REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

If you like Bush & what he's done to this world, you are evil.

POSTED BY: CHRISISALL
UPDATED: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 09:38
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Thursday, June 12, 2008 10:51 AM

CHRISISALL


There's really no discussion; if you support lies, torture & war profiteering, then you are in Congress with the Beast. You are evil by mis-interpreting reality, or by embracing greed by way of death.

May God have mercy, 'cause Bush won't.


Biped Planetisall


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Thursday, June 12, 2008 11:20 AM

KHYRON


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
There's really no discussion; if you support lies, torture & war profiteering, then you are in Congress with the Beast.


Those people are in congress!?

Oh wait, I guess some of them actually are...

------------------------------

This isn't my signature. I have to type this every time I make a post.

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Thursday, June 12, 2008 11:23 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Khyron:


Oh wait, I guess some of them actually are...


Yes, in point of fact.

isall

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Thursday, June 12, 2008 11:52 AM

CHRISISALL


bumped to stir trouble

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Thursday, June 12, 2008 11:56 AM

ELVISCHRIST


[Bush voice]Yer one a-them trouble-stirrers, aintcha? Heh-heh.[/Bush voice]



"I repeat myself when under stress. I repeat myself when under stress. I repeat myself when under stress. I repeat-" - King Crimson, Indiscipline

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Thursday, June 12, 2008 12:34 PM

SICKDUDE


You tell 'em, Cisall!!!


"Your gratuitous jello awaits." - Dr. Helen Magnus, Sanctuary

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Thursday, June 12, 2008 2:26 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
There's really no discussion; if you support lies, torture & war profiteering, then you are in Congress with the Beast. You are evil by mis-interpreting reality, or by embracing greed by way of death.

May God have mercy, 'cause Bush won't.


Biped Planetisall




I don't support lies, and Bush has not told any. I flat out don't agree w/ your premise, so I am for Bush, for freedom and will back him , his mission anywhere, all day long, for as long as I live.

Further, it is YOU who is evil, for being a knowing , willing useful idiot for those who want to destroy Western civilization, force women into Burkas, force girls into having their bodies mutilated, and all that is backwards and evil

May Shiva have no mercy on your worthless hides.



It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Thursday, June 12, 2008 2:35 PM

GINOBIFFARONI


http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2008/06/11/f-rfa-macdonald.html

The blueprint for Forward Base America
Last Updated: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 | 7:14 PM ET Comments30Recommend60
By Neil Macdonald CBC News

Like the guy in the movie yelling pointlessly out the window how he's mad as hell and isn't going to take it anymore, American voters have a persistent fantasy about their own transformative powers.

They want out of Iraq, which is understandable. Beyond all the corpses, walking wounded and destruction, George W. Bush's expeditionary adventure in social engineering is costing Americans $2 billion a week and there are all sorts of good uses for cash like that here at home.

But most Americans don't understand what is going on right now, urgently and secretly, in Baghdad and Washington. Nor do they realize it may be part of a grand plan, hatched by the same conservative group that brought about the war on Iraq in the first place.

The story began to emerge in a report last week by Patrick Cockburn, the authoritative Middle East correspondent for the Independent.

The gist of it is this: As Bush's term winds down, the administration is urgently pushing for a new "status of forces agreement" with the Iraqi government that would effectively set up an indefinite occupation of Iraq. American negotiators want the deal signed by the end of July. The Iraqis aren't happy.

The United States is reported to be demanding the right to establish up to 58 military bases, jurisdiction over Iraqi airspace up to 30,000 feet, permanent immunity from prosecution for American troops and civilian contractors, and the continuing right to arrest and imprison Iraqis that the U.S. authorities deem a threat, even if the Iraqi government doesn't.
A plan foretold

Cockburn reported that the Bush administration is strongly opposed to any Iraqi referendum on the proposal, for obvious reasons.

Most Iraqis want the Americans gone as soon as possible, not entrenched indefinitely, and everyone there knows better than to go anywhere near the private-sector mercenaries who guard American diplomats and American interests. When they harm and even kill Iraqis, they get to walk away without so much as a by-your-leave. (Usually, they're just transferred back to the U.S.)

"We are being asked to sign for our own occupation," Iraqi lawmaker Jalal al Din al Saghir told McClatchy Newspapers. "Is there sovereignty for Iraq — or isn't there? If it is left to them, they would ask for immunity even for the American dogs."

