REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Are People Who Voted For Bush The Second Time Easily Controlled By Fear Tactics?

POSTED BY: CHRISISALL
UPDATED: Monday, March 16, 2009 07:08
SHORT URL:
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Friday, March 13, 2009 10:23 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
All the reasonable and informed folks on the subject

LOL, that's another good one, H.
Quote:


Some people vote straight party line for either side. I think most people vote the way they do for very good reasons.

LOL, keep 'em comin', man!
Many who voted for Obama did so for TOTALLY the wrong reasons, IMO.
Quote:


You should not assume people are stupid or ignorant or whatever for making a decision different then yours.

I never played Russian Roulette. It's a decision I've made. Many who've made the opposite decision are dead. Can I assume that that was a bad decision, even though it was different than mine? Please Hero, don't go all PC on me now.
Quote:

You risk dehumanizing your opposition and that could lead to the very oppression you fear.
You ARE right about that. I must have more compassion for the stupid & ignorant.
Okay, AND for peeps that just didn't/couldn't see it the way I did.
Quote:



If you don't trust people to make the right decision and if that's the case, perhaps you should take the decision out of their hands.


The memo stated that it IS largely out of our hands.

Seriously though, thanks for stating your reasons.


The laughing Chrisisall

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Friday, March 13, 2009 10:26 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Chris,
Neo cons aren't 1/4th the fascist as Obama
& the Dems.


You couldn't just say the Dems are more fascist, you had to push it to a ridiculous extreme, eh?

Neurons.
Use them.


The laughing Chrisisall

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Friday, March 13, 2009 11:58 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


I was gonna say 1/10th , but decided to be more accurate instead.



It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

A concern of the GOP is that the people aren't informed enough to understand their policies, while a fear of the Dems is that the people ARE.

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Friday, March 13, 2009 2:15 PM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by RIPWash:
Citizen (and Kwicko and Storymark and . . . ), I know you'll probably dispute this, but here is a report from 1999 from ABC News here in the US that shows the connection of Bin Laden and Hussein.

As my good friend Glenn Beck says . . . "I'm just sayin' . . ."



**EDIT** And yes I know there's a more recent report from ABC News stating that there was no link between the two, but their 1999 report went into the relationship rather extensively. Hmmmmmm . . . .


If an American news source is saying it, I'm more inclined to believe it isn't true.



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Friday, March 13, 2009 2:23 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:

If an American news source is saying it, I'm more inclined to believe it isn't true.




Funny, that's similar to what Rush Limbaugh has said about the US news media as well.

I'm just sayin'.





It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

A concern of the GOP is that the people aren't informed enough to understand their policies, while a fear of the Dems is that the people ARE.

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Friday, March 13, 2009 2:30 PM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
Thats my point, they created "marriage" they created it and defined it. You want something different...I say fine, nothing wrong with personal unions between same sex couples...but its something different, its not marriage.


It doesn't support your point at all. It fairly solidly shows that Marriage is whatever we want it to be, especially considering many cultures around the world consider marriage to be something rather different, and that before the narrow Judo-Christian definition was adopted marriage was VERY different to what it is now. In fact go back a few hundred years there was no 'legal' marriage. Go back a few more and Marriage wasn't even a particularly religious ceremony.

In reality your argument is nonsense, because the definition of marriage has changed constantly, holding up the current definition as "traditionally" and therefore "right" and "the only one possible" is bullshit on so many counts I'm surprised I even have to point it out. But apparently I do, so:
1) Marriage has changed constantly, if it hadn't our current definition wouldn't be the accepted one. It's actually more traditional for the definition of marriage to change, and hell it's actually more traditional for it too include same-sex marriages.

2) An argument based around something being codified in law and that being it, is silly. Laws get rewritten all the time. A concept you yourself seem to have no problem with when the law in question is one you don't like.

3) Traditional isn't short hand for right or correct. Just because something is traditional, doesn't mean it cannot or should not be changed. Arguing that something is the way it is, and that's why we can't/shouldn't change it, is laughable.

4) There's a definition for your entire argument, it's an "appeal to tradition". Appeal to tradition is a logical fallacy. Are you also going to argue that we shouldn't drive cars, because people have ridden horses for millennia? Makes about as much sense. Logical fallacies are such, because on the face of it they sound good, but in the end prove and mean nothing.

