About those investments. by Fremdfirma

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

About those investments.

POSTED BY: FREMDFIRMA
UPDATED: Friday, October 26, 2007 07:52
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VIEWED: 1534
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Wednesday, October 24, 2007 4:20 PM

As some might recall, I invest in precious stones, uncut, and I do not buy points or shares of some alleged rock supposedly in a safe somewhere, but rather buy the entire stones outright.

And here's why.
http://news.silverseek.com/TedButler/1193161018.php

Excerpt:
"Safe storage is more of an issue unique to silver than any other precious metal. While Morgan Stanley issued statements that it was storing all types of precious metals, the largest single amount was silver. It was a client’s inquiry about his 1000 oz bars that precipitated the class-action suit. Logic would dictate that this is also the case with hundreds of other worldwide financial institutions that claim to store precious metals for their clients.

I found it appalling that Morgan Stanley would claim to store silver that didn’t exist and even have the chutzpah to charge for the storage. That would appear to be a clear case of fraud. I am even more appalled that the judge in the case, or any government regulator, would look the other way. The important lesson here is not that Morgan Stanley got caught with its hand in the cookie jar, but what silver investors can learn from this episode."

As before, I warned folks about buying and storing off-site, even the most "reputable" companies will sell you empty air with a big phony smile - and just how screwed are you in case of a financial meltdown ?

Bigtime - all that money, and you have no Gold, no Silver, no Stones... just.. empty air.

If you're gonna buy precious commodities, don't part with a dime until YOU, personally, take *physical* possession of them - because if it came to it, when you came to audit, they could just move some of the little Silver they DO have into your "Vault" and then move it right back out when you leave...

Do NOT buy points or shares.
Do NOT trust them to store it.
Do NOT store off-site.

Unless it's in a safe in your basement, you essentialy own nothing, and in a financial crisis, your chances of getting that silly piece of paper honored are slim to none, and slim's saddling his horse with an eye on the horizon.

Nuff said ?

-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Wednesday, October 24, 2007 5:18 PM

LEADB

In my basement... How about a safe deposit box at my local credit union? (or bank or S&L or...) Not to pick nits, just wondered if you had some practical concerns against them.

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Thursday, October 25, 2007 2:57 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Unless it's in a safe in your basement

What kind of safe?

And what's your address?

And what are your working hours?

Do you have an alarm code or other security precautions?

As a Prosecutor I need to know these things. Sure, I "know" people who "might" put such information to "good" use. But you can trust me.

And exactly how many and what kinds of stones, coins, gold or whatever do you have in that safe?

H

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Thursday, October 25, 2007 3:19 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Yes, I do have practical concerns.

In the case of a financial crises, when the Bank, S&L or Credit Union, slams the doors in your face and locks them, what are you gonna do, storm the place ?

The FDIC, and related programs may be of use in a small crisis, but in a meltdown they quite literally do not have enough resources to cover even a minimum of obligations - and when that is triaged, you can bet the politically connected and corporations utterly needful to keeping things running are going to rate pretty far above you.

In essence, just when you most NEED your stuff, you stand the least chance of ever getting it back, and under FEMA and related programs, they'll more or less nationalise it and flat outright take it.

If you ever get anything back, it'll be years later at pennies on the dollar.

This is a lesson learned the hard way by me and many others, when Old Court went belly up, and the FSLIC did not have enough resources to cover even a tenth part of their obligations and imploded.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Court_Savings_and_Loans
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FSLIC
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savings_and_Loan_crisis

That was $1200.00USD worth of a very painful lesson for me and substantially contributed to me never being able to afford college.... and followed on by a nasty go-round with Signet Bank, who refused to hold to the terms of a contract and changed it at whim like a mob loan shark, up to and including refusing to honor the disability insurance I had been paying for six months prior to my near fatal accident.

Top that off with Flagstar selling our mortage off to Citigroup in direct violation of the original terms of the agreement (they were expressly forbidden to do *exactly* that, they could do so, but not, under any circumstances whatsoever, to Citigroup) and then Citigroup changing payment dates at random and "forgetting" to mail out statements to try and cause missed payments and initiate foreclosure on our home...
(Good LUCK assholes, since we're paid six months ahead!)

