REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Breaking news - Obama admin will NOT press charges of 'TORTURE' on CIA agents.

POSTED BY: AURAPTOR
UPDATED: Thursday, April 23, 2009 11:59
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 3309
PAGE 3 of 3

Monday, April 20, 2009 1:04 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
I've ignored your childish grammar nazi comments because it's not relevant to the issue. You think you're being clever and cute.....




You've ignored my comments because you're honestly too fucking stupid to figure out how to write correctly. I don't think I'm being clever and cute - I think I'm trying to educate your backwoods stupid ass! And you so desperately need it, really.

But instead of learning the lesson and correcting your mistakes, you just bull on like the true and total troll you are.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, April 20, 2009 1:05 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

so he's taking his ball and going home!

I was unaware he had ANY balls, myself.

I'd require verification of that assessment prior to accepting it - you have a cite ?

-F

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, April 20, 2009 1:12 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Mike,

You're such a fucking dick head. Seriously. Among a laundry list of ridiculous, arbitrary bullshit that Osama listed in his ' fatwa' , that we came and kicked Saddam's ass was only the most recent. If you or anyone gives credence to that psychopathic killer, then you're as sick as he is / was or what ever.




NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, April 20, 2009 1:14 PM

RIGHTEOUS9




Never thought he would. Still don't think he'll go after anybody, inspite of a daily landslide of information about wiretaps, torture memos, etc. etc.

Note, he left the door open for people at the top, who authorized such activity to be charged.

..................

As to this issue, I suppose I'm torn between the Rorcrhek "black and white" of it and the Dr. Manhattan "analytical measurement of good vs. harm" approach to the issue.

Forgive me, I just came from the Watchmen thread.

We are at a particularly complicated juncture in American Politics.

We have rabid corruption in our government that has gone on for years, and got particularly wacky in the last 8. We have democrats and republicans who are implicated. Take Representative Harman as an example.

So many criminals, so much power that they still wield in our government.

and on top of it, we have a Ginormous financial crisis. The country's wheels have fallen off, and we're trying desperately to get some spares on it.

I'll admit that my assesment of the situation still leans towards optimism for Obama. There are plenty of more cynical interpretations, taht can be found on all sides of these issues.

I think that if we just take as an example, the 10's of people that came out for the tea-parties, a couple hundred thousand across the country or so? and the rabid talk about revolution, etc. that is being ginned up by the right-wing propaganda machine(and fox news has been nothing but a cheerleader for the tea-baggers)

the very party and the very mouthpiece that helped us get into this mess by not covering a damn thing that the Bush administration was doing,

I think those crowds could have been double or even tripple with prosecutions. Why? Because media in this country has come to be perceived as so partisan, that if Fox, and Limbaugh, etc. chose to cover prosecutions as a witch hunt, if they chose to wash over the facts, their converted would still believe them.

If they could add fuel to their low burning fire about a "totalitarian" Obamanation, by using prosecutions as examples of it, they could have something quite volatile in their hands. couple that with a Democratic Party that probably has a considerable handful of corrupt politicians in it, that would have to go down also,

I think that we would be hearing a sudden bi-partisan song about how Obama is politicizing the justice department, and enough people would believe it.

If nothing else, Obamas numbers would tank. In the midst of immediate crisis, he needs as much political capital as possible to pass legislation taht he thinks is neccesary.

I happen to think his policies are on the right track, though he's often appeasing the wrong crowd, who aren't going to side with him anyway. "H1-B visas are neccesary for us to remain competitive..." seriously?

which leads ultimately to the question...what is more important...

do we let everything burn, and hope that something emerges out of the ashes of a totally gridlocked congress and populace?

Or do we try to fix the urgent financial crisis, allowing that we may have truly turned the Constituion into just a piece of Paper, if not in idealism, in any meaningful authority...a door mat for future administrations...blah blah...

hmmm..I'm out of time to try to edit this...I'll just post as is.


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, April 20, 2009 1:20 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Mike,

That you think you're more intelligent than me and that's why you insist on harping on 1 missing letter instead of dealing w/ the bigger issue only shows what a true punk and gutless coward.




NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, April 20, 2009 1:21 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Mike,

You're such a fucking dick head. Seriously. Among a laundry list of ridiculous, arbitrary bullshit that Osama listed in his ' fatwa' , that we came and kicked Saddam's ass was only the most recent. If you or anyone gives credence to that psychopathic killer, then you're as sick as he is / was or what ever.





