REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Tortured to Death

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Friday, May 8, 2009 07:43
SHORT URL:
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Wednesday, May 6, 2009 10:48 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


United States interrogators killed nearly four dozen detainees during or after their interrogations, according a report published by a human rights researcher based on a Human Rights First report and followup investigations.

In all, 98 detainees have died while in U.S. hands. Thirty-four homicides have been identified, with at least eight detainees -- and as many as 12 -- having been tortured to death, according to a 2006 Human Rights First report that underwrites the researcher’s posting. The causes of 48 more deaths remain uncertain.

www.alternet.org/waroniraq/139867/revealed%3A_u.s._interrogators_may_h
ave_killed_dozens_of_detainees
/

Just to nail down the topic of whether we tortured anyone recently.

----------------------
We should have strapped him into a glider, filled it nose heavy w/ explosives, and dropped his Allah lovin' ass into a large, empty field. After which, release wild boars into the area so they could make good use of his remains. Now THAT's justice.- rappy

Yeah, that's what Sheikh Issa said. Seems you both have a lot in common.- signy


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Wednesday, May 6, 2009 10:56 AM

FREMDFIRMA


And they'll just go on pretending like you never said it, just like they did when I posted the military's own investigation from even earlier confirming it.

I'd pondered posting this myself, but felt it was rather pointless in the face of folk so boneheaded, not to mention slimy, that logic, reason and facts just slide right off.

Teflonheads - is my latest perjorative for that lot.

-F

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Wednesday, May 6, 2009 11:20 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Just adding to what you posted earlier, Frem. It bears repeating, even if it's destined to slide off. Unfortunately I can hear it now... "but not at Gitmo"... "but they were terrorists..." "... few bad apples..."


BTW- My term is "fenderhead", but "teflonhead" and "dittohead" works just as well. Goota wonder tho- what's the point of having a brain if ya ai't gonna use it??
----------------------
We should have strapped him into a glider, filled it nose heavy w/ explosives, and dropped his Allah lovin' ass into a large, empty field. After which, release wild boars into the area so they could make good use of his remains. Now THAT's justice.- rappy

Yeah, that's what Sheikh Issa said. Seems you both have a lot in common.- signy

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Wednesday, May 6, 2009 12:49 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Naaaahhh, it isn't possible that they were tortured to death. Remember, "we don't torture".

Yeah, right.

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Wednesday, May 6, 2009 12:56 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Yeah, this report is about as reliable as the 600,000 civilian Iraqi deaths too.






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Wednesday, May 6, 2009 1:15 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Yeah, this report is about as reliable as the 600,000 civilian Iraqi deaths too.




You mean to say it's far more reliable than the reports about Saddam having WMD, right?

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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Wednesday, May 6, 2009 1:40 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Yeah, this report is about as reliable as the 600,000 civilian Iraqi deaths too.




You mean to say it's far more reliable than the reports about Saddam having WMD, right?

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.



Yep. That was a "slam dunk".







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Wednesday, May 6, 2009 1:50 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I think you should be listening to a more insightful group of peeps, rappy. Don't you?

----------------------
We should have strapped him into a glider, filled it nose heavy w/ explosives, and dropped his Allah lovin' ass into a large, empty field. After which, release wild boars into the area so they could make good use of his remains. Now THAT's justice.- rappy

Yeah, that's what Sheikh Issa said. Seems you both have a lot in common.- signy

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Wednesday, May 6, 2009 3:38 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Oh please, Sig, show me the way!

*edit* I JUST now noticed .... what's Obama doing in that pic ? Seriously, I posted it simply because of his facial expression, but now as I look at it....seems he's doing something curious w/ his hands...

hmm....




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Wednesday, May 6, 2009 3:49 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


What's the matter Rap - you pulled the picture from SOMEwhere - did you lose track of what it was about ?



Anyway, to put an end to your misery (short of euthanasia), my guess is he was sitting with his hands folded in his lap, just like here - another picture from the exact same event.



Oh, for good measure


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Wednesday, May 6, 2009 3:51 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


So anyway, Rap

Got anything relevant to say about people tortured to death by the US ? ANYthing relevant - at all ?

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Wednesday, May 6, 2009 3:56 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

So anyway, Rap

Got anything relevant to say about people tortured to death by the US ? ANYthing relevant - at all ?



How's that jihad working out of ya ?