And you get a pretty clear picture of why I have no trust in financial institutions, they will be the very first to slide the knife in when things get ugly, like the mechanic who triples his estimate on sunday evening, knowing you need that car back on monday morning.

And let's not even talk about the racket that is "insurance" of any kind...

Plus, for what you pay for storage, you can afford to install a decent security system and a pretty solid safe, with the added assurance of knowing damn well you have access to it when you need it.

And watching recent events, like the mess with Netbank....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NetBank
Doesn't make me happy, *especially* THIS part.

"NetBank also encountered several complaints due to NetBank's freezing customer accounts for security reasons. When flagged, the customers were required to send several forms of identification to NetBank before the account would become unfrozen. It is uncertain if the requirements were due to internal NetBank policies or the requirements imposed by the USA Patriot Act"

Take that to it's natural conclusion in a true full on financial crisis, and your chances of actually being able to phsyically retrieve are dead bang zilch.

Your only true assurance is to be practically sitting on top of it (my ex calls me the Old Dragon for this) if you want access to it when you truly and dearly need it.

-Frem
PS. Piss off Zero, there's a reason why I use an assumed name and offer only the vaguest of information here - and folks like you, now that your true nature is showing, are a good part of why.
(See Also: Roy Miro, Dean Koontz)

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Thursday, October 25, 2007 4:28 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

I wonder if it would be better to xfer long-term investments to a Swiss bank?

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Thursday, October 25, 2007 4:53 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
PS. Piss off Zero, there's a reason why I use an assumed name and offer only the vaguest of information here - and folks like you, now that your true nature is showing, are a good part of why.

An assumed name? That's pretty dishonost of you. How can we assume anything else about you is true? I'd never use an assumed name.

Note to self...don't google address on "Fremdfirma".

H

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Thursday, October 25, 2007 7:17 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Swiss bank accounts:

http://swiss-bank-accounts.com/e/index.html

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Thursday, October 25, 2007 7:36 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Swiss bank accounts:

Swiss cheese comes with holes in it. I'd be careful about their banks. I'm just sayin...

H

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Thursday, October 25, 2007 7:49 AM

SCHOOLBOYSWINK

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Yes, I do have practical concerns.

This is a lesson learned the hard way by me and many others, when Old Court went belly up, and the FSLIC did not have enough resources to cover even a tenth part of their obligations and imploded.

That was $1200.00USD worth of a very painful lesson for me and substantially contributed to me never being able to afford college.... and followed on by a nasty go-round with Signet Bank, who refused to hold to the terms of a contract and changed it at whim like a mob loan shark, up to and including refusing to honor the disability insurance I had been paying for six months prior to my near fatal accident.

Top that off with Flagstar selling our mortage off to Citigroup in direct violation of the original terms of the agreement (they were expressly forbidden to do *exactly* that, they could do so, but not, under any circumstances whatsoever, to Citigroup) and then Citigroup changing payment dates at random and "forgetting" to mail out statements to try and cause missed payments and initiate foreclosure on our home...
(Good LUCK assholes, since we're paid six months ahead!)

(my ex calls me the Old Dragon for this) if you want access to it when you truly and dearly need it.

there's a reason why I use an assumed name and offer only the vaguest of information here

Vaguest of information? I have no computer skills to speak of, but it seems to me with all the information that is available on company databases, most of which are networked to something with an "always on" 'net connection, that any hacker with half a brain and a compuer manufactured some time after 1997 could probably pinpoint almost exactly who you are based on the information you provided in this very post. Now, that's probably true of most people who post in forums, but what prevents ID thieves and suchlike from troubling with it is that most of us are not worth the effort. (Like myself, for example, who am far enough away from the financial ability to invest in precious metals or stones that this thread was only minimally interesting to me.) In your particular case, however, you have also within the same thread mentioned that you have a safe in your home containing precious stones and/or metals, and that might catch some folks' attention. Remember, you have to be a member to post here, but ANYBODY can read here (and even signing up only takes an email address).

You can do what you want, but if you are the kind of person who is worried about I.D. theft and suchlike, and you seem like the sort of person who is, then unless everything in your above quote was a lie, you need to be more careful with you personal information, methinks. And, if you aren't worried about I.D. theft, then the way you throw facts about yourself around, you probably should be.