Neither the negotiations, nor their implications, have received much ink or attention here in the U.S. The Bush administration refuses to discuss the matter and is taking the view that Congress has no role.

Republican presidential nominee John McCain, who believes the U.S. can "win" the Iraq war, has refused to comment on the plan. His opponent, Democrat Barack Obama, who favours a "careful" withdrawal of U.S. troops, has said only that he opposes creation of any permanent American bases in Iraq.

But none of this should be any surprise. In fact, the conservatives who surround Bush explicitly telegraphed their intentions years ago.
The blueprint

Back in 2000, with a Democrat still in the White House, a neo-conservative think tank called the Project for a New American Century produced a document titled "Rebuilding America's Defenses."

PNAC was sponsored by some stellar conservatives. Among them, the current vice-president, Dick Cheney; the former defence secretary Donald Rumsfeld; a war planner named Paul Wolfowitz; and a pantheon of other hawks from the political and Christian right.

Among other things, the September 2000 manifesto proposed military solutions for anything standing in the way of a worldwide Pax Americana.

The PNAC plan called for regime change as a tool of U.S. foreign policy and a strengthening of American military might so as to enable the fighting of simultaneous wars, all in pursuit of an American "benevolent hegemony," to borrow the phrasing of columnist William Kristol, another PNAC stalwart.

It proposed the removal of Saddam Hussein and envisioned the establishment of "forward operating bases" abroad, especially in the Middle East. Iran, noted the report, could well turn out to be an even bigger threat than Saddam and would need to be dealt with accordingly.

In a particularly prescient sentence, the report predicted that such a transformation was likely to take a long time, "absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event — like a new Pearl Harbor."

Well, the catalyzing event took place a year later when al-Qaeda operatives flew passenger jets into the World Trade Centre. The PNAC club had their regime change in Baghdad a year and a half after that.

Now, it appears, the time has come to negotiate the forward operating bases and turn American attention further eastward.
Forward Base America?

The Iranians, who pay closer attention to such details than the average American, are pushing Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki to reject the arrangement Washington is proposing.

But Iraq is now so thoroughly broken that al-Maliki may not have any choice but to sign. It doesn't matter what the Iraqi people might want, any more than it matters what the American people want.

"Do you know what you call a country in that part of the world with no real air force or army?" asks John Pike, a military expert with globalsecurity.org. "You call it a protectorate.

"Americans are the Republican Guard now," says Pike, referring to the Iraqi special contingent that was responsible for protecting Saddam Hussein. "As long as they are in Baghdad, nobody is going to try to steal the government when no one is looking.

"How many fighter aircraft did Saddam have? Hundreds. How many does al-Maliki have? None. How many tanks did Saddam have? Thousands. How many does al-Maliki have? Dozens."

To Pike, Iraqi unhappiness with the continuing American presence is very nearly irrelevant.

"They're just going have to get used to it," he says. "There's a lot of people on this planet who've gotten used to a lot of things they didn't like."

That assessment would have to include American voters, stuck with the implementation of militarism foretold.

As President Bush himself likes to remind people (when he is talking about America's enemies): When somebody threatens to do something, you should pay attention.




Lets party like its 1939

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Thursday, June 12, 2008 2:41 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:


I don't support lies, and Bush has not told any.



The problem is, you DO support lies. Saying you don't, and that Bush hasn't told any, is in and of itself a lie.

To say that Bush has never, ever, EVER lied... is a lie.

So you see, you do indeed support lies and the lying liars to tell them. Now and forever more.

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

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Thursday, June 12, 2008 2:42 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Rap

Do you even read what you write ? And if you do, does the unhinged-crazy-talk quality ever concern you ?
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
I don't support lies, and Bush has not told any. I flat out don't agree w/ your premise, so I am for Bush, for freedom and will back him , his mission anywhere, all day long, for as long as I live.

Further, it is YOU who is evil, for being a knowing , willing useful idiot for those who want to destroy Western civilization, force women into Burkas, force girls into having their bodies mutilated, and all that is backwards and evil

May Shiva have no mercy on your worthless hides.



***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Thursday, June 12, 2008 2:59 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:


I don't support lies, and Bush has not told any.