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Wednesday, May 6, 2009 4:03 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
What's the matter Rap - you pulled the picture from SOMEwhere - did you lose track of what it was about ?

Don't know, don't care. I just saw it was a funny lookin pic, and decided to use it.

Quote:


Anyway, to put an end to your misery (short of euthanasia), my guess is he was sitting with his hands folded in his lap, just like here - another picture from the exact same event.





I just find it funny that you felt the need to go to all the trouble to find corresponding pics and explain the whole situation, because of the perceived notion that anyone might POSSIBLY view your dear and fluffy leader in a less than favorable manner.

Guess that makes you 'O' whipped.




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Wednesday, May 6, 2009 4:11 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Got anything relevant to say about people tortured to death by the US ? ANYthing relevant - at all ?

I guess not.

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Wednesday, May 6, 2009 4:15 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


"... all the trouble to find corresponding pics ..."

google. images. obama grade school

one minute or less

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Wednesday, May 6, 2009 4:16 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Got anything relevant to say about people tortured to death by the US ? ANYthing relevant - at all ?

I guess not.


***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Wednesday, May 6, 2009 4:27 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
Got anything relevant to say about people tortured to death by the US ? ANYthing relevant - at all ?

I guess not.


Silence is consent.



Repeat yourself much ?

You're such a boob.




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Thursday, May 7, 2009 1:17 AM

RIPWASH


IF this is true then I do feel bad that it happened. While I'm not against torture to a certain degree, I do feel the people doing it should know when to STOP.

However - and I'm saying this at the risk of sounding like a turd - I'm going to point out a little double standard here. The headline says "MAY" have happened, so it's not an absolute fact AND my other point is this...

Sig and Rue (especially Rue, since I've had more experience from you on this) a little looking around that website and I couldn't help but notice that *GASP* it's a liberal/left-wing site. That being said, I feel it needs to be questioned even deeper. A quick search on Google of "98 detainees tortured death" brought up absolutely nothing from any mainstream news source in the first two or three pages, much less CNN or MSNBC who you would think would be falling all over themselves to post this if it occurred during the Bush Administration. I'm only pointing this out because you need to use a more reliable source for your information. I have posted links before to prove a point and because a site or two that I referenced were supposedly Conservative you basically told me that the information was obviously biased and should be practically dismissed out of hand, not to be trusted.

I hope you don't take that the wrong way. I'm not slamming you or insulting you, just pointing it out as a possible flaw in your reasoning. If I'm to take your word that a conservative site is untrustworthy, then perhaps strictly liberal sites aren't trustworthy either?

Mal: You think she'll hold together?
Zoë: She's torn up plenty, but she'll fly true.
Mal: Could be bumpy.
Zoë: Always is

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Thursday, May 7, 2009 1:36 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

I just find it funny that you felt the need to go to all the trouble to find corresponding pics and explain the whole situation, because of the perceived notion that anyone might POSSIBLY view your dear and fluffy leader in a less than favorable manner.




There's a lot of that going around...







Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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Thursday, May 7, 2009 2:39 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Ex-General Sanchez was just interviewed and said that only ONE person died at Abu Grahib from coerced interrogation. Whether it's one or one hundred doesn't matter to me. The mere origination of these sado-masochistic horrors was twisted and demented and criminal in the court of Humanity.

Abu Grahib was not one of the prisons, it was THE prison. For Sanchez and Bush Admin. people to claim ignorance of what went on there is utterly un-believeable. And WHAT was gained by any of it? Sanchez's troops & Iraqi innocents were being blown to bits every damn day on the streets of Baghdad and other cities, yet we kept up the inquisition. I'm sure 'ole Torquemada was smiling from from Hell at the entertainment we provided.

But worse than all that was the vile and insipid planning and legal manuevering involved, now detailed in the endless piles of documents amassed on these issues. I mean what the fuck...any lawyer, doctor, Bush staffer, etc. should have run fucking screaming out of the room the first time these things came up. The whole thing reminds me of the Wannsee Conference the Nazis held during the WWII to determine how to most effectively solve their Jewish problem.

These were well-dressed men, gathered together for a few days at a countryside retreat. They were educated men, clean-shaven men of high standing. Unfortunately they were also psychotic and delusional mass murderers. They envisioned a new world, populated by the Arayan race. Our guys plans were not as grandiose, they simply wanted to torture and humliate detainees. And for what? We got nothing out of Abu Grahib except more dead Americans from insurgents and terrorists who flooded into Iraq.