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Friday, March 13, 2009 2:33 PM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Funny, that's similar to what Rush Limbaugh has said about the US news media as well.

I'm just sayin'.


Rush Limbaugh is a member of the news media. He comments on news events, which means his basically the radio equivalent of those writers who write opinion pieces in news papers. As such that might be one of the few times he's on too something, because if Rush Limbaugh's saying something, it's probably bullshit.



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Friday, March 13, 2009 2:59 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Rush is as much a part of the US News media as you are w/ the British news media. You comment on news events, which means you are basically the internet equivalent of those writers who write opinion pieces in news papers. As such that might be one of the few times I am on too something, because if citizen's saying something, it's probably bullshit.





It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

A concern of the GOP is that the people aren't informed enough to understand their policies, while a fear of the Dems is that the people ARE.

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Friday, March 13, 2009 3:19 PM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Rush is as much a part of the US News media as you are w/ the British news media. You comment on news events, which means you are basically the internet equivalent of those writers who write opinion pieces in news papers. As such that might be one of the few times I am on too something, because if citizen's saying something, it's probably bullshit.



If I were paid to comment on them, then yes. I'm not. Rush is. You're onto nothing. Instead you've basically proven you're incredibly stupid.

If you say something, we know its a lie. Ergo:
You've just proven that if I say something it's probably not bullshit, and Rush Limbaugh is definitely part of the American news media.

Thanks for the vote of confidence!



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Friday, March 13, 2009 3:39 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


It's funny to see you try to contort your own twisted logic.



It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

A concern of the GOP is that the people aren't informed enough to understand their policies, while a fear of the Dems is that the people ARE.

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Friday, March 13, 2009 3:42 PM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
It's funny to see you try to contort your own twisted logic.


You've been reading that word of the day calendar again. Given some more time you might actually know what you're talking about! Well done you.

What you need to do now is log into your sock puppet username so that you can say "well done AURaptor, put them loopy liberals in their place, you're so great!"

Then we can all laugh at the angry monkey slowly going insane.



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Friday, March 13, 2009 4:01 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


You're the one gettin' all fussy, tossin' out insults and all. Look who's the angry monkey now!



Might be past your beddie-bye time.



It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

A concern of the GOP is that the people aren't informed enough to understand their policies, while a fear of the Dems is that the people ARE.

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Friday, March 13, 2009 4:12 PM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
You're the one gettin' all fussy, tossin' out insults and all. Look who's the angry monkey now!



Might be past your beddie-bye time.


Nope, you were the first to get personal, so yep, you're the angry crazy sock puppet wielding monkey. I'm afraid no amount of lying or rewriting of posts/history will change that. I know you'll be upset by that, since those things are all you have, but that's just the way it is.

You can check if you like, I have got the quote in one of my posts though, so don't go changing yours now, it'll just make you look more of a delusional liar

You just carry on not taking responsibility for your actions, you are after all an American far right winger, not taking responsibility for your actions is basically the dictionary definition.



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Friday, March 13, 2009 4:18 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Hee hee. Now you're gettin' cranky AND delusional. All I did was to turn your own words onto yourself. I never got ' personal', you did. And you know it. That's what makes all of this so fun. You've painted yourself into a wee little corner, and now you're all angry monkey and such.

Don't go to bed angry!





It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

A concern of the GOP is that the people aren't informed enough to understand their policies, while a fear of the Dems is that the people ARE.

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Friday, March 13, 2009 4:30 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!




'nuff said.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Friday, March 13, 2009 4:32 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!




'nuff said.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Friday, March 13, 2009 4:40 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!




'nuff said.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Friday, March 13, 2009 4:41 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!




'nuff said.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Friday, March 13, 2009 5:15 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


"Looking back on it now I'm not convinced that we were wrong. I agree the post invasion planning was bad."

Some people knew there were no WMDs. Tens of millions people knew it was a war of choice, not an act of self-protection. (... those tens of millions of people who demonstrated against the war world-wide.) Even Putin had the sense to see what a quagmire it would be.

How did all those people know something you did not ? Especially when they were in the news and you had the benefit of their insights ?



