REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

To save America, we need another 9/11

POSTED BY: CREVANREAVER
UPDATED: Saturday, August 18, 2007 03:16
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Thursday, August 9, 2007 3:16 PM

CREVANREAVER


At least that's the opinion of a columnist for Philadelphia Daily News named Stu Bykofsky.

Here's what he wrote in an article:

Quote:

ONE MONTH from The Anniversary, I'm thinking another 9/11 would help America.

What kind of a sick bastard would write such a thing?

A bastard so sick of how splintered we are politically - thanks mainly to our ineptitude in Iraq - that we have forgotten who the enemy is.

It is not Bush and it is not Hillary and it is not Daily Kos or Bill O'Reilly or Giuliani or Barack. It is global terrorists who use Islam to justify their hideous sins, including blowing up women and children.

Iraq has fractured the U.S. into jigsaw pieces of competing interests that encourage our enemies. We are deeply divided and division is weakness.

Most Americans today believe Iraq was a mistake. Why?

Not because Americans are "anti-war."

Americans have turned their backs because the war has dragged on too long and we don't have the patience for a long slog. We've been in Iraq for four years, but to some it seems like a century. In contrast, Britain just pulled its soldiers out of Northern Ireland where they had been, often being shot at, almost 40 years.

That's not the American way.

In Iraq, we don't believe our military is being beaten on the battleground. It's more that there is no formal "battleground." There is the drip of daily casualties and victory is not around the corner. Americans are impatient. We like fast food and fast war.

Americans loved the 1991 Gulf War. It raged for just 100 hours when George H.W. Bush ended it with a declaration of victory. He sent a half-million troops into harm's way and we suffered fewer than 300 deaths.

America likes wars shorter than the World Series.

Bush I did everything right, Bush II did everything wrong - but he did it with the backing of Congress.

Because the war has been a botch so far, Democrats and Republicans are attacking one another, when they aren't attacking themselves. The dialog of discord echoes across America.

Turn back to 9/11.

Remember the community of outrage and national resolve? America had not been so united since the first Day of Infamy - 12/7/41.

We knew who the enemy was then.

We knew who the enemy was shortly after 9/11.

Because we have mislaid 9/11, we have endless sideshow squabbles about whether the surge is working, if we are "safer" now, whether the FBI should listen in on foreign phone calls, whether cops should detain odd-acting "flying imams," whether those plotting alleged attacks on Fort Dix or Kennedy airport are serious threats or amateur bumblers. We bicker over the trees while the forest is ablaze.

America's fabric is pulling apart like a cheap sweater.

What would sew us back together?

Another 9/11 attack.

The Golden Gate Bridge. Mount Rushmore. Chicago's Wrigley Field. The Philadelphia subway system. The U.S. is a target-rich environment for al Qaeda.

Is there any doubt they are planning to hit us again?

If it is to be, then let it be. It will take another attack on the homeland to quell the chattering of chipmunks and to restore America's righteous rage and singular purpose to prevail.

The unity brought by such an attack sadly won't last forever.

The first 9/11 proved that.


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Thursday, August 9, 2007 3:41 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


I say we fire the dude's ass! Let him join Churchill in the unemployment line !

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Friday, August 10, 2007 3:18 AM

FREMDFIRMA


How bout not having a war in the first fucking place.. but that'd make just too much sense, wouldn't it ?

Seriously, for what we've spent on this ridiculous crap already, we coulda put a price on these bastards heads so high they'd be bringin em in by the dozens and we wouldn't have had to do jack diddly but stand there with a basket to collect em and hand out the checks.

And STILL it woulda cost less, but nooo, the MIC had to get their cut, right ?

It's insanity, is what it is, and whoever wrote this bit belongs in a goddamn asylum, or even better, slap a rifle in his hand and put his ass on patrol in Haditha, instead of cheerleading from his plush suburbian gated community.

Grrr.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Friday, August 10, 2007 3:24 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:


Seriously, for what we've spent on this ridiculous crap already, we coulda put a price on these bastards heads so high they'd be bringin em in by the dozens and we wouldn't have had to do jack diddly but stand there with a basket to collect em and hand out the checks.


Frem, you think too clearly and realistically to be the President, but I'd still vote for ya!

Creme de la Frem Chrisisall

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Friday, August 10, 2007 3:39 AM

AMITON


I'm having trouble getting excited about statements like this anymore. I'm hearing them more and more, and I think I'm just getting disillusioned that people can't see the inherent flaws in that logic. Just dealing with the wrongheadedness (and btw, where did the word wrongheaded make its way into our vernacular?) of this line of thinking is difficult. Do people actually think that they're being so insightful by opposing their own natural perspective that they can't (or won't) see the shortcomings of such a mindset?

