REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Yesterday...

POSTED BY: HERO
UPDATED: Sunday, December 10, 2017 00:35
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 1753
PAGE 1 of 1

Friday, December 7, 2007 6:43 AM

HERO


Ships at Pearl Harbor, 0800 7 December, 1941:

Battleships (BB) Pennsylvania (BB-38) (in drydock)
# Arizona (BB-39)
Nevada (BB-36)
# Oklahoma (BB-37)
Tennessee (BB-43)
# California (BB-44)
Maryland (BB-46)
# West Virginia (BB-48)

Heavy Cruisers (CA) New Orleans (CA-32)
San Francisco (CA-38)

Light Cruisers (CL) Raleigh (CL-7)
Detroit (CL-8)
Phoenix (CL-46)
Honolulu (CL-48)
St. Louis (CL-49)
Helena (CL-50

Destroyers (DD) Allen (DD-66)
Schley (DD-103)
Chew (DD-106)
* Ward (DD-139) (patrolling Channel entrance to
Pearl Harbor)
Dewey (DD-349)
Farragut (DD-348)
Hull (DD-350)
MacDonough (DD-351)
Worden (DD-352)
Dale (DD-353)
Monaghan (DD-354)
Aylwin (DD-355)
Selfridge (DD-357)
Phelps (DD-360)
Cummings (DD-365)
Reid (DD-369)
Case (DD-370)
Conyngham (DD-371)
Cassin (DD-372) (in drydock)
Shaw (DD-373) (in floating drydock)
Tucker (DD-374)
Downes (DD-375) (in drydock)
Bagley (DD-386)
Blue (DD-387)
Helm (DD-388)
Mugford (DD-389)
Ralph Talbot (DD-390)
Henley (DD-391)
Patterson (DD-392)
Jarvis (DD-393)

Submarines (SS) Narwhal (SS-167)
Dolphin (SS-169)
Cachalot (SS-170)
Tautog (SS-199)

Minelayer (CM) # Oglala (CM-4)

Minesweeper (AM) Turkey (AM-13)
Bobolink (AM-20)
Rail (AM-26)
Tern (AM-31)
Grebe (AM-43)
Vireo (AM-52)

Coastal Minesweeper (Amc)
Cockatoo (Amc-8)
Crossbill (Amc-9)
Condor (Amc-14)
Reedbird (Amc-30)

Destroyer Minelayer (DM)
Gamble (DM-15)
Ramsay (DM-16)
Montgomery (DM-17)
Breese (DM-18)
Tracy (DM-19)
Preble (DM-20)
Sicard (DM-21)
Pruitt (DM-22)

Destroyer Minesweeper (DMS)
Zane (DMS-14)
Wasmuth (DMS-15)
Trever (DMS-16)
Perry (DMS-17)

Patrol Gunboat (PG) Sacramento (PG-19)

Destroyer Tender (AD) Dobbin (AD-3)
Whitney (AD-4)

Seaplane Tender (AV) Curtiss (AV-4)
Tangier (AV-8)

Small Seaplane Tender (AVP)
Avocet (AVP-4)
Swan (AVP-7) (on marine railway
dock)

Seaplane Tender, Destroyer (AVD)
Hulbert (AVD-6)
Thornton (AVD-11)

Ammunition Ship (AE) Pyro (AE-1)

Oiler (AO) Ramapo (AO-12)
Neosho (AO-23)

Repair Ship (AR) Medusa (AR-1)
Vestal (AR-4)
Rigel (AR-11)

Submarine Tender (AS) Pelias (AS-14)

Submarine Rescue Ship (ASR) Widgeon (ASR-1)

Hospital Ship (AH) Solace (AH-5)

Cargo Ship (AK) * Vega (AK-17) (at Honolulu)

Stores Issue Ship (AKS) Castor (AKS-1)
* Antares (AKS-3) (at Pearl Harbor entrance)

Ocean Tug (AT) Ontario (AT-13)
Sunnadin (AT-28)
* Keosanqua (AT-38) (at Pearl Harbor entrance)
* Navajo (AT-64) (12 miles outside Pearl Harbor entrance)

Miscellaneous Auxiliary (AG)
# Utah (AG-16)
Argonne (AG-31)
Sumner (AG-32)



NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, December 7, 2007 6:44 AM

HERO


DAMAGES SUSTAINED BY SHIPS AS
A RESULT OF THE JAPANESE RAID,
DECEMBER 7, 1941.

