REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Ready to support the new Prez?

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Saturday, March 19, 2022 14:04
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Tuesday, January 20, 2009 9:46 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


For Republicans, now that the shoe is on the other foot, so to speak, how do you feel about the Imperial Presidency? Do you still think we should "support the President, no matter what his policies"? Should we honor the election, whether or not we feel it was legitimate?

For Democrats, if you are going to ask Republicans to do the above, were you able to do so for GW Bush?

If neither option appeals to you, is there something we can all agree on? For example, can we all agree that the election process needs reform? That the powers of the President need to be whittled down?

What does it mean TO YOU to support Obama, specifically? Since he is asking for "sacrifice" ... what, exactly, does that mean?

---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

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Tuesday, January 20, 2009 9:51 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Quote:

when they attack Bush, they attack the country
And when they attack Obama, they attack the country?

---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

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Tuesday, January 20, 2009 10:03 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


I didn't like the Imperial Presidency when it was dubya, I won't like it any more if it's Obama.

One thing I thought was interesting about the speech. He claims the divisions and partisanship are over. And yet, he's already had a taste of it, with repubican senators threatening to fillibuster the economic stimulus package. The reason is that it actually puts taxpayer money back in the hands of taxpayers, and doesn't just disgorge it unaccounted by the palletful to rich people, à la L Paul Bremer III.

I wonder how he thinks he's going to make this bold new era of cooperation come about.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Tuesday, January 20, 2009 10:08 AM

BLUESUNCOMPANYMAN


I've already noticed how conservatives are being polite wheras liberals were not in 2001. Examples abound. I doubt Barack's staff will enter the White House this afternoon to find all the O's plucked off keyboards.

I live near a lady who placed a yard sign in her flowerbed in 2005 that read "Not my President" and left it there until last Nov..now she is glowing...and yet the newly unsettled conservatives who live across the street from me plant no sign and call Barack president.

The true final test of my thesis regarding this subject will be when a new republician finally takes the office...it will eventually happen. Will the opposition again behave badly?


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Tuesday, January 20, 2009 10:13 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


"I doubt Barack's staff will enter the White House this afternoon to find all the O's plucked off keyboards."

Do you REALLY think that happened ? (see answer, below)



Answer:

After over a year of the GAO trying to take stock of the supposed damage done to the WH by the departing Clinton administration, the Bush administration finally admitted no such thing happened.

http://archive.salon.com/politics/feature/2001/05/23/vandals/print.htm
l


In other words, it was the first of many Bush administration lies.


And, well, you were just a sucker who bought it.
***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Tuesday, January 20, 2009 10:15 AM

CHRISISALL


If the guy coming in is a hawk, then yeah, not so much politeness due to casualties on the horizon... why shouldn't Republicans be polite to Barak? He threatens nothing they really hold dear.
The two situations aren't comparable.


The defining Chrisisall

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Tuesday, January 20, 2009 10:21 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by bluesuncompanyman:
I've already noticed how conservatives are being polite wheras liberals were not in 2001.



Posts on just this board blow that theory out of the water.

The school I teach at, we've had to have meetings on how to deal with the sudden wave of racism that has come up since the election - and these kids aren't getting their views from a vacuum. Mommy and Daddy feed them a steady stream.

Quote:

Examples abound.


But factual ones are somewhat less abundant.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, January 20, 2009 10:24 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


I never said / suggested we " support our President, no matter what ". In fact, many Republicans felt that way , even with Bush in the White House. You distort the recent past.

Obama is the President. For that reason alone, he , as office holder, deserves a level of respect. But blind obedience? Never. I was strongly against many things President Bush promoted, but still think he served our country well. He represents our country, our nation. I want the world to see a just, strong and engaging leader.

Let's see what he does.



It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager


" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Tuesday, January 20, 2009 10:25 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Ready to support the new Prez?

Depends.

I'll support the stuff that seems to me reasonable, and in the best interests of the country.

I'll oppose the stuff that does not.

I'll reject criticism of his administration that seems to me to be unwarranted.

I'll criticize when I believe it warranted.

I won't hate.



"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Tuesday, January 20, 2009 10:27 AM

GINOBIFFARONI


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
"I doubt Barack's staff will enter the White House this afternoon to find all the O's plucked off keyboards."

Do you REALLY think that happened ? (see answer, below)



Answer:

After over a year of the GAO trying to take stock of the supposed damage done to the WH by the departing Clinton administration, the Bush administration finally admitted no such thing happened.

http://archive.salon.com/politics/feature/2001/05/23/vandals/print.htm
l


In other words, it was the first of many Bush administration lies.


And, well, you were just a sucker who bought it.
***************************************************************

Silence is consent.




If it was a false report, then who ever generated it should have to fork over whatever it cost to conduct the investigation...

