REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

SignyM's Ideas for improving America...

POSTED BY: GEEZER
UPDATED: Friday, June 20, 2008 19:33
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Tuesday, June 17, 2008 1:56 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


...need their own thread for discussion.

Here they are.

Quote:

The FIRST thing I think we need to do is recognize that we have more in common with the Honduran shirt-maker than we do with Sam Walton or Bill Gates. Once we recognize that, we’ll stop trying so hard to export our brand of rapacious monopolism. So, specifically…

We need to get our individual and governmental finances in order. Because our government priorities are so out-of-whack it’s almost impossible to tackle individual finances until the government finances are taken care of.
First:
1) Get out of Iraq NOW I know that Iraq needs rebuilding and needs to be decentralized, and I know that we busted it so we should fix it but the reality is we can’t. We’re tapped out. Since both the EU and China have an interest in seeing Iraq start to pump oil, they should be able to pitch in and help. They probably would, if they knew we were serious about leaving.

2) W/draw our troops from the several hundred or so meaningless installations where they currently reside, like Okinawa and Germany. Do we really HAVE to be everywhere in the world like Big Brother?

3)Stop meddling in foreign governments because we think they’re some sort of “-ist” or another. I know its tough to let go of that security blanket, but our REAL interests should be prosperity, transparency, empowerment, education, and stability. It’s the opposite- poverty, secrecy, tyranny, ignorance and riot- that are our REAL enemies.

4)Raise income tax rates on the top 1% to 40%. (It’s nominally 38% now, but the ultra-wealthy are only taxed at 33% due to various loopholes, while the moderately wealthy actually pay the full 38%).

5)Close corporate tax loopholes.

6)Eliminate corporate personhood, and eliminate their “right” to privacy and “free speech”. Free speech should be exactly that: FREE. The minute you pay someone, it becomes advertising and should have the same truth-in-advert requirements as any other advert.

7)Eliminate pork-barrel legislation. We have plenty of REAL work to do without making shit up.

8)Provide government-funded, single-payer universal health care. Health care is a big drain on our economy; our manufacturing is less competitive because we’re allowing a single segment of the economy (insurances) to bleed everyone else dry.

9)Raise the Federal minimum wage to something that could actually support a person. The reason WHY some people are so strapped is because they simply don’t have enough money.

10)At the same time, conduct an anti-consumption campaign. People should be able to make enough money working to provide for the basics: Food, housing, transportation. People DON”T need big-screen TVs, the latest iPhone, or expensive cars if they can’t afford ‘em. Somewhere, that idea has gotten lost. A wealthy lifestyle is not a birthright.

11)Allow US labor unions to support labor unions abroad, and duck out NAFTA, CAFTA, and GATT.

12) Start healing our inner cities with jobs and good schools. Many people in the inner cities are growing up with PTSD because of household and neighborhood violence.

13) Decriminalize many drugs, end the so-called "War on drugs" and make enough money avilable to provide rehab for everyone who wants it, and decent mental health services for the vets (and other lunatics) who roam our streets.

14) Get serious about securing our borders. There's no reason why WE have to serve as the overflow and relief valve for nations that are corrupt and impoverished.





"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Tuesday, June 17, 2008 2:22 PM

SERGEANTX


I'm on board with all except for #8 and #9. Nationalizing health care will simply replace a government supported cartel with a government managed monopoly. Not sure we'd see improvement in balance. I've never understood why so many people take minimum wage initiatives seriously. I can't get past the basic illogic of the concept.

But those really aren't a big deal, and many of the other the points are dead on. You got my vote Signym (unless you're up against Ron Paul )

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Tuesday, June 17, 2008 3:21 PM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


I agree with most of your points. Good job.

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Tuesday, June 17, 2008 6:31 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


I'd like to see some kind of program aimed at improving and repairing our infrastructure, other than "more toll roads!"

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Tuesday, June 17, 2008 9:22 PM

CITIZEN


Hmm, that one rather backfired on you didn't it Geez...