(a) BATTLESHIPS

Arizona sank at her berth as a result of one or more aircraft torpedoes and about eight heavy bomb hits. One of the bomb hits (estimated as 2,000 pounds) exploded the forward magazines. The ship is considered to be a total wreck except for material which can be salvaged and reassigned. A considerable amount of ordnance material has already been removed, and work is underway in removing the 12-inch guns from turrets three and four.

California sank at her berth as a result of hits by two aircraft torpedoes and one or more near bomb misses. Also received one large bomb hit on starboard upper deck abreast of foremast, which caused a serious 5-inch powder fire. It sank gradually for about three or four days and is now resting rather solidly on a mud bottom. The quarterdeck is under about twelve feet of water, and the port side of forecastle is under about three feet of water.

Nevada struck by one or more aircraft torpedoes and by at least five bombs and two near misses. Each of the near misses caused rupturing of the hull on the port and starboard bows, respectively. One bomb hit in way of foremast caused explosion and fire damage which wrecked the vertical area extending from the second deck to the bridge. Several bomb hits wrecked the forecastle from side to side forward of No. 1 turret, and this damage extended down to the second deck. Fragments from a bomb hit amidships caused considerable local damage to the mainmast, stack, and other structure, and caused many casualties to 5-inch gun crews.

Oklahoma capsized at her berth within eight to eleven minutes after receiving three or more hits by aircraft torpedoes. the hull is 20° to 30° to being up-side down, with a considerable portion of the bottom and starboard side above water.

Pennsylvania one bomb hit in way of after 5-inch gun starboard side. The vessel was in drydock No. 1. The damage from bomb explosion was considerable but not of a vital nature, although there were a large number of casualties and one gun was put out of commission. The damage did not extend below the second deck.

Maryland two bomb hits on forecastle. One small bomb (probably 100 pounds) passed through the forecastle deck forward of the chain pipes and exploded on the maindeck causing only a small amount of damage. The second bomb, (probably 500 pounds) passed through port side of the sip about twelve feet under water and exploded in the C&R storeroom. This explosion wrecked flats and bulkheads in that area, and fragments caused numerous leaks through the sides and bottom. These leaks were temporarily patched without going into drydock.

Tennessee two bomb hits (probably 15-inch shell type). One of the bombs struck the center gun of No. 2 turret causing a large crack which necessitated replacement of the gun. This bomb exploded and did considerable local fragment damage. Another similar bomb struck the top of No. 3 turret and penetrated same in way of a riveted joint. This bomb was a dud and did no serious damage except for putting one rammer out of commission. The Tennessee suffered serious damage aft in officers' quarters due to fire resulting from the great heat caused by the oil fire starting from the Arizona. The shell plates around the stern were somewhat buckled and joints broken.

West Virginia sank at her berth as a result of four or five aircraft torpedo hits and at least two bomb hits. The vessel rests on a hard bottom with all spaces flooded up to two or three feet below the main deck. Most of the damage from torpedoes is in the midship area, which is badly wrecked both below water and above water. A large bomb passed through the foretop and the boat deck and apparently exploded near the port side on the main or second deck. This explosion caused considerable wreckage and a terrific powder and oil fire, which burned out the whole area and extended to the foremast structure up to and including the bridge. A second bomb hit the top of turret III and passed through the 6-inch top. The nature of the penetration indicated defective material. This bomb did not explode but caused damage to the slide of the left gun. Recently another torpedo hole, and parts of the torpedo, have been located aft under the counter. The steering engine room appears to be wrecked and the rudder is lying on the bottom.

(b) CRUISERS

Helena hit at frame 80 starboard side by aircraft torpedo causing the flooding of No. 1 and firerooms and the forward engineroom. The starboard engine was found to be seriously damaged. Temporary repairs to hull were completed at Pearl Harbor, T.H., and the vessel has proceeded to mare Island under two shafts to await permanent repairs.

Honolulu damaged by near miss of large bomb (probably 500 pounds) which passed through dock and exploded fifteen or twenty feet from the port side at frame 40. This explosion caused considerable damage to the hull and resulted in the flooding of storerooms and magazines in that area, and also drowned out the electric power cables of turret II. Most of the flooding resulted from rupture of a magazine flood seachest; the hull of the ship was not opened up but leaked some due to pulled joints and rivets. Permanent repairs were completed at Pearl Harbor, T.H.

Raleigh hit by one aircraft torpedo amidships on port side which flooded out the forward half of the machinery plant. The ship was also hit by one bomb (probably 500 pounds) which passed through three decks and out the ship's side, and finally exploded about fifty feet away. The damage from the explosion was not extensive, but together with the hold made in the side, caused serious flooding on the port side aft. This flooding was out of all proportion to the extent of damage and resulted from inability to close armored hatches tightly against the water head. The bomb struck only a few feet abaft the gasoline stowage. permanent repairs to the hull are being completed at Pearl Harbor, T.H. The vessel will return to Mare Island about the middle of February for permanent repairs to machinery and power leads, this being necessitated primarily by replacement of one boiler and the cast iron turbine casings of engine No. 4.