Where did I lose you with the whole "There is no discussion" thing?
You are part of the Puppet Theatre here, them that are evil because you back evil actions. I'm not discussin', I'm tellin', and if you don't wanna hear it, go back to an entertainment thread where I can find you agreeable and interesting; on this thread you are one of Satan's mouthpieces, and thou shalt not suffer a witch to live, I believe is the applicable Biblical phrase....
You are ORDERED to read Gino's post above, and UNDERSTAND it as well!!!!

My thread my rulesisall

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Thursday, June 12, 2008 3:00 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Oh.

I thought Rapo was trying to be funny

You mean that was SERIOUS???? I guess I'll have to take back that howl of laughter!


---------------------------------
"How did your brain even learn human speech?"- Wash

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Thursday, June 12, 2008 3:01 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


rue - I know Chris is mainly joking, so I'm not all that worried about him. But there are folks out there whose unhinged crazy- talk quality does give me pause. Why do you ask ?

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Thursday, June 12, 2008 3:03 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:


I don't support lies, and Bush has not told any.



The problem is, you DO support lies. Saying you don't, and that Bush hasn't told any, is in and of itself a lie.

To say that Bush has never, ever, EVER lied... is a lie.

So you see, you do indeed support lies and the lying liars to tell them. Now and forever more.

Mike




Drop the b.s and flatly state - per the Iraq war... WHERE DID BUSH LIE ??



Give specifics. Not where he said one thing, and was later proven to be wrong, but where he ABSOLUTLEY knew something, in advance, and then lied about it.

I want that shown HERE, now.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Thursday, June 12, 2008 3:05 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Oh.

I thought Rapo was trying to be funny

You mean that was SERIOUS???? I guess I'll have to take back that howl of laughter!





Even more important than being serious, I was being RIGHT.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Thursday, June 12, 2008 3:08 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Rapo: Show me a person who has never lied about anything, ever.

Anyway, he lied about his drugs.

----------
AFA permanent bases in Iraq... it's been discussed off and on for years. Every time it comes up somebody makes a fuss and it goes dark again. But this is "do or die" time for GWB.

But what I dont' understand is... even if GWB and al Maliki reach an accord, say it's written into Iraq law or becomes some sort of alliance, what's to prevent the next President from reversing the agreement?

Quote:

I was being RIGHT
But we already know your political leanings. You only tell us, like, twenty times a day!



---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.

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Thursday, June 12, 2008 3:10 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
He lied about his drugs.



----------
AFA permanent bases in Iraq... it's been discussed off and on for years. Every time it comes up somebody makes a fuss and it goes dark again. But this is "do or die" time for GWB.

But what I dont' understand is... even if GWB and al Maliki reach an accord, say it's written into Iraq law or becomes some sort of alliance, what's to prevent the next President from reversing the agreement?





---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.



He's not lied about drugs, and that has NOTHING to do w/ the Iraq war.

Try again.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Thursday, June 12, 2008 3:13 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


well, you said
Quote:

I don't support lies, and Bush has not told any.
I thought that was a general statement. But of course, he has. About his drug use, for one thing.

---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.

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Thursday, June 12, 2008 3:20 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
well, you said
Quote:

I don't support lies, and Bush has not told any.
I thought that was a general statement. But of course, he has. About his drug use, for one thing.

---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.



That's twice now you've made that accusation , and have nothing to back it up. But I was answering Chris's original post, and referring to the bigger, all more important issue of Iraq.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Thursday, June 12, 2008 3:24 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


35 Articles of Impeachment filed in Congress against George W Bush this week. It took Rep Dennis Kucinich 5 hours to read the entire indictment:


http://cspanjunkie.org/?p=158
http://kucinich.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=93581
http://www.infowars.com/?p=2654


Bush ancestor Thomas Percy's head is still on a stick in British Parliament
www.parliament.uk/parliamentary_publications_and_archives/parliamentar
y_archives/gunpowder_plot_400_pow.cfm


V FOR VENDETTA FOR REAL: Bush family's terrorism in Gunpowder Plot to bomb British Parliament



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Thursday, June 12, 2008 4:06 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


*sigh*

Just when RWED was getting fun again.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Thursday, June 12, 2008 4:35 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Just a reminder of what a real horny bastard looks like.



It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Thursday, June 12, 2008 4:56 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


What does this have to do with the lies Bush told to attack Iraq, again ?

