REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Iraqi whore throws his shoes at the Prez

POSTED BY: WHOZIT
UPDATED: Friday, December 19, 2008 22:33
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 12497
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Wednesday, December 17, 2008 8:17 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
He won, even if he dies - even if we, or the iraq government we're propping up, beat him to death now...

HE WON.

Look, all of us are talking it about it, aren't we ?
Hundreds, maybe even thousands, of Iraqis are shaking their shoes at Bush, and us for not having the sense to put him in prison instead of the oval office, his single, solitary and very public act inspired many people, exactly as he intended it to do.

And if we, or the Iraqi gov harm him now, we give him even more power, by martyring him and driving his own message all the deeper into that society.

HE GOT IT DONE.

Ponder *that* for a good long while, willya ?

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it



Me, personally - I'd like to see Bush come home, and as he hits the stairs coming off Air Force One, see him just get PELTED with thousands of shoes thrown by patriotic Americans.

But maybe that's just me...

Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."

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Wednesday, December 17, 2008 8:20 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


I never saw that coming ... didn't even have time to duck ...
Quote:


2 wrongs do not make a right.


Quote:


But 3 lefts do.



Sorry... couldn't resist that one.

Mike



***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Wednesday, December 17, 2008 8:27 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:


It is harmful, I'm sorry you can't see that. It damages all of us alike.



BUSH has been harmful and damaging to all of us alike, and I'm sorry you can't see that. Smacking his stupid monkey face with a steel-toe boot would be letting him off easy. In the spirit of his "1984" world, he needs a jackboot on his face for the rest of time. Anything less is spit in the face of every American AND every Iraqi.

Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."

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Wednesday, December 17, 2008 9:14 AM

RIVERLOVE


Kwikko- Thanks for your appreciation of my little post from yesterday regarding the shoe conspiracy, however your last post troubles me. I understand from your 18,957 posts that you hate Bush. I get it, but the type of action you're talking/joking about now is juvenile and dis-respectful, not only to the Office of the President, but to those who gave their lives believing in him and the mission. It also dis-respects the millions of Americans who still are grateful to Bush for preventing any terror attacks since 9/11. Someday you'll be able to spit on his grave, and I'm sure that will please you to no end.

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Wednesday, December 17, 2008 9:27 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


I think it counts a free speech.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Wednesday, December 17, 2008 9:32 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


On a related note - RiverLove, I read your responses as formulated on these assumptions:
you love the country but hate the freedom.

Am I wrong ?

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Wednesday, December 17, 2008 9:37 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Riverlove:
Quote:

Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:

Would'nt it be a hoot now if people shared in his victory by throwing shoes onto the White House lawn.....


on the lawn, hanging from the fence, the trees, the secret service.... shoes everywhere


A hoot from your perspective; crude, rude and disrespectful to the Office of the President from mine. Would it be a hoot if people tossed Rev Wright's hate-America videos on Obama's lawn too? Or how 'bout Professor Ayers leading off the Inauguration with a nice flag burning?. That'd be a hoot for sure.



Once again, you fail to see the distinction between holding one man responsible for his decisions, and holding another responsible for the actions of others.

But hey, party first, right?

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, December 17, 2008 10:06 AM

RIVERLOVE


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
On a related note - RiverLove, I read your responses as formulated on these assumptions:
you love the country but hate the freedom.

Am I wrong ?


I'm surprised you'd leave yourself open like that Rue. I don't have enough time today to properly answer that, except to say that you typically do not get me at all. You cherry-pick my posts and focus on whatever suits your beliefs. That's fine and dandy, but you err when you lump me in with all the others you disagree with. Yes, you are wrong about your assessment, but since when does that matter here?

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Wednesday, December 17, 2008 10:09 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


I asked, didn't I ?

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Wednesday, December 17, 2008 10:12 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


"however your last post troubles me. ... the type of action you're talking/joking about now is juvenile and dis-respectful, not only to the Office of the President, but to those who gave their lives believing in him and the mission. It also dis-respects the millions of Americans who still are grateful to Bush for preventing any terror attacks since 9/11."

If I may note: dumping tea into the harbor was also disrespectful to the authorities, their supporters and believers, and the soldiers who died defending them.

And --- so what ? Disrespect is not a crime.

Why should it be an issue ?