(c) DESTROYERS

Shaw hit by one bomb while docked on floating drydock; also hit by many fragments from another bomb which struck the drydock. The serious fire following bomb hits resulted in blowing up of forward magazine and heat damage to shell plating in the forward areas. The after part of the ship was not seriously damaged. The Shaw was re-docked on the same drydock on January 26, 1942, for installation of a false bow at about frame 50. The vessel will be ready to proceed to Mare Island under her own power between 01 and 15 February.

Cassin and Downes: Cassin was struck by one bomb and Downes by two (probably 500 pounds). These vessels were in drydock No. 1 ahead of the Pennsylvania. One bomb explosion aft between the two vessels apparently knocked the Cassin partly off the drydock blocking and caused her to fall over on the Downes when the dock was being flooded during the raid. This caused a serious structural failure amidships and considerable local damage in way of the bridge. The torpedo warheads in the starboard tube of the Downes were set off and blew out the maindeck and starboard side of the vessel in that area. This caused some damage to boilers and engines. A serious oil fire followed the explosion and caused extensive damage to the hull of both vessels. Fragments and explosions have caused over 200 holes in the hull of the Cassin and probably well over 400 in the hull of the Downes.

Most of the machinery of both ships has been removed for examination and re-conditioning, and it now appears that the machinery of the Cassin is 98% good and the Downes about 95% good. Permanent and temporary repairs have been made on the hull of the Cassin to permit her re-floating about February 5, and similar work is proceeding on the Downes.

At present it appears inadvisable to count on the recommissioning of these two vessels as first-line destroyers, but it is likely that repairs can be effected within two to four months which will make the vessels entirely suitable for escort vessels, thus releasing two first-line destroyers from this duty. The Navy Yard, Pearl Harbor, T.H., is working up sketch plans covering suitable arrangements for deck houses, bridge, armament, etc., adequate for an escort vessel. it is generally believed that although the hull of the vessels have been considerably weakened, they will be entirely adequate to carry the considerable reduced load in armament and other topside weights required for an escort vessel.

(d) AUXILIARY VESSELS

Oglala sunk by one aircraft torpedo which passed under the ship from the starboard side and exploded against the starboard side of the Helena. Vessel sank slowly at ten-ten dock, capsized against the dock about 11/2 hours after being struck. This vessel is probably not worth salvaging but plans are being made to remove her from the berth that she now occupies.

Curtiss struck on kingpost starboard crane by Japanese airplane out of control. This resulted in some wreckage and damage due to fire. machinery of the crane was seriously damaged and the radio antennae were put out of commission. one bomb (probably 500 pounds) struck the forward end of the hangar on the port side off the center line, exploding on the second deck. The explosion and resulting fire caused a great amount of wreckage and loss of material. Temporary repairs have been completed and permanent repairs await availability of the ship at the Navy Yard, Pearl Harbor.

Vestal struck by two bombs (probably 500 pounds). One bomb hit forward and exploded in the steel shape storage, which stopped a large part of the fragments and minimized damage considerably. The other bomb struck aft and exploded in the hold, causing a large number of fragment holes through the shell. Flooding aft caused the after part of the vessel to submerge almost to the main deck. The vessel was alongside the Arizona when the raid commenced and was beached at Aeia to prevent further sinkage. Temporary repairs have been completed during a short stay in drydock, and permanent work will be completed when a dock is available.

Utah struck by two, and possibly three, aerial torpedoes capsized at berth. Ship is within a few degrees of being exactly upside down.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, December 7, 2007 6:46 AM

HERO


BB39/A16/ U.S. S. Arizona

Receiving Barracks, Pearl Harbor, T.H.
December 13, 1941

From: The Commanding Officer.
To: The Commander-in-Chief, U.S. Pacific Fleet.

Subject: Action Report U.S.S. Arizona (BB39) December 7, 1941.

Reference: (a) CincPAC Conf. Despatch 102102 of Dec. 1941.
Enclosures: (A) Statement of Ensign Jim D. Miller, U.S. Navy.
(B) Statement of Ensign G. S. Flannigan, USNR.
(C) Statement of Ensign D. Hein, U.S. Navy.
(D) Statement of Ensign R. J. Bush, U.S. Navy.
(E) Statement of Ensign A. R. Schubert, U.S. Navy
(F) Statement of Ensign H. D. Davison, U.S. Navy.
(G) Statement of J. A. Doherty, CGM, U.S. Navy.
(H) Statement of Lt. Commander. S. G. Fuqua, U.S. Navy.