***************************************************************
When Clinton lied, nobody died.

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Thursday, June 12, 2008 5:33 PM

SERGEANTX


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
What does this have to do with the lies Bush told to attack Iraq, again ?



Didn't you know? Clinton tricked Bush into telling those lies. Which makes them not really lies! Yeah.... it was Clinton's fault. That's the ticket!

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Thursday, June 12, 2008 5:37 PM

GINOBIFFARONI


Quote:

Originally posted by SergeantX:
Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
What does this have to do with the lies Bush told to attack Iraq, again ?



Didn't you know? Clinton tricked Bush into telling those lies. Which makes them not really lies! Yeah.... it was Clinton's fault. That's the ticket!

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock




It is because Clinton is such a handsome bastard. the forces of attraction drive W into doing crazy things like he was a teen again. Mind you that would explain the ADD, the awkwardness, etc


Rap will shoot this down, but he has hated Clinton ever since his application to be an intern was rejected.



Lets party like its 1939

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Thursday, June 12, 2008 6:09 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Just a reminder of what a real horny bastard looks like.






Quote:


And that you'd buy into such propaganda as what a President did or didn't say, based on whether you LIKE him or not.



Quote:

There are bigger things than petty partisanship.



YOUR words, not mine.

Have you bought into all the propaganda based on whether you LIKE him or not, or are you engaging in petty partisanship, or both?

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia

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Friday, June 13, 2008 1:59 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
What does this have to do with the lies Bush told to attack Iraq, again ?

***************************************************************
When Clinton lied, nobody died.



Bush told no lies to attack Iraq. That's the point.

And while others need to photo shop an image of Bush , what I posted was an actual photo from Time Magazine, with what "appears to be " Clinton's Satan like horns coming out of his head.

Even the simplest of y'all out there have to admit, that's kinda funny.


It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Friday, June 13, 2008 2:03 AM

ELVISCHRIST


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
What does this have to do with the lies Bush told to attack Iraq, again ?

***************************************************************
When Clinton lied, nobody died.



Bush told no lies to attack Iraq. That's the point.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "



Just keep tellin' yourself that...

Takin' Care of Business, Baby!

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Friday, June 13, 2008 2:10 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by ElvisChrist:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
What does this have to do with the lies Bush told to attack Iraq, again ?

***************************************************************
When Clinton lied, nobody died.



Bush told no lies to attack Iraq. That's the point.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "



Just keep tellin' yourself that...

Takin' Care of Business, Baby!



You know what I'd like ? I'd like for YOU or anyone to given an example of ONE lie which Bush told that took us to war w/ Iraq.

JUST ONE !! So far, in 5 + yrs, no one seems to have remembered a single one. I find that curious, don't you ?

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Friday, June 13, 2008 2:18 AM

KHYRON


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
You know what I'd like ? I'd like for YOU or anyone to given an example of ONE lie which Bush told that took us to war w/ Iraq.

JUST ONE !! So far, in 5 + yrs, no one seems to have remembered a single one. I find that curious, don't you ?

I find it curious that you don't remember anyone remembering any of his lies.

http://www.bushlies.net/iraqlies.html

------------------------------

This isn't my signature. I have to type this every time I make a post.

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Friday, June 13, 2008 2:30 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


You can't do better than to offer a link to a partisan, biased web site that twists and distorts the facts ?


Wow.


All I asked for was ONE lie, and you can't even do that. Amazing.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Friday, June 13, 2008 2:37 AM

KHYRON


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
You can't do better than to offer a link to a partisan, biased web site that twists and distorts the facts ?

Please let me know which of the so-called lies mentioned on that website aren't lies at all so that I can inform the webmaster about his awfully partisan and biased mistake(s).

------------------------------

This isn't my signature. I have to type this every time I make a post.

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Friday, June 13, 2008 2:44 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Here's an example of what the Left twists and distorts and then calls LIES , when in fact, there's no lie here, what so ever.