Sanchez should be tried for his responsibility in this.

Rumsfeld should be tried for his responsibility in this.

The doctors and attorneys, including the Attorney General(s) and staff should be tried for their responsibility in this.

The President of the United States should have been the only person alive to make a call on interrogation, and then only in a very high-threat situation. Cheney, Rumsfeld, Gonzalez, etc had no business at all in these matters.

Yanno, when I watched the Sanchez interview with Rachel Madow I was just jaw-dropping struck by his utter lack of comprehension of what he had been in charge of. His pathetic spin and obtuseness on the subjects of guard dogs, nudity, human degradation etc. was truly amazing to watch. It just made me sick to my stomach. I don't know how these people live with themselves, or sleep at night.






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Thursday, May 7, 2009 4:55 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


"Repeat yourself much ?
You're such a boob."

And you STILL don't have ANYTHING relevant to post.

That you're an intentional idiot is pretty obvious at this point.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Thursday, May 7, 2009 4:55 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Oh please, Sig, show me the way!
I keep trying' but yanno what they say about horses and water.
Quote:

what's Obama doing in that pic ? Seriously, I posted it simply because of his facial expression, but now as I look at it....seems he's doing something curious w/ his hands...
Did you really think this attempt to derail the topic was going to keep peeps from noticing what a fool you are...?

heh heh heh

It only highights it. Poor dear.



----------------------
We should have strapped him into a glider, filled it nose heavy w/ explosives, and dropped his Allah lovin' ass into a large, empty field. After which, release wild boars into the area so they could make good use of his remains. Now THAT's justice.- rappy

Yeah, that's what Sheikh Issa said. Seems you both have a lot in common.- signy

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Thursday, May 7, 2009 5:13 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Forgive a little harshness, Ripwash, buuut...

Quote:

Sig and Rue (especially Rue, since I've had more experience from you on this) a little looking around that website and I couldn't help but notice that *GASP* it's a liberal/left-wing site. That being said, I feel it needs to be questioned even deeper.

Bit of a double standard that, since it was the unquestioning acceptance of right/conservative site propaganda, often picked up and run without the slighest whit of verification by "mainstream news", compounded by outright paid-for propaganda campaigns including but not limited to...

Paying folk to pose as journalists.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/15/politics/15VIDE.html

Fake "news" articles.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/13/politics/13covert.html

Bought and paid for "editorials" praising the administration.
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20050509/alterman/print

Special note - by how rabidly (and radically) her commentary has changed, either Miss Gallagher has gotten a better deal (i.e. more money) from the Obama administration, or is currying favor for other reasons.

And let's not forget Gannon and Talon News Service, or Judith Miller, either.

Frankly, ANY politically-inclined source should be verified, and to attribute a greater percentage of falsehood to liberal/left news organisations flies in the face of both mountains of evidence and a right/conservative legacy of lies dating back to William Hearst and the rise of "yellow journalism" - the only large media figure in the mainstream which could conceivably be called in any way liberal would be Ted Turner, and he's mostly statist-centrist than anything else, as compared to the rabidity and downright partisanship of Sinclair Broadcasting, for example.

Anyhows, best not to trust ANY source unverified, much less a politically leaning one - but save that "liberals are liars" snark for someone who's not sitting on a mountain of hard evidence that the other side is five times worse for it in every way, shape and form.

Although that may well change, now that the previous administration has thrown the doors wide and enabled it - I don't think much of the current administration neither, and would not put it past them to use the same tactics now that the precedent has been established.
Quote:

A quick search on Google of "98 detainees tortured death" brought up absolutely nothing from any mainstream news source in the first two or three pages, much less CNN or MSNBC who you would think would be falling all over themselves to post this if it occurred during the Bush Administration.

Actually they were falling all over themselves NOT to report it, or anything else critical of that administration - one reason they got away with so much shit is that the american public never heard about it, hell, the New York Times *admitted* holding back the warrantless eavesdropping story till after the election.

And THIS didn't even make the news.