***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Friday, March 13, 2009 5:38 PM

YINYANG

You were busy trying to get yourself lit on fire. It happens.


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Why is it okay to stare at a beautiful car, or a beautiful child, but not a beautiful girl?



Um, because girls are children?

Justsayinisall

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Friday, March 13, 2009 9:33 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Kerry's pic is clearly self explanatory. As for what Bush is doing to the 1 vollyball palyer, I've got no damn clue. She's explaining or demonstrating somethin, but I got nothin.



It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

A concern of the GOP is that the people aren't informed enough to understand their policies, while a fear of the Dems is that the people ARE.

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Saturday, March 14, 2009 12:35 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Hee hee. Now you're gettin' cranky AND delusional. All I did was to turn your own words onto yourself. I never got ' personal', you did.


You turned my words, directed at no one at this site, on to me, and some how that isn't personal. Hmm. That's not a delusional thing to say, but if you think anyone's going to buy it, you've pretty much just proved you're the stupidest moron on this site.

I know, you're just pissed off because I so completely owned you in that other thread so quickly you barely had time to run away! I'ts ok, just declare yourself the winner here, and we can all laugh at the delusional crazy monkey while you puff yourself up and act self important.



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Saturday, March 14, 2009 12:46 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Hee hee. Now you're gettin' cranky AND delusional. All I did was to turn your own words onto yourself. I never got ' personal', you did.


You turned my words, directed at no one at this site, on to me, and some how that isn't personal. Hmm. That's not a delusional thing to say, but if you think anyone's going to buy it, you've pretty much just proved you're the stupidest moron on this site.

I know, you're just pissed off because I so completely owned you in that other thread so quickly you barely had time to run away! I'ts ok, just declare yourself the winner here, and we can all laugh at the delusional crazy monkey while you puff yourself up and act self important.



Awww.... look who woke up cranky on a fine Saturday morn.






It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

A concern of the GOP is that the people aren't informed enough to understand their policies, while a fear of the Dems is that the people ARE.

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Saturday, March 14, 2009 2:17 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Awww.... look who woke up cranky on a fine Saturday morn.


Heh, dance for me troll, dance!



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Saturday, March 14, 2009 2:23 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Geeze, you're easier than a liquored up sorority girl.

(and I say that not as an insult, but with regret. )







It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

A concern of the GOP is that the people aren't informed enough to understand their policies, while a fear of the Dems is that the people ARE.

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Saturday, March 14, 2009 2:47 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Geeze, you're easier than a liquored up sorority girl.

(and I say that not as an insult, but with regret. )



Now roll over!



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Saturday, March 14, 2009 8:10 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Kerry's pic is clearly self explanatory. As for what Bush is doing to the 1 vollyball palyer, I've got no damn clue. She's explaining or demonstrating somethin, but I got nothin.



Spin, boy! SPIN!





Mike

I can't run no more
with that lawless crowd
while the killers in high places
say their prayers out loud.
But they've summoned, they've summoned up
a thundercloud
and they're going to hear from me.

- Anthem, by Leonard Cohen

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Saturday, March 14, 2009 8:25 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by yinyang:
Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Why is it okay to stare at a beautiful car, or a beautiful child, but not a beautiful girl?



Um, because girls are children?

Justsayinisall

Excuse me, I meant young woman.


The corrected Chrisisall

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Saturday, March 14, 2009 8:27 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
As for what Bush is doing to the 1 vollyball palyer, I've got no damn clue.

Of course not, you like Bush better, so you can accept him staring at a young woman.


The laughing Chrisisall

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Saturday, March 14, 2009 11:11 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
As for what Bush is doing to the 1 vollyball palyer, I've got no damn clue.

Of course not, you like Bush better, so you can accept him staring at a young woman.


The laughing Chrisisall



The two photos are not anywhere near the same, thus there's no comparison. Liking W or not, isn't the issue.



It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

A concern of the GOP is that the people aren't informed enough to understand their policies, while a fear of the Dems is that the people ARE.

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Saturday, March 14, 2009 11:38 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

The two photos are not anywhere near the same, thus there's no comparison. Liking W or not, isn't the issue.


