REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

College Student Shoots, Kills Home Invader

POSTED BY: AG05
UPDATED: Thursday, May 7, 2009 09:05
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Wednesday, May 6, 2009 1:54 PM

AG05



http://www.wsbtv.com/news/19365762/detail.html

Quote:

COLLEGE PARK, Ga. -- A group of college students said they are lucky to be alive and they’re thanking the quick-thinking of one of their own. Police said a fellow student shot and killed one of two masked me who burst into an apartment.

Channel 2 Action News reporter Tom Jones met with one of the students to talk about the incident.

“Apparently, his intent was to rape and murder us all,” said student Charles Bailey.

Bailey said he thought it was the end of his life and the lives of the 10 people inside his apartment for a birthday party after two masked men with guns burst in through a patio door.

“They just came in and separated the men from the women and said, ‘Give me your wallets and cell phones,’” said George Williams of the College Park Police Department.

Bailey said the gunmen started counting bullets. “The other guy asked how many (bullets) he had. He said he had enough,” said Bailey.

That’s when one student grabbed a gun out of a backpack and shot at the invader who was watching the men. The gunman ran out of the apartment.

The student then ran to the room where the second gunman, identified by police as 23-year-old Calvin Lavant, was holding the women.

“Apparently the guy was getting ready to rape his girlfriend. So he told the girls to get down and he started shooting. The guy jumped out of the window,” said Bailey.

A neighbor heard the shots and heard someone running nearby.

“And I heard someone say, ‘Someone help me. Call the police. Somebody call the police,’” said a neighbor.

The neighbor said she believes it was Lavant, who was found dead near his apartment, only one building away.

Bailey said he is just thankful one student risked his life to keep others alive.

“I think all of us are really cognizant of the fact that we could have all been killed,” said Bailey.

One female student was shot several times during the crossfire. She is expected to make a full recovery.

Police said they are close to making the arrest of the second suspect.



Good guys: 1, Reavers: 0

Good work, and I wish the injured a speedy recovery.




Mercy is the mark of a great man.
Guess I'm just a good man.
Well, I'm alright.

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Wednesday, May 6, 2009 2:00 PM

FREELANCERTEX


shit, good thinking on that kid's part, and effing lucky (though i'm kind of wondering why he was carrying a gun in his backpack at a party...? then again, this proves you never know). good to know that girl is gonna be okay.

things like this make me want my permit that much sooner.


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Wednesday, May 6, 2009 2:07 PM

AG05


Quote:

Originally posted by freelancertex:
(though i'm kind of wondering why he was carrying a gun in his backpack at a party...?

things like this make me want my permit that much sooner.




I'm always amazed at the crap I leave in my backpack after a range day, so it's certainly possible.

As to your permit, get it as soon as you can. Hopefully you'll never need it.

BTW: You're a Texan, right? If so, the proficiency test is a piece of cake if you practice even a little.

Mercy is the mark of a great man.
Guess I'm just a good man.
Well, I'm alright.

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Wednesday, May 6, 2009 2:29 PM

FREELANCERTEX


hm, musta been a range day for him or sumthin. whatever the reason, it was kind of a good crazy random happenstance.

getting my permit as *soon* as i turn 21 (happy birthday present to myself XD).

i'm not a texan but I am in the military, so i know how to shoot already lol.


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Wednesday, May 6, 2009 2:39 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


And then there was guy who was at the range and went to a party with the gun and ammo in his duffle bag (rather than leave it in the car), which he stowed in an out-of-the-way closet. Said gun got stolen by one of the people at the party, and led to a fracas as the guy and his buddies squared off with the thief and his buddies - and multiple attempted murder charges being filed on several parties. Was a trial I was on.

While I'm glad things worked out the way they did in the news story - it was lucky all the way around. Things don't always turn out so well.

***************************************************************

And he never did get the gun back that night.

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Wednesday, May 6, 2009 8:32 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

All things being equal, I think I'd rather die doing something about it than die doing nothing about it.

The 'it' being whatever sort of event that makes me think I'm gonna die.

When a self-defense shooting goes well, people always say the defenders were merely 'lucky' and that things could have gone much worse.

