REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Taking a Gander at the Goose

POSTED BY: ANTHONYT
UPDATED: Saturday, September 13, 2008 08:28
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 2788
PAGE 1 of 2

Wednesday, September 10, 2008 1:49 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important



Hello,

I caught this story on CNN this morning. "Lipstick on a Pig." The Republicans said it, and it's apparently some kind of expression. (Not one I'd heard used till now, but there's lots of things I haven't heard.)

Now the Dems use it, and the Republicans are crying foul. Are they being unreasonable, or are they right? Is this a veiled attack at Palin, who used the line, "You know what the difference is between a hockey Mom and a Pit Bull? Lipstick."?

What do you think?

--Anthony



McCain camp says 'lipstick on a pig' is trip through the mud
Posted: 06:54 PM ET

From CNN's Rebecca Sinderbrand, Sasha Johnson and Chris Welch

(CNN) — John McCain’s campaign said Tuesday Barack Obama’s reference to “lipstick on a pig” to describe the Republican’s vow to bring change to Washington was offensive language, and a slap at VP nominee Sarah Palin – despite the fact that the Arizona senator himself used the phrase last year to describe a policy proposal of Hillary Clinton’s.

Obama made the remarks at a Virginia campaign stop late Tuesday afternoon. “John McCain says he’s about change too, and so I guess his whole angle is, ‘Watch out George Bush – except for economic policy, health care policy, tax policy, education policy, foreign policy and Karl Rove-style politics – we’re really gonna shake things up in Washington,’” Obama said.

“That’s not change. That’s just calling something the same thing something different. You know you can put lipstick on a pig, but it’s still a pig. You know you can wrap an old fish in a piece of paper called change, it’s still going to stink after eight years. We’ve had enough of the same old thing.”


He then praised both McCain’s “compelling story” and Palin’s “interesting story,” and says his “hat goes off” to anyone who’s looking after five kids — “I’ve got two and they tire Michelle and me out,” and says “that’s why John McCain’s campaign manager [Rick Davis] said this campaign isn’t going to be about issues, this campaign is going to be about personalities.” He added a standard stump speech line, that the campaign wasn’t about “me or John McCain or Sarah Palin or Joe Biden…”

Within minutes, the McCain campaign announced a conference call focused on the remark, which they said was a deliberate reference to Sarah Palin’s line: “You know the difference between a hockey mom and a pit bull? Lipstick.”

In Iowa last October, McCain drew comparisons between Hillary Clinton's current healthcare plan and the one she championed in 1993: "I think they put some lipstick on the pig, but it's still a pig." He used roughly the same line in May, after effectively claiming the Republican nomination.

McCain spokesman Brian Rogers told CNN the campaign saw a “big difference” between the two references: “McCain was referring to a policy proposal. Obama was referring to Governor Sarah Palin. It’s obviously disrespectful and offensive….

Who has been talking about lipstick lately? It was obvious. The crowd went crazy because of it.”



"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, September 10, 2008 2:43 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
I caught this story on CNN this morning. "Lipstick on a Pig." The Republicans said it, and it's apparently some kind of expression.


I've heard the expression. Its more of a rural thing...kinda like saying "tits on a bull".

I think this is not malicious. Its one of those lines that the writers come up with and looks really good on paper so they pass it along and when it gets used...it sounds really bad.

Clearly he is saying you can't dress up bad policy. It sounds like he's saying Sarah Palin is a pig.

One thing this does not sound like is Obama...I've never heard him use down home talk like this. It does sound like the kind of thing Joe Bidon would say (and has said). My guess is this got tossed around behind the scenes from the Bidon camp and got picked up and used accidently in 'off the cuff' coments by big O (he's pretty bad when off the teleprompter).

My guess is it'll break down the following way among voters.

10-20%- wont care
10-20%- will think he was insulting Palin and are ok with that
10-20%- will think it was an honost comment about dressing up bad policy
10-20%- will think he was insulting Palin and take it personally
10-20%- will know he was probably making an innocent comment, but will hold it against him anyway
1-2%- think Obama is being mean, Palin is a pig, that the Republicans planted the comment, and the Democrats are to blame and intend to vote for Ron Paul...assuming they register...cause the death squads are waiting at the polls (at the bake sale table).

Obama is in a bad spot.

If the election were held today it among registered voters it'd be a dead heat with Obama squeaking out a narrow electoral margin.

If held today among likely voters then McCain wins it running away.

Comments like this and the poor showing since...Berlin make it more and more likely that Obama is turning off those folks who are registered but not likely voters. If this trend continues, he will lose and lose badly.