LOL, of course, looking at a female's ass is much more respectful than looking at a female's boobs. It's the curve of the neck that delineates the offense, I forgot, sorry your worshipfullness.


The laughing Chrisisall

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Saturday, March 14, 2009 12:18 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

The two photos are not anywhere near the same, thus there's no comparison. Liking W or not, isn't the issue.


LOL, of course, looking at a female's ass is much more respectful than looking at a female's boobs. It's the curve of the neck that delineates the offense, I forgot, sorry your worshipfullness.


The laughing Chrisisall



Yeah, looking down her top is BAD and creepy, but smacking her on the ass shows respect!

Mike

I can't run no more
with that lawless crowd
while the killers in high places
say their prayers out loud.
But they've summoned, they've summoned up
a thundercloud
and they're going to hear from me.

- Anthem, by Leonard Cohen

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Sunday, March 15, 2009 2:59 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Bush is clearly not smacking anyone on their ass in the pic above. Looks like he's knocking sand off the woman's lower back, with the back of his hand, well above her hind quarters. And he appears to be doing what ever it is w/ her consent, while Kerry is obviously sneaking a peek at young coeds, younger than his own daughter, while they obliviously mug for the camera.



It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

A concern of the GOP is that the people aren't informed enough to understand their policies, while a fear of the Dems is that the people ARE.

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Sunday, March 15, 2009 3:11 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Is he "sneaking a peek" or is he "staring"?

You're not making any sense!

And what on Earth is wrong with sneaking a peek anyway?

Mike



The "On Fire" Economy -
The Dow closed at 10,587.60 on January 20, 2001, the day GW Bush took office. Eight years later, it closed below 8000 on the day he left office - a net loss of 25%. That's what conservatives call an economic "success".

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Sunday, March 15, 2009 3:20 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Now you're just being silly.


Neat sig, though.



It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

A concern of the GOP is that the people aren't informed enough to understand their policies, while a fear of the Dems is that the people ARE.

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Sunday, March 15, 2009 3:34 AM

AGENTROUKA


Did anyone notice that the other girl in the Kerry picture is looking in the same direction?

Maybe the girl's chest is particuarly mesmerizing, maybe they are looking at something below her chest, maybe she's holding something... The picture makes him look bad, but just like the Bush picture, I figure it probably wasn't a creepy old man thing.


Anyway, sneaking a peek is almost involuntary, for men and woman both. Staring is creepy, but I doubt this was happening here.


And Bush's hand is definitely aiming for her back. It's a weird tableau, but definitely nothing disrespectful.

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Sunday, March 15, 2009 10:29 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
I can fully understand why someone might have voted for him the first time, by why in the name of Our Dear & Fluffy Lord would ANYONE have voted for him the second time? Were they SO scared of the terrorists taking over? Was that it?

Comments? Theories?


The laughing Chrisisall


Because we were smart enough NOT to vote for John Kerry. Maybe if the Democrats had put up a candidate, it might have been different, it's not like there isn't a decent Democrat in existence - but just that the party won't allow a reasonable person in the top ticket.



Yeah, but you say that as if it's something only the Dems are guilty of! :) Plenty enough of that syndrome going around BOTH parties, to be honest.

Mike



You will not find me claiming that the GOP did not fail to put up a viable candidate in 2008. RINO McCain was the recent version of Dole in 1996, a worse liberal than Obama.
You have successfully made a valid point. Bravo.

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Monday, March 16, 2009 2:26 AM

RIPWASH


Man, I know I'm gonna get blasted for this, but . . .

A point I like to make is that the likes of Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and Glenn Beck . . . they've all made no bones about it. They're conservatives and they approach their shows from that point of view. They are commentating on politics from a certain slant. From their own personal beliefs and values. It's completely different, in my opinion, to claim to be an unbiased news media outlet like CNN or MSNBC and have the news anchors be so completely in one corner of the political landscape. Chris Matthews gushed about Obama and said he got a flutter up his leg during one of Obama's speaches and claims it's HIS job to make sure Obama succeeds. He never made such claims (that I know of) during the Bush administration.