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Wednesday, June 18, 2008 2:43 AM

ARCLIGHT


I have more in common with Sam Walton & Bill Gates and so do you.

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Wednesday, June 18, 2008 2:47 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
...need their own thread for discussion.


They've all been discussed and generally dismissed.

You don't need an expansive list...just say he wants to make America an isolationist collection of drug addicted Communists with no economic, political, or military strength.

In other words...Vote Obama!

H

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Wednesday, June 18, 2008 2:50 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:
Hmm, that one rather backfired on you didn't it Geez...



Not really. I agree with some, and disagree with others. Doing a bit of research right now.


"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Wednesday, June 18, 2008 4:17 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


1) Get out of Iraq NOW

Soon would be nice. Not sure that the EU and China could cooperate on Iraq, and doubt the EU would want to go it alone. China could probably do it, because they don't have a committment to human rights to keep them from instilling fear and obedience in the populace. Projecting power that far from home might be a problem for them.

2) W/draw our troops from the several hundred or so meaningless installations where they currently reside, like Okinawa and Germany.

Probably some could be cut back. Others support treaty agreements and treaty organizations we belong to like NATO, SEATO, the UN, etc. Those can't be dropped unilaterally.

3)Stop meddling in foreign governments because we think they’re some sort of “-ist” or another.

Depends on the "-ist", and what they want to do with it. If they keep it at home, fine. If they try to send it where it's not wanted, maybe a bit of meddling, particularly as part of the treaty organizations mentioned above, could be in order.

4)Raise income tax rates on the top 1% to 40%.

Back-of-envelope, this only increases the take by $20 billion. Dumping deductions would be more effective, but politically that's a non-starter. Might try raising the income cap on SSI contributions.

BTW, the top 1% already pay 40% of all income tax. the top 50% pay almost 100% of all income tax.

5)Close corporate tax loopholes.

Everyone has a different take on what's 'loopholes' and what's good economic policy. careful thought is required, not an ax. Also consider this will raise the price of goods and services to the consumer.

7)Eliminate pork-barrel legislation.

Like 'loopholes', who defines pork-barrel? Some is obvious, some not so much.

8)Provide government-funded, single-payer universal health care.

Have to figure out how to pay for this, what levels of service to provide, etc. How do you assure that enough doctors and hospitals accept these patients rather than more lucrative patients with private insurance or funds?

9)Raise the Federal minimum wage to something that could actually support a person.

Prices of goods and services will go up to pay those higher wages. Must figure this in.

10)At the same time, conduct an anti-consumption campaign. People DON”T need big-screen TVs, the latest iPhone, or expensive cars if they can’t afford ‘em.

But the people who make, sell, and service those things need to work. If folks only buy what they need, lots of other folks will be out of work.

12) Start healing our inner cities with jobs and good schools.

Where do the money and jobs come from?

13) Decriminalize many drugs, end the so-called "War on drugs" and make enough money avilable to provide rehab for everyone who wants it, and decent mental health services for the vets (and other lunatics) who roam our streets.
Seems reasonable. The 'drug war' uses up a lot of bucks. Might also consider releasing those in prison for non-violent drug offenses.

14) Get serious about securing our borders.
Okay. What should we do about the overflow that's already here?


"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Wednesday, June 18, 2008 7:31 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:

10)At the same time, conduct an anti-consumption campaign. People DON”T need big-screen TVs, the latest iPhone, or expensive cars if they can’t afford ‘em.

But the people who make, sell, and service those things need to work. If folks only buy what they need, lots of other folks will be out of work.




Perpetuating the culture of debt by encouraging them to live far beyond their means is not the way to keep the economy afloat, not in the long-term, at least.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, June 18, 2008 8:38 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:


You don't need an expansive list...just say he wants to make America an isolationist collection of drug addicted Communists with no economic, political, or military strength.

In other words...Vote Obama!



