Executive Order: Blocking Property of Certain Persons Who Threaten Stabilization Efforts in Iraq by canttakesky

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Executive Order: Blocking Property of Certain Persons Who Threaten Stabilization Efforts in Iraq

POSTED BY: CANTTAKESKY
UPDATED: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 03:00
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VIEWED: 915
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Monday, July 23, 2007 6:59 AM

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/07/20070717-3.html

It allows the govt to block property of people who are deemed to:

Quote:

(i) to have committed, or to pose a significant risk of committing, an act or acts of violence that have the purpose or effect of:

(A) threatening the peace or stability of Iraq or the Government of Iraq; or

(B) undermining efforts to promote economic reconstruction and political reform in Iraq or to provide humanitarian assistance to the Iraqi people;

Different interpretations have risen on both the left and the right, but both sides are imagining worse possible scenarios.

http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=6377

http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=22993

What do you think? Is the order reasonable or draconian?

Can't Take My Gorram Sky

--------------
Aude sapere (Dare to know). -- Samuel Hahnemann, M.D.

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Monday, July 23, 2007 2:16 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Just another one to add to the pile while the proles watch american idol, really.

And a natural extension of the outright theft that is asset forfeiture in any form whatever.

I mean, it's not like the cops around here won't steal your nice car just for drivin down cass corridor, you know.

No surprise at all, nope.

-F

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Tuesday, July 24, 2007 5:59 AM

CANTTAKESKY

To me, this is new on several levels.

1. While hate crime laws impact free speech, the accused still have constitutional protections such as trial by jury and due process. The Secretary of *Treasury* alone has the power to serve as judge, jury, and executioner.

2. While RICO allows property seizures, the accused still have access to due process. There are mechanisms in place to be found innocent and regain one's property. This order removes all due process rights for someone accused of threatening stabilization efforts.

3. Most importantly, this order allows blocking property of persons who are innocent of the targeted crimes altogether. This is new. People can be deemed culpable and punishable simply by engaging in any financial, material, or service transaction with someone whose property has been blocked.

4. The subtle pressures on free speech is readily evident. Would I be more reluctant to organize anti-war protests and demonstrations, knowing that some violence can happen at such events, and that I could be deemed to pose a significant risk to acts of violence? Would donors be more reluctant to give to my organization just to be safe than sorry, in case I am blocked?

Let's say Mr. Anderson gives money to a charity that gave humanitarian provisions to an Iraqi insurgent. The charity can be blocked, Mr. Anderson can be blocked, and the guy who rents the motel room to Mr. Anderson after he is left homeless can be blocked.

In the past, executive orders blocking property have been very specific, such as blocking the property of the govt of Iran, or the Taliban and anyone associated with the Taliban. This is the first I've seen where the President of the USA is legislating domestic criminal law with broad and vague strokes, while appointing a financial expert as ultimate and only authority over the targeted criminal intent.

I get that cops now can do whatever they want, but that is corruption in small denominations. This is an official federal erosion of Constitutional rights that I believe is unprecedented.

Can't Take My Gorram Sky

--------------
Aude sapere (Dare to know). -- Samuel Hahnemann, M.D.

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Tuesday, July 24, 2007 8:16 AM

FREMDFIRMA

You think ?

I suggest you have a good looksee at the Federal Register, all the way back to 1976.

Bring an airsick bag, you'll need one.

-F

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Tuesday, July 24, 2007 2:24 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

bbbbddddeeeee.... duh... dribblleee duh...

i don't smoke so raise smoking taxes to fund kids healthcare.... duh

drool... i have nothing to hide, so i'm happy there are cameras everywhere watching our every move... ddddfffeeee

i dont' have any property, or anything so none of this matters.... duuuur

duuuh... i don't understand why you're complaining about any of this. you must be a terrorist.... drooooooll......

slobber.... i LOVE BIG BROTHER!

Remember kiddies.... everything you know is wrong.

2+2 = 4

War is Peace
Slavery is Freedom

This message brought to you by Proles for Saftey & Security

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Tuesday, July 24, 2007 2:47 PM

MISSTRESSAHARA

And to think the biggest news of the day was Lindsay Lohan getting arrested for drunk driving and cocaine possession. Ya think the suits in Hollywood are being controlled by the government? Y'know, like in Max Headroom? Nah, can't be, what would the government benefit controlling all the air waves and tv signals?