Amiton.

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Friday, August 10, 2007 3:42 AM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
How bout not having a war in the first fucking place.. but that'd make just too much sense, wouldn't it ?


I went out drinking last night and I'm suffering because of it this morning. Should I make an attempt to try to alleviate my symptoms? You know, take an aspirin, re-hydrate, eat a greasy meal, start drinking again? Or should I sit around and lament the fact that I went out drinking in the first place?
Which do you think will be most helpful to me now?

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Friday, August 10, 2007 3:54 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:

Which do you think will be most helpful to me now?

Learning from your mistake. But we really don't do that, do we? You'll drink too much again without hydrating and vitamin-ing-up first, and we'll have another war without preparing a long term strategy or determining it's potential effectiveness or necessity...it's the way of things, I guess.

Chrisisall

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Friday, August 10, 2007 4:58 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


You know, aside from the fact that we invaded Iraq for specious reasons, there IS such a thing as "the Powell Doctrine", and it was created from the bitter experience of Vietnam. It was meant to avoid quagmires like Northern Ireland and Iraq, and it goes
Quote:

The questions posed by the Powell Doctrine, which should be answered affirmatively before military action, are:

1. Is a vital national security interest threatened?
2. Do we have a clear attainable objective?
3. Have the risks and costs been fully and frankly analyzed?
4. Have all other non-violent policy means been fully exhausted?
5. Is there a plausible exit strategy to avoid endless entanglement?
6. Have the consequences of our action been fully considered?
7. Is the action supported by the American people?
8. Do we have genuine broad international support?

It seems to me that every single point of the Doctrine was violated in the Iraq invasion and, not too surprisingly, we're in a quagmire. Lesson have been learned, we just didn't pay attention to them. I'm with Frem- If we don't learn from the past we're doomed to repeat it.

Oh yeah, I'm with Rue- This guy is a sick bastard and should be on the unemployment line.




---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Friday, August 10, 2007 6:31 AM

HKCAVALIER


What an ugly, ugly view of humanity this joker has. And for the sake of family values let's hope all the mothers in this country die horribly--that'd bring families together right quick, wouldn't it? And while we're at it, lets put all our children in Skinner boxes so they'll grow up to be artistic geniuses! Reminds me of a bizarro video I saw the other day on YouTube:



Good news for the dems, right?

Yeah, people wanting to leave a legacy for their grandchildren are just "narcissistic." When did the right decide that Americans are hopelessly irrational and childish? Or has that been the premise all along?

Guess we've achieved the Chinese curse. These are some plenty interesting times.


HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Friday, August 10, 2007 7:05 AM

MALBADINLATIN


Quote:

Originally posted by BigDamnNobody: I went out drinking last night and I'm suffering because of it this morning. Should I make an attempt to try to alleviate my symptoms? You know, take an aspirin, re-hydrate, eat a greasy meal, start drinking again? Or should I sit around and lament the fact that I went out drinking in the first place?
Which do you think will be most helpful to me now?


All time #1 works every time hang over cure:
Drink one small can of V-8 Juice with 1/4 teaspoon of cayenne pepper. Go outside and fall asleep in the direct sunlight wearing only shorts for 2 hours, or sit in a sauna for 1/2 hour. Sweating is the key, when you wake up rehydrate thoroughly. If you still feel sick go back to sleep till it works or you're sunburnt. Then you won't feel the pain of the hangover as much as the sunburn.

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Friday, August 10, 2007 8:46 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

I went out drinking last night and I'm suffering because of it this morning. Should I make an attempt to try to alleviate my symptoms? You know, take an aspirin, re-hydrate, eat a greasy meal, start drinking again? Or should I sit around and lament the fact that I went out drinking in the first place?
Which do you think will be most helpful to me now?

I think you should stay the course. Keep on with what you were doing last night. Or better yet, surge your drinking. Just do what you were doing last night, but faster.


---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Friday, August 10, 2007 3:39 PM

ANTIMASON


good call!

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Friday, August 10, 2007 4:44 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


We already had one 9/11, and look where we are. I'd think the Left wing would be cheering for the terrorist next time.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Saturday, August 11, 2007 3:08 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Ain't the left wing which lobbed this cabal into power, and frankly, Shrub's done more damage to the USA than Osama could have ever in a million years even hoped for.

ter·ror·ism (ter-uh-riz-uhm)
–noun 1. the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, esp. for political purposes.

Sounds a whole lot like the TSA, DHS, FBI, CIA and related goons to me...

