REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Iraqi WMD's non-existence still confounding some buggers!

POSTED BY: CHRISISALL
UPDATED: Friday, September 14, 2007 07:16
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Thursday, September 13, 2007 9:11 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:


the way I see it...the blame America, denigrate America, surrender with humiliation crowd of Americans fall into two categories :
Those with their heads buried in the sand...and
those with their heads buried up their asses.

And the way I see it...the blame America, denigrate America, surrender with humiliation crowd of Americans falls into one category :
Those that want to see America fall...HARD, of which I am not one.

I want America to be strong and secure, but not at the price of a potential slide into the sewers of fascism.

We want the same thing, I conjure, just differ in the accepted methods is all.

American Chrisisall

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Thursday, September 13, 2007 9:26 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
And the way I see it...the blame America, denigrate America, surrender with humiliation crowd of Americans falls into one category :
Those that want to see America fall...HARD, of which I am not one.

I want America to be strong and secure, but not at the price of a potential slide into the sewers of fascism.

We want the same thing, I conjure, just differ in the accepted methods is all.

American Chrisisall


That is excellent is all! Well said.

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Thursday, September 13, 2007 9:29 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:

blame America, denigrate America, surrender with humiliation crowd of Americans fall into two categories :
Those with their heads buried in the sand...and
those with their heads buried up their asses.
That t'aint evil pal...just my opinions is all.

So in your humble opinion America is always right. Right?


I 'aint goin' there buddy.

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Thursday, September 13, 2007 9:33 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

blame America, denigrate America, surrender with humiliation crowd of Americans fall into two categories :
Those with their heads buried in the sand...and
those with their heads buried up their asses.
That t'aint evil pal...just my opinions is all. JSSTRW

So in your humble opinion America is always right. Right? -Signy

I 'aint goin' there buddy.-JSSTRW

What, you think you haven't already BTDT?

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Thursday, September 13, 2007 9:33 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

That is excellent is all! Well said.


Wow. And here I was expecting to get yelled at...

Chrisisall

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Thursday, September 13, 2007 9:51 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:

blame America, denigrate America, surrender with humiliation crowd of Americans fall into two categories :
Those with their heads buried in the sand...and
those with their heads buried up their asses.
That t'aint evil pal...just my opinions is all. JSSTRW

So in your humble opinion America is always right. Right? -Signy

I 'aint goin' there buddy.-JSSTRW

What, you think you haven't already BTDT?

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.


I give you credit...you are determined!
I've thrown enough fuel on the fire for one day...not looking to satisfy some inner need you have to confront individuals....just go ahead and call me a neo-con troll, and move on to the next Con here ( not many left ) to grapple with.

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Thursday, September 13, 2007 11:41 AM

LEADB


Quote:

Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Quote:

Originally posted by leadb:
Gotcha. I do think this is the core of our difference. I look at much of Bush's history and conclude he is not particularly 'principled'; he does seem to be a consummate 'gamer of the system' (eg: profits mentioned in previous posts). The core trust you seem to have for Bush is not present in me, and I feel for rational reasons.

Bush demonstrates himself to be a successful businessman and you somehow find this to be a bad quality? I agree that there is a big disjoint in our respective definitions of what constitutes principled behavior, at least concerning Bush. If someone offers you profit off a failed oil company or a baseball club, would you turn it down simply because this was money based on your connections? I think that if one examines closely and fairly the negative views of Bush, often these views turn out to be more irrational then those holding them initially perceive them.

Many people who are 'successful' in business do so at the expense of others; being a 'successful' business person in the US today does not necessarily equate to being principled. Look at various discussions regarding the housing bubble (either here, or at the 'economy roars on part 2' I forget which) to get a sense of what I'm referring to.

You might be surprised at what I would walk away from on an ethical or moral basis; on one occasion I easily could have legally forced someone to fork over $10K more than I did. My lawyer kinda looked at me funny, but hell, I was paying his fees what's he going to do? ;-)

I'd be interested to know how you felt about Bush's 'service' in the National Guard to avoid the draft during the Vietnam era.

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Thursday, September 13, 2007 2:55 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Well, damn, look what happens when one has ahem work to do, unlike the local court clerk (maybe even bailiff) who likes to troll.

Keep this up on top 'hero' and I'll get back to your cupidity when I get back in town Monday or Tuesday.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Thursday, September 13, 2007 2:56 PM

VETERAN

Don't squat with your spurs on.