Didn't you give him credence, just above, when you were talking about the fatwa and his training camps? Or do you only give credence to Osama when he's against Clinton?

More of your typical trollish truculence...

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, April 20, 2009 1:25 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
You're a complete and total troll. I'm sorry for having wasted my time w/ you Sig. My problem is that while I've been trying to have a sincere and honest dialog, you've been simply playing the contrarian, and making light of this entire message board exercise.

I gave you a specific example from the actual report, showed you what it says, and you simply want to believe what you want. "Screw the Facts ", that's your motto.
Nothing you post is in the least bit honest or sincere. If I said the sky was blue, you'd call it orange and then say I was a liar.

I'm done w/ this game.



In other words, Rappy doesn't like to play by the rules he demands others play by,
Mike




No, I play by the rules I set out for myself and anyone else honest enough to play along. You're clearly not, so instead, you make federal cases out of common mistyped words, as if that's some how the be all/ end all indicator of the intellect of a person.

It isn't , not by a long shot, but you're such a fucking douche bag that you'd rather harp on THE most trivial of matters and ignore the over all points.

Yeah, you kinda are like Osama Bin Laden, come to think of it.






NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, April 20, 2009 1:26 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Mike,

That you think you're more intelligent than me and that's why you insist on harping on 1 missing letter instead of dealing w/ the bigger issue only shows what a true punk and gutless coward.





Actually, it's not "1 missing letter" - it's one letter missing EVERY SINGLE TIME YOU TRY TO USE THE WORD! And that one missing letter changes the meaning of what you're trying to say. If you aren't interested in communicating more effectively, then I can't help you. You end up looking as sad and silly as WhoZit; if that's fine with you, so be it.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, April 20, 2009 1:27 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:

Didn't you give him credence, just above, when you were talking about the fatwa and his training camps? Or do you only give credence to Osama when he's against Clinton?

More of your typical trollish truculence...



Nope, I gave him zero credence, what so ever. I just mentioned his so called 'Fatwa'. He's killed a few folks since issuing that piece of crap, if you hadn't noticed.

You attempting to say I gave him any credence is just more of the same. Your bullshit , avoiding the issue, because you're too much of a punk.







NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, April 20, 2009 1:30 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:


It isn't , not by a long shot, but you're such a fucking douche bag that you'd rather harp on THE most trivial of matters and ignore the over all points.



So when you say that Bush NEVER SAID "imminent threat", and are shown clearly where many in his administration, including his own spokespeople whose job it is to speak for the President, used just those words, and when you're shown that Bush himself used phrases like "grave threat", "urgent threat", and the like...

... you're saying that you AREN'T harping on the trivial details and ignoring the overall point?

Is that really how you want to play it?

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, April 20, 2009 1:33 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Kwicko wrote:
Monday, April 20, 2009 13:26

Actually, it's not "1 missing letter" -




Yes, it's 1 missing letter, because as soon as you acted like a dick head and tried to ask which ONE, I knew what the fuck you were doing, and didn't dignify it, in hopes you'd grow the hell up and move on.

Instead, you have the mental capacity of a 7 yr old, and it shows.

An 7 yr old suffering from a horrific case of A.D.D.




NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, April 20, 2009 1:34 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:

Didn't you give him credence, just above, when you were talking about the fatwa and his training camps? Or do you only give credence to Osama when he's against Clinton?

More of your typical trollish truculence...



Nope, I gave him zero credence, what so ever. I just mentioned his so called 'Fatwa'. He's killed a few folks since issuing that piece of crap, if you hadn't noticed.

You attempting to say I gave him any credence is just more of the same. Your bullshit , avoiding the issue, because you're too much of a punk.




Well, apparently you give him enough credence that you're absolutely fine with torturing people to try to get info on where he is and what he's planning, so I don't think you can say you give him "zero credence, what so ever"... Clearly, you do. You give him enough credence that you've been living in fear for over seven years now, and you continue to cower at the thought of "the terrorist" coming to get you.

So, yeah, you DO give the man credence.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, April 20, 2009 1:36 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Kwicko wrote:
Monday, April 20, 2009 13:26

Actually, it's not "1 missing letter" -




Yes, it's 1 missing letter, because as soon as you acted like a dick head and tried to ask which ONE, I knew what the fuck you were doing, and didn't dignify it, in hopes you'd grow the hell up and move on.

Instead, you have the mental capacity of a 7 yr old, and it shows.

An 7 yr old suffering from a horrific case of A.D.D.