Of course! And everyone knows that the day after the inauguration, Obama would scrap the Constitution and switch us over to a communist system, and he'd personally go around mainlining people with smack...

Your hyperbolic scenarios are just such utter and complete bullshit, Zero. If I applied the same approach, it would look like this:

"just say McCain wants to make America an imperialist collection of prescription drug addicted Fascists with no economic, political, or military strength, because they left it all in Iraq when McCain did what he does best - surrender to the enemy! "

You're going to say that's a low blow, but it's been brought up by someone else already - in this race, exactly ONE candidate has actually surrendered to the enemy and denounced his country on television - and it wasn't Obama!

So if you're going purely on his track record, McCain is the more likely to surrender, AND the more likely to flip-flop on his positions to whatever is most convenient at any given moment...

Just sayin'.


Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia

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Wednesday, June 18, 2008 10:15 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
So if you're going purely on his track record,


Hmm...I've been reading McCain's story. He was a badass (check out the video of McCain escaping death on the carrier). So if you want to judge his track record by what happened in Vietnam...maybe you should find out what happened to him.
Quote:


McCain is the more likely to surrender,


It was Oct 26, 1967. He was on his 23rd mission...in case you missed it, that means that 22 times prior to this he flew into harms way in service to his country. He did this because he didn't surrender to the temptation to cash in on his connections...his dad was the Commander of all US Pacific forces.

He was shot down by a missile the size of a telephone pole. Refusing to surrender (to death) he ejected.

He landed in a lake near Hanoi...broken leg and arm. He was surrounded by Vietnamese who took him prisoner. He never got the chance to surrender...a rifle butt to the head was offered in lieu of a request that he voluntarily place himself into North Vietnamese custody.

He was badly injured and given additional beatings and was informed that until he confessed his crimes he would not receive medical care. When he refused he was left to die and it was several days before they realized his family connections and gave him medical care. You'll note that few amputees came back from captivity because Vietnamese policy was to deny medical care to injured POWs...they tended to die without it. It should be noted that his broken arm was never treated.

Then two years of solitary confinement. Two years.

When asked if he wanted to go home he said, "No."
Quote:


AND the more likely to flip-flop on his positions to whatever is most convenient at any given moment...


When asked if he wanted to go home he said, "No." He was asked again...and again...and again...always "no."

He was tortured, beaten, called really bad names, and screamed at in Vietnamese (if its happened to you...you know what I mean). This went on for days and days reinjuring his leg and arm. Day and night pain without end. Finally he signed the statement that they wrote for him. He never signed a statement that he wrote himself.

After that he was tortured 3-4 times per week. Usually for refusing to sign any more statements, or refusing to appear on TV, or for refusing to meet with 'peace delegations', or for communicating with other prisoners, or for treating his guards with disrespect, or because it was raining, or because it was not raining, and so on.

Letters from home...a couple in five years. Red cross packages...a couple over five long years.

He refused to be released until the others were released with him and that happened five long years later. Afterwards he said: "I had a lot of time to think over there, and came to the conclusion that one of the most important things in life—along with a man's family—is to make some contribution to his country."

I note for the record that the story of his captivity is just one small part of a lifetime dedicated to the service of his nation. While he and I disagree on many things and I have yet to decide if I'll give him my vote for President...I do respect his service, his sacrifice, and his track record...a record Senator Obama can't really match.

H

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Wednesday, June 18, 2008 10:49 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
When asked if he wanted to go home he said, "No."
...
When asked if he wanted to go home he said, "No." He was asked again...and again...and again...always "no."

So given the choice between torture and returning to America, John McCain chose torture?

Why does John McCain hate America?



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Wednesday, June 18, 2008 10:54 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:
Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
When asked if he wanted to go home he said, "No."
...
When asked if he wanted to go home he said, "No." He was asked again...and again...and again...always "no."

So given the choice between torture and returning to America, John McCain chose torture?

Why does John McCain hate America?


BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

SIGNY HAS MY VOTE.