But when someone is slaughtered by a maniac gunman, no one ever says the victims were merely 'unlucky.'

The double standard has always troubled me.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Wednesday, May 6, 2009 9:55 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Bailey said the gunmen started counting bullets. “The other guy asked how many (bullets) he had. He said he had enough,” said Bailey.

And that, right there, is what turned it from a no-shoot to a damn-well-BETTER-shoot situation.

For mine own, however, because of the potentially lethal health consquences, I consider intended rape to be a life threatening event and a must-shoot situation of itself.

Sometimes you have to play a very bad hand cause you got no choice, and that's what this guy did, and to his credit, once he decided to play it, he went double-down going after the second bad guy - coventional tactics would be to find cover and pin the entrance to the other room - but he chose to take the greater risk in the interest of those peoples safety.

That action, more than any other, speaks well of the man.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Wednesday, May 6, 2009 10:39 PM

AGENTROUKA


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:

When a self-defense shooting goes well, people always say the defenders were merely 'lucky' and that things could have gone much worse.

But when someone is slaughtered by a maniac gunman, no one ever says the victims were merely 'unlucky.'

The double standard has always troubled me.




I think it has to do with the responsibility that a person with a gun is imbued with, and with the source of aggression.

When you are attacked, you are the one not prepared. You are at an unfair disadvantage and you have to scramble for th best possible solution. The odds are against you. That's why a successful self-defense is always lucky.

Plus, if someone takes up a gun when other people are involved, he takes up the responsibility for HIS action and how they will affect others, simply because of the power the weapon gives him. If HIS actions lead to unnecessary bloodshed, then people will blame him, because he took power over the group into his own hands, just like the gunman. Know what I mean? The odds are against them to begin with, and to add that responsibility makes him even more lucky if all goes well.

I do, however, not think that no one considers the victims of a violent crime unlucky. What else would you call them? A bad situation is forced on them. That's the definition of bad luck.




I do think the guy is a hero. And it's exactly this sort of scenario that made me change my mind about gun control. The good guy had a gun, as well, knew how to use it and did it with courage and insight.

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Thursday, May 7, 2009 1:12 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Who the heck would think a party in an apt could be held up, robbing them and raping the women?

Glad 1 bad guy is dead.




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Thursday, May 7, 2009 5:14 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello Rouka,

I guess for me the difference is tone.

If someone is murdered by a criminal shooter, they are generally the victim of gun proliferation. Not bad luck. Luck implies some random thing outside of your control. But when someone is shot by a criminal, it seems as though everyone can point to specific, controllable circumstances that would have prevented the tragedy (gun control, usually.)


Yet if someone defends against that same shooter, they are 'lucky.' Things could have gone much worse. They probably endangered other innocents. It almost would have been better for them not to do anything at all. Sure, it worked out THIS time, but what about NEXT time? They're really just a lucky dumbass. And the conclusion drawn ends up being the same as the prior scenario.

--Anthony



"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Thursday, May 7, 2009 5:41 AM

AGENTROUKA


Anthony -

well, if you are going to spin this into conclusions and demands for policy changes, then yes, it describes people who view guns themselves as the problem.

But I do not, and I still see greater exerted "control" in the actions of a criminal gunman carrying out an attack than can ever be in the actions of the startled victim of this attack that is carrying out self-defense.

The former is an action, the latter a reaction with less time for mental preparation.

And I do stand by my early words that taking up a gun for self-defense, especially in a group scenario, gives the defender the same amount of power and thus responsibility as the attacker. He is not only taking his own life into his hands, but that of his fellow victims. NOT everyone can and will handle that power as responsibly as it should be, which is why people are often using cautioning words when it comes to this issue.

There are people who will want to play the hero without using their brains, and methinks people are afraid of encouraging that by paying blind praise to all acts of self-defense.

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Thursday, May 7, 2009 5:56 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

He is not only taking his own life into his hands, but that of his fellow victims. NOT everyone can and will handle that power as responsibly as it should be, which is why people are often using cautioning words when it comes to this issue.