But one who can learn to use the correct form of the words he chooses, which puts me far ahead of you, developmentally speaking. :)

And if I'm such a punk and a douchebag, why is it that you're letting such a punk school your ass? You claim to be intelligent, yet produce no proof!

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, April 20, 2009 1:39 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

ignore the bigger issues
Like, the one that makes you piss your pants? The on that trumps the Constitution, rule of law, logic, reason, and facts?

THAT "bigger issue"?

This from the guy who can't even bring one fact to the table? One shred of evidence to support his butt-puckering fear of being targeted as an "enemy of the state"?

The one who can't point to a single thing that Dodd and Frank DID to cause the worldwide collapse of capitalism. Who clams that even out-of-power dems can control the flow of legislation, but can't describe how?

Log, meet mote.


BWAHAHAHAHA!!!



---------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, April 20, 2009 1:49 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:

Well, apparently you give him enough credence that you're absolutely fine with torturing people to try to get info on where he is and what he's planning, so I don't think you can say you give him "zero credence, what so ever"... Clearly, you do. You give him enough credence that you've been living in fear for over seven years now, and you continue to cower at the thought of "the terrorist" coming to get you.

So, yeah, you DO give the man credence.

Mike




You don't know the difference between giving credence for the reasons why a religious zealot justifies murdering 1000's of innocent people, and declaring that's just the beginning of his holy war, and knowing who's to BLAME.

Yeah, I guess Christopher Hitchens and I are both scared little bitches who are making up this shit about the Islamo-fascist for pure kicks. The level of the ignorance the Left shows never cases to amaze.

You're such an idiot.




NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, April 20, 2009 1:52 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:

ignore the bigger issues
Like, the one that makes you piss your pants? The on that trumps the Constitution, rule of law, logic, reason, and facts?




Wow, you must be the dumbest person ever to post on any message board in the history of Al Gore's internet.

At least, according to Kwickie.

Not me, of course.


P.S. There were no such 'issues' as you claim which trumped the Constitution, rule of law, reason OR facts.





NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, April 20, 2009 2:42 PM

ELVISCHRIST


Has any one noticed a pattern in AuRaptor's responses?

The more hits his arguments take below the waterline, the more he lashes out and resorts to name-calling.

Just in this thread, he's called various posters

"asshole"

"douche bag"

"fucking dick head"

"moron"

"punk"

"idiot"

"dense"

"full of partisan bullshit"

"gutless coward"

Funny. Especially considering his claims that he's being "insult free!"

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, April 20, 2009 2:44 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:


Yeah, I guess Christopher Hitchens and I are both scared little bitches who are making up this shit about the Islamo-fascist for pure kicks.



Which fascist are you referring to again, dummy?

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, April 20, 2009 2:51 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


I love cherry picked quotes. That's great, EC. I 'had' been insult free, for a time, in attempts to TRY to raise the bar here. Didn't deter any on the Left to keep on hurling insults of their own. Funny, you somehow didn't have time to cherry pick THOSE. Gee, wonder why.

Fact is, NONE of my arguments were taking ANY hits , below or above the water line. That's what was so aggravating, as the usual suspects were hell bent on ignoring the points, and instead ,( much like your own self ) trying to vilify the messenger instead.




NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, April 20, 2009 2:53 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:


Yeah, I guess Christopher Hitchens and I are both scared little bitches who are making up this shit about the Islamo-fascist for pure kicks.



Which fascist are you referring to again, dummy?

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.



We were talking about Osama Bin Laden, remember ? Dummy.

God, you're such a complete idiot. How did your brain even learn human speech?







NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, April 20, 2009 4:05 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:


Yeah, I guess Christopher Hitchens and I are both scared little bitches who are making up this shit about the Islamo-fascist for pure kicks.



Which fascist are you referring to again, dummy?

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.



We were talking about Osama Bin Laden, remember ? Dummy.

God, you're such a complete idiot. How did your brain even learn human speech?



Much better than you learned to write it, apparently.

And I couldn't tell if you were referencing ONE "Islamo-fascist", or a whole group of them, since you are incapable of learning how to pluralize the word. See the confusion caused when you can't learn how to use the proper words? If you'd stop being so pig-headedly stupid about it and start using the correct words, it would go a long way towards making your true meaning more clear.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, April 20, 2009 4:28 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


There's no confusion, you're just being a dick head because you're too much of a clueless sycophant of the America sucks crowd to be able to even THINK for yourself, so the best you can do is hyper amplify the most trivial of matters.




NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, April 20, 2009 4:33 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
There's no confusion, you're just being a dick head because you're too much of a clueless sycophant of the America sucks crowd to be able to even THINK for yourself, so the best you can do is hyper amplify the most trivial of matters.





Awwww... Did Rush Limbaugh tell you to say that?

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, April 20, 2009 4:41 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Thanks for continuing to prove me right. Nothing you say is of any substance or significance.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, April 20, 2009 6:04 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


So it only took 183 waterboardings PER PRISONER PER MONTH to get a false confession to 9.11...

Khalid Shaikh Mohammed even confessed to crimes that had not happened yet.

Quote:

The C.I.A. officers used waterboarding at least 83 times in August 2002 against Abu Zubaydah, according to a 2005 Justice Department legal memorandum. Abu Zubaydah has been described as a Qaeda operative.

A former C.I.A. officer, John Kiriakou, told ABC News and other news media organizations in 2007 that Abu Zubaydah had undergone waterboarding for only 35 seconds before agreeing to tell everything he knew.

The 2005 memo also says that the C.I.A. used waterboarding 183 times in March 2003 against Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, the self-described planner of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

www.nytimes.com/2009/04/20/world/20detain.html



False confession? No way!

CIA gave Obama a standing ovation today at Langley for promising to never arrest CIA agents for their crimes.

Quote:

"I would like to assure the world that I did not plan the recent attacks.”
—Usama bin Laden, CNN, "Bin Laden says he wasn't behind attacks," September 17, 2001


http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/16/inv.binladen.denial/

"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming."
—Dick Cheney, "Interview of the Vice President by Tony Snow", March 29, 2006


www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2006/03/20060329-2.html



"The FBI added Adam Gadahn to the Most Wanted Terrorist list and the U.S. State Department is offering a reward up to $1 million for his arrest. A 28-year-old California man has been indicted on federal charges of treason and providing material support to a terrorist group for making a series of propaganda videotapes for al Qaeda, including one in which he praised the hijackers involved in the 9/11 attacks. 'Adam Gadahn represents a new breed of home-grown extremist, who has chosen to betray the country of his birth,' FBI Executive Assistant Director Willie Hulon said during a press conference Wednesday in Washington, D.C."
-FBI Most Wanted
www.fbi.gov/page2/oct2006/gadahn101106.htm

"In Sept of last year, Adam Gadahn [aka Adam Perlman], the son of Jewish parents, the son of Jewish grandparents [who are on the board of directors of Jewish ADL] in Southern California, who himself converted to Islam, went on to become Osama Bin Laden's spokesman."
-Congresswoman Jane Harman (D-CA), Jewish chairman, Homeland Security Subcommittee on Intelligence, Information Sharing, and Terrorism Risk Assessment, CSPAN, Use of the Internet by Terrorists: Using the Web as a Weapon for 9/11 Truth, November 6, 2007
www.piratenews.org/flight93.html

Jew Rep Harman Caught on NSA Tape Agreeing to Lobby for Israel Spies = TREASON
www.republicbroadcasting.org/?p=1364



"The FBI has issued a BOLO on suspected terrorists driving a white delivery van from New York City to the Mexican border. The suspects are using Israeli passports. They are armed and dangerous."
-Knox County TN Emergency 911 Dispatch, Sept 11, 2001, 11am EST
www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0622-05.htm
www.whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/fiveisraelis.html



60 Terminator drone attacks kill 14 ‘al-Qaeda’ men, 687 civilians
www.republicbroadcasting.org/?p=1195

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, April 20, 2009 9:43 PM

GINOBIFFARONI


Nearly ready to write Obama off as only being slightly different than Bush or Clinton

Same paranoid bullshit, only packaged and marketed differently.

I am now eagerly waiting for your new civil war to start.



http://english.aljazeera.net/news/americas/2009/04/2009420195530984631
.html



News Americas
Obama defends torture data release

Barack Obama has been criticised over his decision
to release memos authorising torture [AFP]

Barack Obama, the US president, has sought to reassure CIA employees concerned after the government released memos detailing the torture of al-Qaeda suspects.

Obama, on his first visit to the CIA's headquarters as president, told employees that he released the memos because much of the material in them "had been publicly acknowledged".

"The covert nature of the information had been compromised. I have fought to protect the integrity of classified documents in the past and will do in the future," Obama said on Monday in the US state of Virginia.

