REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Damn! Democracy DOES work!

POSTED BY: GEEZER
UPDATED: Tuesday, December 4, 2007 06:21
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 869
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Monday, December 3, 2007 3:32 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Chavez defeated over reform vote

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez has narrowly lost a referendum on controversial constitutional changes.
Voters rejected the raft of reforms by a margin of 51% to 49%, the chief of the National Electoral Council said.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7124313.stm



"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Monday, December 3, 2007 3:37 AM

SERGEANTX


How do you know?

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Monday, December 3, 2007 4:58 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Good for Venezuela. But I sure hope they didn't use Diebold voting machines!

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Monday, December 3, 2007 4:15 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Now to see if he enacts his desired changes anyway...

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Monday, December 3, 2007 5:23 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Now to see if he enacts his desired changes anyway...



That's when the Second Amendment, or its analogue, comes into play.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Tuesday, December 4, 2007 2:50 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Now to see if he enacts his desired changes anyway...


Oh you can bank on that!
Chavez locked up political opponents
Chavez shut down opposition newspapers
Chavez shut down opposition TV
He's grabbed expanded powers illegally using his thugs to arrest & intimidate all democratic oppostition in an attempt to tip all the scales in his favor, yet still barely lost on this one constitutional issue. He will simply declare some imagined emergency and stay in power. He will never relinquish his power.
Somehow, in the eyes of Hollywood Liberals that makes him a admired popular leader...oh wait!...it's wasn't that stuff.....it was his stroking of Iran's Achmdinajhad's schvance so energetically and so gleefully that really ingratiated him to the America-hating Left.

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Tuesday, December 4, 2007 3:01 AM

HIXIE129


Power to the people

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Tuesday, December 4, 2007 4:38 AM

SERGEANTX


Quote:

Originally posted by SergeantX:
How do you know?



This is where someone is supposed to say "What do you mean?

Well, I'll tell you ...

My point had to do with the title of the thread. I'm as happy as the rest of you that the people of Venezuela seem to have made a good call. But I'm concerned by the attitude that we sometimes have where we judge the quality of democratic rule by the wisdom of the results. For instance, would we be celebrating the success of democracy if the vote had gone the other way?

This is the issue that is front and center in Iraq right now. Something tells me that if the new government of Iraq held a vote and decided to kick the U.S. out of their country, we wouldn't exactly be hailing it as a victory for 'democracy'.

(For the record, I'm not picking on you Geezer. I'm assuming that what you actually meant was "Democracy sometimes produces worthy results", which is definitely worth celebrating. The wording just reminded me of this issue.)

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Tuesday, December 4, 2007 6:21 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Originally posted by SergeantX:
Quote:

Originally posted by SergeantX:
How do you know?



This is where someone is supposed to say "What do you mean?

Well, I'll tell you ...

My point had to do with the title of the thread. I'm as happy as the rest of you that the people of Venezuela seem to have made a good call. But I'm concerned by the attitude that we sometimes have where we judge the quality of democratic rule by the wisdom of the results. For instance, would we be celebrating the success of democracy if the vote had gone the other way?

This is the issue that is front and center in Iraq right now. Something tells me that if the new government of Iraq held a vote and decided to kick the U.S. out of their country, we wouldn't exactly be hailing it as a victory for 'democracy'.

(For the record, I'm not picking on you Geezer. I'm assuming that what you actually meant was "Democracy sometimes produces worthy results", which is definitely worth celebrating. The wording just reminded me of this issue.)

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock



SergeantX,

I'm shocked. Surely you understand that a democracy is only valid if it produces results that the American people agree with? ;-)

Actually, I think the implication was that the leader of the country having this particular vote was suspected of interfering with the democratic process to the degree that the people's voice would not be heard at all.

A negative result for the leader proves that IF there was tampering with the voting process by the president, it clearly was not sufficient to cancel out the will of the people. This is because he clearly wouldn't tamper with results to produce a negative result.

You are right, however, that a positive result would have proved nothing (maybe the people want him to be ceasar) but that we would have interpreted it as a failure of the democratic process (he clearly tampered with the vote.)

--Anthony



"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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