All I'm sayin', ladies and gents, is that there's a reason that Rush, Hannity and Beck are the highest rated talk show hosts in the U.S. People want to hear what they have to say. There's also a reason that Air America failed so miserably. No one listened despite all the fanfair and talent. Advertisers want to support programs that make them money and the same goes for radio stations. Like it or not. Poeple are in business to make money. That's what makes the world go 'round.

I also saw above a quote about the stock market starting at 10,000 and ending at 8,000 for Bush's administration. But the fact of the matter is that the stock market hit record highs in between that time also.

Zoe: "Get it running again."
Mal: "Yeah"
Zoe: "So not running now"
Mal: "Not so much"
- Out of Gas

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Monday, March 16, 2009 3:50 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by RIPWash:
It's completely different, in my opinion, to claim to be an unbiased news media outlet like CNN or MSNBC and have the news anchors be so completely in one corner of the political landscape.


FOX News is by far the worst offender there.



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Monday, March 16, 2009 4:11 AM

RIPWASH


That's what a lot of people on the left think, but again that's a matter of opinion depending on what side of the political spectrum you're on.

Look at it this way. Everything is a matter of personal opinion. People on the left see hate speech on the right and vice versa. Some of it warranted, some not. Being what I would call a conservative (but perhaps more libertarian), I see a LOT more hate-filled speech coming from the left. But that's just my opinion. I don't have any hatred for the left, so you'll see none from me, hopefully, but I do hope you call me on it if you do. Everyone on this forum is well-informed and I respect your views. I may not agree and will respectfully tell you so and hope you do the same for me. So far so good I've made no enemies that I can tell so far.

At any rate . . .

I don't recall hearing any anchor on Fox gush over McCain the way CNN and MSNBC gushed over Obama. What I heard (in my opinion), for example, was Fox questioning of why a fuss was being made over how many houses McCain could remember owning vs. the overlooking of Obama's ties to . . . yup, I'm gonna mention them . . . Bill Ayers and Kaleed Rashidi (not sure of the spelling on that one). The only yelling I've ever heard on Fox News was by someone on the Left getting upset over a common sense question being asked of them and their refusal to answer adequately.

I for one, was not a super strong supporter of McCain, but he was a far better choice, in my personal opinion, than Obama. And Obama has already, in less than 60 days, renigged on two major campaign promises. 1) to not allow lobbyists in his cabinet, he's now got several and 2) to disallow any pork barrell projects or earmarks in any bill, the stimulous package had over 8,000 lines of earmarks and pork. He also promised, in the last debate, to "take a scalpel" to the budget and eliminate projects that didn't work and expand those that did. So far, a proposed 8-9% increase in the budget.

That said, I hope that Obama succeeds in making this country stronger. I would be a fool to wish him otherwise. If what he does makes America stronger, great. But if not, then my fears were proven correct. Only time will tell. But so far . . . it ain't lookin' that good.

Zoe: "Get it running again."
Mal: "Yeah"
Zoe: "So not running now"
Mal: "Not so much"
- Out of Gas

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Monday, March 16, 2009 4:28 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by RIPWash:
I don't recall hearing any anchor on Fox gush over McCain the way CNN and MSNBC gushed over Obama. What I heard (in my opinion), for example, was Fox questioning of why a fuss was being made over how many houses McCain could remember owning vs. the overlooking of Obama's ties to . . . yup, I'm gonna mention them . . . Bill Ayers and Kaleed Rashidi (not sure of the spelling on that one). The only yelling I've ever heard on Fox News was by someone on the Left getting upset over a common sense question being asked of them and their refusal to answer adequately.


I wouldn't call any of America's televised media in the slightest biased to the left. Whether that's Left as much of the developed world understands it, or the left as America does. I don't really see how it could be a matter of my own biases, though I know I have them they're not in play in this circumstance, because as far as I'm concerned FOX News, CNN, MSNBC, Republicans and Democrats are all right wing, and I'm not prepared to vote for either Republicans or Democrats even if I had the opportunity to do so. In fact my prefered newspaper over here is the Independent, loony liberal that I am.

Regardless, any bias of all those outlets isn't my bias, or anything like, so I don't think my biases would lead to any appreciable difference in the way I judge the bias of those stations, because I'm simply not on your political spectrum. As such I've seen most US media put a filter on their news, the way they report it, what they report, but FOX News, uniquely, has out right lied, blatantly so, either by omission, or plain making stuff up. There was a thread on here a year or so ago where they got caught out doing just that.