The documents include justice department memos from 2002 and 2005 approving the CIA's use of interrogation techniques including "waterboarding", which simulates the sensation of drowning.

Obama said he understood CIA concerns that they were being asked to work under tighter regulations but that was what made the US "special".

Fault Lines on Obama's take on the 'war on terror'
"I understand that it's hard when you are asked to protect the American people against people who have no scruples, and would willingly and gladly kill innocents,'' the president said.

"I believe our nation is stronger and more secure when we deploy the full measure of both our power and the power of our values, including the rule of law. I know I can count on you to do exactly that,'' he said.

But the visit has been overshadowed by a New York Times report that CIA interrogators waterboarded Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, who has confessed to planning the September 11 attacks in New York in 2001, 183 times, according to an official document.

The 2005 US justice department memorandum also showed that Abu Zubaydah, an alleged al-Qaeda operative, was waterboarded 83 times, far more than the agency originally said, the Times reported on Sunday.

A former CIA officer had previously said Zubaydah had only been subjected to 35 seconds of waterboarding, which simulates the sensation of drowning.

Some critics have accused Obama of undermining the US intelligence community after he ordered the release of "top secret" memos on interrogation techniques that have largely been condemned as torture.

'Valuable information'

The memos document in detail techniques lawyers believed would not break laws against torture including waterboarding, the repeated slamming of a prisoner's head against a padded wall, face-slapping and sleep deprivation.

Human rights groups have condemned the use
of waterboarding [AP - re-enactment]

Obama has banned the use of waterboarding and other harsh interrogation techniques used under the administration of George Bush, the former US president.

Michael Hayden, who was replaced as CIA chief earlier this year by Obama, has defended the agency's methods, saying: "We stand by our story. The critical information we got from Abu Zubaydah came after we began the EIT's [enhanced interrogation techniques]."

He said Zubaydah had "clammed up" after providing some "nominal information" under initial questioning, but under harsher interrogation he "gave up more valuable information" including tips that led to the capture of Ramzi Binalshibh, another senior alleged al-Qaeda agent.

Hayden also said the release of top secret memos were "really dangerous" for US intelligence efforts.

"Most of the people who oppose these techniques want to be able to say: 'I don't want my nation doing this', which is a pure honourable position, and 'they didn't work anyway'," he told the Fox News Sunday programme.

"The facts of the case are that the use of these techniques against these terrorists made us safer, it really did," he said.


" They don't hate America, they hate Americans " Homer Simpson


Lets party like its 1939

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, April 20, 2009 9:45 PM

GINOBIFFARONI


Satan throws in his two cents



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8009571.stm

Former US Vice-President Dick Cheney has urged the CIA to release memos which he says show harsh interrogation techniques such as water-boarding work.

His comments follow the publication of memos written by Bush administration lawyers which justified the techniques.

Mr Cheney said that the decision to publish the memos was a mistake.

And it was misleading, he said, because the documents did not include those demonstrating that harsh interrogation delivered intelligence "success".

"One of the things that I find a little bit disturbing about this recent disclosure is that they put out the legal memos... but they didn't put out the memos that show the success of the effort," Mr Cheney told Fox News.

"There are reports that show specifically what we gained as a result of this activity. They have not been declassified. I formally ask that they be declassified now."

The American people should have a chance to weigh the intelligence obtained alongside the legal debate, he said.

Mr Cheney made his comments as US President Barack Obama visited the CIA headquarters just outside Washington.

In a move seen as an attempt to boost morale, Mr Obama told employees that the CIA remained key to protecting the country.

Staff had faced a "difficult" few days, he acknowledged, but they had his full support and were key to tackling threats from groups such as al-Qaeda.

Barack Obama: 'CIA has my full support'

Mr Obama said he had had no choice but to release the Bush administration's legal justification for interrogation techniques, which he considers to be torture - and has banned.

"Don't be discouraged that we have to acknowledge that potentially we've made some mistakes.

"That's how we learn. But the fact that we are willing to acknowledge them and then move forward, that is precisely why I am proud to be president of the United States and that's why you should be proud to be members of the CIA," he said.

The memos, detailing the range of techniques the CIA was allowed to use during the Bush administration, were released on 16 April.

Quoting one of the memos, The New York Times said water-boarding - or mock drowning - was used on two al-Qaeda terror suspects on up to 266 occasions.

Other methods mentioned in the memos include week-long sleep deprivation, forced nudity and the use of painful positions.

