Fashion Police ? Actually... Yes. by Fremdfirma

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Fashion Police ? Actually... Yes.

POSTED BY: FREMDFIRMA
UPDATED: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 11:11
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Thursday, July 10, 2008 10:43 AM

This is asinine and idiotic.

Don't they have anything BETTER to do with their time than arbitrarily fuck with us ?

BTW, I'm giving a 10% fare discount to anyone WITH baggy pants today as a gesture of solidarity, even though I personally hate the fashion and think it looks stupid.

Fuck the fashion police.

Original URL-
http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080708/NEWS06/307080009

Flint residents now have to watch their butts because Police Chief David Dicks is on the lookout.

Dicks, who took over the department last month on an interim basis, announced that his officers would start arresting people wearing saggy pants that expose skivvies, boxer shorts or bare bottoms.

"Some people call it a fad," Dicks told the Free Press this week while patrolling the streets of Flint. "But I believe it's a national nuisance. It is indecent and thus it is indecent exposure, which has been on the books for years."

On June 27, the chief issued a departmental memorandum telling officers: "This immoral self expression goes beyond freedom of expression."

The crime, he says, is disorderly conduct or indecent exposure, both misdemeanors punishable by 93 days to a year in jail and/or fines up to $500.

Dicks, 41, broke down his interpretation of the laws as such: Pants pulled completely below the buttocks with underwear showing is disorderly conduct; saggy pants with skin of the buttocks showing is indecent exposure, and saggy pants, not completely below the buttocks, with underwear exposed results in a warning.

The American Civil Liberties Union is already scrutinizing the enforcement, something Dicks fully expected. But he said he's not backing down until the pants stop falling down.

Still, as of Tuesday, no one had been arrested for saggy pants.

"We want to put the word out before we take aggressive action," he said.

On Monday, a Free Press reporter and videographer rode with the chief as he confronted teens sporting the sag look. He issued verbal warnings to several people and said the style also gives police probable cause to search those wearing no-rise jeans.

As he drove through Flint's north and east sides, he flipped on the flashing lights of his departmental-issued Chevy Tahoe as he stopped a shirtless young man walking in the streets with saggy shorts and exposed boxers.

"Did you hear about the law?" the chief asked.

"I heard about it the other day," the man responded.

"I'm gonna issue a warning. I need you to get a belt because it's indecent exposure," the chief said to the twentysomething man on Delaware and N. Franklin.

During another stop, Dicks marveled at the steps a man took to wear his pants low.

"This guy had a belt on but he'd rather have his belt on around his thighs than above his waist," he said. "If no one tells him it's against the law, he'll never know."

Different opinions
Flint is often called one of the most violent cities in America, however in recent years, it has seen a drop in homicides.

A city of about 120,000, dwindling jobs and a dwindling population has left an aging, retired sector, older blue collar workers, a few middle-age professionals and youths. And depending on who you talk to about sagging, those within each generation don't necessarily put their pants on the same way.

"If I pay for my pants, I should be able to wear them how I want to," said 16-year-old Montez Phifer, taking a break from playing hoops in the city Monday. "Everyone thinks it's gangster, but it's a fashion. Nothing more."

His friend, Lorenzo Johnson, 14, said his mother warned him about the chief's stance on sagging.

"I pulled them up to respect her," he said. "When she left I pulled them back down."

Another friend Senita Abrams, 18, said: "I think it's cute when boys sag."

Down the street, 32-year-old Saneka Nichols weighed in.

"The sagging is out of control," she said. "It went from a style to a disruption. The chief has a good idea. I'm not saying people should go to jail, but maybe they should do community service.

"If you don't want to pick up your pants, pick up for the neighborhood. How's that sound?"

Greg Gibbs, a lawyer and chair of the ACLU Flint chapter, said the crackdown sounds like a "vast waste of resources."

"We are concerned that the enforcement of the chief's memo may lead to some constitutional violations on a case-by-case basis due to the failure of his memo to define what constitutes indecent exposure," Gibbs said. "From a First Amendment standpoint, I still have to crack the books to find out what the courts have said on this issue."

Flint's not the first city to take a look at policing the exposure of underwear. Pontiac, Auburn Hills, Atlanta and cities across the nation have debated the issue. But Dicks makes the assertion that wearing pants below the waist can give police probable cause to search saggers for other crimes, such as weapon and drug possession. He said because sagging is a crime, it presents probable cause for police to search saggers.

The sagging style
Dan Henson knows all about the style of sagging. He's a manager at Mr. Alan's clothing store in Hamtramck and a former sagger himself. He said customers frequently come in to buy large-fitting pants that sag.