H

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, September 10, 2008 2:50 AM

JONGSSTRAW


OF COURSE it was a slander at Palin. All the listeners there got it! They stood up and cheered mockingly. You think they would have stood up and cheered if it was anything else?

Also, Biden made a LIPSTICK reference yesterday too when he attacked Palin.

So the sequence here is that Palin uses the "lipstick" brilliantly in her speech, and then these two women-haters, Obama & Biden, throw it back at her in an insulting way within a week later. Can't they at least be "original" in their misogyinist rants? They have sunk to new all-time lows.

I'm telling you....Obama has lost it! His campaign is melting down. Is Obama even running against John McCain??? 'Cause it sure looks and sounds like he's running against Sarah Palin, Sean Hannity & Fox News. Very presidential indeed! It's Sarah Palin 24/7 with him, and he's bleeding badly. They really want more of her on TV, interviews, whatever? Well their wish is coming true, and it will of course blow up in their face like their daily shocking & revolting SEXIST slanders are. Are they NAIVE enough to believe she can't handle interviews? That is so sad...for them. She will eat them alive.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, September 10, 2008 2:50 AM

ARCLIGHT


Of course its a jab at Palin. What did you think the little wuss would do now that he is getting a mud hole stomped in his ass by a girl.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, September 10, 2008 3:04 AM

KIRKULES


One of the reasons I have a hard time supporting McCain is because he always whines like a little bitch every time someone says something negative. I'm sure Obama's comment was directed at Plain, but I'm sure she can take it. Not so sure about McCain. Maybe she will have a good influence on McCain and get him to stop whining, but you know " you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear".

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, September 10, 2008 3:16 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by Kirkules:
One of the reasons I have a hard time supporting McCain is because he always whines like a little bitch every time someone says something negative. I'm sure Obama's comment was directed at Plain, but I'm sure she can take it. Not so sure about McCain. Maybe she will have a good influence on McCain and get him to stop whining, but you know " you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear".


True that you cannot do that, but you can defeat The Philistines with the jawbone of an ass.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, September 10, 2008 4:16 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Kirkules:
One of the reasons I have a hard time supporting McCain is because he always whines like a little bitch every time someone says something negative.


One of the reasons I don't support Barrack is that people cry racism every time somebody starts making any headway against him.
http://wcbstv.com/politics/paterson.mccain.palin.2.813646.html

BTW, its not the lipstick part of the comment...its the "pig". Women are taking that as a "weight" comment and are very offended.

H

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, September 10, 2008 4:21 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

"You know what the difference is between a hockey Mom and a Pit Bull? Lipstick."?


Somebody please explain this joke to me. I heard her say it live, I've read about how it was so witty in blogs and news articles, and now it's being mentioned here.

Why is this funny at all?

There's plenty of soccer (hocky) moms I've known in my life that look like pitbulls and for loyalty reasons there's probably quite a few pitbulls I'd rather be rooming with full time than Hockey moms.



"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, September 10, 2008 6:05 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Quote:

"You know what the difference is between a hockey Mom and a Pit Bull? Lipstick."?


Somebody please explain this joke to me. I heard her say it live, I've read about how it was so witty in blogs and news articles, and now it's being mentioned here.

Why is this funny at all?

There's plenty of soccer (hocky) moms I've known in my life that look like pitbulls and for loyalty reasons there's probably quite a few pitbulls I'd rather be rooming with full time than Hockey moms.



"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack





Hello,

The statement (joke) suggests that Hockey Moms are as tough as Pitbulls. That's it. The chuckle comes from the clashing of mental imagery, as Moms are supposed to be soft comforting creatures, and Pitbulls are powerful tenacious creatures. She is saying that Hockey Moms are tough, and hence she is tough, since she is a hockey mom.

--Anthony



"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, September 10, 2008 6:30 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Somebody please explain this joke to me. I heard her say it live, I've read about how it was so witty in blogs and news articles, and now it's being mentioned here.

Why is this funny at all?

There's plenty of soccer (hocky) moms I've known in my life that look like pitbulls and for loyalty reasons there's probably quite a few pitbulls I'd rather be rooming with full time than Hockey moms.

Because she looks like a pit bull wearing lipstick?



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, September 10, 2008 7:02 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


I must have been ruined because I grew up on Def Comedy Jam.

Thank you Russel Simmons for making me not relate to or understand that lame neo-con joke.

Or for understanding the Liberal joke either, which is an offshoot of the neo-con party wrapped in Democratic clothes

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, September 10, 2008 8:08 AM

STORYMARK


Anyone who thinks that was aimed at Pailin either didn't read the whole quote (just going with the Drudge/FOX version), or they'll buy anything they're told.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, September 10, 2008 8:08 AM

HKCAVALIER


Dude, where's my discourse?