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Monday, March 16, 2009 4:42 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by RIPWash:
Man, I know I'm gonna get blasted for this, but . . .

A point I like to make is that the likes of Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and Glenn Beck . . . they've all made no bones about it. They're conservatives and they approach their shows from that point of view. They are commentating on politics from a certain slant. From their own personal beliefs and values. It's completely different, in my opinion, to claim to be an unbiased news media outlet like CNN or MSNBC and have the news anchors be so completely in one corner of the political landscape. Chris Matthews gushed about Obama and said he got a flutter up his leg during one of Obama's speaches and claims it's HIS job to make sure Obama succeeds. He never made such claims (that I know of) during the Bush administration.

All I'm sayin', ladies and gents, is that there's a reason that Rush, Hannity and Beck are the highest rated talk show hosts in the U.S. People want to hear what they have to say. There's also a reason that Air America failed so miserably. No one listened despite all the fanfair and talent. Advertisers want to support programs that make them money and the same goes for radio stations. Like it or not. Poeple are in business to make money. That's what makes the world go 'round.

I also saw above a quote about the stock market starting at 10,000 and ending at 8,000 for Bush's administration. But the fact of the matter is that the stock market hit record highs in between that time also.

Zoe: "Get it running again."
Mal: "Yeah"
Zoe: "So not running now"
Mal: "Not so much"
- Out of Gas



I don't know about "blasted", but I definitely disagree...

I don't find Back, Hannity, or Limbaugh to be reflective of mainstream conservatism. They're fringe, they're far-right, they're the extreme. I don't believe that Rush honestly believes the majority of the stuff he spews on the air. For instance, do you REALLY think that Rush believes that all drug addicts and abusers should be in prison, without exception? If so, why hasn't he checked himself in to prison? Why didn't he ask the judge to throw the book at him? Because in HIS case, at least, he sees addiction as a disease.

And as far as I've ever heard, MSNBC isn't claiming to be unbiased. Indeed, they wear their biases on their sleeves for all the world to see. During the campaign, it was painfully obvious to anyone watching that Chris Matthews was solidly in the Hillary camp and Keith Olbermann was solidly in the Obama camp. They didn't necessarily SLAM each other's picks, but it was pretty clear who each was hoping would win. I don't know, maybe it has to do with Olbermann's history and his coverage of the Clinton regime during the impeachment and the Whitewater investigation, but there's something about Hillary that really puts him off.

A better analogy of biased reportage would really come from Fox. They actually went so far as to copyright the phrase "Fair and Balancedâ„¢", when they are so clearly anything BUT.

As to people wanting to hear what Rush and Company have to say, well... sure. But that was kind of the point made by Howard Stern way back when, too - it wasn't that he was RIGHT, just that he was OUTRAGEOUS. Even people who hated him would tune in to, in their words, "see what he says next". The fact that they're pulling in ratings doesn't mean they're right, it doesn't mean they're saying what people are thinking; it just means they're saying things outlandish enough to keep people listening. If their views were the popular views, then gods help us all, because Simon Cowell just became the smartest person in America! ;)

I find it odd that conservatives bring up the failure of Air America (actually, it's still alive, much to my surprise; I thought it went belly-up years ago - but they just pulled out of Austin, not out of existence), yet those self-same conservatives ALSO continually, endlessly point out the "liberal media bias" that pervaded the airwaves and rules the country. If anything, isn't the failure of Air America to find a wide audience, and the ability of the likes of Rush, O'Reilly, et al, TO find a wide audience, proof that there IS no left-wing bias?

As for the stock market quote... that was me. I merely point it out for the likes of AuRaptor, who endlessly trots out the "but, but, but... FOURTEEN THOUSAND! THE DOW WAS AT FOURTEEN THOUSAND!", as if a peak is the entire analysis of the economy. It's not. Yes, it peaked quite high, but it finished below where it started - and to me, that doesn't sound like the mark of a roaring economy or a successful presidency.

Just sayin'...

