REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

...saw that coming....

POSTED BY: DAYVE
UPDATED: Tuesday, April 3, 2007 16:21
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 2720
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Thursday, March 29, 2007 6:23 AM

DAYVE


Tom Tomorrow pretty much nails it every time….

(lifted from Huffington Post) http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tom-tomorrow/mistakes-were-made_b_44514.
html


Mistakes Were Made



Quote:

Two takes on a similar theme this week. The cartoon above, from November '05, is one of my own personal favorites. I don't think I've come up with a better expression of the sheer infuriating helplessness many of us have experienced over the past six years. These days, I feel like we're moving closer and closer to the final panel, as Congressional Republicans insist that any timetable for withdrawal will embolden the terrorists, and Rush Limbaugh declares repeatedly that Democrats will be the sole owners of defeat. In short, they're laying the groundwork to blame the entire mess on those of us who opposed it from the start -- and at the same time, they're still insisting that there is no cliff, that the streets of Baghdad are so safe that you can go for a pleasant evening stroll without a care in the world (as John McCain told Wolf Blitzer the other day).
These people are always, always wrong. But they deny it as long as they can, and when they can no longer deny it, they change the subject.
Which brings us to this, more recent piece ...





(For more wacky Tom Tomorrow fun, visit www.thismodernworld.com.)



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Thursday, March 29, 2007 6:29 AM

DEEPGIRL187


LOL, Dayve. That pretty much sums up the way things have been going the past few years.

*************************************************

"If you want to win a war, you must serve no master but your ambition."


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Thursday, March 29, 2007 6:34 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Boy, are you gonna get yourself in trouble... Someone will be along soon to call you a terrorost lover. Satire is a lethal weapon against those folks, because it's so easy, and it works so well, as they have no sense of humor.

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Thursday, March 29, 2007 7:06 AM

DAYVE



..why do neo-cons hate people who actually think for themselves...??

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Thursday, March 29, 2007 7:20 AM

FREDGIBLET


Quote:

Originally posted by Dayve:

..why do neo-cons hate people who actually think for themselves...??



http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/

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Thursday, March 29, 2007 7:40 AM

DAYVE


Quote:

Originally posted by fredgiblet:
http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey



Thanks for that link.
I have seen excerpts of Mr. Altemeyer’s work before. Former White House counsel John Dean quotes Altemeyer in his book Conservatives Without Conscience.

From Democracy Now – part of an interview with Dean, conducted by Amy Goodman.

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/08/15/1327200

AMY GOODMAN: You also have a quote at the beginning of your book by Professor Bob Altemeyer: "If you think the United States could never elect an Adolf Hitler to power, note that David Duke would have become governor of Louisiana if it had just been up to the white voters in that state." A lot of people criticize any references to the Holocaust or Adolf Hitler, when talking about what's going on in this country.

JOHN DEAN: Well, Altemeyer is one of the finest and most leading authorities in this question of authoritarianism. He was most gracious to me to take me where I spent almost a year in this body of science as an outsider. The inexplicable thing to me, and actually to him, is that this science has never been explained outside the academic community. And it's information Americans need. It's something that should be in the public square and for discussion.

Altemeyer makes that point, because it's very real. And he actually, ironically, started writing some of his peer journal material in peer-level books during Watergate, when he was struck at how long so many Americans clung to the Nixon presidency, never willing to say that this man had done anything wrong, down to -- it gets to about 23% to this day thinks he did no wrong. He said, “John, that's a very typical pattern in the demographics in the United States of the hardcore authoritarian followers, that their leaders can do -- or their authority figures can do no wrong. They won't question them. They will hang with them forever. They're like lemmings.”


Eta: this quote from Chuck Hagel

“This idea that somehow you don’t support the troops if you don’t continue in a lemming-like way to accept whatever this administration’s policy is, that’s what’s wrong. That is what’s wrong, and that is dangerous,” Hagel said.

http://nebraska.statepaper.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2007/03/28/460ae969
30c86


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Thursday, March 29, 2007 7:57 AM

SHINYED



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Thursday, March 29, 2007 7:58 AM