Lie ? Saddam Hussein was a threat because he could have given weapons of mass destruction to terrorist enemies

What was discovered, AFTERWARDS :HAD NO WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION TO GIVE OUT. ( Everyone assumed this not to be the case, most Democrats included . Not a lie )

“had no . . . strategy or plan for the revival of WMD after sanctions” ended. ( This has proven to be false. Saddam DID have plans to revive his WMD program after sanctions ended. )

Quote:

IS IT TRUE that "no WMD was found" in Iraq?
IN FACT:
The Iraq Survey Group found that Saddam Hussein retained both the intention and the capability to revive bio-chemical weapons programs after sanctions were ended.
The reports we had from U.S. intelligence officials on Iraqi WMD painted essentially the same picture that those officials had presented to the Clinton Administration. The CIA declared that Saddam had chemical and biological weapons stockpiles. The stockpiles catalogued by the UN weapons inspectors in 1999 were still unaccounted for, and were therefore presumed to exist. (p. 224)

[T]he Iraq Survey Group team concluded that Saddam had retained the ability to produce chemical and biological weapons rapidly (within a month or two). In the 1990s he had shut down factories dedicated solely to making such weapons, replacing them with "dual-use" facilities capable of producing both civilian products and chemical or biological weapons. That gave him deniability if inspections ever started up again, as Saddam evidently expected they would. (p. 327)

The Iraq Survey Group also found that Saddam had the intention to revive Iraq's chemical and biological weapons programs once the sanctions were ended. He had preserved the necessary teams of technicians, who would be the key to reviving the programs quickly. (p. 327)

The public's impression of the Duelfer Report on these matters was shaped by news media headlines to the effect that "nothing was found." Those headlines were misleading (one might even say fundamentally false), because the ISG found substantial WMD capabilities in Iraq, including personnel, materiel, facilities, and intentions-but not the stockpiles of the weapons themselves. (p. 328)


In the end, there are only three possible explanations for the failure to find the WMD materiel that had been catalogued in detail by UNSCOM. Saddam might have destroyed it, he might have hidden it in Iraq, or he might have transferred it out of Iraq. To this day, we do not know for sure which explanation is correct. (p. 330)

The Iraq Survey Group confirmed that President Bush had grounds for viewing Iraq's WMD capabilities as a compelling threat. The CIA's unsupportable statements about Iraqi stockpiles and WMD activity did not justify critics in making unsupportable pronouncements of their own, to the effect that Saddam had no WMD ambitions or capabilities. (p. 330)


http://www.waranddecision.com/misconceptions/misconception-8
Iraq failed “to acquire long range delivery systems “to replace inventory exhausted in the Iran/Iraq war.” ( It's unlikely Saddam would have sold / given away any of his medium to long range scuds - a moot point. But then one has to ask, what was he using to bomb Israel with then ? Hmmm )

The survey group “uncovered no evidence Iraq retained Scud-variant missiles” and “documentation suggests that Iraq did not retain such missiles after 1991.”

Iraq’s nuclear program ended in 1991 following the Gulf War.
“Initial, Saddam chose to conceal his nuclear program in its entirety. . . [but] [a]ggressive UN inspections after Desert Storm forced Saddam to admit the existence of the program and destroy or surrender compenents of the program.” ( Wait..Saddam was trying to HIDE something from the Inspectors ? Tell me this isn't true !! )

“Iraq unilaterally destroyed is undeclared chemical weapons stockpile in 1991. There are no credible indications that Bagdad resumed production of chemical munitions therafter.” ( No one knows that for certain, because of the shell game Saddam played w/ U.N. Inspectors. )

“With the economy at rock bottom in late 1995 . . . Baghdad [destroyed undeclared stocks of biological weapons] and abandoned its existing BW [biological warfare] program in the belief it constituted a potential embarrassment” which would undercut any ability to lift sanctions. ( More " undeclared " stocks of biological weapons. Iraq wasn't coming clean w/ all the " undeclared " munitions it had , how was ANYONE to know if this really was the last of what they had ??

In spite of exhaustive investigation, ISG found no evidence that Iraq possessed, or was developing BW agent product systems mounted on road vehicles or railway wagons.” ( Again, what of the UNDECLARED stockpiles ? Iraq was charged w/ producing EVERYTHING it had, and yet yrs after the inspections started, would continue to find MORE undeclared items. Since a true account could not be known, it's impossible to say we knew for certain that the WMD stocks or their production methods were TRUELY destroyed. )


It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Friday, June 13, 2008 3:12 AM

KHYRON


Wow, AURaptor, you were right!