In accordance with reference (a) the following report is submitted.
Offensive measures taken:
The air raid alarm was sounded immediately when the attack was apparent. General quarters was sounded and word was passed to set material condition Zed. The antiaircraft battery and 50 caliber machine guns fired on the enemy planes as long as personnel at the guns were alive. It is believed that condition Zed was only partially set before the ship was irrepairably damaged.

Damage to enemy:
While it cannot be definitely established it is believed that machine guns from this vessel shot down two Japanese planes.

Own losses:
Personnel losses and casualties have been submitted to the Commander-in-Chief, U.S. Pacific Fleet under separate correspondence.

Damages:
The U.S.S. Arizona is a total loss except the following is believed salvageable: fifty caliber machine guns in maintop. searchlights on after searchlight platform, the low catapult on quarter deck and the guns of numbers 3 and 4 turrets.

Statements regarding the action of personnel who were on board during the attack are attached as enclosures.
The Executive Officer, the senior surviving officer, was not on board at the time of the attack.
[signed]
E.H. GEISHLEAN


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, December 7, 2007 6:48 AM

HERO


The Pearl Harbor Attack, 7 December 1941: U.S. Navy Ships Named for Individual Sailors to Commemorate their Actions during the Attack

Ship Name
Person Named For
Command at Pearl Harbor
Award
USS Bennion (DD-662)
CAPT Mervyn S. Bennion, USN
USS West Virginia

Medal of Honor
USS Cassin Young (DD-793)
CAPT Cassin Young, USN
USS Vestal

Medal of Honor
USS Flaherty (DE-135)
Ensign Francis C. Flaherty, USNR
USS Oklahoma

Medal of Honor
USS Frederick C. Davis, (DE-136)
Ensign Frederick C. Davis, USNR
USS Nevada

Navy Cross
USS Herbert C. Jones, (DE-137)
Ensign Herbert C. Jones, USNR
USS California

Medal of Honor
USS Hill (DE-141)
Chief Botwain Edwin J. Hill, USN
USS Nevada

Medal of Honor
USS Kidd (DD-661)
RADM Issac C. Kidd, USN
Commander, Battleship Div. ONE on USS Arizona

Medal of Honor
USS Miller (FF-1091)
Ship's Cook 3rd C Dorie Miller, USN
USS West Virginia

Navy Cross
USS Pharris (FF-1094)
LT Jackson C. Pharris, USN
USS California

Medal of Honor
USS Reeves (DE-156), USS Reeves (DLG-24)
Chief Radioman Thomas J. Reeves, USN
USS California
Medal of Honor
USS Ross (DDG-71)
LCDR Donald K. Ross, USN
USS Nevada
Medal of Honor
USS Scott (DE-214)
Machinist's Mate 1st C Robert R. Scott, USN
USS California
Medal of Honor
USS Tomich (DE-242)
Chief Watertender Peter Tomich, USN
USS Utah
Medal of Honor
USS Van Valkenburgh (DD-656)
CAPT Franklin Van Valkenburgh, USN
USS Arizona, commanding officer

Medal of Honor

Other Medals of Honor Awarded for Pearl Harbor Attack

LT John W. Finn , USN, NAS Kaneohe - Citation

CAPT Samuel G. Fuqua , USN - USS Arizona - Citation

Seaman First Class James R. Ward , USN - USS Oklahoma - Citation

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, December 7, 2007 8:18 AM

FIVVER


My father-in-law was a navy medic attached to the First Marine Division. He served with them during the battle of Okinawa (the bloodiest air/land/sea battle in US history). Several years ago we all vacationed in Hawaii together. Seeing Pearl Harbor through the eyes of a man who last saw it while they were still clearing the wreckage was an intense experience.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, December 7, 2007 9:05 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Interesting bit of history.

Make sure to include the McCollum memo, and station HYPO's intercepts of Japanese radio traffic in the JN-25 Code prior to the attack for historical accuracy.

Yes, they attacked us, and yes, it was an act of war, prior to a formal declaration of such, and thus a reprehensible deed of itself - as we were fully within our rights to aid nations friendly to us and not trade with folks we didn't like much - but it was not a surprise, or should not have been.

Either the folks up top knew, and hung our boys out to dry, or they failed to do the job we shell out so much money and tolerate restrictions on our freedoms for.

Either way, our intel agencies have always failed us when it really mattered.