SOUPCATCHER


As a nice complement to Bob Altemeyer's research and John Dean's book I'd like to add a series of posts by Sara Robinson over at Orcinus ( http://dneiwert.blogspot.com - scroll down the left sidebar for "Cracks in the Wall" and "Tunnels and Bridges"). She addresses what we know about why authoritarian followers have stepped away from authoritarian leaders and how to foster and support that positive behavior. The first installment is a summary of Altemeyer's research so I'll skip to the end where she sets up the next installments:
Quote:

excerpted from http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2006/08/cracks-in-wall-part-i-defining.ht
ml

Dean is also emphatic that authoritarianism, in all its forms, is completely antithetical to both classical conservatism (he still considers himself a Goldwater conservative), and to the founding ideals of America. We must be clear: when right-wingers threaten liberals, they are directly threatening the seminal political impulse that created our nation. An operative democracy depends on having a populace that is open to new ideas, able to think for itself, confident in its abilities, willing to take risks, and capable of mutual trust. America was founded as the world's first radically liberal state. History has shown us that the nation's best moments, past and future, are created by people with a strong liberal orientation.

Authoritarians aren't merely constitutionally incapable of this kind of cultural and political openness; they are actively hostile to it, and seek to stamp it out wherever they find it. Everything in their souls drives them to dismantle the democratic impulse, and bring people under the heel of hierarchical authority -- which is why history has also shown us that the nation's worst moments, past and future, are created by people with a strong right-wing authoritarian orientation.

In my next post, I'll move away from Dean's book, and into a deeper look at the psychology of right-wing followers. We'll take a brief look at some of the reasons people are drawn into right-wing authoritarian belief systems -- and a longer look at the events that cause some of these same followers to eventually choose to abandon those systems.

* emphasis in the original *



* edited to add: Wow. Right on cue we have ShinyEd exhibiting exactly the kind of behavior Mrs. Robinson italicized in the above excerpt. If I had tried to prove that point I couldn't have done a better job.

* edited to add: And the post has now been erased.

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Thursday, March 29, 2007 8:25 AM

DAYVE


Quote:

Originally posted by ShinyEd:
Who made America a fucking joke today?...



Who indeed Ed, who indeed.

Look brother, i'm not trying to piss you off, but please try to open your eyes to what's going on in this world today. I love my country just as much as you and because i do - i complain. I complain everytime i see some power hungry egomaniac try to destroy the basic principals this country was founded on. I don't 'hate' a man simply because they prefer one ideology over another – it’s everyone’s right to make their own decisions, but to blindly follow without questioning authority can, and does often lead to disaster.

If I offended you with those cartoons, I do apologize, but at least try to be a little open minded about those with differing opinions. I try, really, I’ve tried to see the reasoning behind this administrations policies on many issues, but, honestly, in the end I just can’t.

As far as satire goes I just can’t help myself, to paraphrase Julius Caesar, ‘I came, I saw, I satirized…’

If the news is bad, don’t blame the messenger.

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Thursday, March 29, 2007 9:11 AM

FREDGIBLET


Quote:

Originally posted by Dayve:
Quote:

Originally posted by fredgiblet:
http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey



Thanks for that link.



I figured that this wasn't a particularly serious thread, but when you posted that comment about the neo-cons it sparked a memory. I haven't finished the linked article yet myself but it is a very interesting read.

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Thursday, March 29, 2007 9:11 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Dayve:

..why do neo-cons hate people who actually think for themselves...??


Why do liberal believe they are thinking for themselves?

H

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Thursday, March 29, 2007 9:26 AM

DAYVE


Quote:

Why do liberal believe they are thinking for themselves?


good zinger...
but in truth, i prefer the term 'individual' to either liberal or conservative - and as an individual my own self, i tend to do most of my own thinking...

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Thursday, March 29, 2007 9:34 AM

DAYVE


Quote:

Originally posted by fredgiblet:
I figured that this wasn't a particularly serious thread,



Sure, you're right, sometimes satire is more humorous than serious - even the edgier stuff… but it can be used to make a point also. The point I was reaching for here (with pictures), is in the line by Mr. Tomorrow:
Quote:


In short, they're laying the groundwork to blame the entire mess on those of us who opposed it from the start…



That’s what I meant by …saw that coming…

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Thursday, March 29, 2007 9:56 AM

DAYVE


Quote:

Originally posted by SoupCatcher:
As a nice complement to Bob Altemeyer's research and John Dean's book I'd like to add a series of posts by Sara Robinson over at Orcinus ( http://dneiwert.blogspot.com - scroll down the left sidebar for "Cracks in the Wall" and "Tunnels and Bridges").