Constituent Chrisisall

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Wednesday, June 18, 2008 11:08 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


"Of course! And everyone knows that the day after the inauguration, Obama would scrap the Constitution and switch us over to a communist system, and he'd personally go around mainlining people with smack..."

But didn't you know ??? Obama is a Muslim terrorist ! You just CAN'T be into jihad and communism at the same time ! It just doesn't work. It's like wearing stripes and polka dots at the same time.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Wednesday, June 18, 2008 12:24 PM

WHODIED



And why bother scrapping the constitution when you can simply beef up the Patriot Act and sidestep it.

Toss on a rider to haul those unruly 'liberal' justices back in line...

--WhoDied


_______________________

We are weak. The powerful control everything... except our will to choose. Heroes don't accept the way the world is.


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Wednesday, June 18, 2008 12:56 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

While he and I disagree on many things and I have yet to decide if I'll give him my vote for President...


Bet I can guess which way you're leaning, though. ;)

I realize my statements were over the top hyperbole; they were intended as such in an effort to illustrate the point: If you're going to make random bullshit claims about Obama, be prepared to have crazy claims made about McCain as well.

So you admit McCain signed a statement denouncing his country. Why on earth would he do that? Surely not because he was tortured; as the Bush camp has said, torture gets you THE TRUTH. By this rationale, McCain actually believed that America's involvement in Viet Nam was illegal and immoral. It simply doesn't compute to say that Americans, when tortured, will lie, but anyone else would tell you the truth.

The flip-flops I referred to concern his tenure in the US Senate. He's flip-flopped more times than Kennedy and Kerry combined - but you don't want to know about that... Hell, he even voted against the campaign finance bill that bore his name! Seems he was for it before he was against it. Sounds familiar, right?

So if Kerry was a flip-flop (and also a decorated Viet Nam vet who was dragged through the mud by Bush & Rove - men who never served a day in combat in their lives), then McCain is also a flip-flop.

In all honesty, I have the utmost respect for McCain's military service. He could have gotten out of prison at almost any time; his dad had the juice to make it happen. That he refused is a testament to that young man's will. I wonder where that will has gone... When I look at McCain now, all I can see is someone who sold his soul to the New Republican Machine. All of the excesses he used to be against, he's now for; all the honorable things he used to be for, he's now against. What the hell did the party do to that poor man?

Whatever it was, it's left him unfit to lead this nation. Time, politics, and dirty tricks have left him a pale ghost of the man he used to be.




Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia

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Wednesday, June 18, 2008 3:26 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Meanwhile, back to your regularly-scheduled thread...

Signy's list of things to improve America.

Quote:


They've all been discussed and generally dismissed.



They have? Well, then... I guess our work is done. America is absolutely perfect, and not one single thing could possibly be improved upon. Hallelujah!

So, "Hero", what are your big plans for making a contribution to this great nation? Or is "good enough" good enough for you, and you have nothing to contribute?




Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia

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Wednesday, June 18, 2008 4:25 PM

VETERAN

Don't squat with your spurs on.


Like more than half of these. But some of these are unrealistic. We can't just duck out of treaties even if they are unfavorable to us.

It would be ironic if we could lure China into Iraq. Think they'd find Iraqis a little harder to supress than Tibetans? As you said the downside is they might just succeed.

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Thursday, June 19, 2008 1:53 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