Read the report for yourself.
http://www.defenselink.mil/releases/release.aspx?releaseid=7663

And that doesn't even touch on the Church Report, in 2005, which ironically tries to deny a couple claims in where there was a finding of homicide - which if you know anything about Army "justice" (excuse me while I laugh, HARD) you'd know takes some seriously over the top action to accomplish.
Quote:

I'm only pointing this out because you need to use a more reliable source for your information. I have posted links before to prove a point and because a site or two that I referenced were supposedly Conservative you basically told me that the information was obviously biased and should be practically dismissed out of hand, not to be trusted.

Given the history of some of those sources, I would concur completely with "not to be trusted", but I don't dismiss ANYTHING out of hand, better to investigate first, which you have done, just not in as effective a fashion as I would like.

Quote:

I hope you don't take that the wrong way. I'm not slamming you or insulting you, just pointing it out as a possible flaw in your reasoning. If I'm to take your word that a conservative site is untrustworthy, then perhaps strictly liberal sites aren't trustworthy either?

Ayep, that's the salient point, and lemme borrow a quote from Ronnie Raygun here...

"Trust but verify"

Sorry for coming on a little harsh there, Ripwash - I tend to do that, but I happen to be doubly or triply skeptical of sites/sources that have lied to me, and the "conservative" end of the media is very much guilty of that, not that they're ALONE in that guilt, mind you, just that they don't even do a good job of hiding it!

If you're going to practice villainry, *insert derisive sniff* one should at least do it competently!

Or better said,
"There is nothing proper about what you're doing, dear boy, but at least try to do this thing properly."
-Cicero

-F

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Thursday, May 7, 2009 5:22 AM

RIPWASH


LOL. No villain-esque attempts here. Just pointing out that Liberals saying that Conservative sites are untrustworthy should not expect Conservatives to trust Liberal sites . . . that's all

Didn't come across harsh at all, Frem. We're good.

Mal: You think she'll hold together?
Zoë: She's torn up plenty, but she'll fly true.
Mal: Could be bumpy.
Zoë: Always is

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Thursday, May 7, 2009 5:22 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

It just made me sick to my stomach. I don't know how these people live with themselves, or sleep at night.

Cause they're sociopaths.

As for Obama's cute little picture there, he's entertaining children, much like Bush was doing on 9-11 by reading to them - and you MIGHT, just MIGHT note, that in all this time, that's one pass I've given the man, cause in all honesty there wasn't much he COULD do since he trusted in the protocols (which strangely enough were not followed) for such a situation in the first place.

I might not have agreed with his decision to continue reading to the kids, as I felt he should have made a diplomatic and non-panic inducing excuse and got his butt to safety - but it's one of the few decisions the man made that I'll give him a pass on cause it's his right to make it.

Presidents are, whether they wish it or not, role models of american character because when they assume the office, they BECOME the office - also a reason I think assassinating a sitting president is pissing on all that america is, no matter what a creep they are otherwise - but in becoming that office, setting a decent example of behavior is one of the kindest things you can do with it.

I did tell y'all the story of the hacker I knew who culled Clintons expired AOL screen name out of a textbook and recreated it as an AIM account, or did I ?

That was hi-larious, it was, but when he started posting the "better" convos, mostly involving Miss Lewinsky, he drew the attention of the Secret Service and got a rather unpleasant visit about it... oops.
(They deleted them, but some of those conversations were primo stuff!)

Anyhows, being nice to kids, so long as it stops at a certain point (Talkin about YOU, Foley and Frank!) is a cool thing for a president to do, not matter how much a creep I might think em otherwise.

-Frem

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Thursday, May 7, 2009 5:24 AM

FREMDFIRMA


LoL, thanks Rip - I should be layin down, it's my day off, I'm in pain, and very, VERY drunk, headed for smashed in a hurry, is all.
(Oh crap, and now Wulf is gonna be camping the board just waiiiiiting... in-joke that, ask him about it)

-F

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Thursday, May 7, 2009 5:29 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


"... especially Rue, since I've had more experience from you on this ..."
You mean my pointing out that YOUR sources on medical care were indeed heavily biased right ?

"... and because a site or two that I referenced ..."
Ah yes, that IS your problem here. Truth be told, it wasn't JUST a site or two - it was every single one - for the record.

"... were supposedly Conservative ..."
And yes, in their very mission statements and their self-selected labels - they were conservative. I think they would be insulted by the 'supposedly' label you put on them.