That does not in any way diminish the heroism of our naval and other personnel who by their actions in the face of overwhelming force, preserved and defended (quite successfully, all things considered) much of our fleet that could have otherwise been devastated.

Of them all, one of the servicemen that really deserves a nod here is Ensign Joe Taussig, who promptly sounded the alarm on his ship, the USS Nevada, and speedily cranked up the boilers, then had to be physically dragged from an AA gun mount in order for his wounded leg to be treated.

Might not sound like much, but getting her moving and putting some ammo in the air likely prevented what could have been serious damage if she'd been stalled at drydock with her crew slow in responding.

It's a good thing to know, that when the intel folks fumble the ball, us 'ordinary americans' can stand and deliver, no matter what.

From the servicefolk at pearl harbor, to the NYFD, to mere civilians who put it on the line when the boom comes down - there is that, in all of us, it is what unites us, what makes us a nation.

And it's the reason I love America.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, December 7, 2007 9:33 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Interesting bit of history.

Make sure to include the McCollum memo, and station HYPO's intercepts of Japanese radio traffic in the JN-25 Code prior to the attack for historical accuracy.

Yes, they attacked us, and yes, it was an act of war, prior to a formal declaration of such, and thus a reprehensible deed of itself - as we were fully within our rights to aid nations friendly to us and not trade with folks we didn't like much - but it was not a surprise, or should not have been.

Either the folks up top knew, and hung our boys out to dry, or they failed to do the job we shell out so much money and tolerate restrictions on our freedoms for.

Either way, our intel agencies have always failed us when it really mattered.

If you really look at it you see a twisted tale of inter service rivalry, inefficiency and, well arrogant ambivalence. The American Ambassador to Japan warned they were planning something sometime before the event, and no one really took it seriously. I believe an intelligence dispatch arrived minutes after the attack had ended, largely because there was no official channel between the various intelligence arms, and they didn't much like sharing information.

Essentially a lot of people fucked up big time.



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, December 7, 2007 10:36 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:
If you really look at it you see a twisted tale of inter service rivalry, inefficiency and, well arrogant ambivalence. The American Ambassador to Japan warned they were planning something sometime before the event, and no one really took it seriously. I believe an intelligence dispatch arrived minutes after the attack had ended, largely because there was no official channel between the various intelligence arms, and they didn't much like sharing information.


Alot of people had pieces to the puzzle, but nobody was putting it together.

I note for the record that things like this traditionally happen. Nimitz knew it and planned for it. He got a desk job prior to the war and adivsed a number of others to do the same because he recognized that the folks with commands at the start would get replaced early on and he wanted the job. I believe he made the odd jump from Chief of the Bureau of Navigation to CINCPAC.

In this case the writing was on the wall as the Pacific Fleet was stripped of manpower, fuel, and funds in favor of lending ships and supplies to Britain and Russia. Lots of planes and ships but no money or fuel for training or recon. Watch Tora Tora Tora to get the idea. Don't watch Pearl Harbor cause its plain dumb.

H

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, December 7, 2007 10:40 AM

JONGSSTRAW

We carry in our hearts the true country, and that cannot be stolen.


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
[Either the folks up top knew, and hung our boys out to dry, or they failed to do the job we shell out so much money and tolerate restrictions on our freedoms for.

Either way, our intel agencies have always failed us when it really mattered.


There was a book written years ago by ex-British intelligence officers who testified and swore that Great Britain had broken the Japanese Code before Pearl Harbor. They said in the book that they did indeed notify FDR of the Japanese Fleet's movements as it lumbered its' way across the Pacific towards Hawaii. That assertion leads to many difficult questions, but nobody has ever wanted to ask or answer them.


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, December 7, 2007 11:17 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
Don't watch Pearl Harbor cause its plain dumb.

There seems to be an infection of Dumb World War 2 Hollywood films recently. U571 for instance. Because the Second World War is so boring you need to come up with stories that have no basis in reality to make it interesting...



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, December 7, 2007 11:31 AM

JONGSSTRAW

We carry in our hearts the true country, and that cannot be stolen.


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
Watch Tora Tora Tora to get the idea. Don't watch Pearl Harbor cause its plain dumb.


Actually there's no reason to watch any Hollywood movies about this war. The 1974 26-part documentary series "The World At War" narrated by Laurence Olivier is the quintessential filmed history of WWII. Also "Victory At Sea" documentary series is terrific too. PBS used to regularly show these 1 hour episodes, but I haven't seen them in many years.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, December 7, 2007 11:59 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Is it bad that my favorite WWII movie is actually "Kelly's Heros" ?