"I stopped when I was around 21," he said of wearing his pants low. "But this style has been around for a long time. I think the rap videos and music industry have a lot to do with it. I don't think this style is going anywhere."

Michigan ACLU Executive Director Kary Moss said race could become an issue if the chief aggressively enforces the law.

"We will wait and see if this new policy is enforced before we decide to take action.," she said in a statement. "We will be concerned if the policy disproportionately affects African Americans."

Dicks also scoffed at any suggestions that any enforcement unfairly targets black men and teens.

"This is not a black issue. This is an issue that's all walks of life," said Dicks, who is black. "Many people from different ethnic backgrounds and races are doing this fad."

Contact BEN SCHMITT at 313-223-4296 or bcschmitt@freepress.com.

Oh, and PS. - The locals have about had it with Dicks, and this is kind of a last straw thing, since his officers cannot be trusted to protect the community but instead victimize it with petty bullshit like this... he'll be looking for a new job soon.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Thursday, July 10, 2008 11:00 AM

SIGMANUNKI

Though in general this is, as you say, asinine, I'm going to have to agree with this guy that exposed bottoms is indecent exposure. That is, if the bottom is actually exposed. After all, if people got arrested for showing a little crack, who would fix the plumbing?

----
I am on The Original List (twice). We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

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Thursday, July 10, 2008 5:17 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

Let's never mind my personal stance on nudity, which is: Who cares? Certainly there are people I don't want to see naked, but as Cy Tolliver might say, If it offends my delicate sensibilities, I can best help myself by turning the f*ck away.

But we're not talking about nudity, are we? We're talking about hints of skin and underwear. I doubt that anyone hanging their pants low in the 'sagging' fashion shows the world anything more explicit than a pretty young thing in a string bikini would show on the beach. We don't arrest pretty young things in string bikinis, do we?

Fact is, unless a man's tool is hanging out for all to see, I'm hard pressed to imagine the offense being labeled as indecent exposure, and certainly not 'disorderly conduct.'

Most troubling is the fact that the Chief views the wearing of saggy pants as 'probable cause' for a search and seizure. WTF? He's trying to give himself free license to search anyone within his 'saggy pant' demographic.

If the Chief were wise, he'd be grateful for the trend of saggy pants. This trend assures him that when young men are either A) incapable of running from the police or B) Forced to hold their pants up, making the handling of a weapon awkward while making an escape.

I am deeply dismayed whenever civil rights are trampled under the guise of public decency.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Thursday, July 10, 2008 5:54 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Chief Dicks is looking for exposed assholes? What is this; the speech from Team America?

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Thursday, July 10, 2008 9:25 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

The joke is on the baggy pants guys, since the "fad" began with homosexual prostitutes in jail, as advertising of availability for buttsex. HA.

I must agree with the police chief on indecent exposure. Can a person walk in public in ONLY their underwear? Altho NY City courts ordered women can walk topless in public parks. Cool.

The loophole in this law enforcement is to wear swimming trunks instead of underwear, since it's not illegal to wear only swimsuits in public.

Speaking of buttcracks, I shot video at a local stuntbike competition. The MC wore his pants in this illegal fashion, which was not attractive at all, except to gay men. The women, however, looked great bent over in their low-rise jeans, thongs and tramp stamps. Here's the video:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8314665275230258082&hl=en

At least Chief Dicks (snicker) isn't like our local sheriff:

Quote:
"Berrong is the Sheriff of Blount County. Nuchols was employed as his secretary. Nuchols was also a friend of Berrong’s wife. Nuchols’ complaint states that she was aware that Berrong was having an affair with a subordinate female employee, and around May 29, 2002, Berrong’s wife asked Nuchols on the telephone whether Berrong and the subordinate female employee had traveled out of town together. Nuchols’ complaint further alleged that the day after the telephone call, Berrong called Nuchols into his office, where two other armed officers were present, and presented her with a taped recording of her conversation with Berrong’s wife. Berrong then fired Nuchols, yelling '[y]our ass is fired, you get out of here!' his reason being that, '[y]ou called my wife.' Nuchols further alleged that Berrong then threatened to burn her house down, set her dog on fire, and kill everyone in her family. Berrong then repeated the threat again, telling Nuchols that he would not hire someone to do it, but would carry out the threats himself. Chief Deputy Tony Crisp, who was also in the office, then allegedly said to Nuchols, 'Jo, this conversation never happened, do you understand me?'”
-United Stated Court of Appeals, Sixth Circuit, Nuchols v. Berrong, No. 04-5645, July 11, 2005
http://www.ca6.uscourts.gov/opinions.pdf/05a0586n-06.pdf
http://www.blounttn.net/nucholsappeal.htm

No arrest was made on this death threat, because tape recorders are banned in the "Justice Center".