This is an excellent piece of writing. I think everyone regardless of political ideology should read it. We could all stand to learn from the research on the authoritarian personality and how it affects society as a whole. Although, I suppose those who might recognize a few of the traits of the authoritarian figure as some of their own may be a little offended.
It certainly rings true to me.

Again:
http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2006/08/cracks-in-wall-part-i-defining.ht
ml


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Thursday, March 29, 2007 11:10 AM

SOUPCATCHER


Quote:

Originally posted by Dayve:
This is an excellent piece of writing. I think everyone regardless of political ideology should read it. We could all stand to learn from the research on the authoritarian personality and how it affects society as a whole. Although, I suppose those who might recognize a few of the traits of the authoritarian figure as some of their own may be a little offended.
It certainly rings true to me.

Again:
http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2006/08/cracks-in-wall-part-i-defining.ht
ml



I definitely appreciated Mrs. Robinson's take on this issue. The series is not indexed well (there are no links from post to post) so here are all eight parts:
http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2006/08/cracks-in-wall-part-i-defining.ht
ml

http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2006/08/cracks-in-wall-part-ii-listening-
to.html

http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2006/08/cracks-in-wall-part-iii-escape-la
dders.html

http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2006/08/tunnels-and-bridges-part-i-divide
-and.html

http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2006/08/tunnels-and-bridges-part-ii-nothi
ng-to.html

http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2006/08/tunnels-and-bridges-part-iii-bigg
er.html

http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2006/09/tunnels-and-bridges-part-iv-landi
ng.html

http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2006/09/tunnels-and-bridges-short-detour.
html


It's definitely Koufax worthy as one of the best series from the liberal side of the blogosphere in 2006.

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Thursday, March 29, 2007 11:48 AM

DAYVE


Quote:

Originally posted by SoupCatcher:
.....liberal side of the blogosphere in 2006.



Thanks Soupcatcher -

Your last line reminded me of something I've wanted to post about. I could start a new thread, but frankly, I don't like being a 'thread hog', if you get my meaning... but what I wanted to get some opinion on is about the blogosphere - all sides of the political spectrum - I have a few favorites and look at a lot of others from time to time.

Believe it or not, I really do try to read both sides of an issue. I've found that to get at the real crux of a matter I go to the more liberal blogs - to me they offer views based on the facts more than some of the right wing blogs I've read. (just my opinion)

I would be interested in knowing which blogs people here rely on for information and to some degree why they like it.

So, if anyone would like to suggest blogs, right or left or in between, please do. (it's those in between ones I want to find)

Thanks


Edit: I realize I have gotten off topic here, but the thread didn't seem to be building much momentum - however please ignore this request if you have more to add to the previous topic.

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Thursday, March 29, 2007 2:40 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by deepgirl187:
LOL, Dayve. That pretty much sums up the way things have been going the past few years.

*************************************************

"If you want to win a war, you must serve no master but your ambition."




Yeah, great economy, low unemployment, low interest rates, the highest stock market numbers - EVER! Yep, things have been pretty much going that way. ( Thank W, too! )

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Thursday, March 29, 2007 3:00 PM

DEEPGIRL187


Great economy? Low unemployment? Maybe in your state (or reality for that matter). Things are pretty down in the dumps here in good ol' Michigan.

Edit: And on another note, since when was all of this not funny?

*************************************************

"If you want to win a war, you must serve no master but your ambition."


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Thursday, March 29, 2007 3:14 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


TERRORIST LOVER!!!!!!!!!

But seriously, as much as this cartoon is right on the mark, do you actually believe anything the Demoncrats have to say either?

Any way you look at it, you lose. ~ Simon & Garfunkle



EDIT: Just noticed SoupCatcher talk about a Mrs. Robinson in a post above and thought it was funny. De, De De De, De De De De De, De De De De De De.......

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Thursday, March 29, 2007 4:57 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Believe it or not, I really do try to read both sides of an issue. I've found that to get at the real crux of a matter I go to the more liberal blogs - to me they offer views based on the facts more than some of the right wing blogs I've read.

Well if you wanted a more rational viewpoint from the right, you could try Lew Rockwell, but it's more of a Libertarian/Right than Hard Right.