Could be expensive bullshit



Lets party like its 1939

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Tuesday, January 20, 2009 10:28 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
I want the world to see a just, strong and engaging leader.


Then how can you consider Bush a good leader, since the world saw him as the exact opposite of "just, strong and engaging"?



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Tuesday, January 20, 2009 10:31 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:

Then how can you consider Bush a good leader, since the world saw him as the exact opposite of "just, strong and engaging"?


AU respects the office of the President, even it the person running it should make some bad decisions.

I think.


The postulatin' Chrisisall

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Tuesday, January 20, 2009 10:38 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
I want the world to see a just, strong and engaging leader.


Then how can you consider Bush a good leader, since the world saw him as the exact opposite of "just, strong and engaging"?




Bush was all of those things. I have no idea what you're whining about. Now show some respect for the folks who saved your ass from the NAZIS.

You're welcome.



It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager


" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Tuesday, January 20, 2009 10:43 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
For Republicans, now that the shoe is on the other foot, so to speak, how do you feel about the Imperial Presidency?


I prefer it to the Imperial Congress.

But every President is different. I say lets see what he does before disapproving of him. I also note that its possible to disapprove of the Presidents method of leadership but still support his policies (or the opposite). For example, I supported many Clinton-era policies after 1995 (mainly because of Republican legislative influence), but greatly disapproved of his leadership practices.

Quote:


Do you still think we should "support the President, no matter what his policies"?
That is circumstancial. We're not soldiers, but we are citizens. We owe the President a certain amount of support and even while supporting his decisions, we can advocate alternative policy. That was a distinction lost on Democrats after the summer of 2001.


Should we honor the election, whether or not we feel it was legitimate?


I don't think there is any question this was a legitimate election. Even in Minnisota, the most inept and corrupted process in the country had little effect on the Presidential results.

The only folks crying foul are the crazytalkers saying Obama isn't a citizen...and we never listen to them.
Quote:


For Democrats, if you are going to ask Republicans to do the above, were you able to do so for GW Bush?


That would have been nice.
Quote:


If neither option appeals to you, is there something we can all agree on?


It was cold, there were a lot of people, and they messed up the Oath. Aside from that...lets get ready to rumble.
Quote:


For example, can we all agree that the election process needs reform?


Sure. How about some sort of promise by the candidates to use public financing? Or a pledge by the media to give fair coverage? Or no more national banking collapse in the ninety days before the election? Judge Republican girls/black/just about every Republican candidate by the same standards as Democratic candidates? Nobody is allowed to campaign in Iowa before June 1? Eliminate Delaware's electors? Instead of marking the box of the guy you want how bout we mark every box EXCEPT the guy we want?
Quote:


That the powers of the President need to be whittled down?


We need to end the President's ability to pick his own wife and children. They should be chosen from qualified persons reflecting the entire national character. One boy, one girl, a wife AND husband and all of mixed racial heritage and religeous background (plus a male dog, female cat, and gender neutral fish or bird).
Quote:


What does it mean TO YOU to support Obama, specifically? Since he is asking for "sacrifice" ... what, exactly, does that mean?


That is the question. To me it means keep doing what I'm doing and hope he doesn't mess me up too much.

I note for the record that I am perfectly willing to sacrifice paying my current taxes in favor of supporting a plan to pay less. Since they said taxes are patriotic, I'm a big enough patriot to forego my sense of patriotism in favor of doing what's right for the country by humbly accepting a tax cut.

H

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Tuesday, January 20, 2009 10:45 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Its like anythings.

Someone, be they President, Congress, or the asshole sticking up the quikee-mart...

Try and take whats mine, try and terrorize me into submission,

And you'll get the same thing.

All the bullets I can put into you.

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Tuesday, January 20, 2009 10:48 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Quote:

I want the world to see a just, strong and engaging leader.
I'd like to teach the world to sing,
In perfect harmony...


This could mean one of several things:

1) He'd like to have a just, strong, engaging leader as WE define it.
2) He'd like to have a just, strong, engaging leader as the rest of the world defines it.
3) He'd like to have a just, strong engaging leader as we define it, and wished the rest of the world would just get with the program already.
4) He thinks the President has to have really, really good PR, so that the world can "see" one thing while the President does another.


I'm confused. But maybe I'm overthinking it.

---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

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Tuesday, January 20, 2009 10:49 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Bush was all of those things. I have no idea what you're whining about. Now show some respect for the folks who saved your ass from the NAZIS.

You're welcome.


Why, you show no respect for the FRENCH, who won the War of Independence for YOU.

I'm telling you what the World Saw, what the world saw was what the world saw. What delusional KKK trolls see may be different, I don't know.. Believe it or not there are countries outside America. If you had a passport you could visit one. ;)



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Tuesday, January 20, 2009 11:18 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:
Why, you show no respect for the FRENCH, who won the War of Independence for YOU.