So yeah, let's talk about cheerleading terrorists, you pussillanimous fucktard, and we'll start with YOU, how bout that, eh ?

-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Saturday, August 11, 2007 3:25 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Wow. Just when I thought I was beginning to understand Rap, the fella reminds me he's in a parallel universe.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Saturday, August 11, 2007 4:01 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
We already had one 9/11, and look where we are. I'd think the Left wing would be cheering for the terrorist next time.


What do you mean you think they'd be cheering? They do it every day, every single day for years; alternately cheering, and defending, and emoting for their jihadist brothers...THEY SUPPORT EACHOTHER....greatly and almost lovingly assisting each team to attain their respective goals...
The Left is rooting for and doing everything possible to help the terrorists; a treasonous course of action designed to put their Howard Dean/Al Franken-approved candidates in office, and keep the current cast of Pelositic Pathetics chairing all the key committees that are responsible for gay love in maple trees being legal in front of my house...aka, their well-known agenda of godless, morality-challenged secular-progressive George Sorosesque mental masterbatory fantasy vision of America...while the terrorists use their useful idiots here in America and all over the world to forestall & weaken the world's resolve to unite against them. That video we all saw of Osama & Mull-Man Omar & Zawahiri all jumping & cheering at the buildings coming down on 911 was NOT about their success in killing thousands of innocent people of all religions and origins..NO NO...they were gleefully ecstatic and cheering with tears that it wasn't gonna take but a few minutes before the momentarily-silenced Left would be out in force as they hoped and counted on blaming America and Bush and Christianity & Jews for their little gift to us...heck, another 911 attack killing thousands of people(preferably in a Red State), would send the Left into a frenzied overdose of happiness and joy....they'd all be out there in one of their Soros organized-funded demonstrations holding up signs (printed by Haliburton's silly protestors' sign division) with sayings like : We Love Islamic Beheaders, or Slit My Throat Next Achmed, and Clean Towels and Sheets For Our Al Qaida-Caucus Democrats Free Here, and Stone Me, My Bearded Brothers, I Peeked At Your Camel's Tits, etc. etc. And then Barbara Streisand would sing a benefit concert to raise millions for the muslim widows of the attackers.

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Saturday, August 11, 2007 4:36 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

What do you mean you think they'd be cheering? They do it every day, every single day for years; alternately cheering, and defending, and emoting for their jihadist brothers...THEY SUPPORT EACHOTHER....greatly and almost lovingly assisting each team to attain their respective goals... The Left is rooting for and doing everything possible to help the terrorists; a treasonous course of action designed to put their Howard Dean/Al Franken-approved candidates in office, and keep the current cast of Pelositic Pathetics chairing all the key committees that are responsible for gay love in maple trees being legal in front of my house...aka, their well-known agenda of godless, morality-challenged secular-progressive George Sorosesque mental masterbatory fantasy vision of America...while the terrorists use their useful idiots here in America and all over the world to forestall & weaken the world's resolve to unite against them. That video we all saw of Osama & Mull-Man Omar & Zawahiri all jumping & cheering at the buildings coming down on 911 was NOT about their success in killing thousands of innocent people of all religions and origins..NO NO...they were gleefully ecstatic and cheering with tears that it wasn't gonna take but a few minutes before the momentarily-silenced Left would be out in force as they hoped and counted on blaming America and Bush and Christianity & Jews for their little gift to us...heck, another 911 attack killing thousands of people(preferably in a Red State), would send the Left into a frenzied overdose of happiness and joy....they'd all be out there in one of their Soros organized-funded demonstrations holding up signs (printed by Haliburton's silly protestors' sign division) with sayings like : We Love Islamic Beheaders, or Slit My Throat Next Achmed, and Clean Towels and Sheets For Our Al Qaida-Caucus Democrats Free Here, and Stone Me, My Bearded Brothers, I Peeked At Your Camel's Tits, etc. etc. And then Barbara Streisand would sing a benefit concert to raise millions for the muslim widows of the attackers.
Jongsstraw- This is a joke, right? Do you REALLY believe this? Are you so warped by your fear of terrorism that you think a significant percentage of the American population is helping the Jihadists? I asked you several times, and I'm gonna ask you again WHAT you think the threat really is and how you project it taking place. You never did answer my questions, and I'm thinking it's because you feel that a calm conversation is somehow subversive.

So let's start with something simple: What is the real threat, as you see it?