What's that I'm hearing in the distance? Is that the sound of goose steps? They're getting closer. Hey my fellow Canadians, maybe we should consider closing the border, or ya know, building a wall. Kidding.... kinda.

"The ranks are marching two by two, OH NO, OH NO.
The ranks are marching two by two, OH NO, OH NO.
The ranks are marching two by two,
Careful what you say or they'll come for you,
And the sheeple all sang, 'Why did that idol win?'"

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
~Peter*Peter*Power>~re-peater~

HEROES IS MY CRACK!

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

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Tuesday, July 24, 2007 3:22 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Mistress, might I refer you to the well known, and fully admitted Operation: MOCKINGBIRD as a previous example of such media manipulation ?

Just like alphabet agencies collecting info they shouldn't be, in spite of it being outright illegal and against their charter...

Do you really think any of the "black bag" community ever even pauses, even for a second, in doings like this ?

There's a reason I want em de-funded and disbanded yanno.

I'd reccommend against building a wall however, cause then it'd be a little harder for candaian casinos to rake in the dough from us idiot michiganders

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Tuesday, July 24, 2007 5:30 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Side note here: Being a Michigander, You ever go to the pier in South Haven Frem. Some beautiful sunsets with that lighthouse man. Looks really cool in the winter when everything's frozen and the icicles build up all around it too. Caught me a yummy smallmouth bass off there once when I was a kid.

Heh... yup, I was a FIP, or a FIB.... I've been called both before.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Tuesday, July 24, 2007 11:29 PM

MISSTRESSAHARA

My post sounded tongue and cheek, but I'm well aware the governments used the media past/present/future to their benefit (read a thread about Fux news being a mouthpiece for the gop)

I was quite serious, believe me.

And that wall don't sound too bad neither.

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
~Peter*Peter*Power>~re-peater~

HEROES IS MY CRACK!

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

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Tuesday, July 24, 2007 11:47 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Fux News being the only ones lying to people on behalf of the GOP while the rest of the media lies to the people on behalf of the Demons.

Ain't no difference between the two of 'em.

Just easier to hate the GOP for things like when Bush did the only damn thing I've seen him do in 6 years that was conservative by knocking down that ludicris bill to fund children's healthcare with an additional $.61 per pack of smokes. Really.... why is that my problem and why should it be my burden? I've got a $1.25 raise on my takes in Wisconsin by the end of summer because of Doyle's Communist ass.

Easy to hate on the GOP when the Demons own the slogan "for the children". Common sense doesn't stand a chance against MADD.

"F

the children!" ~ George Carlin (Definately not a fan of the GOP)

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Wednesday, July 25, 2007 2:26 PM

MISSTRESSAHARA

Who said I was a fan of the Democrats either. As far as I'm concerned your trading one crap government for another. There's no lesser of two evils here.

We have enough to deal with with 3 political parties fighting each other while the comman man/woman suffers. Only when governments (all branches, all parties) are held accountable and culpable for their actions will there be anything remotely like a stable country. But I don't see that happening for any country.

Still, at least up here we can still knock down the Liberals, Conservatives and NDP and not worry about being put under surveilance, that's something I guesse.

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
~Peter*Peter*Power>~re-peater~

HEROES IS MY CRACK!

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

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Monday, July 30, 2007 5:58 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Quote:
Originally posted by Misstressahara:
Who said I was a fan of the Democrats either. As far as I'm concerned your trading one crap government for another. There's no lesser of two evils here.

Haha.... agreed.

Quote:
Still, at least up here we can still knock down the Liberals, Conservatives and NDP and not worry about being put under surveilance, that's something I guesse.

LOL... I wonder how many alphabet agencies listen in on my phone conversations and watch my blog posts. I'm sure I'm an entertaining read, here and elsewhere.