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Wednesday, December 17, 2008 10:22 AM

RIVERLOVE


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
"however your last post troubles me. ... the type of action you're talking/joking about now is juvenile and dis-respectful, not only to the Office of the President, but to those who gave their lives believing in him and the mission. It also dis-respects the millions of Americans who still are grateful to Bush for preventing any terror attacks since 9/11."

If I may note: dumping tea into the harbor was also disrespectful to the authorities, their supporters and believers, and the soldiers who died defending them.

And --- so what ? Disrespect is not a crime.

Why should it be an issue ?

Silence is consent.


You're right, disrespect is not a crime. I never said it was. With freedom, I believe, comes responsibility. A responsibility to use your freedom intelligently, and for positive things.

If you were at a funeral for a cousin you never liked, you wouldn't stand up all of a sudden, interrupting the service, and shout out," Oh bullcrap, the guy was a jerk." I know you wouldn't. Why? Because you would hurt the feelings of those other family members and friends that maybe loved the guy. You certainly have the freedom to choose to do that, but you excersize restraint when it's appropriate. That's the only point I've tried to make today on this thread.

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Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:06 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Riverlove:

If you were at a funeral for a cousin you never liked, you wouldn't stand up all of a sudden, interrupting the service, and shout out," Oh bullcrap, the guy was a jerk." I know you wouldn't.

"Never liked" is one thing, but if he really was a jerk, I will assume I'm present at the funeral under duress, and I sure as Hell WOULD express my honest opinion, if asked. If he'd gotten a friend or family member killed as a result of his stupidity, then yeah, I'd shout it out at an opportune moment, and I'd thumb my nose at his gorram dead body, and wish him a better one next time 'round. Respect is for them that deserve it, man.


The harsh Chrisisall

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Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:27 AM

RIVERLOVE


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Respect is for them that deserve it, man.


I felt that way a lot during my life, but now I don't. I know you're not a kid Chris, so as an adult we all have to occasionally do things we detest. Would you still thumb your nose at his dead body while his wife & daughter were watching? How 'bout his mom & dad? I doubt it, because you're not an animal. Are we all hypocrites in life? Maybe. But within the social and cultural boundaries of our civilized society, sometimes turning the other cheek, aka discretion, is the better part of valor.

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Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:30 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Riverlove:
I doubt it, because you're not an animal.

You don't know me well enough to say that, mister *snarls*

Okay, if the little s**t had a kid or a wife, then maybe I'd back off it....


The qualifyin' Chrisisall

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Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:42 AM

RIVERLOVE


Excellent Grasshopper!
You are ready to lift the red-hot, zillion degree, dragon-burning-into-your-flesh thingy off the floor.

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Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:47 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


I don't see how paying negative political tribute to Bush disrespects everyone else, that's all.

And, as a political figure, getting that flak is part of his job description.

It's not at all equivalent to a funeral.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:47 AM

CHRISISALL


Is not a man in death to be considered part of that which was, and now part of the earth that sees him rest? Which of us, the low or the high, may claim themselves better? Seek always harmony...
like this dead-jerk-cousin of mine!

HA


The warped Caine Chrisisall

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Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:49 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:


It's not at all equivalent to a funeral.


I agree.


The succinct Chrisisall

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Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:50 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I see no reason why Iraqis should be required to respect their occupiers.

If we want to be feared, we shouldn't expect to be liked as well.

---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

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Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:54 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


"If we want to be feared, we shouldn't expect to be liked as well."

SOME body's been reading their Machiavelli !

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Wednesday, December 17, 2008 2:19 PM

GINOBIFFARONI


Quote:

Originally posted by Riverlove:
Quote:

Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:

Would'nt it be a hoot now if people shared in his victory by throwing shoes onto the White House lawn.....


on the lawn, hanging from the fence, the trees, the secret service.... shoes everywhere


A hoot from your perspective; crude, rude and disrespectful to the Office of the President from mine. Would it be a hoot if people tossed Rev Wright's hate-America videos on Obama's lawn too? Or how 'bout Professor Ayers leading off the Inauguration with a nice flag burning?. That'd be a hoot for sure.



I have no respect for your President, the outgoing one or the incoming one.