Well said, that's one of the best descriptions I've heard in a while that doesn't involve an agenda on the topic.
Quote:

There are people who will want to play the hero without using their brains, and methinks people are afraid of encouraging that by paying blind praise to all acts of self-defense.

Point taken, the initial engagement might not BE your best moment, especially if a bad guy has the drop on you - but try telling some younger folk that, meh, hell, some older folk too!

Alas that stupidity is not confined to earlier generations regardless of folk pretending it is so.
(Snark aimed at folk too old to drive safely bitching about teen drivers)

From your earlier post...
Quote:

The good guy had a gun, as well, knew how to use it and did it with courage and insight.

That's always my salient point, mind.

Not just load, unload and fire - but know HOW and most importantly WHEN to use it, how to make a fire/no-fire decision, and the importance of doing the job right when you choose to act, something only, ONLY, proper training is gonna help you do, theory and talk be damned.

From all accounts of the situation, I'd not fault the guy a bit for anything beyond not carrying it on his person specifically, but that's such a minor thing in respect to the whole event.

Most folk are actually a little too good-hearted about it, once you make the fire decision as a private citizen there's no obligation to play nice, shooting them in the back without warning is perfectly acceptable - yet most folk can't do it.

Strange that such a thing would improve my faith in people as a whole, but it does.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Thursday, May 7, 2009 7:25 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


http://www.wsbtv.com/news/19365762/detail.html

Not a good idea to keep a gun in a backpack.

That same TV news page reports on 2-headed animals and a 1400 lb man.

Like a black man shooting criminals in self defense is just as rare.

Normally justifiable homicide in self defense gets a black man lynched by media and courts.

Or a black man on bail for stabbing a guy to death 22 times sends a text message to his girlfriend's lover to lure him to a fatal ambush.
www.knoxnews.com/news/2009/may/07/slain-man-was-meet-woman-two-allege/

If he lacks a self-defense license, he gets buttraped by bubba in prison. A guy here in Knoxville this week allegedly fired a gun in self defense, so cops suspended his gun permit and arrested him for "being crazy" and "impersonating a police officer".
www.knoxnews.com/news/2009/may/07/first-creek-shooter-gun-permit-suspe
ndended
/

Kennessaw Georgia city ordinance requires every adult resident to own a gun, no murders in 25 years
www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55288

NASHVILLE TN - A person who legally possesses a gun would not have it seized during periods of martial rule under a proposal headed to the governor for his consideration.
www.knoxnews.com/news/2009/may/07/bill-stopping-confiscation-guns-pass
es-senate
/

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Thursday, May 7, 2009 9:05 AM

HKCAVALIER


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
If someone is murdered by a criminal shooter, they are generally the victim of gun proliferation. Not bad luck. Luck implies some random thing outside of your control. But when someone is shot by a criminal, it seems as though everyone can point to specific, controllable circumstances that would have prevented the tragedy (gun control, usually.)


Yet if someone defends against that same shooter, they are 'lucky.' Things could have gone much worse. They probably endangered other innocents. It almost would have been better for them not to do anything at all. Sure, it worked out THIS time, but what about NEXT time? They're really just a lucky dumbass. And the conclusion drawn ends up being the same as the prior scenario.


Hey Anthony,

I see some very basic psycho-cultural issues behind this. One of the main issues standing in the way of philosophical anarchy working in today's world is the profound discomfort humans display around having power--specifically, the power of life and death. "Good" people in our consumer society, don't tend to do anything or take matters into their own hands--they let the State take care of it, they pay for it, or they deny it away. People can somehow accept violence when someone wearing the appropriate costume is doing it. They even show an uncomplicated acceptance of criminal violence as such. But when some normal joe commits violence of any kind it tends to make people very, very uncomfortable--like the very fabric of society is unraveling!

From an anarchist standpoint, it simply brings the REALITY of the situation home--if violence is deemed necessary by a society, then some individuals within that society are gonna get violent. It's easier to just dress up the actors in costumes of "good guy" and "bad guy" than to look at every last instance of violence and make judgements on a case by case basis. Looking critically at ALL acts of violence tends to disturb folk no end--it interferes with some pretty basic assumptions like "honor thy father and mother," "respect for authority," and "rule of law."

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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