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Saturday, August 11, 2007 8:51 AM

ANTIMASON


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Jongsstraw- This is a joke, right? Do you REALLY believe this? Are you so warped by your fear of terrorism that you think a significant percentage of the American population is helping the Jihadists?



in the town i live, one of the few talk radio stations we have broadcasts Glen Beck, Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity on a daily basis. from my experience this IS what they believe.. the irony being that they seem to hate "liberal" Americans as much as their alleged "liberals" hate America. if Americans need to be murdered to be taught a lesson, then its for the greater good i guess.. thats the penalty for disagreement.

the common denominator between all these guys is they refuse to consider the 'malevolent government' theory. did any Americans benefit from the 9/11 attacks? if so, could they have had for-knowledge, and did they exhibit a motive or intent? the Pentagon and White House definitely are suspect, because the neocons did have an established prior 'agenda'. considering the holes in the official 9/11 story, and the subsequent aftermath with the IRaqi occupation, these are things everyone should consider. but you first have to conceive that criminals exist, in America, even in high places


Quote:

I asked you several times, and I'm gonna ask you again WHAT you think the threat really is and how you project it taking place. You never did answer my questions, and I'm thinking it's because you feel that a calm conversation is somehow subversive.


id like to hear his opinion as well.. i suspect it has to do with the individual criminal attacks that took place on 9.11, and a religious conflict with Muslims.. but from there i personally wouldnt know how to justify invading and attacking the whole middle east, over(in reality) what were a couple of(albeit atrocious)individual criminal acts. thats really where their logic IMO becomes irrational

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Saturday, August 11, 2007 9:09 AM

SKYWALKEN


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
ter·ror·ism (ter-uh-riz-uhm)
–noun 1. the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, esp. for political purposes.

Sounds a whole lot like the TSA, DHS, FBI, CIA and related goons to me...



Actually it sounds a whole lot like supporters of abortion on demand. And by the way, it's the Roe v. Wade decision that has done more damage to America than Osama ever could. Almost 50 million babies murdered so far.

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Saturday, August 11, 2007 10:38 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Well looks like they missed a couple they shouldn't have, Sky...

That's a topic I flat will not discuss here, other than to flatly state that that it's better to be murdered, than tortured, abandoned, neglected and then die one way or another - I've seen firsthand where these unwanted kids wind up if there's no one rich or politically connected enough to grind their way through the immense expense and red tape that makes the adoption process a lame fucking joke, and if there is a hell, it's right there, not in some dreamers afterlife.

You wanna call me pro-death, you go right ahead and do that, but be damned if imma discuss the matter in any more detail than that, and frankly, as far as I am concerned, if it ain't YOUR kid, and you ain't a chick, shut the fuck up.

Y'all only give a shit about em till they pop out, and then you couldn't care less when they wind up in a dumpster choking on their own umbilical, long as it prevents abortion, sure.

Screw you, buddy.

-Frem

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Saturday, August 11, 2007 10:52 AM

LEADB


I personally would like to see a world where not a single woman has an elective abortion.

Strong advocate of abstinence, free or low cost birth control, support of single mothers, support of pregnant girls who would like to put the baby up for adoption but 'can't' for some reason, all sorts of solutions out there...

but push comes to shove, I have to believe it makes most sense to leave elective abortion on the table.

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Saturday, August 11, 2007 10:53 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Wow. Just when I thought I was beginning to understand Rap, the fella reminds me he's in a parallel universe.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.



How so ? We have the fake little indian, Ward Churchill, who called the victims in the WTC " little Eichmanns". We had Bill Maher express how much courage the terrorist must have had to fly the planes into the WTC..... I just think that next time, those on the Left will be cheering WHILE the attacks are going on, instead of waiting a while before telling us how they really think.

Please, tell me where I'm wrong.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Saturday, August 11, 2007 11:08 AM

OLDENGLANDDRY


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:



Please, tell me where I'm wrong.

"





That happens pretty much on a daily basis but does'nt penetrate, so why should it now?

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Saturday, August 11, 2007 11:46 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by oldenglanddry:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:


Please, tell me where I'm wrong.

"



That happens pretty much on a daily basis but does'nt penetrate, so why should it now?



Saying " you're wrong" and showing some one where they are wrong are entirely 2 different things. Maybe one day you'll discover this and post something worthwhile.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Saturday, August 11, 2007 3:36 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

How so ? We have the fake little indian, Ward Churchill, who called the victims in the WTC " little Eichmanns". We had Bill Maher express how much courage the terrorist must have had to fly the planes into the WTC..... I just think that next time, those on the Left will be cheering WHILE the attacks are going on, instead of waiting a while before telling us how they really think.

Please, tell me where I'm wrong.

You don't KNOW??? I'll give you a night to think on it, then get back with you tomorrow.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Saturday, August 11, 2007 3:39 PM

SIMONWHO


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Wow. Just when I thought I was beginning to understand Rap, the fella reminds me he's in a parallel universe.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.