Mike



The "On Fire" Economy -
The Dow closed at 10,587.60 on January 20, 2001, the day GW Bush took office. Eight years later, it closed below 8000 on the day he left office - a net loss of 25%. That's what conservatives call an economic "success".

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Monday, March 16, 2009 4:42 AM

RIPWASH


I would be very interested in seeing that thread. Could someone please find it and post the link?

All I can say is that in American terms of the American media being biased toward Obama is that after he was elected, Tom Brokaw, "America's Anchorman" admitted to not knowing much about Obama. Who's fault was that? McCain and Palin were scrutinized, but Obama was practically ignored.

I don't mean to argue Citizen, but personal bias does leak into perceptions of the world around us. I admit it freely. The way I perceive things is based on my personal views and values. As an American citizen, I look at the American media and wonder what on earth they are thinking. My reference to ABC news, for example. They had a report in 1999 that detailed the relationship between Hussein and Bin Laden. They later rely on a government report to say there was no relationship. They don't mention their earlier report to contest the later one. Why? I can only see that as the news media, ABC in this instance, refusing to admit, "Hey we did a report a few years ago that confirms the Bush adminstration's claims." You might see it otherwise, and I respect that, but it's plain as day to me.

Zoe: "Get it running again."
Mal: "Yeah"
Zoe: "So not running now"
Mal: "Not so much"
- Out of Gas

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Monday, March 16, 2009 4:51 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

the stimulous package had over 8,000 lines of earmarks and pork. He also promised, in the last debate, to "take a scalpel" to the budget and eliminate projects that didn't work and expand those that did. So far, a proposed 8-9% increase in the budget.




Couple points of clarification:

1) Those earmarks number some 9000 - yet that is STILL less than 2% of the proposed spending. And 40% of those earmarks were inserted by Republicans, so it's hardly a Democrat free-for-all.

2) A propsed 8-9% increase in the budget WHICH NOW INCLUDES THE IRAQ/AFGHANISTAN WAR SPENDING. Please be clear on this in the future. Bush's budgets never included any war spending; that was always addressed through "emergency funding" bills, and left out of the yearly budgets. So that 8-9% increase may well result in a SMALLER budget if you take the war spending into account.



Mike



The "On Fire" Economy -
The Dow closed at 10,587.60 on January 20, 2001, the day GW Bush took office. Eight years later, it closed below 8000 on the day he left office - a net loss of 25%. That's what conservatives call an economic "success".

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Monday, March 16, 2009 5:12 AM

RIPWASH


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

the stimulous package had over 8,000 lines of earmarks and pork. He also promised, in the last debate, to "take a scalpel" to the budget and eliminate projects that didn't work and expand those that did. So far, a proposed 8-9% increase in the budget.




Couple points of clarification:

1) Those earmarks number some 9000 - yet that is STILL less than 2% of the proposed spending. And 40% of those earmarks were inserted by Republicans, so it's hardly a Democrat free-for-all.

2) A propsed 8-9% increase in the budget WHICH NOW INCLUDES THE IRAQ/AFGHANISTAN WAR SPENDING. Please be clear on this in the future. Bush's budgets never included any war spending; that was always addressed through "emergency funding" bills, and left out of the yearly budgets. So that 8-9% increase may well result in a SMALLER budget if you take the war spending into account.



Mike



The "On Fire" Economy -
The Dow closed at 10,587.60 on January 20, 2001, the day GW Bush took office. Eight years later, it closed below 8000 on the day he left office - a net loss of 25%. That's what conservatives call an economic "success".



Yes, the Republicans inserting those are just as guilty as anyone else - and they could be those pesky RINO's, too. Who knows? . My point, however, was that Obama promised to cut the earmarks out and he did not, regardless of the percentage. Still a sizeable chunk when you think about it in terms of dollar figures, not percentages. He should have stood his ground and said he wasn't going to pass the bill until those earmarks were taken out.

In terms of the budget, the bottom line is all people are ever really going to care about. If he was going to include the war spending, he still should have kept his promise to eliminate programs that aren't working. I have not heard if he has done this or not. In my view, he didn't take a scalpel to the budget, he opened the floodgates with the stimulus package.

Again . . . and I can't emphasize this enough . . . I want this President to succeed, but right now all he's doing is making me scratch my head.