I'd like to share your confidence that you're not being put under surveilence, but I just think your government has better PR than ours does. They've been listening in on Americans for a LOT longer than just the Bush administration, and for 95% of that time most americans would have dismissed that thought as crazy-person talk. They've just gotten large enough and the citizens have become complacient enough that Big Gov doesn't care anymore if we all know it, and it's not just the "looney toons" like me telling people about it.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Monday, July 30, 2007 7:20 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Folks, this bit of chicanery's been going on since the 1800's - it's not even news to anyone who's looked into it at any time since then.
http://zmagsite.zmag.org/Mar2006/dunn0306.html

And mind you, this is just the known and documented crap and a tiny sample thereof

COINTELPRO
CHAOS
RESISTANCE
BLUEBIRD
MERRIMAC
PHOENIX
MINARET
MONARCH
SHAMROCK
AJAX
NORTHWOODS
REX84
CONDOR
BLUEBIRD
ARTICHOKE
HTLINGUAL
PBFORTUNE
PBSUCCESS
CAMELOT
PAPERCLIP
CHARLY
WASHTUB
FUBELT
PANTOMIME
CYCLONE
JMWAVE
MONGOOSE
MASCAL
CHATTER
MERLIN
OPUS
FORTY

Tell me again, which side is the terrorists ?
It's a bit confusing, you know....

Seriously, look those up, any of em, and ponder the fact that YOUR tax money goes into that bullshit while people are starving and homeless on the street.

You wanna fight terrorism, you can start by defunding out alphabet agency mad dogs and breaking their charters - they've done more harm to the american people than any middle eastern terrorista could ever even DREAM of.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Monday, July 30, 2007 8:16 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

How do we defund the agencies? I'm down with it man.

I'd love to not pay taxes to fund that shit, but I'd like to keep the bullets out of my body too.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Tuesday, July 31, 2007 3:00 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Simple, you vote for the Guy that would DO it.
He clearly stated he'd sink the IRS as soon as possible from the moment he was elected, and on Constitutional grounds, these alphabet goons would soon follow.

He's got the advantage of having naught but his life to blackmail him with - and he's lived a full and rich one, so they couldn't scare him off.

What they gonna do, bust a cap in him ?
That's freedom, innit ?

HON. RON PAUL OF TEXAS
BEFORE THE US HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
June 23, 2004

Spending Billions on our Failed Intelligence Agencies

Mr. Speaker, I rise in opposition to this legislation. Though I certainly recognize the legitimate national security role of our intelligence community, I have concerns about this authorization and the questionable role played by components of the intelligence community.

Specifically, I am concerned about our history of secret regime changes carried out by our intelligence apparatus. More often than not, we see many of the problems we face today were created as a result of this unwise practice of forcibly changing regimes in secret.

The stories of such activities are numerous. In 1953 the CIA overthrew Mohammad Mossadegh in Iran, installing the Shah as dictator. This led to increasing anti-Americanism, the overthrow of the Shah in 1979, the kidnapping of Americans, the establishment of a hard-line Islamic regime hostile to the United States. In the 1980s the United States provided covert support to Saddam Hussein’s Iraq in its war with Iran. Ten years later the United States went to war against Saddam Hussein and then 11 years after that the United States went to war again against Saddam’s Iraq. In the 1980s the United States provided weapons and training to the Taliban and what later became Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan as they sought to overthrow the communist government in power. Some 20 years later, that same Taliban and Osama bin Laden struck out against the United States. The United States then went to war against that Taliban government.

I am also concerned about the efficacy of our intelligence community. The intelligence budget seems to grow every year, but seldom do my colleagues ask what exactly we are getting for our constituents’ money. It may be unfair that we only hear about the intelligence community’s failures and shortcomings, but we cannot help but be concerned over so many such failures in recent years. Despite the tens of billions we spend on these myriad intelligence agencies, it is impossible to ignore the failure of the intelligence community to detect and prevent the September 11, 2001 attacks.

Additionally, as we now see so clearly, our intelligence community failed completely to accurately assess the nature of the Iraqi threat. We were told of weapons of mass destruction capable of reaching the United States. This proved to be false. We were told of Iraq’s relationship with Al-Qaeda. This proved to be false. The intelligence community relied heavily - perhaps almost exclusively --on Iraqi exile and convicted criminal Ahmad Chalabi to provide intelligence on Iraq and most of it turned out to be incorrect, perhaps intentionally misleading. Now we are told that Chalabi and his organization may have passed sensitive intelligence to Iran. We have read reports of secret pseudo-agencies set up in the Pentagon and elsewhere whose role appears to have been to politicize intelligence in order to force pre-determined conclusions. This does not serve the American people well. These are all by any measure grave failures, costing us incalculably in human lives and dollars. Yet from what little we can know about this bill, the solution is to fund more of the same. I would hope that we might begin coming up with new approaches to our intelligence needs.

I encourage my colleagues to reject this bill and instead begin looking for new ways to strengthen the legitimate functions of our intelligence community so as to better protect the borders and citizens of the United States.

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