Bush has earned the worlds disrespect, and as he is the elected representative of you Americans... unfortunately all of you get painted with some of that

Obama hasn't earned any respect yet, but he is well ahead of Bush simply because he hasn't had a chance to make the world a worse place. If he causes half as much damage, I'll be the first to slam him.



Lets party like its 1939

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Thursday, December 18, 2008 3:05 AM

RIVERLOVE


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
I don't see how paying negative political tribute to Bush disrespects everyone else, that's all.

And, as a political figure, getting that flak is part of his job description.

It's not at all equivalent to a funeral.


I guess you didn't notice or didn't care that his smelly shoes hit the American Flag. I feel like all Americans were insulted and disrespected by the incident. You don't, and that's fine. I'd be surprised by any other reaction from you.

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Thursday, December 18, 2008 3:09 AM

RIVERLOVE


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
I see no reason why Iraqis should be required to respect their occupiers.

If we want to be feared, we shouldn't expect to be liked as well.



We occupied Germany & Japan for a few years too at one time. They came out of it pretty good, good enough to be democratic states now, and world economic leaders.

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Thursday, December 18, 2008 4:37 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Riverlove:

I guess you didn't notice or didn't care that his smelly shoes hit the American Flag.



Is this better?:




The laughing Chrisisall

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Thursday, December 18, 2008 4:53 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by Riverlove:

I guess you didn't notice or didn't care that his smelly shoes hit the American Flag.



Is this better?:




The laughing Chrisisall



You sir, have just disrespected the office of Santa Claus!

...love the reindeer...

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Thursday, December 18, 2008 4:55 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by pizmobeach:

You sir, have just disrespected the office of Santa Claus!

Santa Claus is just another corrupt western authority figure....


The Comrade Chrisisall

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Thursday, December 18, 2008 5:02 AM

RIVERLOVE


Much better.
Merry Christmas!

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Thursday, December 18, 2008 5:06 AM

CHRISISALL


And Buddha bless us- every one!


Tiny Chrisisall

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Thursday, December 18, 2008 9:45 AM

ERIC


You've seen the video, now live the adventure!

http://videogames.yahoo.com/feature/-quot-sock-and-awe-quot-pits-playe
rs-against-president/1274922


Quote:

"Sock and Awe" pits players against President
Can you out-shoe al-Zaidi?

By Mike Smith

Shoe-wielding Iraqi journalist Muntadar al-Zaidi, who was catapulted to international prominence after throwing his shoes at President Bush during a press conference in Iraq, is now the star of the latest in viral Web games.

"Sock and Awe" -- named after the military doctrine employed in the US operation to remove Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq -- allows players to throw shoes at a figure of President Bush, as he ducks behind a podium.

Al-Zaidi missed both his attempts before being dragged off by Iraqi security forces, but players of "Sock and Awe" have a little more leeway -- you can keep slinging footwear for up to thirty seconds.

At the time of writing, the virtual President Bush has been struck in the face by 21 million shoes, the site indicates.


Sock and Awe also shows visitors a league table of "Bush-shoeing countries" -- and although the United States is number one, the top five also includes France, Saudi Arabia, and the United Arab Emirates.

News of his new-found Web fame is unlikely to come as much comfort to al-Zaidi, who is reportedly facing up to two years in prison for disrespecting a foreign leader. Players of Sock and Awe are unlikely to meet the same fate.



"Arguing against this crap is like explaining to a meth tweaker that the shadow people aren't real."
-Bob Cesca

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Thursday, December 18, 2008 10:02 AM

WHOZIT


http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9555QEO0&show_article=1 I think he should get the pardon, if Bush gets a chance to throw a pair of BRAKE SHOES at him.....Dodge, duck, dip, dive and...dodge.

I'm going to microwave a bagel and have sex with it - Peter Griffin

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Thursday, December 18, 2008 10:17 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


RIVERLOVE
Quote:

We occupied Germany & Japan for a few years too at one time. They came out of it pretty good, good enough to be democratic states now, and world economic leaders.
Do you recall the Marshall Plan?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Plan

After WWII, Europeans were slowly starving to death. Strikes and unrest gathered strength. Truman saw that peace depended on prosperity. So the Marshall Plan and the United Nations Relief and Rehabilitation Administration rebuilt European economies to pre-WWII levels. The USA also rebuilt Japan's economy to prewar levels, a fact not widely known. www.state.gov/r/pa/ho/time/cwr/91194.htm

This has NOT been our history in Iraq, so don't expect the same results!