"If I'm to take your word that a conservative site is untrustworthy, then perhaps strictly liberal sites aren't trustworthy either?"
THAT people were tortured and THAT some were tortured to death is not in question. The question now is - how many ?

http://armed-services.senate.gov/Publications/Detainee%20Report%20Fina
l_April%2022%202009.pdf

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/afx/2005/11/13/afx2333394.html
http://www.aclu.org/intlhumanrights/gen/21236prs20051024.html
original documents obtained with FOIA here:
http://www.aclu.org/safefree/torture/torturefoia.html
http://action.aclu.org/torturefoia/released/102405/
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Thursday, May 7, 2009 5:33 AM

RIPWASH


Well, okay, ya got me there, but like I said in t'other thread, I wasn't aware that one (or two - can't remember now) of the sites was considered "Conservative" when I linked to them.

What Sig used was a VERY obvious Liberal site.

Just sayin'

Carry on . . .

Mal: You think she'll hold together?
Zoë: She's torn up plenty, but she'll fly true.
Mal: Could be bumpy.
Zoë: Always is

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Thursday, May 7, 2009 5:38 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Yeah, this report is about as reliable as the 600,000 civilian Iraqi deaths too.


True. Actual Iraqi civilian deaths are 2.6-million during the nonstop 19-year war.

Actual Iraq War US military deaths are 75,000 with 700,000 now paid disability by US Veterans Administration, according to VA and census reports.

USA is next on the NWO chopping block.


Mission Accompliced!

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Thursday, May 7, 2009 5:40 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


And I provided links that show that indeed detainees were tortured to death from such liberal sites as Forbes and a senate committee report, and links to original documents obtained with the FOIA.

THAT detainees were tortured to death has been a known fact for years.

Are you disputing the facts ? Or having a major pout ?



***************************************************************

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Thursday, May 7, 2009 5:42 AM

RIPWASH


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
And I provided links that show that indeed detainees were tortured to death from such liberal sites as Forbes, and links to original documents obtained with the FOIA.

THAT detainees were tortured to death has been a known fact for years.

Are you disputing the facts ? Or having a major pout ?



***************************************************************

Silence is consent.



Oh no! I dare not! No pouting here. See?

Haven't looked at your sites yet. Don't have all the time in the world to look this stuff up like you do, my friend.

Carry on . . .

Mal: You think she'll hold together?
Zoë: She's torn up plenty, but she'll fly true.
Mal: Could be bumpy.
Zoë: Always is

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Thursday, May 7, 2009 5:46 AM

FREMDFIRMA


I think he didn't know Rue.

Let's not make enemies where we could be makin allies, Rip doesn't strike me as a Teflonhead...

Of course, at this point of things, I'm thankin my lucky stars for spellcheck autocorrect, so, ymmv.

*singing G&R's "night train"*

-F

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Thursday, May 7, 2009 5:47 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Then I will match your 'no pout' and raise you

This is something I've been following for many years. I've probably forgotten more about this than most people ever knew.

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Thursday, May 7, 2009 5:50 AM

RIPWASH


LOL . . . . but ya know . . . ACLU? Not exactly trustworthy if you ask me

Mal: You think she'll hold together?
Zoë: She's torn up plenty, but she'll fly true.
Mal: Could be bumpy.
Zoë: Always is

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Thursday, May 7, 2009 6:10 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


RIP- Just FYI I generally don't post stuff I haven't verified thru other sources, but usually link to a particular site bc it has more of the facts in one place than other sites. But I don't expect you to believe me either! Like Frem says: Trust but verify!

----------------------
We should have strapped him into a glider, filled it nose heavy w/ explosives, and dropped his Allah lovin' ass into a large, empty field. After which, release wild boars into the area so they could make good use of his remains. Now THAT's justice.- rappy

Yeah, that's what Sheikh Issa said. Seems you both have a lot in common.- signy

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Thursday, May 7, 2009 6:13 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

Cause they're sociopaths.

As for Obama's cute little picture there, he's entertaining children, much like Bush was doing on 9-11 by reading to them - and you MIGHT, just MIGHT note, that in all this time, that's one pass I've given the man, cause in all honesty there wasn't much he COULD do since he trusted in the protocols (which strangely enough were not followed) for such a situation in the first place.

I might not have agreed with his decision to continue reading to the kids, as I felt he should have made a diplomatic and non-panic inducing excuse and got his butt to safety - but it's one of the few decisions the man made that I'll give him a pass on cause it's his right to make it.