This is right up there with Obama "flipping off" Hillary when he was scratching his nose. What, is he vying for the Bevis & Butthead vote? "What a burn, what a cut, stick your finger up your butt!" Obama is perfectly capable of taking a swipe at McCain and has done so and that's what he was doing with that speech. And our own Mr. Sandwich claims he's never heard Obama use what he calls "down home" expressions, and judging from that I can only assume that all he knows of Obama on the stump is what gets played on Hannity. Well, I've never heard Obama call anyone a pig, either. Kinda clashes with his heretofore rather consistent strategy.

Again, what would be the purpose of sneakily calling Palin a pig? It sounded to me, actually, watching the video, like Obama was grasping for a metaphor (something he does more often than some would like; damn him for not parroting talking points all day long!)--a metaphor, let's remember, to describe the warmed over Bush policies McCain is offering. I will stand corrected if there is video of him using the "lipstick on a pig" line anywhere else.

But he didn't and won't:



HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, September 10, 2008 8:15 AM

HKCAVALIER


Ooh, ooh! Now McCain is taking a swipe at Palin too!!! How dare he???



HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, September 10, 2008 8:30 AM

JONGSSTRAW


What about the Biden "lipstick" reference to Palin yesterday? “There’s no way you can dress up that record, even with a lot of lipstick,” Not as offensive as Obama's stupidity( hey, I saw the whole incident leading up to it and the reaction after ), but just as grossly sexist. "Lipstick" was the attack word of the day. Two GREAT STATESMEN, and all they can do is hurl insults at Palin? Pretty fucking pathetic!

By the way who is Obama running against for President?..........

Sarah Palin ???
Sean Hannity ???
Fox News ???

That's all he talks about anymore. He's the LEAST Presidential fellow I've ever seen. Completely fucking OBSSESSED with little 'ole Fox News. I guess being hyped 24 hours a day on CNN & MSNBC & the NETWORKS isn't good enough for him. He's gone to war with Fox News and Hannity, actually elevating their status. The sad truth is that he blew the O'Reilly interview badly. He looked very un-Presidential. He should have called Al Sharpton on how to handle O'Reilly. It was really disappointing and amazing to see Obama squirm and cry for his mommy, and beg Bill for his understanding of his radical associations and socialist policies.

That's the way I see it, and that's the way I believe it. You disagee?...Swell!

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, September 10, 2008 8:33 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
One of the reasons I don't support Barrack is that people cry racism every time somebody starts making any headway against him.
http://wcbstv.com/politics/paterson.mccain.palin.2.813646.html


So you don't support Palin because every time somebody starts making any headway against her people cry Sexism, right...



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, September 10, 2008 8:41 AM

HKCAVALIER


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
What about the Biden "lipstick" reference to Palin yesterday? Not as offensive as Obama's stupidity( hey, I saw the whole incident leading up to it and the reaction after ), but just as grossly sexist. Two GREAT STATESMEN, and all they can do is hurl insults at Palin? Pretty fucking pathetic!

By the way who is Obama running against for President?..........

Sarah Palin ???
Sean Hannity ???
Fox News ???

That's all he talks about anymore. He's the LEAST Presidential fellow I've ever seen. Completely fucking OBSSESSED with little 'ole Fox News. I guess being hyped 24 hours a day on CNN & MSNBC & the NETWORKS isn't good enough for him. He's gone to war with Fox News and Hannity, actually elevating their status. The sad truth is that he blew the O'Reilly interview badly. He looked very un-Presidential. He should have called Al Sharpton on how to handle O'Reilly. It was really disappointing and amazing to see Obama squirm and cry for his mommy, and beg Bill for his understanding of his radical associations and socialist policies.

That's the way I see it, and that's the way I believe it. You disagee?...Swell!


Hey Jongs,

Who'd you say was foaming at the mouth yesterday?

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, September 10, 2008 8:54 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by HKCavalier:

Hey Jongs,

Who'd you say was foaming at the mouth yesterday?

HKCavalier


I'm telling the truth about the events yesterday, and yes I'm mad about them. If you support these men who visciously attack Palin only because they see HER as the big threat to them, then you are as bad as they are. If you saw & heard Obama on OReilly, and then to go after Fox while on Fox, comparing Fox to The Daily KOS, you'd realize just how desperate and frantic he's become....but I'll bet you just think I make all this up right? You never see it , right? Lot's of folks in America are seeing it very clearly too.