I may not agree with some of their points (as an anarchist, why would I ?) but they present logical, reasoned arguments instead of screaming rants, which earns em points in my book.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Thursday, March 29, 2007 8:19 PM

SOUPCATCHER


Dayve,

I mainly read liberal, progressive or center-left blogs so I'm guessing you're probably familiar with them (firedoglake, political animal, eschaton, DKos, orcinus, talking points memo and myDD I hit on a daily basis). If I'm looking to get more of a rational conservative point of view I might look at Andrew Sullivan's or John Cole's blogs. If I'm looking to feel better about my own humanity I'll check out the free republic or little green footballs so I can just shake my head.


6ixStringJack,
"EDIT: Just noticed SoupCatcher talk about a Mrs. Robinson in a post above and thought it was funny. De, De De De, De De De De De, De De De De De De......."
Absolutely intentional. . Try this on for size...

And here's to you, Mrs. Robinson
Jesus loves you more than you will know
But you're still a ho

(that rhyming scheme is just begging for all sorts of variation).


Frem,
I second the Lew Rockwell recommendation. I've read some good stuff on there. I disagree on the fiscal side of things but they do a good job of articulating their point of view.

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Friday, March 30, 2007 12:59 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Yeah, great economy, low unemployment, low interest rates, the highest stock market numbers I used to not believe Rue's posts about you bugging out of threads that weren't going your way , only to pop up in another thread with the same stuff. I thought... naaaaah, Auraptor's not THAT deliberate. Confused maybe, but sincere. But after facing serious questioning in your "economy" thread I see you abandoned your own thread only to pop up in this one with the same talking point.

SO I ask you once again to define "the economy" because I see you shifted your metrics again- away from consumer confidence and housing starts- and I expect that you would shift your metrics to whatever indicators were positive at the moment just to make a point about how GREAT!!!! the economy is doing.

I would think that someone who was sincere would be sincere enough to think about what they were saying. Doesn't it trouble you that you have to keep shifting reality in order to maintain a viewpoint?

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Friday, March 30, 2007 1:12 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
I would think that someone who was sincere would be sincere enough to think about what they were saying. Doesn't it trouble you that you have to keep shifting reality in order to maintain a viewpoint?

Just think, he'll be doing the same if a Democrat gets in next time, of course it'll be shifting to whatever indicator is bad at the time then



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Friday, March 30, 2007 4:10 AM

DAYVE


Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Any way you look at it, you lose. ~ Simon & Garfunkle



I'm a long time fan of those two and of Paul Simon's wife, Edie Brickell (she used to roam around these parts of tex).

Fact is, I did feel a lot like that song line as far as politics is concerned, (if i were a hair puller, I would probably be bald by now), but thanks to some open minded friends down in Austin and a few (very few), elected officials in my own state, I’ve changed my views a bit. I can detect the progressive philosophy making some inroads into the mainstream political arena. Some of my friends who are life long conservatives are looking for alternatives to the present situation we find ourselves in. Voters in Texas are, for the most part, conservative, but they also have an independent side as well, and often choose a candidate based on that person’s abilities rather than his political affiliation. Maybe not so much lately, but I have seen it happen.

As far as trusting or not trusting any politician, the problem we have (IMHO), is the lack of truly qualified, independent individuals seeking elected office. Most candidates are simply flag bearers for their party or in the worst-case scenario, puppets controlled by powerful lobbyists.

Could it be that the best and brightest among us are simply not interested in taking on such a heavy responsibility? I know there are good people, with good intentions who want to work to make this world a better place for everyone, but with power often comes corruption and I fear that government as it operates these days has been corrupt for such a long time that I don’t blame anyone for their cynicism.

We can help make change happen, even if they are small ones. We can work on the local level to bring about change in the bigger picture. We can volunteer in any number of ways to effect change. It happens every day.

Sorry for all the personal opinions – I know the RWED forum is best served by presenting hard facts that can be verified. I will try to do so in future posts.

And thanks for all the blog recommendations. I have read Sullivan (when he was with New Republic), and I will check out Lew Rockwell.

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Friday, March 30, 2007 5:53 AM

FREMDFIRMA


By all means, don't apologise, WHY people form these opinions is every bit as valid as the evidence upon which they form them.

As for politicians, you being in Texas, the guy who you'd be VERY interested in from your point of view would be Ron Paul.
http://www.house.gov/paul/
And bear in mind, he's considering running for Prez, and *I* would vote for him, which is saying something considering my own political affiliations.
http://www.ronpaulexplore.com/

The song that's currently running through my head when I think about politics is actually Buffalo Springfield - For what it's worth.
There's somethin' happening here,
What it is ain't exactly clear.
There's a man with a gun over there,
Tellin' me I gotta beware.
I think it's time we stop,
Hey, what's that sound,
Everybody look what's going down...