"Saddam Hussein was a threat because he could have given weapons of mass destruction to terrorist enemies"

Okay, weapons of mass destruction he didn't have, but could have possibly made once the sanctions were over and the economy had stabilized itself. Alright, this "what if"-scenario, unrelated to the claims of imminent doom made by Bush, has convinced me that Bush in fact didn't lie about anything. All those other lies he's accused of have been proven to be untrue by that excerpt from War And Decision.

By the way, if any of you liberal Bush-hating peace-mongers who are reading this don't know the book that AURaptor was quoting from, it was written by Douglas J. Feith, more info here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_J._Feith. Just the sort of unpartisan, unbiased source of information AURaptor wants to see in this discussion.

------------------------------

This isn't my signature. I have to type this every time I make a post.

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Friday, June 13, 2008 3:36 AM

ELVISCHRIST


Quote:

JUST ONE !! So far, in 5 + yrs, no one seems to have remembered a single one. I find that curious, don't you ?



They've been gone over ad nauseum, for 5+ years. So far, YOU are the only one who can't seem to remember that.

EC

Takin' Care of Business, Baby!

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Friday, June 13, 2008 3:37 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Hey, I just dismantled one of the silly " lies " that this partisan site claims Bush gave to lead us into war.

But it wasn't a lie, and that's NOT the reason we went into Iraq in the 1st place.

For the 9 millionth time... 17 UN Resolutions , not abided to by Saddam

Broken promises from the 1st Gulf War.


Any of that ring a bell ?


I'm guessing not, not w/ you.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Friday, June 13, 2008 3:39 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by ElvisChrist:
Quote:

JUST ONE !! So far, in 5 + yrs, no one seems to have remembered a single one. I find that curious, don't you ?



They've been gone over ad nauseum, for 5+ years. So far, YOU are the only one who can't seem to remember that.

EC

Takin' Care of Business, Baby!




Give ONE lie, and stop parroting the Left wing mantra that " they've been given ad nauseam , for 5 years ! " ..

If there's so many, then it should be easy to give me ONE!!!

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Friday, June 13, 2008 3:40 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


I really should stayout of this thread, but I can't help myself.
How 'bout this one?

On May 29, 2003, during a visit to Poland, President Bush declared that the U.S. had “found the weapons of mass destruction. We found biological laboratories. . . . They’re illegal. They’re against the United Nations resolutions, and we’ve so far discovered two.”
On June 1, 2003, Bush proclaimed that “we found a biological laboratory in Iraq which the UN prohibited.”

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Friday, June 13, 2008 3:42 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

By the way, if any of you liberal Bush-hating peace-mongers who are reading this don't know the book that AURaptor was quoting from, it was written by Douglas J. Feith, more info here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_J._Feith. Just the sort of unpartisan, unbiased source of information AURaptor wants to see in this discussion.




Then explain your way out of this FACT, which the 'unbiased' media some how overlooked from the same report YOU claim does Bush in.


The stockpiles catalogued by the UN weapons inspectors in 1999 were still unaccounted for, and were therefore presumed to exist. (p. 224)


It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Friday, June 13, 2008 3:45 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
I really should stayout of this thread, but I can't help myself.
How 'bout this one?

On May 29, 2003, during a visit to Poland, President Bush declared that the U.S. had “found the weapons of mass destruction. We found biological laboratories. . . . They’re illegal. They’re against the United Nations resolutions, and we’ve so far discovered two.”
On June 1, 2003, Bush proclaimed that “we found a biological laboratory in Iraq which the UN prohibited.”



First of all, that's POST war information. It has nothing to do w/ anything which was said that allegedly got us into war.

And if he's told they found those things, by his own people, are you saying no such facilities were found ? Could be that what they found were facilities which could be converted , with relative ease, into chem/ bio facilities, or they never were. Could be that he was told wrong. How do you KNOW it was a lie ?

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Friday, June 13, 2008 3:47 AM

ELVISCHRIST


Quote:


“Iraq unilaterally destroyed is undeclared chemical weapons stockpile in 1991. There are no credible indications that Bagdad resumed production of chemical munitions therafter.” ( No one knows that for certain, because of the shell game Saddam played w/ U.N. Inspectors. )



The problem with your argument is that it starts with a presumption of guilt and goes from there. If you start with the proposition that Iraq has WMD and then demand that they prove they don't, you're setting yourself up for the outcome you want. It's up to YOU to prove they DO have them, not the other way around.