I'm done here for the day......you discuss amongst yourselves. I am vastly outnumbered in the RWED, and can't even look to any support from my fellow Conservatives. That's as disappointing to me as anything else.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, September 10, 2008 9:03 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by HKCavalier:
Hey Jongs,

Who'd you say was foaming at the mouth yesterday?
.


Must mean McCain is losing.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, September 10, 2008 9:04 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
I'm telling the truth about the events yesterday, and yes I'm mad about them. If you support these men who visciously attack Palin only because they see HER as the big threat to them, then you are as bad as they are. If you saw & heard Obama on OReilly, and then to go after Fox while on Fox, comparing Fox to The Daily KOS, you'd realize just how desperate and frantic he's become....but I'll bet you just think I make all this up right? You never see it , right? Lot's of folks in America are seeing it very clearly too.


Now where near as desperate and fanatical as the desperate fanatics in the Republicans...



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, September 10, 2008 9:28 AM

HKCAVALIER


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
If you support these men who visciously attack Palin...


Jongs,

Even if Obama meant to imply that Governor Palin was a "pig," that would hardly constitute a vicious attack. Vacuous attack, maybe. Puerile attack, I'd believe. But it's the moral equivalent of a spit ball on the back of the neck.

You want a vicious attack? How 'bout claiming that the Democratic nominee wants to lose a war to win an election? Or suggesting that an affectionate gesture between his wife and himself is a "terrorist fist-jab?" Or this crap that all Obama ever did before running for president was act as a "community organizer" 20 years ago? (Of course, all McCain is running on is the fact that he was a POW 40 years ago, so I guess it makes a weird kinda sense that they'd ignore Obama's recent accomplishments as well.)

But no, you're right, the idea that Obama MIGHT have been, in a sidelong way, attempting to replace the word "pitbull" with the word "pig" in the mind of some people is far worse than any of that garbage.

The thing that gets me, is that none of this will convince the undecided voter. All this shit does is fire up the people that already hate the other side's candidate. If you're undecided about Obama, you're not gonna see this and say, "Whoa, that's it! He mighta been vaguely snarky to the Republican VP candidate! I'm goin' McCain all the way!" And no one is saying, "Dang, I wasn't at all sure Palin was qualified to be VP, but now that Obama sorta kinda implied that she was a pig, I'm definitely voting for her!"

But c'mon, here's the truth: Obama has 243 of the 270 electoral votes safely in his hands, while McCain controls only 189. McCain would have to nearly double his numbers to beat Obama and Obamna only needs another 27 electoral college votes to win the election. McCain would have to win virtually every contested state in the race to win now. These are the metrics the folks in the McCain campaign were looking at when they decided to "shoot the moon" with Palin. McCain is in no position to even think about the undecideds, he still needs to win over the red base even to have a prayer.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/09/presidential.polls/index.html?e
ref=rss_politics&iref=polticker


HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, September 10, 2008 9:31 AM

ERIC


Quote:

Originally posted by HKCavalier:

But c'mon, here's the truth: Obama has 243 of the 270 electoral votes safely in his hands, while McCain controls only 189. McCain would have to nearly double his numbers to beat Obama and Obamna only needs another 27 electoral college votes to win the election. McCain would have to win virtually every contested state in the race to win now.



Yeah, but don't forget the 'Diebold Premium' that always seems to sink Democrats at the last minute...

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, September 10, 2008 9:45 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Somebody please explain this joke to me. I heard her say it live, I've read about how it was so witty in blogs and news articles, and now it's being mentioned here.


I thought it was funny. It wasn't real funny, but its one of those...you had to be there...funnies.

What she's saying is that Hockey moms are fierce...like pitbulls, but wear lipstick, unlike pitbulls. Its self-depriciating humor.

It was a joke, it was funny, you didn't think it was funny, not everybody thinks everything is funny, nuff said.

H

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, September 10, 2008 11:11 AM

HKCAVALIER


Oh heck, Jongs,

I just caught up with the "sex ed for kindergartners" garbage from McCain. You want a vicious attack? How 'bout the lie that Obama wants to teach sex ed to kindergartners when he was supporting a bill to teach children how to deal with child molesters? What a pathetic and despicable and, yes, vicious lie.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, September 10, 2008 11:34 AM

CITIZEN


Palin does have a point about the Hokey mom thing though.




More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, September 10, 2008 12:01 PM

CHRISISALL


Hey Cit, did you make her eyes farther apart? Somethin's definitely different........

Low Chrisisall

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, September 10, 2008 1:03 PM

GINOBIFFARONI


Is that pentagram around her neck photoshop or.....