Yeah, after we kicked your redcoated asses, they showed up with a fleet fully prepared NOT to fight the British. Typical French...we win they war, they want the credit.
Quote:


Believe it or not there are countries outside America. If you had a passport you could visit one. ;)


"In the begining all the world was America." A Brit said that...fella by the name of Locke.

H

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Tuesday, January 20, 2009 11:27 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
Yeah, after we kicked your redcoated asses, they showed up with a fleet fully prepared NOT to fight the British. Typical French...we win they war, they want the credit.


Well, the first Naval victory for the American side was won by the French at Yorktown, and there were more French at the penultimate battle than Americans. Twist it how you will .
Quote:


"In the begining all the world was America." A Brit said that...fella by the name of Locke.


I think you're rather missing his point. He's talking about how nowhere had been yet claimed.



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Tuesday, January 20, 2009 12:01 PM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:
Well, the first Naval victory for the American side was won by the French at Yorktown, and there were more French at the penultimate battle than Americans. Twist it how you will .


Your talking about the Batte of the Chesapeake on Sept 5, 1781 where Comte de Grasse's French Fleet defeated the Anglish bastards during the Yorktown seige.

Well, we won the Battle of Gloucester in 1775. That was the first real victory.

Not to mention a certain John Paul Jones ("I have not yet begun to fight") who won the Battle of Flamborough Head...right off the coast of Yorkshire...on Sept 23, 1779. That was over a year AFTER he captured the HMS Drake in the North Channel Naval Duel.

H


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Tuesday, January 20, 2009 12:04 PM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
Your talking about the Batte of the Chesapeake on Sept 5, 1781 where Comte de Grasse's French Fleet defeated the Anglish bastards during the Yorktown seige.


That was the first real Naval Victory on the American side though. Up until that point British forces pretty much controlled the coast.



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Tuesday, January 20, 2009 12:35 PM

KIRKULES


I'm ready to support President Obama. He has handled the transition with the proper respect for former President Bush, and set a good example for his hate filled minions. He will be an honorable President just like Bush and treat the Oval Office with proper respect, unlike our last Democrat President. I will probably disagree with him more than I agree, but doubt I will ever lose respect for him like I did Clinton. I'm optimistic about the future, not because Obama is President, but because I believe in ability of our economy to recover from almost anything, except to much Government intervention.

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Tuesday, January 20, 2009 12:53 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

I've already noticed how conservatives are being polite wheras liberals were not in 2001. Examples abound.


Problem is, I think you actually BELIEVE that conservatives have been polite. And they were probably calling liberals "terrorist-lovers", "un-American", and, in 'Rappy's case, "fucking dumbass" on a regular basis.

Yeah, seems pretty polite to me...

Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."

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Tuesday, January 20, 2009 3:19 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Ready to support the new Prez?

Hell No.

My boot's goin up his ass just as quick as the last one - it's the only way to keep em honest.

-F

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Tuesday, January 20, 2009 3:28 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Quote:

My boot's goin up his ass just as quick as the last one - it's the only way to keep em honest
Seems to be the liberal stance as well.

---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

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Tuesday, January 20, 2009 4:05 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:

My boot's goin up his ass just as quick as the last one - it's the only way to keep em honest
Seems to be the liberal stance as well.

---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.



Yup.

It seems to me that Obama isn't going to be the ultra-leftist the hardcore liberal fringe wanted. He's a centrist who's MAYBE a little bit left of Bill Clinton. The far left and the far right really are small pieces of the electorate, but they tend to get the most press. Why? Because it's rather boring to interview somebody who says, "Well, I think he'll probably do okay. He'll have some successes and some failures, and he probably won't completely crash the country, and he probably won't be its bright shining savior come to save us all by the power of his hand." That's actually how I'd bet MOST of us feel - he's not "The Messiah" and he's not "The Antichrist" - just a guy doing his best, which is hopefully good enough.

But a stance like that doesn't make for a good soundbite or a thrilling interview, so it tends to not get much coverage...

I'm with Frem; both sides should keep his feet to the fire. More importantly, we should keep all of Congress's feet to the fire. Or at least we should START with their feet.

I'm *hoping* that Obama will turn out to be okay. I'm also hoping I don't get lulled into a sense of everything being okay under him, and that I can call him out on his fuckups as readily as I was willing to do so for his predecessor. Here's hoping he doesn't make to too easy for me...




Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."

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Tuesday, January 20, 2009 5:30 PM

SUCCATASH


I HAVE WAITED SO LONG FOR THIS DAY!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yahoooooooooooooooooooooo!!!

"Gott kann dich nicht vor mir beschuetzen, weil ich nicht boese bin."