Mr Obama on Thursday said he would not prosecute under anti-torture laws CIA personnel who relied in good faith on Bush administration legal opinions issued after the 11 September attacks.

But he has been criticised by human rights organisations and UN officials, who say charges are necessary to prevent future abuses and to hold people accountable.

" They don't hate America, they hate Americans " Homer Simpson


Lets party like its 1939

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, April 21, 2009 1:45 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Thanks for continuing to prove me right. Nothing you say is of any substance or significance.



Yes, and thank you for continuing to prove yourself a troll. You've contributed nothing to this conversation, or this site. You haven't bought up or supported a single fact, just more of your partisan RapFacts™ bullshit, as usual.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, April 21, 2009 3:30 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


You know something Fremmy, I didn't really look at the whole picture. I was looking at it from a political standpoint for Obama Admin. Thanks for reminding me about JFK. Actually it did cross my mind in regards to Barack's possible response. I thought that maybe such a move would paint a big ole target on his back.

But I agree that the wretches should be investigated, tried and fried. If they are willing to torture they deem a threat that could come back to bite US in the ass. Anyone considered a "traitor" or terrorist sympathizer would be subjected to the torture techniques in the name of "democracy".

Who gets to decide who's a threat? These twisted f*cks would find "evidence" to support their manipulation of the Constitution. Just the way they did with the wiretapping of American citizens. I saw a report not long ago (on 20/20) about the military's eavesdropping on American soldiers. They were actually listening in on couples conversations as they had phone sex. This is where our tax dollars are going.

I'm sorry, I went off on a tangent. You're right, Obama should appoint a Special Prosecutor or a Task Force to address those criminal acts and nail their asses to the wall. If not, we could be next.
-------------------------------------------
Not to change the subject but, why hasn't Obama addressed the Patriot Act and attacks on the Constitution by the Shrub Admin? We, the people I mean, need to get on this. We need to let anyone who'll hear that we need to restore our basic freedoms and liberties.
------------------------------------------
Thanks again for your insight Fremmy. Sometimes we can't see the forest for the trees.

SGG

Tawabawho?

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, April 21, 2009 3:41 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Not to change the subject but, why hasn't Obama addressed the Patriot Act and attacks on the Constitution by the Shrub Admin? We, the people I mean, need to get on this. We need to let anyone who'll hear that we need to restore our basic freedoms and liberties.



Because power, once taken from you or given by you, is NEVER taken back without a fight. That's why don't give it away so easily! It's also why I was against these things in the first place - not just for what BUSH might do with the power, but for what everyone else might do with it later. 'Cause for damn sure they weren't just going to give it back.

Remember the 55mph speed limit, and how that was an "emergency" thing that was only enacted to save gas during the first oil crisis? At least, that's what they told us THEN. Seems later, when gas was cheap and plentiful again, they needed that lower speed limit "for our own safety". That power was only wrestled away from the federal government by force, by states being willing to tell the federales to stuff their highway money and to hang, and putting it to THEIR people in a straight-up yes-no vote.

So yeah, I'm against torture - not just for one group of folks, but for ALL of us - because what you do to this guy today, you'll happily do to me tomorrow. And I'm against warrantless wiretaps and warrantless searches for the same reasons - not because I have anything to hide, but rather because YOU don't have any reason to LOOK or LISTEN. I don't have to prove myeself innocent; that's already presumed in the legal code. YOU have to prove me GUILTY - or at least you have to provide damn good evidence of why you think I might be. Otherwise, take your searches and taps and hang 'em up yer arse.

[/rant]

BTW, this was aimed at the subject matter at hand, not at any person or poster. Something about it just set me off. :)

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, April 21, 2009 3:51 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


this was aimed at the subject matter at hand, not at any person or poster. Something about it just set me off. :)
----------------------------------
Duly noted. For the record, I'm against torture, warrantless wiretaps and searches as well.

SGG


Tawabawho?

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, April 21, 2009 4:03 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Shinygoodguy:
this was aimed at the subject matter at hand, not at any person or poster. Something about it just set me off. :)
----------------------------------
Duly noted. For the record, I'm against torture, warrantless wiretaps and searches as well.

SGG


Tawabawho?



I thought so - I just didn't want you to think that I was singling out your position because I responded to your post. What you posted brought it out, but only because it echoed my own feelings on the matter.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, April 21, 2009 6:35 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Maybe if Cheney were under active investigation he wouldn't be mouthing off so much.

Now, THAT would be targeting that would be worthwhile!