Lets party like its 1939

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, September 10, 2008 1:12 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Jongs, I understand that you're upset by this "vicious sexist attack" - but where was your righteous indignation when McCain said the exact same thing about Hillary?

For the record, Obama was talking about McCain's economic policies, and when McCain said it, he was talking about HIllary's economic policies. If there's sexism involved, it's clearly a sexist remark on the part of McCain, because he said it in direct reference to his FEMALE opponent's policies.

As for women being disgusted by it, I asked my boss, who is a hardcore Republican (but also pretty open-minded about most things and ready to discuss differing points of view) what she thought about it. She said it was funny as hell, and thought it was a smart way for Obama to take a bit of focus off Palin.

Others have suggested that Obama's campaign and supporters run with it. If people want to think he's calling Palin a pig, let 'em. Paint her as the "Pork Queen" - after all, her state does get more pork per person than any other state in the nation, and she's only too happy to take the money.

I think Obama supporters should start wearing little pig-noses with lipstick painted on them!




Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, September 10, 2008 4:02 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Obama has 243 of the 270 electoral votes safely in his hands, while McCain controls only 189. McCain would have to nearly double his numbers to beat Obama and Obamna only needs another 27 electoral college votes to win the election. McCain would have to win virtually every contested state in the race to win now.

Dammit, HKC!

I was studiously avoiding any mention of that cause the wingies woulda never thought to look that up themselves, and thus I could extend my "playtime" with them like dangling a bag of baking soda before a coke fiend....


And here ya had to go and ruin it with the awful light of reality, bleh.
Fun while it lasted though.
(Yes, I knew this when I made the super-snarky sharkbait comments, which is why I made em!)
Quote:

I think Obama supporters should start wearing little pig-noses with lipstick painted on them!

Umm, actually - those would be Washington Redskins fans.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hogettes

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, September 10, 2008 5:39 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Now the Dems use it, and the Republicans are crying foul. Are they being unreasonable, or are they right? Is this a veiled attack at Palin, who used the line, "You know what the difference is between a hockey Mom and a Pit Bull? Lipstick."?

I have a hard time believe that given the degree of attention Palin’s Lipstick comment has gotten in the media that Obama’s speech writer didn’t know exactly what he was saying. I’m sure that the reference to Palin was intended and it’s a pretty petty and underhanded comment. Its purpose was to take a jab at Palin, there’s really no doubt. By making an official complaint about it, the McCain campaign is hoping to turn the comment around and use it against Obama. However, if the comment was sufficiently well buried then that might prove difficult.




Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, September 11, 2008 2:22 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by HKCavalier:
How 'bout the lie that Obama wants to teach sex ed to kindergartners when he was supporting a bill to teach children how to deal with child molesters? What a pathetic and despicable and, yes, vicious lie.


I note two things for the record.

First, the bill was a large bill that went through many changes. At the time Obama signed on as a co-sponser (its wrong to label him the author...it wasn't his bill, heck, I don't think he sponsored many bills if any), the bill contained a sex education provision for little type folks to teach them about what was and was not sexual contact and what was and was not appropriate. The idea was to protect them from sexual predators and STDs. The bill was later modified. I applaud efforts to protect children and while I do not support teaching young children about sex, I don't condemn out of ignorance a bill whose goal is comendable but whose methods I disagree with. I would not have voted for the bill in its original form, I would have worked to make the bill acceptable in a modified form.

Two, Barrack Obama took heat last year, before his campaign took off, for saying that he'd support teaching children about sex. He later clarified the remark (as he so often seems to do).

H

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, September 11, 2008 2:46 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by HKCavalier:
But c'mon, here's the truth: Obama has 243 of the 270 electoral votes safely in his hands, while McCain controls only 189.


Your numbers are correct, but only tell part of the story. Obama's electoral count has decreased in recent weeks and McCain has picked up votes.

Given that it takes longer for national trends to refect in state polls look for Obama to lose additional votes.

With so many new undecided states it is important to note that McCain is leading or tied in most of them a complete reversal of the trend in which he was 'just hanging on'.

The big ones right now are PA, OH, and FL. PA was solid Obama territory until a few day ago when it slipped dramatically into the undecided column. Obama has squandered a double digit lead but still maintains a slight edge. In FL they are neck and neck...but don't count out the ability of the Cuban and Jewish votes to deliver that state. In OH Obama went from a five point lead to a seven point trail in one week.

My guess is the trend will continue since Obama keeps making mistakes including the mistake of dragging his mistakes out. Also, it was nice of Joe Biden to admit he isn't the best man for the job. I wonder if the Senate Health Plan covers foot-in-mouth disease.