How so ? We have the fake little indian, Ward Churchill, who called the victims in the WTC " little Eichmanns". We had Bill Maher express how much courage the terrorist must have had to fly the planes into the WTC..... I just think that next time, those on the Left will be cheering WHILE the attacks are going on, instead of waiting a while before telling us how they really think.

Please, tell me where I'm wrong.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "



Well, as far as Bill Maher goes, this is his actual quote:

“We have been the cowards, lobbing cruise missiles from 2,000 miles away, that’s cowardly. Staying in the airplane when it hits the building, say what you want about it, that’s not cowardly.”

Which is certainly not what you said.

And how is Ward Churchill's comment about the amoral nature of the technocrats supporting the terrorists? Surely you're not as simple minded as Bush and believe that "My enemy's enemy is my friend"?

Oh, and also you're wrong in your whole political, social and above all Christian philosophy. Jesus hates you and you stand for.

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Saturday, August 11, 2007 5:25 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by SimonWho:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Wow. Just when I thought I was beginning to understand Rap, the fella reminds me he's in a parallel universe.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.



How so ? We have the fake little indian, Ward Churchill, who called the victims in the WTC " little Eichmanns". We had Bill Maher express how much courage the terrorist must have had to fly the planes into the WTC..... I just think that next time, those on the Left will be cheering WHILE the attacks are going on, instead of waiting a while before telling us how they really think.

Please, tell me where I'm wrong.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "



Well, as far as Bill Maher goes, this is his actual quote:

“We have been the cowards, lobbing cruise missiles from 2,000 miles away, that’s cowardly. Staying in the airplane when it hits the building, say what you want about it, that’s not cowardly.”

Which is certainly not what you said.



Not verbatim, but praising them for not being cowardly equals to calling them brave in my book. Slitting the throat of a flight attendent, that's cowardly. Doing the same to a pilot and co-pilot strapped into their seats is cowardly. They were fanatical, delusional, but also cowardly. Mahar , and those who agree w/ him can go suck a red hot exhaust pipe, for all I care.

Quote:



And how is Ward Churchill's comment about the amoral nature of the technocrats supporting the terrorists? Surely you're not as simple minded as Bush and believe that "My enemy's enemy is my friend"?

The fake little Indian made no such comment, but said that the victims in the WTC towers were ' little Eichmanns '. Amoral technocrats? They were fathers, mothers, sons and daughters. They were friends and siblings who didn't do a damn thing to deserve dying as they did. Screw Ward Churchill.

Quote:


Oh, and also you're wrong in your whole political, social and above all Christian philosophy. Jesus hates you and you stand for.



I'm not wrong, and Jesus is still dead. ( Unless you mean the guy who cuts the lawn every week, then I don't really care what he thinks ) Of all the gross mistakes you made, thinking I was Christian is the funniest, though not the least.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Sunday, August 12, 2007 2:14 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


So Rap, have you figured out what you did wrong in both threads?



---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Sunday, August 12, 2007 4:49 AM

LEADB


"What kind of a sick bastard would write such a thing?

A bastard so sick of how splintered we are politically - thanks mainly to our ineptitude in Iraq - that we have forgotten who the enemy is."

I too am sick of how splintered we are politically. The above has proved we are without question.

Frankly, I don't think another 9/11 would bring us back together. The divisions are growing deeper by day. If another occurred, I believe we would immediately leap at each others throats to fight over silly things, like 'those damn liberals cheered the terrorists in' or 'those dang rightwingers spawned the "new generation" of terrorists with their illegal war in Iraq'.

What would bring us back together? Not sure. I'd hope that intelligent dialog; where people -strive- to understand what the 'other side is saying', rather than to pull quotes out of context to use as a lash against the 'other side'.

Folks, the 'other side' is the terrorists. That seems to be forgotten.


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Sunday, August 12, 2007 4:52 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
So Rap, have you figured out what you did wrong in both threads?