I respectfully disagree.

They're psychopaths, not mere sociopaths. That's the 1%ers in the population. 1 out of every 100 people you have ever met is a psychopath.

GW Bush did not read The Pet Goat to kids on 9.11, they read to him. No the book was not upside down (probably). The Pet Goat was about CAR THIEVES.



GW Bush said he knew about the first crash before arriving at the school, while riding in his limo command post.


Bush told of 2nd crash

The second crash into WTC was reported in the middle of the kids reading, when Andy Card walked up and whispered in his ear, while White House spokesman RABBI Ari Fleisher looked very guilty, while Bush rocks in his chair like a psychopath, as seen on Fahrenheit 9.11.



Bush sat around the school for over half an hour after the 2nd crash puttign the kids at risk of "terror attack", as seen in this photo:


Note TV screen and clock

The "president" makes no decisions. They read teleprompters and do what they're told by Sir Heinz "Henry" Kissinger jewish Knight of the British Empire. What was different about Bush Jr was VP Cheney giving all the orders at the White House. Israeli soldier Rhambo gives all orders in the Obama/Clinton-Blythe-Rockefeller White House, with Israel founded by the British Empire's Balfour/Rothschild Agreement.

Cheney ordered the Pentagon to stand down on 9.11.2001, as testified by Lockheed Martin robot CEO Norman Maneta to 9.11 ConMission. Sir Donalad Rumsfeld jewish Knight of the British Empire ordered the Pentagon to stand down 3 months before 9.11.2001, regarding shooting down airliners attacking USA.

A general from Canada was in charge of NORAD on 9.11.2001, which is under NORTHCOM (Canada, USA, Mexico), with Canada under command of the German Queen of England as part of the 53-nation British Commonwealth Empire. On 9.11.2001, NORAD was "coincidentally" running "drills" of hijacking 20+ US airliners and crashing into buildings in DC and NYC. FAA ATC managers detroyed all audiotape debriefings of ATC controllers on 9.11.2001.

Fortunately, some soldiers still have a brain and identify illegal orders. UCMJ and officer training are very clear that no soldier is ever allowed to obey an illegal order. It is never a legal defense that a soldier thought an unlawful order was lawful, as the US National Guard torturers at Abu Ghraib found out at courts martial. So F16 pilot Major Rick Gibney of ND Air National Guard shot down United Airlines Flight 93 on 9.11.2001, following his lawful orders from his immediate commading general. This saved either the Congress from decapitation (Reichstag Fire), White House (false flag alibi), or Pentagon (cruise missile to fake invisible Flight 77).


www.piratenews.org/flight93.html

Gibney was promoted to Lt Col, congratulated on his "secret" mission on 9.11.2001 in the Congressional Record, and he was given a televised award caremoney by the governor of North Dakota. Flight 93 was under robot control per Pentagon's Operation Northwoods, with all crew and passengers incapacitated like the Helios 737 Flight that froze solid all crew and passengers before crashing in Greece while stalked by F16 pilots.

Col Donn De Grandpre may have been assassinated after reporting these facts in his books and radio interviews, since he's the OSS/CIA officer who Gibney confessed to. But at least it gets me on History Channel every month.

The purpose of torturing 4-dozen POWs to death is to get false confessions to 9.11.


www.september911surprise.com

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Thursday, May 7, 2009 6:25 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Did the USS Abe Lincoln fail in its mission, or did it accomplish it ?

It accomplished its mission objectives, ergo, Mission Accomplished.






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Thursday, May 7, 2009 6:43 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Did the USS Abe Lincoln fail in its mission, or did it accomplish it ?

It accomplished its mission objectives, ergo, Mission Accomplished.



Why did Abe not launch jets to defend USA on 9.11? Mission Accomplished?

Quote:

"Mission Accomplished," a phrase associated with completing a mission, is in recent years particularly associated with a sign displayed on USS Abraham Lincoln during a televised address by United States President George W. Bush on May 1, 2003.