I realize this will probably tick you off, but I'm not saying it to be a jerk, I'm trying to caution you against potentially dangerous practices. I'm not going to run down everything you just disclosed about yourself, but if you are under the impression that the kind of info you just shared is "vague," then I must offer the counterpoint that there is enough information there to give any 'net predator-type a healthy head-start into knowing exactly who you are and anything else about you he or she wants to know. I hope you'll take this to heart, for your own sake.

"When you can't do somethin' smart, do somethin' right!" -Jayne Cobb quotes Shepherd Book

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Thursday, October 25, 2007 8:28 AM

FREMDFIRMA

The smoke and mirrors goes deeper than that, kid, it'd take a miracle of purpose to link all that up to a specific actual person, I laid the groundwork for the smoke and mirrors defense long before indentity theft ever became commonplace, simply because I saw this whole mess coming the instant the FBI started drooling over SORM-II.

And even if one did start digging in the corp databases, they'd find that those wells were poisoned long before by flooding with misinformation prior to security conscious people doing it as an active defense and the companies enacting measures against it.

Not to mention the manner in which most of them would dig would trip alert flags, in the same fashion that "Target X is short of water" hosed the japanese fleet at midway.

Besides, to steal from me would require getting out of that nice comfy chair and going into the real world, too damn much effort for em, since the take would obviously suck as I work a subsistence level job in the first place.

No car thief worth a damn would bother with a beat up car 15 years old with a paranoid alarm system when it's sittin in a lot full of late models without one, and the same principle applies here.

-F

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Thursday, October 25, 2007 11:56 AM

LEADB

Thanks. I suspect that eventually, one will be able to get to one's safe deposit box; but you makes some valid points.

As far as FDIC, yeh... well, don't worry; they will 'make the payments'. Never will a dime be lost. I mean, push comes to shove, they will print more. Now, will you be able to buy anything with that $1000 bill... different problem.

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Thursday, October 25, 2007 12:20 PM

FREDGIBLET

Quote:
Originally posted by leadb:
Now, will you be able to buy anything with that $1000 bill... different problem.

Have you read Snow Crash? At one point one of the characters gets laughed at for trying to buy drugs with a bunch of million dollar bills...because they were too small.

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Friday, October 26, 2007 12:56 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Thought about this a bit.

You know though, if you're going to go that route, mentally - why post at all, ever ?

I mean, even if one takes solid precautions, there's a risk like that anywhere on the net, look at how many folks shell out such data to Myspace or Facebook, which I sure as hell don't.

But really, why live your entire life in fear ?
Speakin of which....

While others may be well meaning, Zero isn't - he's playing little lawyer mindgames, if I say it's bogus, then he gets to dismiss all my royal thrashings of him, and if I stand behind it, he gets to offer threats, vague or otherwise, some of which have been pretty blatant.

Like any terrorist or other bully, he wants folk to be afraid, because that fear gives them control - and if I refuse to be cowed by religious extremists, militias and homegrown nutburgers like Krar or McVeigh.. damned sure I'll not be cowed by a pissant like him.

Look, life has risks, freedom has risks, and what's the alternative - hide under a rock somewhere in the boonies and never associate or communicate with anyone ?

I find that ludicrous, to be blunt, that route leads to a rubber room and soft crayons "for our own good", cause when it comes right down to it, freedom is unsafe.

Well that's just too bad, cause I ain't handing it back even if it is.

-F

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Friday, October 26, 2007 3:25 AM

BIGDAMNNOBODY

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
While others may be well meaning, Zero isn't - he's playing little lawyer mindgames, if I say it's bogus, then he gets to dismiss all my royal thrashings of him, and if I stand behind it, he gets to offer threats, vague or otherwise, some of which have been pretty blatant.

Threats??? Did the present administration steal your sense of humor as well?

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Friday, October 26, 2007 7:40 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Hero's a bully and a creep who thinks he's god's gift to righteousness. The guy lies to himself morning, noon, and night about his motivations and drives. Between the smarm and the poison he's pretty hard to stomach.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Friday, October 26, 2007 7:52 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

I don't believe he thinks he's god's gift to righteousness. He just plays the role 'cause he's manipulative and thinks he's so superior no one can grasp what he's about ...

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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