Zoe: "Get it running again."
Mal: "Yeah"
Zoe: "So not running now"
Mal: "Not so much"
- Out of Gas

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Monday, March 16, 2009 5:56 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:


That's what a lot of people on the left think, but again that's a matter of opinion depending on what side of the political spectrum you're on.

Look at it this way. Everything is a matter of personal opinion. People on the left see hate speech on the right and vice versa. Some of it warranted, some not. Being what I would call a conservative (but perhaps more libertarian), I see a LOT more hate-filled speech coming from the left. But that's just my opinion.



That's what a lot of people on EITHER side think, to be blunt about it. Whichever side you're on, you see hate speech coming from the other side, but rarely your own. After all, if you're BEING called a "surrender monkey", it's probably more likely to seem offensive, whereas those who HEAR someone else being called such, doesn't strike them as offensive in the least.

In other words, we're somewhat programmed to hear the things from "the other guy" that we're vehemently opposed to, or that we're offended by, and we tend to tune out the stuff that we agree with or even that only mildly annoys us. So when you, as someone on the right, hears someone on the left go on a long diatribe against one of your favorite politicians, you tend to only focus on the negative parts, which your mind labels "hate speech". And if you were to then hear someone from your side go on a similar diatribe about the evils of the other side, you'd hear things you're pretty much in agreement with, which reinforce your already-held notions instead of challenging them, so your ming doesn't register any of it as offensive or hateful.

As you say, YOU see more of it coming from the Left. I, as a liberal, see much more of it coming from the Right. Like I said, in a way we're programmed to see it that way, because we already have our own internal biases that we've formed over the years...

Just another way of looking at it, and something to think about.

Mike



The "On Fire" Economy -
The Dow closed at 10,587.60 on January 20, 2001, the day GW Bush took office. Eight years later, it closed below 8000 on the day he left office - a net loss of 25%. That's what conservatives call an economic "success".

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Monday, March 16, 2009 6:02 AM

RIPWASH


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:


That's what a lot of people on the left think, but again that's a matter of opinion depending on what side of the political spectrum you're on.

Look at it this way. Everything is a matter of personal opinion. People on the left see hate speech on the right and vice versa. Some of it warranted, some not. Being what I would call a conservative (but perhaps more libertarian), I see a LOT more hate-filled speech coming from the left. But that's just my opinion.



That's what a lot of people on EITHER side think, to be blunt about it. Whichever side you're on, you see hate speech coming from the other side, but rarely your own. After all, if you're BEING called a "surrender monkey", it's probably more likely to seem offensive, whereas those who HEAR someone else being called such, doesn't strike them as offensive in the least.

In other words, we're somewhat programmed to hear the things from "the other guy" that we're vehemently opposed to, or that we're offended by, and we tend to tune out the stuff that we agree with or even that only mildly annoys us. So when you, as someone on the right, hears someone on the left go on a long diatribe against one of your favorite politicians, you tend to only focus on the negative parts, which your mind labels "hate speech". And if you were to then hear someone from your side go on a similar diatribe about the evils of the other side, you'd hear things you're pretty much in agreement with, which reinforce your already-held notions instead of challenging them, so your ming doesn't register any of it as offensive or hateful.

As you say, YOU see more of it coming from the Left. I, as a liberal, see much more of it coming from the Right. Like I said, in a way we're programmed to see it that way, because we already have our own internal biases that we've formed over the years...

Just another way of looking at it, and something to think about.

Mike



The "On Fire" Economy -
The Dow closed at 10,587.60 on January 20, 2001, the day GW Bush took office. Eight years later, it closed below 8000 on the day he left office - a net loss of 25%. That's what conservatives call an economic "success".



Well said, my friend. Love the CHANGE poster, btw. That made me laugh out loud.

Zoe: "Get it running again."
Mal: "Yeah"
Zoe: "So not running now"
Mal: "Not so much"
- Out of Gas

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Monday, March 16, 2009 7:08 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by RIPWash:
I don't mean to argue Citizen, but personal bias does leak into perceptions of the world around us.


It's something I totally accept, I just don't see how it can change my comparative estimations between the two, as my biases would seem to colour both equally.



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