You say no one has ever, EVER pointed out even a single lie that Bush told. By the same token, no one has ever brought forth one single piece of solid evidence that Saddam had WMD programs in place at the time of the 2003 invasion. If you're going to start a war, you should really lay out your evidence and your reasons first. And saying "everyone thought he had them" isn't a valid reason. You've never presented one iota of real, tangible evidence that stood up to investigation.

And THAT is the Big Lie - The lie that the war was ever necessary or inevitable, the lie that Saddam had WMD, was trying to acquire them, or was planning on restarting any program at the earliest possible convenience. The lie that he was in league with Al Qaeda, or that the "smoking gun" would be in the form of a mushroom cloud. The lie that the war would be over in a matter of days or weeks, but likely not more than a few months at most. The lie that Republicans "support the troops".



Takin' Care of Business, Baby!

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Friday, June 13, 2008 3:52 AM

KHYRON


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
The stockpiles catalogued by the UN weapons inspectors in 1999 were still unaccounted for, and were therefore presumed to exist. (p. 224)

I suppose a good idea would've been to give the weapons inspectors a decent time window to find them back in 2003. Instead, they were abruptly pulled out of the country after a token amount of time so that the war could get started before the Iraqi summer.

------------------------------

This isn't my signature. I have to type this every time I make a post.

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Friday, June 13, 2008 3:52 AM

ELVISCHRIST


Quote:

How do you KNOW it was a lie ?



Because his lips were moving?



Takin' Care of Business, Baby!

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Friday, June 13, 2008 4:29 AM

KHYRON


Heck, I'll humour you, AURaptor.

President Bush and Secretary Powell repeatedly claimed they had evidence that Iraq attempted to buy 500 tons of uranium oxide from Niger, which can be used to make fuel for nuclear reactors.

Were they lying or weren't they? You decide!

------------------------------

This isn't my signature. I have to type this every time I make a post.

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Friday, June 13, 2008 4:32 AM

SIMONWHO


Just to make it clear, Auraptor is looking for a clear lie told by Bush. Just as long as it isn't one reported by a site that is biased (so only Fox News is acceptable). And it can't be a post-war lie because of... you know, the reason. And it can't be anything that has been proved a lie afterwards.

Why oh why can't people provide such a simple thing?

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Friday, June 13, 2008 4:45 AM

TELCOD


The United States disappeared years ago and no one noticed. Corporations run the sham and you all babble about nothing. Getting my sailboat ready to go and am looking into becoming a German citizen. (My father was born there) "Amerika. Love it or leave it." I'm with the leaving part. Can't afford the lousy medical care anyway. Did my time in the Nam. Carried me out. Stupid 18 year old. Don't think God will forgive me. You neither.

Did any of you watch Firefly?

The only good thing about the upcoming election is that it will probably be the last one. They won't even bother next time (May it be so) as you sheepishly swallow $8.00/gal gasoline. It makes absolutely no difference. Not even in regards to the body count.

"But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security." SEDITION BABY!

Captain B
Mark 13 - "And no flesh shall be spared"

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Friday, June 13, 2008 5:39 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


"... with what "appears to be " Clinton's Satan like horns coming out of his head ."

THREE horns ??? Do you not know how to count ? The devil doesn't have THREE horns. And, well, maybe 'cause there were THREE I thought it looked more like a crown.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Friday, June 13, 2008 5:47 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Here's an example of what the Left twists and distorts and then calls LIES , when in fact, there's no lie here, what so ever.

Lie ? Saddam Hussein was a threat because he could have given weapons of mass destruction to terrorist enemies

What was discovered, AFTERWARDS :HAD NO WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION TO GIVE OUT. ( Everyone assumed this not to be the case, most Democrats included . Not a lie )

“had no . . . strategy or plan for the revival of WMD after sanctions” ended. ( This has proven to be false. Saddam DID have plans to revive his WMD program after sanctions ended. )

Quote:

IS IT TRUE that "no WMD was found" in Iraq?
IN FACT:
The Iraq Survey Group found that Saddam Hussein retained both the intention and the capability to revive bio-chemical weapons programs after sanctions were ended.
The reports we had from U.S. intelligence officials on Iraqi WMD painted essentially the same picture that those officials had presented to the Clinton Administration. The CIA declared that Saddam had chemical and biological weapons stockpiles. The stockpiles catalogued by the UN weapons inspectors in 1999 were still unaccounted for, and were therefore presumed to exist. (p. 224)