When was Bush ever a successful business man?

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Thursday, September 13, 2007 3:06 PM

LEADB


Quote:

Originally posted by Veteran:
When was Bush ever a successful business man?

Bush is a millionaire; and by 'conventional' definition attained his money in 'business' dealings; thus making him a successful business man in some people's opinion. That he left rubble behind and shortened funds for 'other folks' is just to show 'other folks' were not successful; but that would be 'their problem', not Bush's.

In 2004 George had an estimated net worth of around $9 million to $26 million
http://ask.yahoo.com/20040823.html

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Thursday, September 13, 2007 3:10 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

I give you credit...you are determined!
I've thrown enough fuel on the fire for one day...not looking to satisfy some inner need you have to confront individuals....just go ahead and call me a neo-con troll, and move on to the next Con here ( not many left ) to grapple with.

Oh, I've been so gentle with you. Far more than you have with others. That t'aint evil pal...just my opinions is all.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Thursday, September 13, 2007 3:28 PM

VETERAN

Don't squat with your spurs on.


Hero,

I think you're missing the point. Bush's dishonesty is beyond the "War on Terror." It's about creating an environment where "terror" pervades, and the excuse for invading our privacy, restricting our freedoms, and lying to us about these efforts is justfied because "We're at war!"

"He who sacrifices liberty for security deserves neither." - Benjamin Franklin

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Thursday, September 13, 2007 3:28 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL


Quote:

Originally posted by leadb:
Many people who are 'successful' in business do so at the expense of others; being a 'successful' business person in the US today does not necessarily equate to being principled. Look at various discussions regarding the housing bubble (either here, or at the 'economy roars on part 2' I forget which) to get a sense of what I'm referring to.

So? It doesn’t not equate to being principled either. A lot of people work hard to develop connections. It’s actually called “networking.” And if you fail to take legal advantage of your connections or you have some conviction that there’s something wrong with taking legal advantage of your connections, that’s up to you. If you’d walk away from an easy legal 10 grand for no other reason than that you have some moral issue with connections, then I might be surprised by that – in fact, I might considered that foolish.
Quote:

Originally posted by leadb:
I'd be interested to know how you felt about Bush's 'service' in the National Guard to avoid the draft during the Vietnam era.

He served his country in the Air National Guard. That’s a good thing.



Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Thursday, September 13, 2007 4:08 PM

LEADB


Yep, Finn, we have a very different view of the world.

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Thursday, September 13, 2007 7:58 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I haven't exactly got and answer from Finn about the "American values" he thinks need to be supported, or exported.

Finn?

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Friday, September 14, 2007 3:42 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Gonna make a second thread on this, so if anyone wants to continue the discussion at least it won't take 12 minutes to load.

www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=18&t=30558
---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Friday, September 14, 2007 6:08 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Veteran:
It's about creating an environment where "terror" pervades, and the excuse for invading our privacy, restricting our freedoms, and lying to us about these efforts is justfied because "We're at war!"

"He who sacrifices liberty for security deserves neither." - Benjamin Franklin



"The Constitution is not a suicide pact."- Justice Robert Jackson, Terminiello v. Chicago (1949)...referring the statements allegedly made by Abraham Linoln when defending the suspension of Habeas Corpus during the Civil War.

The basic idea is that on 9/11 we learned that we had allowed an environment where "terror" pervades to come into existence. President Bush's policies have been designed to correct that situation. You might think they are going too far...but its better to go too far and back up then not go far enough and be dead. I think Franklin would see the wisdom in that.

H

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Friday, September 14, 2007 6:46 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Hero, I'm gonna xfer your post to the new thread so it doens't take a zillion years to load.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Friday, September 14, 2007 7:16 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
The Constitution is not a suicide pact. Justice Robert Jackson


But it is to pinhead Liberals. They wish death on all of us. They would have us all have smiles on our decapitated heads, ACLU cards clenched in our teeth, as the Jihadists were raping and torturing our women folk for sport....as long as we followed the letter of every law, and this was the outcome, they would be just fine and dandy with it.
Or one of them would emerge from the smoldering embers of a dirty-bombed city with millions dead waving their Sean Penn fan club pin in triumph, along with their Bush is Hitler flag. We Won! We gave them attorneys, US citizen rights, 3 squares a day, and no profiling...we won!

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