indicator that I know of. (It was claimed that the EU doesn't do private charity, but that's just false.)

- Communism is demonized because Russia did it immorally. If you ever bother to read Marx's Das Kapital, you'll notice that it's much more of a passive consequence of people interacting with capitalism. Marx's big mistake was that he thought a revolution was necessary; but the socialist progress in both the US and the EU has gone remarkably naturally -- and both have done incredibly well. By contrast, what Russia called communism was much more a beast of capitalism than anybody could have anticipated.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, March 22, 2007 7:11 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
6Six- A few self-contradictions on your post. You seem so insistenet that America be recognized as THE MOST GENEROUS nation on the planet .... Americans donate more money to charity than ALL THE OTHER NATIONS on Earth combined. And yet, giving to charity is (to you) a "dirty and lazy thing". So what you've just said is that Americans are the dirtiest and laziest people in the world.

FINALLY! YOUR TRUE OPINION OF AMERICANS COMES THRU!

And if we're so generous, the MOST generous in the world in fact (!) and so intent on income redistribution, why do we have so many of our own poor and destitute... A LOT of them, who drastically skew any numbers?

You know, when I put some of your ideas next to other ideas of yours they go poof!. So OOC what ARE you trying to say?



Wow..... so you're just going to throw logic and reason out the window because your source is bunk here and proves my point. If you would like to get serious and keep up this debate, you're welcome to post an intelligent argument. Otherwise... I've said my piece and even though you're trying desperately to twist my words, you know what it is.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, March 22, 2007 7:14 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by Drostie:
Random points:

- US citizens do not pay much in taxes, and they are nothing like a communism.

- Other countries who pay more in taxes tend to have a much higher standard of living.

- The U.S. does not pay much in aid in relative terms -- taking the E.U. as if it were one country, the US and the EU have roughly the same GDP. But the EU gives more than the US on just about every indicator that I know of. (It was claimed that the EU doesn't do private charity, but that's just false.)

- Communism is demonized because Russia did it immorally. If you ever bother to read Marx's Das Kapital, you'll notice that it's much more of a passive consequence of people interacting with capitalism. Marx's big mistake was that he thought a revolution was necessary; but the socialist progress in both the US and the EU has gone remarkably naturally -- and both have done incredibly well. By contrast, what Russia called communism was much more a beast of capitalism than anybody could have anticipated.





Random Opinions...... but whatever.

I won't even bother asking you to find references on any of that.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, March 22, 2007 7:37 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Nope Six, I haven't the faintest clue WHAT you're trying to say. Although I exaggerated to make a point, your posts contain fundamental self contradictions. This is what you've said about charity:

Americans are the most charitable because we donate a lot of money and pay a lot in taxes. So government-funded social programs are (forced) charities, which is the same as communism. But Europeans who pay more taxes are NOT charitable because they don't understand "private" charity, which is dirty and lazy.

So can you take this bag of snakes and lay it out straight? Or, describe for me what YOU think "charity" is.





---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, March 22, 2007 7:51 PM

DROSTIE


*shrug* All of the points I mentioned are wholly factual, and can be Googled.

I'm more intimately familiar with the details, because I'm a dual citizen of the US and NL, and consequently I've seen both first-hand. The improvements tend to be implicit -- things you take for granted. For example, in the US, there are potholes; in the NL, there aren't. In the US, you *sometimes* can catch a Greyhound to the next city; in the NL, the trains run every couple of minutes to any city you'd like.

But, of course, you may also look up actual standards-of-living indices between the EU and the US. The only one that the US consistently beats the EU on is GDP per capita -- and since most of the US wealth is concentrated in precious few hands, that means that your Bill Gateses and Waltons are pulling up the mean, leaving the average citizen in the dust.


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, March 22, 2007 8:03 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by Drostie:
*shrug* All of the points I mentioned are wholly factual, and can be Googled.

I'm more intimately familiar with the details, because I'm a dual citizen of the US and NL, and consequently I've seen both first-hand. The improvements tend to be implicit -- things you take for granted. For example, in the US, there are potholes; in the NL, there aren't. In the US, you *sometimes* can catch a Greyhound to the next city; in the NL, the trains run every couple of minutes to any city you'd like.

But, of course, you may also look up actual standards-of-living indices between the EU and the US. The only one that the US consistently beats the EU on is GDP per capita -- and since most of the US wealth is concentrated in precious few hands, that means that your Bill Gateses and Waltons are pulling up the mean, leaving the average citizen in the dust.




That's a real nice story and all but I've read plenty of people from the UK bitching about the insane amounts of money that they have that go to taxes and they have no control over. Your definition of standards of living and mine are obviously much different. Mine is higher the less the less that government takes from me and the less they have to do with my life, period. I do very well with my median salary because I show self control and responsibility. Most people in America would be much better off if they could keep their credit cards in their pockets and not spend like a bunch of idiots with a magic goodie getter. For the most part, I'm thinking my quality of life is pretty good. What the government does with our money is a waste most of the time and I'd rather be able to do with it what I will.

As for your post Signy.... I'll get to it soon. I can't give it the attention it diserves at the moment. Thanks for being serious this time and clearing that up. I don't think sarcasm translates very well and your other post came off as pretty insulting.

Oh, and I dont' feel I've contradicted myself at all. It's simply a matter of taking what I said out of context.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, March 22, 2007 8:46 PM

DROSTIE


- They'd still rather live in the UK than the US. You know that because they haven't crossed the ocean.

- I find it surprising that you hate taxation so much. Especially given the good that it can do -- for example, a government-sponsored health care system would probably save US citizens money. (The NL spends 8% of their GDP on health care; US citizens spend 15%.) The BBC is another good example of how a government can cooperate with a market to produce a better outcome for everybody.

- Expanding on that theme of finding your tax-dislike surprising, I just don't understand why you don't see it as a civic duty. Tax dollars go to roads, schools, hospitals, scientific research -- these are civic responsibilities which you have. What, would you prefer a US with no taxes, and no military, and no roads, and no science? Most Netherlanders feel like taxation is part of a damn fine contract between citizens and their government.

(It is also worth noting that NL citizens are much more active in the political realm. To continue my pothole example, if a Netherlander sees a pothole somewhere, there are numbers you can call to report it.)

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

YOUR OPTIONS

NEW POSTS TODAY

USERPOST DATE

OTHER TOPICS

DISCUSSIONS
In the garden, and RAIN!!!!
Thu, May 19, 2022 00:00 - 10527 posts
I'm surprised there's not an inflation thread yet
Wed, May 18, 2022 23:55 - 243 posts
I never thought I'd miss this evil little Goblin...
Wed, May 18, 2022 23:36 - 1 posts
Why is Russia losing so much military equipment?
Wed, May 18, 2022 23:27 - 4 posts
Trump's Budget
Wed, May 18, 2022 19:34 - 297 posts
Russia keeps threatening with nukes
Wed, May 18, 2022 15:12 - 76 posts
Russian losses in Ukraine
Wed, May 18, 2022 14:46 - 322 posts
SILENCE!!!
Wed, May 18, 2022 03:04 - 2 posts
Russia Invades Ukraine. Again
Tue, May 17, 2022 12:01 - 539 posts
Another Putin Disaster
Tue, May 17, 2022 11:14 - 1325 posts
Punishing Russia With Sanctions
Tue, May 17, 2022 10:56 - 323 posts
A thread for Democrats Only
Tue, May 17, 2022 08:54 - 6242 posts

FFF.NET SOCIAL