Ever more oddly, the person who introduced me to it... was my mother, cause it was hers too.

-F

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, December 7, 2007 12:56 PM

LEADB


If you ever make it to Hawaii be sure to go to the memorial in Perl Harbor. I went when I was 10, and I remember it well. (35 years ago +/-)

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, December 8, 2013 8:36 PM

OONJERAH



Excellent first hand account of the attack.


WWII vet recalls Pearl Harbor attack
http://www.mtdemocrat.com/news/wwii-vet-recalls-pearl-harbor-attack/

"... Howell rushed to the bridge, which was his assigned station,
as he heard the alarm sound for General Quarters.

"He estimated 80 Japanese planes came in the first wave although
they were part of a larger fleet that was attacking outlying areas
of Oahu. Caught by surprise, few American planes made it into the
air to mount a defense. All around them was a mass of black dots
of anti-aircraft fire from the ships that were able to fire and then
explosions from the ships that were hit.

“We were only saved because the ship was moored alone at
the buoy … We were lying in a line right behind the battleships
Nevada and Arizona and a string of other battleships were lined
up directly in line with our stern,” he said. “This gave me a full
view of the attack as it started. As the torpedo planes made
their drop, they swung in line with us and headed for our stern
and flew right past us at bridge level.

“Destroyers to our starboard quarter were cutting themselves
free and drifting and firing as best they could,” he said. ..."



====================== :>
All I suggest is a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest. ~Paul Simon

The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it. ~George Orwell

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, December 8, 2013 10:03 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Not that this wasn't a treacherous attack, and not that there wasn't a horrible loss of life and a lot of damage to ships and government property, but it seems it wasn't as bad a disaster as portrayed- seems like a good number of the battleships were repairable, and repaired and returned to service later, I hadn't ever heard that. And of course the Japanese missed the aircraft carriers and didn't bother with the submarines, which left 2 very potent weapons in America's hands, and altered the course of subsequent history.
To all the world- remember the lesson of Pearl Harbor. If you're gonna strike America, be sure it's a total blow- don't just hit hard enough to piss Americans off. We can take what you dish out, and we'll come for you to pay it back, and then some...

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, December 8, 2013 10:36 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


You're so tough, you wear tin trousers.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, December 9, 2013 12:57 AM

OONJERAH


Quote:

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
To all the world- remember the lesson of Pearl Harbor. If you're gonna
strike America, be sure it's a total blow- don't just hit hard enough to
piss Americans off. We can take what you dish out, and we'll come for
you to pay it back, and then some...



No brag. Just the facts, ma'am.

We were Not A Monster in those days.
We were really naively sweet. {sigh}

As for "and then some," thanks to Gen.
MacArthur, I suppose, we treated Japan
more than decently.


====================== :>
All I suggest is a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest. ~Paul Simon

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, December 9, 2013 2:07 AM

OONJERAH


When Japanese Prime Minister Nakasone visited President Reagan during his
administration, he asked for the auto import restriction to be rescinded,
saying "We've had a rougher time of it: consider Hiroshima."
The Gipper asked, "What has that got to do with it?"
"Well, we've never destroyed one of your cities," replied Nakasone.
Quickly Reagan cut in: "What about Detroit?"


When the American people heard about the Japanese vile sneak attack on
Pearl Harbor, they were shocked to the core. We changed that day, and
we're still changin'. It was against the Geneva Convention. It was against
what we believed any civilized country would do. It was even against
Japan's own sense of honor and face. ... We became Rage, the Hulk.

I wish I had the historical knowledge and writing talent to tell people,
Americans younger than me, what it did, how drastic the change in our
intent. Watch old Hollywood movies from the 30's and see how innocent
we were.

Our military men & our hawks in government, & the majority of US in
agreement, swore that this would never happen again. We'd be on guard
and never get blindsided again.

But now we have 9/11. See?

And here we go. "Hulk not like that."


====================== :>
The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it. ~George Orwell

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, December 9, 2013 6:09 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Quote:

If you really look at it you see a twisted tale of inter service rivalry, inefficiency and, well arrogant ambivalence



And that was govt back in 1941. Since then, it's gotten much much worse. Unbelievably so.



Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, December 9, 2013 12:02 PM

JONGSSTRAW

We carry in our hearts the true country, and that cannot be stolen.


The Japanese had been bombing cities and butchering hundreds of thousands of Chinese civilians since 1937. Why the U.S. was so complacent in 1941, and why our Marines went into the early Pacific Theater battles so ill-equipped and naive about the unbelieveably savage and diabolical nature of their enemy is a frustrating mystery to me.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, December 9, 2013 1:56 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Don't watch Pearl Harbor cause its plain dumb.