"You can't stop the signal!"
-Mr Universe, Pirate TV

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Friday, July 11, 2008 1:16 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Frem, all I can think is that Flint must have, like, NO real crimes going on, if the police have time to screw around with crap like this.

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia

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Friday, July 11, 2008 3:59 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Well, it still does, being a poverty-stricken area and all, but a little soundbite history.

At one time, Flint, MI was the murder capitol of the world, in part due to shitloads of asinine restrictions on self-defense, which translate directly into crime and violence any way you slice it.

When I first moved up here, see, I am from ground zero of "The forgotten lands", one of south baltimores ghettos not only ridden with crime and violence, but also subject to so MUCH pollution due to the NIMBY principle and lack of political might, that the whole place is like a superfund site and the lung cancer rate is 600 times the national average, you can literally see the crap collect on your car - ok ?

When city officials were hit with the question of why, they answered, I kid you not, go look it up.. "More people in that area smoke cigarettes" - Gives a WHOLE new spin to tobacco lawsuits, dunnit ?

And I worked security for some of those plants, helping in fact hide their misdeeds, cleaning up the dead birds who'd tried to fly over the plant, and keeping out nosy folk who wanted evidence, not that there were many, given the chance of getting shot versus cancer, they had more immediate things to worry about.

Ergo, imma dead man walking anyway, and no stranger to crime and violence - for me, it was not much different from "home", yes ?

Michigan went right-to-carry, but that wasn't effectively enforced till about two years later, when lawmakers finally ran out of patience with the Flint PD's illegal stonewalling and gamesmanship about it.

And driving a cab in an area gives you a pretty good "street level" perspective, people like to talk, especially poor and desperate folk who'll chatter on to ANYONE who seems willing to listen, except, obviously, the cops.

In the seven months after that, it was an exodus of mass proportions, just about ALL of the lifestyle-choice criminals headed out, many of them to wisconsin, since armed victims are dangerous and they much prefer their prey defanged in advance.

Remember, I KNOW these folk, how they think, and can talk to them on a personal level, especially since some areas I was the ONLY driver willing to pick up, and took quite a few of them to court, or to their PO, hearings and whatnot, and if they were a little short, I'd get em as close as possible and maybe even spare em a mile or two on the cuff, in exchange for what amounted to near-absolute protection from being robbed, anyone who so much as thought about it would get mobbed down by the rest, who NEEDED me to get to the courthouse since no other cabbie would stop down there.

So it really warmed my heart to hear comments from THIS element like...
"Man, I gotta get out, too dangerous around here now, everybody packin a gat and I dun want no cap busted in MY ass, nu-uh man!"

And they left, so many folk left that the place looked like a ghost town for a while, and business was so bad, I decided to move south closer to detroit.

The folks that moved in after, while every bit as poor and desperate, are mostly motivated to crime by necessity (can't pay the power bill without a job, and when nobody's hirin, you do what you gotta, right ?) rather than an intentional lifestyle choice and therefore both less professional, and less violent overall.

As of 2007, homicide in Flint is down 52% and rape is down 36%. Auto theft, assault, and larceny are also down.
The total amount of homicides in Flint in 2007 are some of the lowest in decades.

They like to credit those cameras, but fact is that they put the damn things in the "nice" (i.e. WHITE) neighborhoods to keep the "bad guys" (i.e. NOT White people) out, which is prettymuch how they're used, or peeping in windows hoping for a show... the Flint PD is about as bad as Chicagos, without the cleanup efforts, and seen by the locals as both useless and one more criminal force to deal with.

The REASON those crimes are down is a direct result of both the exodus of the more professional criminal element, and those who remain having this concern about, you know.. getting shot.

The facts of the matter are indisputable.
Right To Carry - Homicide Down 52%
Compare to Washington D.C. and it's own policies.

So now, without so much to do, and with the higher income and more politically influential members of the community (need I mention race again?) seeing the police force as just another gang, now they're busy making shit up as an excuse to appease the particular segment of the community with the most influence over their payroll and budget.

On a lighter note, I got to refuse service to an off-duty cop today - I told him his pants were too tight and conformed to his body in a manner that struck me as indecent, from my perspective.

He got pissed and called dispatch, who put it on the speakerphone and the whole office laughed at him.

I know they're gonna screw with me over it now, but all my paperwork is in order, and it was worth it to me to shoot back at this idiocy in the only way I really can.