H

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, September 11, 2008 4:05 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
OF COURSE it was a slander at Palin. All the listeners there got it! They stood up and cheered mockingly. You think they would have stood up and cheered if it was anything else?

Also, Biden made a LIPSTICK reference yesterday too when he attacked Palin.

So the sequence here is that Palin uses the "lipstick" brilliantly in her speech, and then these two women-haters, Obama & Biden, throw it back at her in an insulting way within a week later. Can't they at least be "original" in their misogyinist rants? They have sunk to new all-time lows.




At the very least, whether Obama MEANT it that way or not, his fans and supporters clearly saw it as a jab at Gov. Palin. Much like Kerry's ill deliverd joke about doing poorly in school will lead you to ( getting elected twice to the highest office in the land and leader in the free world - the larger part that Kerry left out ) making poor choices later on in life and you'll end up in Iraq, supposidly directed at President Bush. Few bought Kerry's tepid attempt at recovery, so the lesson is learned. Know your audience, and be wary of what you say.



It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager


" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, September 11, 2008 4:51 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
At the very least, whether Obama MEANT it that way or not,


If people were offended, then like Imus, Obama needs to apologize.

I don't think that Palin or McCain were offended. My Mother, lifelong Democrat was offended and is really taking the attacks on Palin's family personally. She voted Clinton, Clinton, Gore, Kerry, and plans to vote McCain/Palin having had her mind changed in the last three weeks.

What most impressed so many women about Palin was her ability to weather the storm and then deliver what many think is among the best convention performances ever.

But Barrack needs to understand, women like my Mother and some others I've talked to saw this as a personal attack and see it as a weight/image attack which they found particularly offensive.

I likened it to if McCain were to come out and said he planned to 'give Barrack enough rope to hang himself' which is a perfectly innocent comment...unless your talking about a black man and people think lynching.

H

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, September 11, 2008 6:49 AM

RIGHTEOUS9


The "storm" that she weathered is such bullshit,

so is the faux outrage,

so is the idea that the media has been taking it particularly hard on Palin,

which again leads to more faux outrage about how Obama has been treated with kid gloves, which also isn't born out by fact, and studies actually suggest that press coverage of him was far more negative than that of Mccain.

.......................

the most amazingly glaringly offensive thing about the GOP is that I saw two of those assholes stand up in defense of an ad sponsored by the Mccain campaign that literally lies and says that - Obama on Palin: lipstick pig yada yada,

and all they could muster as a defense was that "in this sensitive time, the obama camp should be more careful about how what they say might be perceived"...that that is what the ad was talking about. They would not outright say Obama's comment was about Palin, however they said the ad that did do that was fine, because people could perceive his comments that way.

And how would people perceive his comments to mean that I wonder? Maybe if the repubs continue to literally lie and tell people that is what Obama said? Would that have something to do with it?

Why is Mccain paying for deliberately misleading ads? Both this and the Sex education one that attacks Obama's efforts on a bill to protect children from sexual predators, distorting it and calling the bill an advocacy of "comprehensive" sex education?

I thought he was the candidate of integrity, ethics, honor, blah blah blah

.......................................

Edited to add that Obama said on Letterman I think,

and this makes perfect sense to me, that given the current political climate taht if he had meant that it would have made more sense if Mccain's failed policies were the pig and Palin was the lipstick,

because after all her pick has pretty much drawn attention away from policy, and middle of the road politics and obscured the issues with a new exciting circus.

In the context there was no mention of the vice president at all though. There was no connection. Obama spoke about Mccain's faux change argument, so wherass you could stretch to get this latter interpretation, the first is pretty ridiculous, doesn't fit the MO of anything Obama has said or done before, unless some of you fools still believe Obama flipped off Hillary, and says more about you than it does about him.

......................

by the way did anybody pick up the new addition? Yesterday on Matthews one of those people I mentioned above thought the stinking fish was a reference to Mccain...

lo and behold that has been taken up by others now, days after the original comment...

Pfrefrenefefo or however you spell that lady's name picked it right up and now its part of the package smear...

nice

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, September 11, 2008 7:45 AM

HKCAVALIER


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
At the very least, whether Obama MEANT it that way or not, his fans and supporters clearly saw it as a jab at Gov. Palin.


No.

Nowhere in the speech does Obama so much as mention Palin. The speech is about Bush/McCain the whole way through and, yes, his audience applauded at the "it's still a pig" line, because it was direct and biting attack on McCain's "new" ideas--partisan audiences tend to do that when you take a swipe at the opposition. And as Obama has maintained since Palin was anointed, he has to presume that Palin shares McCain's views ('cause we haven't heard anything from her but her now stale stand-up routine from the RNC), and he's really running against McCain anyway, so he's gonna talk about McCain.