[T]he Iraq Survey Group team concluded that Saddam had retained the ability to produce chemical and biological weapons rapidly (within a month or two). In the 1990s he had shut down factories dedicated solely to making such weapons, replacing them with "dual-use" facilities capable of producing both civilian products and chemical or biological weapons. That gave him deniability if inspections ever started up again, as Saddam evidently expected they would. (p. 327)

The Iraq Survey Group also found that Saddam had the intention to revive Iraq's chemical and biological weapons programs once the sanctions were ended. He had preserved the necessary teams of technicians, who would be the key to reviving the programs quickly. (p. 327)

The public's impression of the Duelfer Report on these matters was shaped by news media headlines to the effect that "nothing was found." Those headlines were misleading (one might even say fundamentally false), because the ISG found substantial WMD capabilities in Iraq, including personnel, materiel, facilities, and intentions-but not the stockpiles of the weapons themselves. (p. 328)


In the end, there are only three possible explanations for the failure to find the WMD materiel that had been catalogued in detail by UNSCOM. Saddam might have destroyed it, he might have hidden it in Iraq, or he might have transferred it out of Iraq. To this day, we do not know for sure which explanation is correct. (p. 330)

The Iraq Survey Group confirmed that President Bush had grounds for viewing Iraq's WMD capabilities as a compelling threat. The CIA's unsupportable statements about Iraqi stockpiles and WMD activity did not justify critics in making unsupportable pronouncements of their own, to the effect that Saddam had no WMD ambitions or capabilities. (p. 330)


http://www.waranddecision.com/misconceptions/misconception-8
Iraq failed “to acquire long range delivery systems “to replace inventory exhausted in the Iran/Iraq war.” ( It's unlikely Saddam would have sold / given away any of his medium to long range scuds - a moot point. But then one has to ask, what was he using to bomb Israel with then ? Hmmm )

The survey group “uncovered no evidence Iraq retained Scud-variant missiles” and “documentation suggests that Iraq did not retain such missiles after 1991.”

Iraq’s nuclear program ended in 1991 following the Gulf War.
“Initial, Saddam chose to conceal his nuclear program in its entirety. . . [but] [a]ggressive UN inspections after Desert Storm forced Saddam to admit the existence of the program and destroy or surrender compenents of the program.” ( Wait..Saddam was trying to HIDE something from the Inspectors ? Tell me this isn't true !! )

“Iraq unilaterally destroyed is undeclared chemical weapons stockpile in 1991. There are no credible indications that Bagdad resumed production of chemical munitions therafter.” ( No one knows that for certain, because of the shell game Saddam played w/ U.N. Inspectors. )

“With the economy at rock bottom in late 1995 . . . Baghdad [destroyed undeclared stocks of biological weapons] and abandoned its existing BW [biological warfare] program in the belief it constituted a potential embarrassment” which would undercut any ability to lift sanctions. ( More " undeclared " stocks of biological weapons. Iraq wasn't coming clean w/ all the " undeclared " munitions it had , how was ANYONE to know if this really was the last of what they had ??

In spite of exhaustive investigation, ISG found no evidence that Iraq possessed, or was developing BW agent product systems mounted on road vehicles or railway wagons.” ( Again, what of the UNDECLARED stockpiles ? Iraq was charged w/ producing EVERYTHING it had, and yet yrs after the inspections started, would continue to find MORE undeclared items. Since a true account could not be known, it's impossible to say we knew for certain that the WMD stocks or their production methods were TRUELY destroyed. )


It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "



Sorry- all partisan lies. Try again.

Chrisisall

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Friday, June 13, 2008 6:00 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:


All I asked for was ONE lie, and you can't even do that. Amazing.


AU, how about I turn that around for a second?
What TRUTH has Bush ever spoken? I bet you can't name ONE (apart from correctly identifying people in the government).

Not ONEisall

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Friday, June 13, 2008 6:06 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

The United States disappeared years ago and no one noticed. Corporations run the sham and you all babble about nothing
At last! A kindred spirit! What I find so bemusing is that anti-government folks will run screaming from government and straight into the arms of the monster behind it.

---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.

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