1 - nope. Get the job done, then gradually withdraw the troops. A sudden extraction would be a disaster
2 - Gotta partially agree here. Don't see the reason to continually fight the cold war once the cold war is over. A review of the legitimacy of such bases is long over due.
3 - I think we do far more good than most folks know by 'meddling'. We're not the only ones who have interest beyond their own borders.
4 - Lower taxes, if anything. Raising taxes punishes the activity we're hoping to encourage.
5 - Sounds nice, but what loopholes are we really talking about here ?
6 - not sure that's all that much an issue to even comment on
7- One Congressman's essential service is another's pork barrel spending. Good luck w/ that one.
8- Keep the Gov't OUT of healthcare. Drop the meddling, watch competition drive prices down.
9- The minimum wage is for those who have little to no job skills. It's not meant to raise a family on, or even insure 1 person gets wealthy. Raising the min wage would only put more out of work.
10 - People don't need to be told NOT to spend. We live in a free society. Freedom of choice could be extended to NOT choose, but we sure as hell don't need a federal program set up on telling us how NOT to conduct our lives.
11 - Allow labor unions to wither on the vine and die.
12 - Inner cities are being reclaimed by people wanting to revive sections at a time. The PRIVATE route is showing to be by far more successful than mandating Gov't recovery areas.
13 - The 'war on drugs' has been used to strip more people of their rights than a 1000 U.S. detention camps for legalized Japanese citizens. It's time to decriminalize many drugs and stop acting as a shill for the alcohol lobbies.
14 - Said it before, and it bears repeating. You got a leak in anything, be it a boat or your border, the smartest thing to do is FIX THE LEAK ! You can worry about what to do w/ the water already in your boat after you've slowed / stopped the water from coming in.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Thursday, June 19, 2008 2:22 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:
So given the choice between torture and returning to America, John McCain chose torture?

Why does John McCain hate America?


He was following military POW regulations against accepting gifts or special treatment. The offer of early release was associated with making statements of support for the North Vietnamese or as part of a gesture to a 'peace delegation' or in his case a propaganda tool because his father was the CinC Pacific.

H

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Thursday, June 19, 2008 2:29 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:
Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
When asked if he wanted to go home he said, "No."
...
When asked if he wanted to go home he said, "No." He was asked again...and again...and again...always "no."

So given the choice between torture and returning to America, John McCain chose torture?

Why does John McCain hate America?




He LOVES America that much, that he'd choose staying w/ his men and enduring the hardships of being a POW rather than to be used as a tool by the NVA, to be used as a propaganda puppet, like Jane (slut ) Fonda (whore ) was.

That's odd, citizen. I didn't know you were 1/2 French.



It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Thursday, June 19, 2008 2:37 AM

JONGSSTRAW



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Thursday, June 19, 2008 2:45 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Bet I can guess which way you're leaning, though. ;)


I'm a Republican, not a Democrat. I didn't support Bush until I went to a rally right before convention.

Unlike Democrats, I require my candidates to win my vote. If they fail...as Bob Dole did in 1996, I go to the polls and simply do not vote for any candidate. I also did this for last years school levy...but I voted against the damn library...last thing we need is more readers...
Quote:


So you admit McCain signed a statement denouncing his country. Why on earth would he do that?


His statement was not translated properly into English. He never denounced his country, the statement was limited to denouncing the "brown" war. He thinks they meant dirty but the guy who wrote it spoke poor english.

He admits that after days of torture, no sleep, no food, and the deliberate re-injury of his broken leg and arm...his spirit was broken. After he signed the statement he was allowed a couple weeks rest and recovery. They came back seeking a better statement, he refused, it all started again and lasted years...but he never again broke under torture. He says that everyone breaks under torture, for some, like him, they become stronger after...others become much weaker. He sees no shame in either.

I also note for the record that the Vietnamese used some serious torture...all based on physical suffering. In contrast our "aggressive interrogation" is all psychological and carefully monitored, medical care is never denied. For example...in Vietnam they'd drown you in a bucket of water, sometimes going too far and killing the subject...in Gitmo they "simulate" drowing with no real physical risk.

H

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Thursday, June 19, 2008 5:22 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
That's odd, citizen. I didn't know you were 1/2 French.

I'm not, I was just twisting what Hero said the way he twists what others say, but if that makes me 1/2 French, we're speaking the same language Jacque :p



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Thursday, June 19, 2008 7:50 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:
Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
When asked if he wanted to go home he said, "No."
...
When asked if he wanted to go home he said, "No." He was asked again...and again...and again...always "no."

So given the choice between torture and returning to America, John McCain chose torture?

Why does John McCain hate America?