---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

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Thursday, December 18, 2008 10:53 AM

RIVERLOVE


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
RIVERLOVE
Quote:

We occupied Germany & Japan for a few years too at one time. They came out of it pretty good, good enough to be democratic states now, and world economic leaders.
Do you recall the Marshall Plan?

After WWII, Europeans were slowly starving to death. Strikes and unrest gathered strength. Truman saw that peace depended on prosperity. So the Marshall Plan and the United Nations Relief and Rehabilitation Administration rebuilt European economies to pre-WWII levels. The USA also rebuilt Japan's economy to prewar levels, a fact not widely known. This has NOT been our history in Iraq, so don't expect the same results!


These things take time. You don't know, no one knows, the ultimate future of Iraq.

Marshall Plan?...wasn't that how they re-built their football team after the tragic plane crash in 1970? No? Ok, then I think it was a vital effort both for humanitarian and political priorities for America to rebuild Europe in order to keep the Rooskies confined to what they already had grabbed after the war.

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Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:08 PM

CHRISISALL


Play it here!

http://sockandawe.com/


The laughing Chrisisall

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Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:55 PM

ERIC


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Play it here!

http://sockandawe.com/




Hey, there it is! The site wasn't working earlier- too busy probly. I scored a lucky 13. Note the US is the top Bush-shoeing country. USA! USA!

"Arguing against this crap is like explaining to a meth tweaker that the shadow people aren't real."
-Bob Cesca

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Thursday, December 18, 2008 2:53 PM

GINOBIFFARONI


Quote:

Originally posted by Eric:
Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Play it here!

http://sockandawe.com/




Hey, there it is! The site wasn't working earlier- too busy probly. I scored a lucky 13. Note the US is the top Bush-shoeing country. USA! USA!

"Arguing against this crap is like explaining to a meth tweaker that the shadow people aren't real."
-Bob Cesca



Great Game Thanks...





Lets party like its 1939

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Thursday, December 18, 2008 3:00 PM

GINOBIFFARONI


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
RIVERLOVE
Quote:

We occupied Germany & Japan for a few years too at one time. They came out of it pretty good, good enough to be democratic states now, and world economic leaders.
Do you recall the Marshall Plan?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Plan

After WWII, Europeans were slowly starving to death. Strikes and unrest gathered strength. Truman saw that peace depended on prosperity. So the Marshall Plan and the United Nations Relief and Rehabilitation Administration rebuilt European economies to pre-WWII levels. The USA also rebuilt Japan's economy to prewar levels, a fact not widely known. www.state.gov/r/pa/ho/time/cwr/91194.htm

This has NOT been our history in Iraq, so don't expect the same results!


---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.



May I suggest a book

http://www.amazon.com/Partners-Democracy-Crafting-Japanese-MacArthur/d
p/0195171764/ref=pd_sim_b_1


US policy in regard to Iraq and Afghanistan actually goes against much of what MacArthur managed to accomplish in Japan. Mind you, he did ignore the US government of the day to accomplish it.

Too bad there was no MacArthurs to tell Bush to piss off




Lets party like its 1939

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Thursday, December 18, 2008 3:00 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

These things take time. You don't know, no one knows, the ultimate future of Iraq.
The "ultimate" future of Iraq??? Well... ultimately it'll be swallowed up by the sun, along with the rest of the earth. I don't think there is an "ultimate" future, for any nation.
Quote:

Ok, then I think it was a vital effort both for humanitarian and political priorities for America to rebuild Europe in order to keep the Rooskies confined to what they already had grabbed after the war.
In point of fact, the Marshall Plan was also offered to the Russians.




---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

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Thursday, December 18, 2008 5:13 PM

FREMDFIRMA


I don't hold so much respect for ole dougie boy given that he and georgie patton "made their bones" with the powers that be by kicking the shit out of pissed off vets exercising their rights to free speech and assembly.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonus_Army

S'why I laugh so derisively when soldiers talk about honor, respect, solidarity, etc etc...

Because once the powers that be are through with using you to push their agendas, and you are too old, too battered, or too fed up to be useful anymore, they have all the regard for you that one has for a used kleenex, and even less use for you.