H



Hey let's make up shit, screw around with the timelines to tell an impossible story, throw in a boring pointless romantic subplot, then sign some A-listers and call it historically accurate.

Terrible movie.

Quote:

Why the U.S. was so complacent in 1941


Eh... One thing I'll credit the US for, we weren't in Nanking in time to stop that, but we actually had been fighting the Japanese even before they bombed Pearl Harbor, both sides just had bigger fish to fry so it wasn't considered a major conflict.

Remember the peace medals we dropped on Japan in the Doolittle raid? They were presented to us as a cease-fire accord.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, December 9, 2013 2:58 PM

OONJERAH


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
The Japanese had been bombing cities and butchering hundreds of thousands of Chinese civilians since 1937. Why the U.S. was so complacent in 1941, and why our Marines went into the early Pacific Theater battles so ill-equipped and naive about the unbelieveably savage and diabolical nature of their enemy is a frustrating mystery to me.




Our service men who were Japanese POWs found out about it.

As for ill-equipped, yes, Pearl Harbor got us into the war.
But once it did, we were primarily defensive in the Pacific
while sending the bulk of our power to Europe.


====================== :>
The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it. ~George Orwell

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, December 9, 2013 4:31 PM

JONGSSTRAW

We carry in our hearts the true country, and that cannot be stolen.


Japan had a secret weapon they planned on using on American cities. They built the largest and widest submarine at the time, and aircraft would take off from them and drop their bombs on coastal cities.

Japanese I-400 Class Submarine Aircraft Carrier

"The Imperial Japanese Navy's Sen Toku (secret submarine attack) I-400 class submarines were the largest submarines of World War II. These innovative vessels were submarine aircraft carriers that were capable of carrying three Aichi M6A Serian aircraft. They were designed to surface, launch the planes, and then dive again before they could be discovered.

The I-400 class submarines were designed to take the war to the United States mainland using submarine-launched aircraft to attack cities on both the eastern and western coasts of the United States. As the war progressed, the Japanese shifted their plans to focus on using the I-400 class submarines to attach the Panama Canal, hoping to destroy locks of the canal and cut U.S. supply lines to the Pacific. Training for this mission was completed in June of 1945, and the operation was ready to proceed, but by that point it was decided that attacking the Panama Canal would have little impact on the war's outcome and the submarines were redirected to prepare an attack on the U.S. carriers at Ulithi Atoll. The war ended before that attack could be carried out, and the U.S. Navy boarded and recovered the three I-400 class submarines. After studying these submarines, they were destroyed to prevent the Soviets from inspecting these innovative submarine aircraft carriers."

Hard to imagine the terror a bombing attack on Los Angeles or NYC would have caused back then. They could have bombed Washington DC as well. Definitely would have changed the course of the war. Liberating Europe might have had to be put on the back burner.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, December 9, 2013 4:45 PM

BYTEMITE


They also flew a bunch of bombs attached to balloons, taking advantage of the air current direction, but failed to realize that dispersal patterns would result in the bombs hitting absolutely nothing.

True story.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_balloon

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, December 7, 2017 5:14 AM

OONJERAH


Gosh ... it's that time again.

      Pearl Harbor Day


I know ... It happened before I was born.
Still seems important, tho.
... oooOO}{OOooo ...

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, December 9, 2017 9:26 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
[Either the folks up top knew, and hung our boys out to dry, or they failed to do the job we shell out so much money and tolerate restrictions on our freedoms for.

Either way, our intel agencies have always failed us when it really mattered.


There was a book written years ago by ex-British intelligence officers who testified and swore that Great Britain had broken the Japanese Code before Pearl Harbor. They said in the book that they did indeed notify FDR of the Japanese Fleet's movements as it lumbered its' way across the Pacific towards Hawaii. That assertion leads to many difficult questions, but nobody has ever wanted to ask or answer them.


FDR had campaigned for Isolationism. He was willing to o sacrifice all at Pearl Harbor (except Aircraft Carriers, which were all sent away from Pearl for the day of Attack) in order to convince America we should war.
In the 1944 Election, once the GOP Nominee was announced, he was granted briefings on National Security, and learned of FDR's Treason. He had a choice of 2 actions: reveal FDR's treachery and win the election, but inform the Japanese that we were reading their message traffic (causing greater American combat deaths), or else keep the Secret and hope the American Electorate would see through the duplicitous FDR.
He kept the Secret. The Honorable candidate lost the election, the disposable weasel won, changing the course of America.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, December 9, 2017 1:42 PM

BRENDA


My mother always believed that everyone in command of the American military knew that Pearl Harbour was going to be bombed and that is why nothing was done.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, December 9, 2017 10:45 PM

OONJERAH


Something was done.
  All of our aircraft carriers & their escorts were sent out on maneuvers.