Told the truth.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Sunday, August 12, 2007 5:43 AM

ALLIETHORN7


Forgive me if I'm restating what other folks have said here- reading over this thread was too depressing to read past the first ten or so posts.
"Another 9/11 would bring us together", huh?
True. America is, fundementally, a reactionary society- we always try to play the good guy in an argument, being the first to take the punch before we hit back.
Would it be a good thing? Was two thousand+ people burning/suffocating/being crushed to death a good thing in the first place? Or the thousands now who are dying sue to the shit kicked up in the air?
Sad thing is, this dude, whoever he is, struck a chord. America is, by and large, always splintered between amazingly different groups. We are a piecemeal country of immigrants. Each and every one of us, besides a woefully small population of Natives, is an immigrant, son of an immigrant, son of a son of an immigrant... the list goes on. This creates a rather interesting divide- we are torn between the nationality of being American and whatever else Nationalities we have in us (I know I have at least six, probably more).
Add to that little tidbit that we have a superiority complex (OR "Little Brother" complex, if you will) with the rest of the world, stemming from our relativly infantile age, a measly two hundred thirty odd years; AND we love to see the good guy win.
As one meself (An American), I know; we simply can NOT accept that bad things can happen to good people. It's almost laughable at how much faith we have that, someway, somehow, the 'Good Guy' will win. Feh.
We forget, however, that, when one thrws polotics into the mix, there ceases to be a 'Good Guy' or 'Bad Guy'. They simply exist to sow distrust and taxes among an unsuspecting populous.
So, in the end, America really does NEED something to galvanize it- a swift kick in the ass when we're not looking. We need someone to think of as a 'Bad Guy' , as opposed to us, the 'Good Guy'.
We used to be that, after 9/11. But War spares none- and neither does the media.

-Danny

We move for all mankind,
A million miles from everything we've ever know...
We're on their hearts and minds,
A million heads are bowed to bring us safely home...
Hemmed in by emptiness,
A million ways that everything could be undone...

THRICE RULES!!!!!!!!!
My Master went to the Moon in a Rocket of Flamin' Cheese!
I LIKE CHEESE!!!
http://www.myspace.com/otherrandomdude

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Sunday, August 12, 2007 6:16 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

So Rap, have you figured out what you did wrong in both threads? -Signy

Told the truth- Auraptor

Sigh. Can you stop being so friggin' defensive long enough to have a decent discussion? Anyway, I WISH you'd told the truth.

In this thread you took two examples - Churchill and Maher- and basically used them as examples of the entire "liberal" movement. So you're saying that HK, Leadb, Chrisisall and many of the other non-right-wingers in this thread would CHEER about another 9-11? What an insult. What a f*cking insult. And so false. If anything, judging by the posted article and the responses on this board, I would put THAT shoe on the right foot.

In the other thread, you said that a Kerry/ Gore Presidency "would have been worse" than Bush's in terms of expanding government. But, you know the TRUTH is that the last example of a Dem President actually SHRANK government. And once again you're not arguing reality, you're only arguing about some vision in your head. And sadly, it's not even YOUR vision.

You know, I value people tremendously who can see "the truth". It means finding and neutralizing our prejudices, setting aside the way we think things should be.. or the way we want them to be... or are afraid they might be... and being quiet enough inside to let the evidence speak to us in its own voice. Letting the world tell us about itself even if the message is initially unintepretable, or frightening, or frustrating, or even joyful.

But you.... you try to hammer everything into the shape you've been told. You wallow in propaganda, and you spray it all over reality. Try to be still. Stop yelling so loud.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Sunday, August 12, 2007 6:39 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Sig...the silly assertion that it'll take another attack to unify this country was what started this thread. I suggested that not only would it NOT unify this country, that 'some' Left wingers would likely cheer on such an attack. As proof, I offered Churchill and Maher as examples where, after the first attack, Libs found ways to excuse and/ or praised the terrorist.

I wasn't speaking of ALL the Lefties, but merely giving a sample of how 'some' had already reacted. Don't get pissed at me, get pissed at the Ward Churchills and Bill Maher's of the world. No mistake made on my part. Sorry.


You base your view on what Gore or Kerry would do on what Clinton DID. They aren't Clinton, and looking at what their plans were for the country, it's a valid suggestion that they'd increase the size of Gov't. Increased gas taxes, increased income taxes.....all for what ? Raising revenue ? Cutting taxes showed a better way, but no. Gore and Kerry both want MORE control of our economy to come under the umbrella of the Gov't. No thank you.


People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Sunday, August 12, 2007 6:41 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Allie- Are you saying is that we should openly hope for what Hitler created covertly: a convenient enemy to unite us? Don't you find that a bit scary- that we would potentially value being "united" over being moral and just?