---------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, April 21, 2009 7:15 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Maybe if Cheney were under active investigation he wouldn't be mouthing off so much.

Now, THAT would be targeting that would be worthwhile!

---------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.



For that matter, why isn't Michelle Bachman calling for investigations into "un-American" acts by elected officials, such as calling for secession and speaking out against the government at their little tea-bagging parties? After all, she was completely in favor of such McCarthy-esque witch-hunts less than a year ago, when some were criticizing the Bush regime!

Oh, and Signy? Obviously Cheney's a right-wing extremist; remember, he once shot a friend in the face for not agreeing vigorously enough with his political positions!



Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, April 21, 2009 10:25 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


MORE BREAKING NEWS!!

OBAMA MAY PROSECUTE BUSH OFFICIALS OVER TORTURE!!

Looks like Obama might be leaving the door open for prosecutions of Bush Administration officials who ordered the torture of detainees...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/21/obama-administration-bush_n_1
89521.html


Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, April 21, 2009 12:33 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Because power, once taken from you or given by you, is NEVER taken back without a fight. That's why don't give it away so easily! It's also why I was against these things in the first place - not just for what BUSH might do with the power, but for what everyone else might do with it later. 'Cause for damn sure they weren't just going to give it back.


“If you give too little power today, you may give more tomorrow. But the reverse of that proposition will not hold. If you give too much power today, you cannot retake it tomorrow; for tomorrow will never come for that purpose.” - Patrick Henry

Ain't no such thing as a "Temporary" Tax, neither.
Case in point, the telephone line tax intended to fund the war in 1898, which stayed in place till 2005, when some folk made an *issue* out of it on principles sake and did in the end, carry the day.
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/1229-05.htm
http://news.cnet.com/Senators-want-to-nix-1898-telecom-tax/2100-1036_3
-5769948.html


And anyone with a working brain and a knowledge of history knows damn well just how dangerous "emergency measures" can be.

Currently, though - the real dangers come not so much from the administration, but from our own alphabet goons, cause even the most superficial investigation will reveal they've been engaging in this conduct nonstop since their very foundation.

And when called on it, simply ignore whatever laws and restrictions are thrown at them and go right on doing it, as evidenced by the Church Committee hearings which lead to the very restrictions they've been proven to have ignored all along.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_Committee

If even the highest levels of our elected leaders are powerless to give them orders, then you might ask yourself who REALLY runs this country, and consider well the malicious and sociopathic nature of the conduct of these agencies over the past fifty some odd years.

The biggest threat against our people, our nation, and our entire intended way of life, comes not from an external source at all, but from within.

And if our elected leaders don't have the guts to do something about it, then it falls to us, the people - the reluctant release of these documents by the Obama administration because the material within "had been publicly acknowledged" is in great part due to whistleblowers and common citizens taking some awful risks in order to bring them to public light despite resistance from both the goons and the administration.

This is what HAS to happen, for without the actions of folk who risked their necks to get the proof, and those brave enough to publish about it, the Church Committee hearings would have never happened.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens%27_Commission_to_Investigate_the
_FBI


And in just five words, President Obama has make it abundantly clear to all of us just what side of that HE is on.

"CIA has my full support"

Which means he has failed in his duty, violated his oath of office, and as such deserves neither our respect, nor our support.

This was never about stopping the abuses, it was only about changing which hand holds the leash of the monsters that commit them.

And just think how much economic prosperity would come of finally cutting off the money pit of their black budgets, which inevitably wind up either making the money disappear, or coming up with stuff that's used on our own citizens as a matter of course.

Not to mention my personal suspicion that it would put a serious crimp in the drug trade and resultant social carnage were these agencies disbanded.

Imma hold further comment for the moment, but there is more to be said, just not now.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, April 21, 2009 1:42 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:


Not to mention my personal suspicion that it would put a serious crimp in the drug trade and resultant social carnage were these agencies disbanded.

Imma hold further comment for the moment, but there is more to be said, just not now.



Fremmie, see what you can dig up about a plane going down in Mexico with a cache of cartel drugs and/or weapons aboard. Seems it had the same tail number (registration number) as one of the planes the CIA was using for kidnappings - er, I mean for "renditions". I saw in mentioned in an article about the "war zone" of Juarez which was printed a few months back in Texas Monthly. Since then, I haven't been able to turn up much useful info on it.