Were it not for DWB and this idiotic "War on (some) Drugs", the Flint PD really *WOULDN'T* have anything to do - and most of the community would be glad to see the back of em, to be honest.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Saturday, July 12, 2008 1:58 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Just goes to show, if one township comes up with an idiot idea, others will soon follow.

Original URL -
http://www.news-tribune.net/wierdnews/local_story_164170727.html?keywo
rd=secondarystory

Louisiana town bans saggy pants

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

DELCAMBRE, La. — Sag your britches somewhere else, this Cajun-country town has decided.

Mayor Carol Broussard said he would sign an ordinance the town council approved this week setting penalties of up to six months in jail and a $500 fine for being caught in pants that show undergarments or certain parts of the body.

Broussard said he has nothing against saggy pants but thinks people who wear them should use discretion. “It’s gotten way out of hand out here,” he said.

Albert Roy, the councilman who introduced the ordinance, said he thought the fine was a little steep and should be more in the $25 range, but he still favored the measure.

“I don’t know if it will do any good, but it won’t hurt,” Roy said. “It’s obvious, and anybody with common sense can see your parts when you wear sagging pants.”

Broussard’s advice for people who like their pants to hang low: “Just wear it properly. Cover your vital parts. I mean, if you expose your private parts, you’ll get a fine. If you walk up and your pants drop, you get a fine. They’re better off taking the pants off and just wearing a dress.”

For more info on WHY this shit is such a bad idea...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumptuary_law

-Frem

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Monday, July 21, 2008 10:43 AM

FREMDFIRMA

URL -
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/07/20/ap/strange/main4275915.shtml

It's The Law: No Sagging Pants In Chicago Suburb

LYNWOOD, Ill., Jul. 20, 2008
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(AP) Be careful if you have saggy pants in the south Chicago suburb of Lynwood. Village leaders have passed an ordinance that would levy $25 fines against anyone showing three inches or more of their underwear in public.

Eugene Williams is the mayor of Lynwood. He says young men walk around town half-dressed, keeping major retailers and economic development away. He calls the new law a hot topic.

The American Civil Liberties Union says the ordinance targets young men of color.

Young adults in the village, like 21-year-old Joe Klomes, say the new law infringes on their personal style. He says leaders should instead spend money on making the area look nicer.

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Wednesday, October 21, 2009 9:32 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
he'll be looking for a new job soon.

Ex-Flint police chief pleads guilty to fraud
http://www.freep.com/article/20091014/NEWS06/91014059/1320/Ex-interim-
Flint-police-chief-pleads-guilty-to-fraud

"He faces up to a year in prison and will pay restitution of $46,000."

And gets to wear a nice, baggy orange coverall, not to mention having to hide out in solitary or PC from folk who might wanna have a policy discussion or two with him over his racist bullshit - and yes, black folk can be "racist" even towards their own, never for a minute doubt it, it seems to be a little more common up here in MI than I have seen elsewhere though.

I'm no advocate of "additional sentencing" by setting folk up for abuse within the prison system, but I will submit that being unable to walk the yard in this situation is mostly his own fault and no blame for that should assign to the court.

"Dicks made international news last year when he started urging officers to file disorderly conduct or indecent exposure charges against those whose saggy pants allow too much underwear or their bottoms to show on city streets. The policy eventually died."

And why ?
Because even his officers would not enforce it, everyone defied it, and followed the basic course of HOW to non-violently break an offensive law or system - DO NOT COMPLY, simple as that, do ENOUGH of that, and it falls apart on it's own.

I'll not name the investigators who brought this matter to the court, but yeah, some odd pence of that buck lands here, sure, I won't even deny it.

As stated, he's gonna be lookin for a new job, now.

-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Wednesday, October 21, 2009 10:20 AM

BYTEMITE

Quote:
If the Chief were wise, he'd be grateful for the trend of saggy pants. This trend assures him that when young men are either A) incapable of running from the police or B) Forced to hold their pants up, making the handling of a weapon awkward while making an escape.

Has anyone posted this story yet?

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/regional/brooklyn/so_much_for_packing_um_
rod_jXKO6I6jK3RgVNDNWClDoI

Just checking.

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Wednesday, October 21, 2009 10:23 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Never understood the style... other than it made observing the 'tards easier... both black, white and every other color.

Also, gives new meaning to tightening your belt...lol

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Wednesday, October 21, 2009 11:11 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Meh, if they wanna dress that way, I figure it's their decision - I "dress like a bum" according to my nieces friends, so fashion is pretty relative.

As for the guy in that story - I think arresting him is kinda pointless as he self inflicted quite enough punishment there - in fact NOT arresting him would be a little crueler, cause there goes his street cred and his manhood, heh.

Imma save that story for morons who don't think they need an IWB holster though.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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