You guys are hilarious! You don't watch the Democratic debates, you don't watch Obama's stump speeches other than the clips on Hannity, so when you see an audience laugh and applaud at one of Obama's witticisms you think they MUST be laughing at what you in your myopic view THINK they're laughing at. Y'all may be obsessed with Governor MacGuffin, but the rest of the world is just embarrassed for you.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, September 11, 2008 12:55 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:


Edited to add that Obama said on Letterman I think,

and this makes perfect sense to me, that given the current political climate taht if he had meant that it would have made more sense if Mccain's failed policies were the pig and Palin was the lipstick,



Exactly. Was it a swipe at Palin personally? I don't think so. But it also wasn't said by accident. It was a swipe at the McCain/Palin campaign, and an attempt by Obama to take some of the coverage away from Palin, and to take "ownership" of the word "lipstick" away from her - which it succeeded in doing. For two days now, all we hear about is Obama's lipstick remark - which is handy for the Republicans, because the very last thing they want to talk about is issues, and handy for Obama because when someone hears "lipstick" now, they don't automatically think of Palin - at least some of them think "pig".

And then last night on Letterman, he got another free swipe at 'em with it. Saying that if he was talking about Palin, then she'd be the lipstick - in essence, complimenting her. And then pausing, letting Dave and the audience think he was calling McCain the pig, and letting them have a laugh about it, before clarifying and saying that McCain's POLICIES would be the pig.

I thought it was pretty savvy politics on his part, and he's maintained plausible deniability on it the whole time.

Although no one ever did answer my question from before: Where was your righteous indignation when McCain said the exact same thing about Hillary Clinton? Where were your charges of sexism then?




Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, September 11, 2008 1:15 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Although no one ever did answer my question from before: Where was your righteous indignation when McCain said the exact same thing about Hillary Clinton? Where were your charges of sexism then?

What statements did Hillary make, if any, that prompted McCain’s comment? Because if Palin hadn’t have made the Lipstick comment, Obama’s comment would have gone unnoticed too. It’s the combination of the two that relate the comment to Palin.



Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, September 11, 2008 1:22 PM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:

Although no one ever did answer my question from before: Where was your righteous indignation when McCain said the exact same thing about Hillary Clinton? Where were your charges of sexism then?



It's ok when Republicans do it, there's two different set of rules, don't you get it?



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, September 11, 2008 2:25 PM

FUTUREMRSFILLION


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
At the very least, whether Obama MEANT it that way or not,


If people were offended, then like Imus, Obama needs to apologize.

I don't think that Palin or McCain were offended. My Mother, lifelong Democrat was offended and is really taking the attacks on Palin's family personally. She voted Clinton, Clinton, Gore, Kerry, and plans to vote McCain/Palin having had her mind changed in the last three weeks.

What most impressed so many women about Palin was her ability to weather the storm and then deliver what many think is among the best convention performances ever.

But Barrack needs to understand, women like my Mother and some others I've talked to saw this as a personal attack and see it as a weight/image attack which they found particularly offensive.

I likened it to if McCain were to come out and said he planned to 'give Barrack enough rope to hang himself' which is a perfectly innocent comment...unless your talking about a black man and people think lynching.

H



Dude, I do not see how any woman in her right mind would have (a) seen that as an attack on Palin since BOTh McCain and Obama have used that phrase before and (B) taken it as a reference to weight issues.

I think these women you are talking to need to get a grip.

And I have been talking to other woman and they all agree with me

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original




“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Mahatma Gandhi

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, September 11, 2008 2:32 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


"But Barrack needs to understand, women like my Mother and some others I've talked to saw this as a personal attack and see it as a weight/image attack which they found particularly offensive."

Your mother, and women like her, are idiots. No offense.

But to read the comment IN CONTEXT and come away with that impression is laughable. Or the other possibility, to just read the all the fru-fru without actually finding out the FACTS is also laughable. Either way ...

****************************************************************

Silence is consent.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, September 11, 2008 2:51 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Unfortunately, I know a lot of very nice, very stupid women. I think the Obama campaign should just let them go.

---------------------------------
Any idea, no matter how much you may agree with it, can be radicalized and employed as an excuse for violence. There is no such thing as a righteous or untouchable philosophy, and when you start thinking that there is, you have become an extremist.- Finn Mac Cumhal

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, September 11, 2008 3:06 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

I thought it was pretty savvy politics on his part, and he's maintained plausible deniability on it the whole time.

Was pretty slick, indeed.

He's good, not Bill Clinton good, but at least not a total fucking embarrassment like the pathetic mourners row of dregs the GOP has to offer.