Our Government has never, EVER, not once from it's very inception had an ounce of real respect for the castoffs and veterans of their money making machine - so what kind of moron would believe they do in spite of the claim being demonstrably false throughout their entire history ?
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/warisaracket.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler

I might respect the courage of our vets, but I've always pitied their gullible stupidity, and as of late given that active duty armed forces are soon to be pitted against us, "for our own good" of course, have neither respect, nor pity, or even one ounce of mercy for them at this point in time.

Not one.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Friday, December 19, 2008 10:10 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!



www.ThankYouForThrowingYourShoe.com

Quote:


White House press whore Dana Perino gets black eye

DANA PERINO: I don’t think that you can take one guy throwing his shoe as representative of the people of Iraq. And I will tell you that Prime Minister Maliki and the journalists who were there in the room, who apologized on behalf of the Iraqis, saying this is not how they would treat a guest.

QUESTION: But he wasn’t a guest. We’re occupiers.

PERINO: No, we’re not. We are absolutely a guest.


US troops escaped conviction for Haditha Massacre in Iraq
http://iraqsolidaritycampaign.blogspot.com/2006/06/how-many-my-lais-fe
licity-arbuthnot.html




Now the Shoe Conspiracy Coup investigation includes mass arrests. Tom Cruise movie in the works.
http://valkyrie.unitedartists.com

35 Iraqi officials arrested, accused of working to overthrow gov’t
www.nytimes.com/2008/12/18/world/middleeast/18iraq.html?hp

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Friday, December 19, 2008 12:40 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

I understand from your 18,957 posts that you hate Bush.


"Hate" is such a strong word. I wouldn't say I hateBush. Let's just say I dislike him.

With the white-hot intensity of a million exploding suns.





Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."

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Friday, December 19, 2008 1:25 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


1,000 trial lawyers offered to defend him for free.

20-year-old brides are thrown at his feet.

The shoes have been destroyed: IF IT DOES NOT FIT YOU MUST AQUIT! PS: Don't confess!
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jCzBPBSWhjoRO7vG85P
29EP-ffLA


Bush shoe protester has been beaten, Iraqi judge says
www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/dec/19/iraq-georgebush

US troops open fire on Iraqi protestors holding shoes
www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/dec/17/bush-shoes-iraqi-journali
st-hero



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Friday, December 19, 2008 2:04 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Not just thrown at his feet, PN...

Ordinarily that would kinda wig me, but no shit mano...

She VOLUNTEERED.

Given how little choice of any kind women are given in those societies, that she did that and her father supported it, for a guy that risked his ass, his very life, to make a strong public statement against an oppressive occupiers main spokesman...

I say more power to her.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Friday, December 19, 2008 2:47 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Hmmm....

Throw shoes at president, collect $10-million, marry harem of brides...



Pretty cunning, don't cha think?
-Jayne, The Message

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Friday, December 19, 2008 2:52 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Hell, for that much I'd pop the disconnect switch on the prosthetic and throw the whole LEG at his ass!

Now there's a funny visual, innit ?

-F

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Friday, December 19, 2008 3:04 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Hell, for that much I'd pop the disconnect switch on the prosthetic and throw the whole LEG at his ass!

Now there's a funny visual, innit ?

-F



And I'd start a fund to get you a new bionic one to keep kicking ass with!

Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."

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Friday, December 19, 2008 10:33 PM

FREMDFIRMA


They don't come cheap, Mikey, we're talkin $45,000.00USD and up, for the ones I use.

Only reason I can get my hands on them at all instead of the cheap trash that I repeatedly wrecked one way or another is because...

A. I am on the design team.
B. I happen to be the test pilot.

I don't do myo or anything powered though, because if you lose power you're screwed, all the ones I work with have a backup of ability to function in a minimal capacity in rigid form if something breaks, and considering they're built out of high grade polymers, titanium and braced nickle-steel, that's a really uncommon thing to happen.

Also had some input on the exo-walker concept, but the japanese took it way further and better than we did - I could prolly have made some money (more likely just been ripped off by corpie lawyer firms) by holding out, but then it'd be *decades* before this stuff hits the market, and we got lots of kids coming back from Iraq who's armor saved their lives but not their limbs, and the faster we get them hooked up with replacements, the better off they'll be physically and mentally.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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