FWIW, IMHO except for blacks who have not yet been fully integrated and STILL face a lot of prejudice, first/second generation immigrants, and minorities of some religions, I don't see "ethnic heritage" as a major cause of our divisiveness. Also, division of opinion is not necessarily a bad thing. ALL nations contain diverse views.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Sunday, August 12, 2007 6:53 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Sig...the silly assertion that it'll take another attack to unify this country was what started this thread. I suggested that not only would it NOT unify this country, that 'some' Left wingers would likely cheer on such an attack. As proof, I offered Churchill and Maher as examples where, after the first attack, Libs found ways to excuse and/ or praised the terrorist. I wasn't speaking of ALL the Lefties, but merely giving a sample of how 'some' had already reacted. Don't get pissed at me, get pissed at the Ward Churchills and Bill Maher's of the world. No mistake made on my part. Sorry.
Auraptor, you friggin' rhetorical retard*! What you SAID was
Quote:

I'd think the Left wing would be cheering for the terrorist next time.
Not "some of the left wing" or "the far left end of the Liberal mveoment" but THE Left wing. You made exactly the same mistake in the "Chiquita banana" thread
Quote:

What you said was It is "not the job of the office of the President to keep us safe from acts of nature." You DIDN'T say "it is not the job of the office of the President to be the PRIMARY responder". Just simply ""not the job"... Next time, try not making such broad-brush statements.
When will you ever learn???? But your rhetorical carelessness is reflective of your mental carelesness: In your broad-brush approach you slop the same friggin color on everything, regardless of what it really is.
Quote:

You base your view on what Gore or Kerry would do on what Clinton DID. They aren't Clinton, and looking at what their plans were for the country, it's a valid suggestion that they'd increase the size of Gov't. Increased gas taxes, increased income taxes.....all for what ? Raising revenue ? Cutting taxes showed a better way, but no. Gore and Kerry both want MORE control of our economy to come under the umbrella of the Gov't. No thank you.
You seem to forget that reducing the size of government was one of Al Gore's tasks nas VP and that's exactly what he did. I appreciate a reply in the Chiquita thread.



*With apologies to the retarded who really don't deserve this comparison.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Sunday, August 12, 2007 6:58 AM

CHRISISALL


The politicos are eroding our civil rights in the name of national security, funds are being funneled into war when they should go towards education to keep us competative in the world market, and the infrastructure which is beginning to buckle...even the weather is turning against us No need for another 9-11; the first one did more than enough. International terrorists need only sit back and watch America at this point. They've done their job, fear is how our house of cards will fall. Hope we can turn this around....

Chrisisall

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Sunday, August 12, 2007 7:15 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


The only way to bring this nation together is to get to the bottom of what's driving us dysfunctionally apart. (I really don't think we need complete uniformity of opinion.) And what I see is corruption, lies, greed, and sheer mental pathology at the highest levels. Not JUST in politics- altho the corruption is getting so bad the smell must be in the ozone layer by now- but in business as well. How can we come together under a system that's designed to drive us all apart? When we are all set against each other for our very survival? Heck, we kick "fellow Americans" into the gutter every day. And it doesn't seem to matter if we rape the land ahead of future "Americans". Rule of law??? HAHAHAH! What a joke! So WTF does it mean to be "an American"? That, and $1.25-$9.00 will get you a cup of coffee. No wonder we can't see eye to eye on anything; we're all too busy trying to fuck each other over.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Sunday, August 12, 2007 7:54 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Simple, quit lettin em get away with it.

Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery?

Nobody really wants a fight, but when you are dealing with an established elite of amoral sociopaths, no appeal to conscience, morals or even the law is gonna do ya any good.

We have left but one recourse against it, but the horrific price and risks of such a thing are so awful they are almost beyond reason to even contemplate, and thus people generally choose to suffer under the yoke - till it becomes utterly unbearable.

Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

We've been down this road before, but instead of finishing the job on those damn Tory bastards, we accepted them as Federalists and let them do it to us from inside after throwing off King George.

In over 230 years, they've been little more than a countless and continual misery to everything that makes America what it is, and every truce and reconciliation with them brings us further and closer to the brink, every new "scare" just shows clearer the scorn with which they hold liberty and freedom, and so I say, it's time to give em what they really deserve, and is long overdue in the payment.

A short drop and a sudden stop.


-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Sunday, August 12, 2007 8:19 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


ALL IT TAKES IS AN INTELLIGENT, MASSIVE SHIFT IN VOTING PATTERNS. Something that even Diebold can't cover up. But that would require a whole paradigm shift, and THAT seems to be the hardest thing of all. People willingly shackle themslves for the right to get fucked over. How sad is that?

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Sunday, August 12, 2007 9:35 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
ALL IT TAKES IS AN INTELLIGENT, MASSIVE SHIFT IN VOTING PATTERNS. Something that even Diebold can't cover up. But that would require a whole paradigm shift, and THAT seems to be the hardest thing of all. People willingly shackle themslves for the right to get fucked over. How sad is that?




You mean shackle themselves to the womb to tomb mentality of the LEFT. That IS fucking sad.