I find it more than a little curious and concerning, though. I'm not crazy about the goon squad being in bed with meth cartels, to be blunt about it.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, April 21, 2009 2:28 PM

FREMDFIRMA


You're speaking of a Grumman C-11 Gulfstream II, tail number N987SA, which was logged for three rendition flights from US Destinations to Gitmo, which was then "sold" from the initial front company (Rutter) to a second front company (DonnaBlue) which crashed in Yucatan Mexico on September 24, 2007.

The alphabet goons have been running drugs ever since vietnam and air america, it's kind of an open secret to be honest, and without regard to whichever administration was in power at the time, since even Clinton had his hands in that pie as indicated by the events in Mena, Arkansas, which was even then a known jumpoff point for various dirty doings with Iran-Contra, which I was *WELL* aware of at the time because...

Oh hell, fuck it, since imma naming names and all.

Because yours truly was recommended as a potential on site advisor for "this little problem in Nicaragua" and smelled enough of a rat to revise the intended plan and go private enterprise a little early - which was a DAMN good idea cause no one who got on that flight ever came back.

I wasn't always a freelancer, Mikey.
Since I happen to be spilling every damn thing else, might as well be honest about that, too.

Trust me dude, the US Army and their intel goons smuggle as much or more dope as the cartels, where in hell didja think DARPA gets the amount of money it spends in light of how far it's assigned budget is short of that ?

How else do you think they get that shit past customs, honestly ?

All you gotta do is match up military movements incoming with known drug distribution frameworks to prove it, too.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, April 21, 2009 2:30 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

Trust me dude, the US Army and their intel goons smuggle as much or more dope as the cartels, where in hell didja think DARPA gets the amount of money it spends in light of how far it's assigned budget is short of that ?

How else do you think they get that shit past customs, honestly ?


Who's gonna clean up all these beans now, Frem?


The laughing Chrisisall

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, April 21, 2009 3:09 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Won't be me.

I decided that from the very beginning, when they decided to fast-track me onto a career path which woulda had me in the end doing *exactly that* - by any means necessary.

So I played ball long enough to learn everything about it that I could, and jumped ship using my broken contract and the money they owed me as an excuse and cover - then went private enterprise.

There's a lot more to that story than is ever gettin told, but consider how much a technically oriented fella who was the only one outside of the crypto guys who knew any damn thing about those computers might have learned being educated in dirty business, while in the same where and when that they installed main core.

It's funny though, none of em much cared cause they knew damn well that in the case of a real external threat against our country or our people them fuckers would have to take a number and get in line behind my ass to get their pound of flesh.

I doubt they're much concerned now either, since anything I might choose to spill is small potatoes compared to what got torched, kind of our little version of a steam engines blowoff valve, you understand.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, April 21, 2009 3:51 PM

CHRISISALL


Yep.


The laughing Chrisisall

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, April 23, 2009 11:59 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Thumbs up, Kwick!

As the Aussies would say: No Worries.

SGG

Tawabawho?

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

YOUR OPTIONS

NEW POSTS TODAY

USERPOST DATE

OTHER TOPICS

DISCUSSIONS
Elections; 2024
Tue, April 23, 2024 06:51 - 2292 posts
Russia Invades Ukraine. Again
Tue, April 23, 2024 06:19 - 6290 posts
In the garden, and RAIN!!! (2)
Tue, April 23, 2024 00:15 - 3549 posts
Grifter Donald Trump Has Been Indicted And Yes Arrested; Four Times Now And Counting. Hey Jack, I Was Right
Mon, April 22, 2024 20:30 - 799 posts
FACTS
Mon, April 22, 2024 20:10 - 552 posts
Pardon Me? Michael Avenatti Flips, Willing To Testify On Trump's Behalf
Mon, April 22, 2024 19:16 - 8 posts
Russian losses in Ukraine
Mon, April 22, 2024 17:47 - 1010 posts
Case against Sidney Powell, 2020 case lawyer, is dismissed
Mon, April 22, 2024 17:13 - 5 posts
I agree with everything you said, but don't tell anyone I said that
Mon, April 22, 2024 16:15 - 16 posts
BREAKING NEWS: Taylor Swift has a lot of ex-boyfriends
Mon, April 22, 2024 12:27 - 2 posts
Dow Nearing 30K. Time For You To Jump Off?
Mon, April 22, 2024 12:22 - 107 posts
The Washington Times: Bill Maher says the silent part out loud: Abortion is murder
Mon, April 22, 2024 03:57 - 13 posts

FFF.NET SOCIAL