Bush stated at the time that this was the end to major combat operations in Iraq. While this statement did coincide with an end to the conventional phase of the war, Bush's assertion — and the sign itself — became controversial after guerilla warfare in Iraq increased during the Iraqi insurgency. The vast majority of casualties, among both coalition (approximately 98.3% as of October 2008) and Iraqi combatants, and among Iraqi civilians, has occurred since the speech.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mission_Accomplished



Wiki dont say what port it was in on 9.11. Her "home port" is Everett, Washington, but that might not be where it was on 9.11.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Abraham_Lincoln_(CVN-72)

Quote:

Sailors stationed aboard USS Abraham Lincoln (CVN 72), in the Puget Sound Naval Shipyard at the time of terrorist acts on the east coast, were either traveling to the ship or onboard as part of the duty section.

www.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=3631



Puget Sound is in Washington state. History records that US Navy did nothing to save USA on 9.11. Just like US Navy recalled fighter jets from defending USS Liberty during the Israeli attack, as part of Operation Northwoods, signed confession by jewish chairman of US joint chiefs of staff at Pentagon General Lyman Lemnitzer. Mission Accompliced.

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Thursday, May 7, 2009 6:47 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


" ACLU? Not exactly trustworthy if you ask me."

So, you think they doctored the documents they got from the government under the FOIA ? And hey, at least they posted their original sources on their website. There's not much more they could do to validate their paper, is there ?

Oh, that's right. Just BECAUSE it's the ACLU nothing they could do would be enough, in your view.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Thursday, May 7, 2009 6:50 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


So, Rap

STILL nothing relevant to the US torturing detainees to death ?

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Thursday, May 7, 2009 6:51 AM

WASHNWEAR


Quote:

Originally posted by RIPWash:
... While I'm not against torture to a certain degree...



And what degree would that be? Perhaps the degree at which you might find yourself no longer just a far-removed observer, but a (presumably still unopposing) subject? That's where I tend to draw the line...

As to the question of when to stop, I've always been a big fan of before they start...before they start works for me.

And aside from that lame bit of snark, I readily acknowledge your observation about the questionable reliability of biased sources, left or right. And on that note, aside from my obvious exception to your position on torture, you always appear to at least make the effort to be objective and UNbiased...and that's not always easy.



W W T D ?
What would Torquemada do?

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Thursday, May 7, 2009 6:55 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Imagine what it took to kill dozens of POWs, if the surviving POWs got 183 waterboards per month...
http://piratenews-tv.blogspot.com/2009/04/183-waterboards-per-prisoner
-for-false.html


CIA Mossad torture dungeons for snuff kiddie porn
http://piratenews-tv.blogspot.com/2009/04/cia-mossad-torture-house-for
-snuff.html


Think it can't happen here?

UNDERCOVER AUDIO TORTURE IN USA: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3386531596598980684&hl=en

Here's what torture sounds like by police state death squads in USA - Waterboarding, electrodes to the testicles and gun in the mouth are how drug-dealing traffic cops solve crimes in Tennessee. When the torture victim refused to sign a "voluntary contract" after 2 hours of torture in his own home, the cops forged his name. These 5 cops are now getting buttraped in federal prison. Torture victim Eugene Siler sued for $17-million.

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Thursday, May 7, 2009 7:23 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Ex-General Sanchez was just interviewed and said that only ONE person died at Abu Grahib from coerced interrogation. Whether it's one or one hundred doesn't matter to me. The mere origination of these sado-masochistic horrors was twisted and demented and criminal in the court of Humanity.



You are so spot on, my friend.


The laughing Chrisisall

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Thursday, May 7, 2009 7:27 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

It accomplished its mission objectives, ergo, Mission Accomplished.




Are you being a simpleton here for the funny? I do that sometimes myself.


The laughing Chrisisall

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Thursday, May 7, 2009 7:33 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Ex-General Sanchez was just interviewed and said that only ONE person died at Abu Grahib from coerced interrogation. Whether it's one or one hundred doesn't matter to me. The mere origination of these sado-masochistic horrors was twisted and demented and criminal in the court of Humanity.



You are so spot on, my friend.


The laughing Chrisisall


I appreciate that Chris. I just finished re-watching the John Adams mini-series...there is a scene in the early episode where a colonial tax agent for King George is surrounded by a Boston mob, then stripped and beaten, then hot tar is poured all over his body, leaving him in writhing pain and agony. Both John Adams and Sam Adams witnessed this event, but Sam Adams wanted to and tried to justify the action to his cousin John. Problem is, he couldn't. And John had some inspiring words to protest his utter abhorrance of it. After that, Sam Adams became less of a vengeful rebel and more of a statesman.
That scene will give you chills, and it's as relevant today as it was back then.