-Frem


It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Friday, March 30, 2007 6:14 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:

I would think that someone who was sincere would be sincere enough to think about what they were saying. Doesn't it trouble you that you have to keep shifting reality in order to maintain a viewpoint?


Citizen's right, DISruptor is too fixated on how he wants to view things; logic and reason are beyond him, politically speaking.
There are still folk alive today that say Hitler was mis-understood, a good man, and framed regarding the holocaust.

The only good human, is a dead human Chrisisall

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Friday, March 30, 2007 6:41 AM

KANEMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:

I would think that someone who was sincere would be sincere enough to think about what they were saying. Doesn't it trouble you that you have to keep shifting reality in order to maintain a viewpoint?


Citizen's right, DISruptor is too fixated on how he wants to view things; logic and reason are beyond him, politically speaking.
There are still folk alive today that say Hitler was mis-understood, a good man, and framed regarding the holocaust.

The only good human, is a dead human Chrisisall



This post is just another drive-bye from shitsisall. Anyone who has been here for more than a week expects this crap... Auruptor's post ARE logical, debatable, and thought provoking...Wish I could say the same for yours. That you disagree with his opinion is typical. Between you, Ruse, stygmataM, Citz, and the other RWE cronies.. nothing of substance comes out of your keyboards. So, keep stopping in with your 'blankisall' retarded nonsense....At least I know I am a "troll"...Good day


NeededaSlapIsAll

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Friday, March 30, 2007 6:49 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by kaneman:
Auruptor's post ARE logical, debatable, and thought provoking...

Thanks for the laugh, oh ye of few working neurons. This says it all regarding you logic circuits.
Just look at what it says under 'Kaneman' in your posts. You're not just a troll, but a twisted one. G'day.

Drive-by Chrisisall

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Friday, March 30, 2007 8:47 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Thanks for the laugh, oh ye of few working neurons. This says it all regarding you logic circuits.
Just look at what it says under 'Kaneman' in your posts. You're not just a troll, but a twisted one. G'day.

Drive-by Chrisisall

And on AU's side

Funny that



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Friday, March 30, 2007 9:12 AM

SIRI


Hooray! Satire is still alive and well in the good ol' US of A. Thank God - oh, am I allowed to say that? Got to go and check the rule book, I mean the Patriot Act.

Satire may lean closely to sarcasm - which is usually demeaning and frequently contains unjusted attack. Still, satire - particularly to address social and political issues - has long been an intelligent and amusing manner in which to present information.

Long live the satirist!!

Siri

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Friday, March 30, 2007 9:15 AM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


And yet Auraptor's post, out of all the players involved, was the most on topic and ad hominem free (least trollish).
Funny that.

Posting to stir stuff up.

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Friday, March 30, 2007 9:16 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
And yet Auraptor's post, out of all the players involved, was the most on topic and ad hominem free (least trollish).
Funny that.

Posting to stir stuff up.

Oh look it's AttacksByEmail.



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Friday, March 30, 2007 9:27 AM

DAYVE


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
WHY people form these opinions is every bit as valid as the evidence upon which they form them.



Thanks for that. I agree.

And you're right about Ron Paul. He is one of the few state reps. that I do admire. He certainly does not fit the mold as laid out by some in his party.

My state representative, Chet Edwards, http://edwards.house.gov/html/bio.cfm - a moderate democrat, who even though has not always voted the way I would like, has still done some good things in this state. So, I try to keep the faith.

edit to add - my favorite anti-war anthem.. a little Country Joe & The Fish

Well, come on Wall Street, don't move slow,
Why man, this is war au-go-go.
There's plenty good money to be made
By supplying the Army with the tools of the trade,
Just hope and pray that if they drop the bomb,
They drop it on the Viet Cong.

And it's one, two, three,
What are we fighting for ?
Don't ask me, I don't give a damn,
Next stop is Vietnam.
And it's five, six, seven,
Open up the pearly gates,
Well there ain't no time to wonder why
Whoopee! we're all gonna die.

(sung along with that one a few times)

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Friday, March 30, 2007 10:15 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
And yet Auraptor's post, out of all the players involved, was the most on topic and ad hominem free

Big deal. I can be on-topic, ad-hominem-free, and full of crap too, but what's the point?