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Tuesday, January 20, 2009 6:34 PM

MALBADINLATIN


Quote:

Originally posted by Succatash:
I HAVE WAITED SO LONG FOR THIS DAY!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yahoooooooooooooooooooooo!!!

I couldn't agree more...I was so miserable and beaten by the horrific Republican daily assault on so many things that were considered good before 2001. Pulitzer prizes, intelligent educated people, and so on.....

And just so I'm clear...anybody who is pro war, and voted for Bush twice and says they're not a Republian, IS a Republican. I neither recognize your fragile sensabilities about what to call you, nor do I believe the self exile is anything but an attempt to assuage criticizm for your responsibility in perpetuating these tragic wars we fight.

Anti western groups in the middle east must have thought they died and went to heavan. George Bush was stupid enough to take the bait of 911 and has destroyed international diplomatic progress and prestige, if not our very ability to wage war if anything else flares up.

We were thought of as a "gentle giant" by most of the world...greedy maybe, but harmless at the end of the day. Eventualy the world wanted money more than equality the communism way through the elimination of greed. All this amidst a magical American explosion of technology.

Then...We get socked in the nose. The people of Mumbai repaired thier hotels within one week, wiped thier tears, and went straight back to work to show them that they can hit them, but they can't hurt them. George Bush and Republicans made a religion out of ripping out our 911 IV's and busting out of the hospital to go kick tables over in Iraq then back out of the bar.

So...how can anyone not thank God for another chance which the Europeans are giving us because they approve of Obama so. The rest of the world will follow suit. Domestically Obama has no trouble inspiring Americans. Republicans resist and rely on people he knows screwing up to criticize him and it's all weak.

If you ever feel the euphoria begin to slip a bit just remember Cindy McCain and Sarah Palin.

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Tuesday, January 20, 2009 7:12 PM

JRC


Again with the hate.......



Everyone dies alone.

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Tuesday, January 20, 2009 10:28 PM

FREMDFIRMA


That sounded more like an honest assessment to me.

Anyhow, if this rookie wants to make his bones with me, there's one sure way to do it.

PUT THOSE FUCKING TOWERS BACK UP.
NOW!

I've always found it offensive that the former administration deliberately left this big gaping wound in all that is America so they could poke at it for sympathy and to rile us up so we didn't look too close at what the OTHER hand was doing - that's bullshit, and I think we the people have had enough of it.

I want em back up, bigger, stronger, with a monument on top of each capped with a flagpole topped with an eagle screaming our defiance and scorn at the shitheels who think we can be brought low so easily.

And you know what - I've wanted it since 09-12-01.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Wednesday, January 21, 2009 9:48 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by MalBadInLatin:
And just so I'm clear...anybody who is pro war, and voted for Bush twice and says they're not a Republian, IS a Republican. I neither recognize your fragile sensabilities about what to call you, nor do I believe the self exile is anything but an attempt to assuage criticizm for your responsibility in perpetuating these tragic wars we fight.


And just so I'm clear...you love George Bush and want to have his babies. I neither recognize your fragile gender limitations about what to call you, nor do I believe your self delusion is anything but an attempt to assuage you lust for Bush's genetic contribution to perpetuating the species using your body to father future soldiers for the wars we fight.

I don't know many folks who are pro war, I'm not. Most soldiers I know support the war, voted for Bush twice...but no class of American citizen is less pro war then the soldiers. They merely recognize that war is a part of the world we live in.

You need to be more specific. Being pro war and supporting an existing war are two entirely differrent positions. In World War 2 many people were entirely opposed to war as a concept, yet worked hard to either support the war effort or very often fought with great valor. Another good example is Sgt. York from WW1 who would not fight on religeous grounds, but went on to win the Medal of Honor in France.

H

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Wednesday, January 21, 2009 9:56 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


How about this?

Obama are the Reavers, when Mal and crew were flying by/under them.

"So, well see what they do..."

That's how I feel.

Sure he's a threat, everyone in government is.

But, I'll reserve my judgment until I see what he does.


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Wednesday, January 21, 2009 10:19 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

If you ever feel the euphoria begin to slip a bit just remember Cindy McCain and Sarah Palin


I don't think I've ever disagreed with each and ever thing in a post so fully and strongly as I disagree with yours.

Truly remarkable.

Cindy McCain is a damn saint compared most anyone on the Left or Right. And Sarah Palin is by far more a woman and a true leader than Hillary Clinton could have ever dreamt. Why you chose these two ladies, the would be 1st Lady and would be Vice President as some sort of targets for ridicule, is frankly un-American and utterly ignorant.



It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager


" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Saturday, March 19, 2022 2:04 PM

JAYNEZTOWN

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Russia keeps threatening with nukes
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SILENCE!!!
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Russia Invades Ukraine. Again
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A thread for Democrats Only
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