He LOVES America that much, that he'd choose staying w/ his men and enduring the hardships of being a POW rather than to be used as a tool by the NVA, to be used as a propaganda puppet, like Jane (slut ) Fonda (whore ) was.

That's odd, citizen. I didn't know you were 1/2 French.





That's odd, AwwwCrapper. I didn't know you were 3/4 Nazi. Oh, wait - yes I did!

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia

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Thursday, June 19, 2008 8:19 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
That's odd, AwwwCrapper. I didn't know you were 3/4 Nazi. Oh, wait - yes I did!


You call him a Nazi, I call you a Commie, then you call me a fascist, and AU calls Signy an Anarchist. Can't we find common ground?

Maybe we need to get together and say bad things about PirateNews and Fox TV execs.

And why is it always Nazi or Commie? Lets broaden our perspective a bit ya two-bit fracking Roundhead.

H

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Thursday, June 19, 2008 9:24 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
And why is it always Nazi or Commie? Lets broaden our perspective a bit ya two-bit fracking Roundhead.

Go stick your head in a jar you festering melodious Kritocrat.



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Thursday, June 19, 2008 1:07 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
That's odd, AwwwCrapper. I didn't know you were 3/4 Nazi. Oh, wait - yes I did!


You call him a Nazi, I call you a Commie, then you call me a fascist, and AU calls Signy an Anarchist. Can't we find common ground?

Maybe we need to get together and say bad things about PirateNews and Fox TV execs.

And why is it always Nazi or Commie? Lets broaden our perspective a bit ya two-bit fracking Roundhead.

H



Okay, that was funny. Good to see you've still got a sense of humor. However...

Quote:


I'm a Republican, not a Democrat.



Careful - 'Rappy might say you're putting party ahead of country! :)



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Thursday, June 19, 2008 2:33 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
That's odd, citizen. I didn't know you were 1/2 French.

I'm not, I was just twisting what Hero said the way he twists what others say, but if that makes me 1/2 French, we're speaking the same language Jacque :p




I'm glad you have a sense of humor. Otherwise, my 'french' comment might have been more serious than I had intended.




It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Thursday, June 19, 2008 3:26 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Go stick your head in a jar you festering melodious Kritocrat.



Did you just call Hero a kitty-cat?

:)

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia

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Thursday, June 19, 2008 11:29 PM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
I'm glad you have a sense of humor. Otherwise, my 'french' comment might have been more serious than I had intended.

Why do you think I have this OUTRAGOUS accent Raptor Silly King and all your KAAA-NIGITS!

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Thursday, June 19, 2008 11:30 PM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Did you just call Hero a kitty-cat?

A Kritocracy is a form of government



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Friday, June 20, 2008 2:43 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
...need their own thread for discussion.


They've all been discussed and generally dismissed.

You don't need an expansive list...just say he wants to make America an isolationist collection of drug addicted Communists with no economic, political, or military strength.

In other words...Vote Obama!

H



That's a big fat NO on Obama....

but the real reason I'm posting here.....

Signy is a dude? Are you serious? I always thought Signy was a girl.

Come to think of it, I always assumed you were too Rue. Am I wrong on both counts?

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Friday, June 20, 2008 3:40 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
I always thought Signy was a girl.


Too many jokes...must...resist...

His mother thought the same thing.

He was never sure himself.

He gets that alot (at the gym).

He is a girl.

He's both.

He's gotta purdy mouth.

His ability to balance in four-inch stilettos...

MUST...stop...

That's because he's the 'girl' in his homosexual marriage.

The dresses throw a lot of people off.

Its his man-boobs.

He does have good fashion sense.

Just because a man likes pink lace and broadway musicals does not mean...

He's terrible at math.

He likes horses too much.

He likes Hanna Montana for her musical talent and fashion sense.

You should see him throw.

You should see him hit.

You should see him suck...ok...thats enough.

Sorry...could not resist.

H

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Friday, June 20, 2008 3:43 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Did you just call Hero a kitty-cat?