Feisty Chrisisall

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Saturday, March 31, 2007 5:59 AM

KANEMAN


....Meanwhile the circle jerk continues.....

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Saturday, March 31, 2007 6:22 AM

DAYVE



...that's a little more information than i needed KMan, but glad you're having a good time.....

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Saturday, March 31, 2007 3:57 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by Dayve:

my favorite anti-war anthem.. a little Country Joe & The Fish

Well, come on Wall Street, don't move slow,
Why man, this is war au-go-go.
There's plenty good money to be made
By supplying the Army with the tools of the trade,
Just hope and pray that if they drop the bomb,
They drop it on the Viet Cong.

And it's one, two, three,
What are we fighting for ?
Don't ask me, I don't give a damn,
Next stop is Vietnam.
And it's five, six, seven,
Open up the pearly gates,
Well there ain't no time to wonder why
Whoopee! we're all gonna die.

(sung along with that one a few times)



Damn, Dayve, all it needs is a few new verses. Lessee, what rhymes with " Iraq "? Damn, nothin'... Oh well ,maybe with " Iran" in a coupla weeks.

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Saturday, March 31, 2007 10:18 PM

SOUPCATCHER


Hmmmm, art for sanity?

I was torn between a little Arlo Guthrie ("Shrink. I want to kill. KILL.") and some Edwin Starr ("What is it good for? Absolutely nothing") but I ended up on this great duet between Mahalia Jackson and Dinah Shore:



Ain't gonna study war no more.

* edited to add:
I found that I couldn't bring up Arlo without including my favorite picture of the original Guthrie:


It's too bad that there aren't more modern day versions of Woody Guthrie or Will Rogers. People who would walk up and grab a neo-conservative by the testicles and ask them, "Why do you hate the Constitution?" Or maybe we need a modern day Eugene Debs or Emma Goldman instead.

* edited one more time: Off on a different tangent...

We went up to the Maritime Hall in the City back in 1998 to listen to Billy Bragg sing songs that he had arranged from recently uncovered Woody Guthrie lyrics. A lot of good stuff that ended up on the Mermaid Avenue album. My personal favorite song that I listened to that night was California Stars (which you can listen to here, as long as you ignore the images of the creation of one of the gayest drawings - I think of it as the "pickle tree" - ever:

).

And bouncing once more. Here's another good Billy Bragg and Wilco song (

). Fortunately, the accompanying images are a helluva lot more copacetic.

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Sunday, April 1, 2007 6:51 AM

DAYVE



There are a quite a few musicians out these days that have strong social/political messages in their music - Neil Young is still plugging along and Steve Earl with his Revolution Starts Now recalls shades of Guthrie -

One singer/songwriter of note is Eliza Gilkyson. Her song “Man of God” is particular favorite of mine. Here is just a portion of the song.
http://www.elizagilkyson.com/Man_of_God.mp3

This is Texas Music has a review of her 2005 album Paradise Hotel here: http://www.thisistexasmusic.com/profiles/elizagilkyson.html

Quote:

Ultimately, "Man of God" is a classic folk song of protest. It's a musical objection to an unjust war, hypocritical leadership, and the entire military-industrial complex that aided Bush's ascent to the presidency and has since profited from the war.

"I'm mad," says Gilkyson. "And I want other people to be mad about this too."



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Tuesday, April 3, 2007 4:21 PM

MARTIANWAY


Oh, bugs. Just when I thought this thread was getting good, it dissolves into a catfight.

On another note (and in a vain attempt to move this thread in a somewhat less cat-fighty direction), anybody know of Orson Scott Card? The scifi writer? Ender's Game? Hope so. Anyway, he writes political essays when he's not writing scifi books, and he's a damn good writer. Neocon, too, which is just gold in the age of so many really badly written conservative blogs.

So, any neocons who are sick of being ganged up upon on message boards and want to try and bulletproof their arguements, you might wanna go here:

http://www.ornery.org/essays/warwatch/index.html

Any liberal/progressive people who are trying to understand the intricate workings of a neocon mind (and get some answers to all the "what were they thinking?" questions), you might wanna go here ( http://www.ornery.org/essays/warwatch/index.html) too.

I know one thing we did right
was the day we started to fight
Keep your eyes on the prize,
hold on, hold on...

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