  Before this thread, I never heard that our commanders knew the attack was coming.
If they purposely let our servicemen at Pearl Harbor be ambushed, they had a reason.
  I suggest that, since WWI, most Americans were isolationist. This was the way to get
us into the War ... We had to stop Hitler!
  I believe after the attack on Pearl, our men were standing in line to enlist. Now: No
more Hitler.

... oooOO}{OOooo ...

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, December 9, 2017 11:27 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


I have to admit that it's kind of surreal when I'm living in a world where distrust in Government is so prevalent that a lot of the things I believed years ago are being considered as at least plausible by a lot of people now.

Not that it does us any good, other than to realize that we're just pawns in a much larger game, and it probably is better to just try to make your own life as worthwhile as you can and enrich the lives of those you care about.

I'd just keep in mind that if it's possible that Pearl Harbor was set up, it's also possible that 911 was, and who knows what happened during 8 years of Obama and what will happen during Trump.

These people with the power don't give a damn about any of us at the end of the day. We're just statistics.

It's actually not all that bad when you accept this. As long as you're not going out of your way to hurt anybody, this is still a pretty great place to live, relatively speaking, and as long as you don't allow your complete impotence to do anything about the bigger picture things drive you insane, you can still have a pretty good life.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, December 10, 2017 12:35 AM

ELVISCHRIST


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:
Something was done.
  All of our aircraft carriers & their escorts were sent out on maneuvers.

  Before this thread, I never heard that our commanders knew the attack was coming.
If they purposely let our servicemen at Pearl Harbor be ambushed, they had a reason.
  I suggest that, since WWI, most Americans were isolationist. This was the way to get
us into the War ... We had to stop Hitler!
  I believe after the attack on Pearl, our men were standing in line to enlist. Now: No
more Hitler.

... oooOO}{OOooo ...




Thing is, Pearl Harbor didn't get us into the war in Europe. Hitler declaring war on the United States did. We'd have been happy just fighting the Japanese, but Hitler was bound by treaty with the other Axis powers to declare war on anyone who declared war on Italy or Japan, so he did so, even though he didn't want to, and was already having more than a hard enough time with the British, having utterly failed to defeat them first at Dunkirk, where so many escaped, and then during the summer of 1940, during the Battle of Britain, when Hitler's vaunted Luftwaffe proved to be no match for the plucky young men of the Royal Flying Corps.

Japan's plan was never to fight a prolonged war against America. They were backed into a corner by our trade embargo, and were starving of resources. Their warrior's code allowed for quick hits, a fast offense, an early victory, not a defensive war or a prolonged one. They failed to annihilate the fleet at Pearl Harbor, and once that happened they realized they were screwed; it was just a matter of time. The plan was to hit us so hard we could not retaliate in a timely manner, grab all the land they could (and thus the resources and mineral wealth of the entire Pacific Rim), and then sue for terms of peace and make an amicable treaty with us. But no battle plan ever survives first contact with the enemy, as we all know too well.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

YOUR OPTIONS

NEW POSTS TODAY

USERPOST DATE

OTHER TOPICS

DISCUSSIONS
Where are the democrats? Waiting for the Deep State to get rid of Trump?
Mon, December 11, 2017 14:07 - 20 posts
Accusing Someone You Disagree With Of Being A Russian Troll Is Admitting You Have No Argument
Mon, December 11, 2017 13:53 - 83 posts
Bomb Exploded Times Square
Mon, December 11, 2017 13:13 - 5 posts
Putin Orders Withdrawal Of Russian Troops During Surprise Syria Visit
Mon, December 11, 2017 11:23 - 1 posts
Game Companies are Morons.
Mon, December 11, 2017 10:27 - 45 posts
Male Role Models
Mon, December 11, 2017 10:25 - 108 posts
New Alabama Motto Contest
Mon, December 11, 2017 08:09 - 6 posts
A thread for Democrats Only
Sun, December 10, 2017 23:25 - 236 posts
In the garden, and RAIN!!!!
Sun, December 10, 2017 16:12 - 265 posts
Shout out to Second - hope you are doing well
Sun, December 10, 2017 10:02 - 210 posts
Trump not invited to Paris December climate change summit for now, says France
Sun, December 10, 2017 08:59 - 5 posts
Trump moves US Embassy to Jerusalem
Sun, December 10, 2017 01:16 - 28 posts

FFF.NET SOCIAL