Being a good politician however, does not necessarily equal being a good president.

Never thought I'd see the day when I actually missed Slick Willy.

-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, September 11, 2008 5:28 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Because if Palin hadn’t have made the Lipstick comment, Obama’s comment would have gone unnoticed too. It’s the combination of the two that relate the comment to Palin.


So you're saying that she now owns the copyright on the word "lipstick", and that no one can ever again say that trying to pretty up an ugly thing is tantamount to "putting lipstick on a pig"?



Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, September 11, 2008 6:07 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Because if Palin hadn’t have made the Lipstick comment, Obama’s comment would have gone unnoticed too. It’s the combination of the two that relate the comment to Palin.


So you're saying that she now owns the copyright on the word "lipstick", and that no one can ever again say that trying to pretty up an ugly thing is tantamount to "putting lipstick on a pig"?

No, I’m not saying anything of the sort.




Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, September 11, 2008 6:35 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

No, I’m not saying anything of the sort.



Implying rather strongly, then?

If not, then why all the fuss?

You certainly SEEM to be saying that since she made a remark about lipstick, he is now not allowed to mention the word.




Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, September 11, 2008 6:55 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
You certainly SEEM to be saying that since she made a remark about lipstick, he is now not allowed to mention the word.

That is not what I’m saying, but evidently a similar relationship between McCain and Hillary cannot be found, so there is no way to judge it as meaning the same as Obama’s comment.




Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, September 12, 2008 2:24 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

That is not what I’m saying, but evidently a similar relationship between McCain and Hillary cannot be found, so there is no way to judge it as meaning the same as Obama’s comment.



Bullshit. Next you'll be telling me what your definition of "is" is. Talk about needless and incessant parsing of words.

McCain used the exact same expression when speaking directly about Hillary and her health care proposal. Obama used the phrase when speaking directly about McCain in a speech in which Palin's name and the position she's running for were never mentioned.

So if a man says it when speaking of a woman, it's okay, but if another man says it when speaking about a man, it's sexist.

Bull. Fucking. Shit.

Your hypocrisy is showing, again. Might wanna look into that.




Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, September 12, 2008 2:39 AM

FINN MAC CUMHAL


You have yet to show that McCain was speaking directly about Hillary. That’s you’re problem. Palin’s Lipstick comment relates Obama’s lipstick comment to her, but you haven’t show that there is any relationship between what McCain said and Hillary. You simply assume that if McCain used the same hackneyed phrase as Obama that it must be meant the same way, but that is not the case. So if you want to show how the McCain comment is related to Hillary, then I’m listening, if not, you can’t show a relation.



Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, September 12, 2008 2:47 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
You have yet to show that McCain was speaking directly about Hillary. That’s you’re problem. Palin’s Lipstick comment relates Obama’s lipstick comment to her, but you haven’t show that there is any relationship between what McCain said and Hillary. You simply assume that if McCain used the same hackneyed phrase as Obama that it must be meant the same way, but that is not the case. So if you want to show how the McCain comment is related to Hillary, then I’m listening, if not, you can’t show a relation.

You've not shown that Obama was talking about Palin either, you've just said he was and told people they have to accept it, but then you usually operate on different rules that you hold everyone else to.



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

YOUR OPTIONS

NEW POSTS TODAY

USERPOST DATE

OTHER TOPICS

DISCUSSIONS
Covington 2: George Floyd Boogaloo
Fri, August 7, 2020 09:00 - 3 posts
A thread for Democrats Only
Fri, August 7, 2020 08:33 - 3747 posts
Elections 2020
Fri, August 7, 2020 08:24 - 929 posts
Some Covid-19 thoughts
Fri, August 7, 2020 05:57 - 1105 posts
What's with the american shitbull terrier?
Fri, August 7, 2020 04:08 - 64 posts
new deadly human-to-human-transmissible coronavirus emerges out of China
Fri, August 7, 2020 03:11 - 2063 posts
Long hot summer ... of riots
Fri, August 7, 2020 01:13 - 156 posts
The predictions thread
Fri, August 7, 2020 01:09 - 820 posts
Who Is Running In 2020?
Thu, August 6, 2020 23:52 - 686 posts
The death of the dollar?
Thu, August 6, 2020 22:19 - 44 posts
Deutsche Bank Announcement Incoming...and it's a warning that and they DID hand over Trump documents?
Thu, August 6, 2020 22:13 - 4 posts
C'mon Man! Too many good thread titles to choose from... (Re: Biden should be in a home)
Thu, August 6, 2020 22:10 - 7 posts

FFF.NET SOCIAL