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Thursday, May 7, 2009 7:45 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Did the USS Abe Lincoln fail in its mission, or did it accomplish it ?

It accomplished its mission objectives, ergo, Mission Accomplished.




Quote:


I just find it funny that you felt the need to go to all the trouble to... explain the whole situation, because of the perceived notion that anyone might POSSIBLY view your dear and fluffy leader in a less than favorable manner.



I find it more than a little bit funny that you're STILL trying to spin that whole "combat operations in Iraq are over" moment into a postive moment. You sure do seem to go to an awful lot of trouble to explain the situation.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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Thursday, May 7, 2009 7:47 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Ex-General Sanchez was just interviewed and said that only ONE person died at Abu Grahib from coerced interrogation. Whether it's one or one hundred doesn't matter to me. The mere origination of these sado-masochistic horrors was twisted and demented and criminal in the court of Humanity.

Abu Grahib was not one of the prisons, it was THE prison. For Sanchez and Bush Admin. people to claim ignorance of what went on there is utterly un-believeable. And WHAT was gained by any of it? Sanchez's troops & Iraqi innocents were being blown to bits every damn day on the streets of Baghdad and other cities, yet we kept up the inquisition. I'm sure 'ole Torquemada was smiling from from Hell at the entertainment we provided.

But worse than all that was the vile and insipid planning and legal manuevering involved, now detailed in the endless piles of documents amassed on these issues. I mean what the fuck...any lawyer, doctor, Bush staffer, etc. should have run fucking screaming out of the room the first time these things came up. The whole thing reminds me of the Wannsee Conference the Nazis held during the WWII to determine how to most effectively solve their Jewish problem.

These were well-dressed men, gathered together for a few days at a countryside retreat. They were educated men, clean-shaven men of high standing. Unfortunately they were also psychotic and delusional mass murderers. They envisioned a new world, populated by the Arayan race. Our guys plans were not as grandiose, they simply wanted to torture and humliate detainees. And for what? We got nothing out of Abu Grahib except more dead Americans from insurgents and terrorists who flooded into Iraq.

Sanchez should be tried for his responsibility in this.

Rumsfeld should be tried for his responsibility in this.

The doctors and attorneys, including the Attorney General(s) and staff should be tried for their responsibility in this.

The President of the United States should have been the only person alive to make a call on interrogation, and then only in a very high-threat situation. Cheney, Rumsfeld, Gonzalez, etc had no business at all in these matters.

Yanno, when I watched the Sanchez interview with Rachel Madow I was just jaw-dropping struck by his utter lack of comprehension of what he had been in charge of. His pathetic spin and obtuseness on the subjects of guard dogs, nudity, human degradation etc. was truly amazing to watch. It just made me sick to my stomach. I don't know how these people live with themselves, or sleep at night.



Not to bake your noodle or anything, Jongsy, but I'm gonna have to agree with you AGAIN. Try not to faint.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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Thursday, May 7, 2009 7:53 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


I just finished re-watching the John Adams mini-series...there is a scene in the early episode where a colonial tax agent for King George is surrounded by a Boston mob, then stripped and beaten, then hot tar is poured all over his body, leaving him in writhing pain and agony.


And yes, that is torture. But the INTENT here was to punish and inflict pain. I truly believe that what we do, what our GOAL, is to coerce the terrorist ( those who clearly want to kill us and promote the Fatwa that's been issued against the Untied States ) into telling us what they know, and to NOT punish. Intent is a MAJOR issue here that, almost always by the Left, gets glossed over and down played. Yes, intent IS a major factor here, and I fully agree w/ the Bush memo released on the matter.

Quote:

"Because specific intent is an element of the offense, the absence of specific intent negates the charge of torture. ... We have further found that if a defendant acts with the good faith belief that his actions will not cause such suffering, he has not acted with specific intent,"



Those who went beyond such boundaries, and DID cause suffering w/ the INTENT on doing so, I support legal action against them.






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Thursday, May 7, 2009 7:54 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


kwickie

Stop being a troll, please. It's really fucking annoying, and takes away from the purpose of this forum.




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Thursday, May 7, 2009 7:55 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
"Because specific intent is an element of the offense, the absence of specific intent negates the charge of torture.

To quote Ripley: "Wrong."
You are so simple in your complication, AU.


The laughing Chrisisall

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