Freedom will save us from the Left. Nothing less.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Sunday, August 12, 2007 9:52 AM

LEADB


Hey Frem; got your PM. I'd like to discuss more 'off line', but I gather your FFF registered email is shot... if you PM me an email I promise to 'behave well' with it.
Lead.B

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Sunday, August 12, 2007 9:53 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.



dbl

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Sunday, August 12, 2007 9:54 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I wasn't proposing a womb-totomb nanny state, Auraptor. Once again you're reacting to the visions in your head and not what's in front of you. If you could just stop yelling so loud mebbe you'd hear what others are saying.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Sunday, August 12, 2007 10:12 AM

LEADB


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
You mean shackle themselves to the womb to tomb mentality of the LEFT. That IS fucking sad.

Freedom will save us from the Left. Nothing less.

C'mmon Rap. Even I've read enough of Sig's stuff to know he's not wanting the left. He's more of a 'throw the bums out' kinda guy.

The question is, what to take the place of the 'old' left and right. Ron Paul is of interest, despite being a Republican he's clearly not a classic 'Right winger'. A few others. How about some 'different' thinking here? Anything we can even approach agreement on?

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Sunday, August 12, 2007 10:21 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by leadb:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
You mean shackle themselves to the womb to tomb mentality of the LEFT. That IS fucking sad.

Freedom will save us from the Left. Nothing less.

C'mmon Rap. Even I've read enough of Sig's stuff to know he's not wanting the left. He's more of a 'throw the bums out' kinda guy.

The question is, what to take the place of the 'old' left and right. Ron Paul is of interest, despite being a Republican he's clearly not a classic 'Right winger'. A few others. How about some 'different' thinking here? Anything we can even approach agreement on?



The Left is , by definition, womb to tomb Nanny state. Might not have been always, but that's what it is now. And I'm sure as hell not up for 'different' simply to be different. It has to have some substance, some MEANING. I'm all for the Fair Tax, but despite Ron Paul being for it, he's a nut case. Might have some good points, but he's the Howie Dean for the GOP.

So, Fair Tax, or at least keep the tax cuts where they are until we get the Fair Tax.

Let's agree to start agreeing there, ok?

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Sunday, August 12, 2007 10:27 AM

RIGHTEOUS9



Ironic coming from the a representative of the party that always scoffs and jeers when we try to pay attention to what our government is doing, that you would call liberals the party of the nanny state.

You don't watch your own fucking politicians...you just listen for the talking points to tell you how to respond to allegations. You are the ones who trust too much to your government.

That isn't really the liberal mo, inspite of how often you try to label us with it. Go back to suckling on Cheney's nipple, and taking his word for it that that salty fluid is milk.

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Sunday, August 12, 2007 11:08 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Righteous9:

Ironic coming from the a representative of the party that always scoffs and jeers when we try to pay attention to what our government is doing, that you would call liberals the party of the nanny state.

You don't watch your own fucking politicians...you just listen for the talking points to tell you how to respond to allegations. You are the ones who trust too much to your government.

That isn't really the liberal mo, inspite of how often you try to label us with it. Go back to suckling on Cheney's nipple, and taking his word for it that that salty fluid is milk.



Dick Durbin called our soldiers nazis and compared gitmo to a soviet gulag. OUR party is trying to do something important, like fight Islamic terroirst. All YOU fucking want to do is rip Bush and keep the military from voting in electinos.

It is the Liberal M.O., and it pisses you off that I nailed it dead to rights. You just don't like being called out on it.

Save the sucking jokes for your buddy, Clinton. At least that's one thing didn't trust Hillary with doing.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Sunday, August 12, 2007 11:25 AM

OLDENGLANDDRY


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by oldenglanddry:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:


Please, tell me where I'm wrong.

"



That happens pretty much on a daily basis but does'nt penetrate, so why should it now?



Saying " you're wrong" and showing some one where they are wrong are entirely 2 different things. Maybe one day you'll discover this and post something worthwhile.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "




See what I mean?

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Sunday, August 12, 2007 11:28 AM

OLDENGLANDDRY


Is it me or have AURAPTOR and the rails parted company at last?

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Sunday, August 12, 2007 11:41 AM

RIGHTEOUS9


YOUR president is claiming Executive privilege on everything Auraptor. YOUR party is happy to remain blissfully ignorant of information. YOUR party doesn't want to govern, apparently, it wants to be taken care of by a daddy government. YOU want to abdicate responsibility over OUR democracy. We cannot check our politicians if we have no facts. We can't do our jobs as citizens. Apparently you are fine with that. Why do you hate our freedoms?

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