A Kritocracy is a form of government



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.



See? Ya made me go an' look it up...

Wowzer; I'd never heard of that. Or if I'd heard, I was reeling from a hangover in one of my 7am Consitutional Law classes, and it whizzed right by me.



Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia

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Friday, June 20, 2008 3:46 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:
A Kritocracy is a form of government



A Kritocracy is government by Judges. This form of government has strong roots...you'll recall that the Bible talks about Isreal being ruled by a series of Judges. Judgements are based upon the judge's opinion.

Similar is the Kritarchy, which is also government by judges. In this case the judges forgo their personal opinions and decided cases based upon the application of natural law.

H

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Friday, June 20, 2008 3:48 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


LOL... you know, normally Hero I would just call you out for being the posterior orifice I believe you to be, but I think you was jus messin' and that was pretty funny. I don't take you to be the type to personally attack anyone for nothing but the pleasure in being mean about it....

Didn't mean nothing by it Signy or Rue. I read my post again and it sounded sort of mean. Just my take on things, and I'll be the first to admit that may say more about me than it does either of you.

Here's hoping you both do love America. Don't want to argue that point with ya. Just the means of getting to that end that we differ on.....



oh....

and, "He's gotta purdy mouth.".... lolz.... mahap that say more about you Hero than you've ever lead on before. Sure you don't wanna make like Nip/Tuck on there feller and head on down to beeeautiful Los Angeles now that the laws been changed in them parts?

I'm my biggest fan.

Dur...



"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Friday, June 20, 2008 4:20 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:

Quote:


I'm a Republican, not a Democrat.



Careful - 'Rappy might say you're putting party ahead of country! :)





Indeed I might! Ya just never know.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Friday, June 20, 2008 6:09 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Signy is a dude? Are you serious? I always thought Signy was a girl.
SignyM is a cynical woman in a position of power. heh heh heh

---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.

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Friday, June 20, 2008 12:45 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Indeed I might! Ya just never know.



Well, yeah... I pretty much do know...




Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia

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Friday, June 20, 2008 3:10 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


You THINK you know, I doubt if you really do.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Friday, June 20, 2008 3:54 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


I think we can all see the facts pretty clearly, Rappy.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Friday, June 20, 2008 4:15 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


So, have we finally gotten past the idiots who keep insisting torture is good ?

Going once, going twice ...

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Friday, June 20, 2008 6:29 PM

SERGEANTX


Torture builds character.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Friday, June 20, 2008 7:33 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


The whole "torture is good because these people are bad" debate puts me in mind of the wonderful film A Man For All Seasons, based upon the life of Sir Thomas More, who was beheaded for not accepting King Henry VIII's divorce and marriage to Anne Boleyn:

Quote:

William Roper: So, now you give the Devil the benefit of law!

Sir Thomas More: Yes! What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?

William Roper: Yes, I'd cut down every law in England to do that!

Sir Thomas More: Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man's laws, not God's! And if you cut them down, and you're just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!



You may not like these people. These people - some of them, at least - may even wish to do you harm. But if you are willing to do away with the rule of law to do what you want to them, it says as much about your lack of humanity as it does theirs, and it says a damned sight more about your lack of belief in your system of laws and the rule of law.

The cleric behind the '93 WTC bombing (Sheikh Paula Abdul Top-Ramen? ) was given the benefit of the rule of law. Timothy McVeigh was given the benefit of the rule of law. Ted Koczynski was given the benefit of the rule of law. The Nazis, at the Nuremburg trials, were given the benefit of the rule of law. It's the position of arch-conservative William Kristol that even Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden are deserving of the benefit of the rule of law.

But now it's the position of this nation that these people held in Guantanamo Bay aren't worthy of the rule of law. If they are so dastardly, so dangerous, then prove it, in court, and without torture. If they're worth torturing, they should at least be worth a fair trial. Otherwise it is you who risks becoming less than human by being so much less than humane.

Mike

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