REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Pro-Choice Activist Killed by Christo-Fascist Radicals!

POSTED BY: PIRATECAT
UPDATED: Saturday, June 13, 2009 08:11
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 11489
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Wednesday, June 3, 2009 3:10 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

Originally posted by AgentRouka:
Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:

Okay forget about 'rights' - unfortunate choice of wording. I merely meant to point out that harshness of punishment should be factored into the moral calculation - the question is more complex than 'which is worth more, the life of the mother or the foetus?' since the life of the mother is not typically at risk.



But that's my point exactly.

It doesn't matter whether there is physical risk for the woman. And it's not a question of worth. Both are of equal worth.

But you can take two worthy individuals and very fairly sentence one to death if the only way it can survive is to harvest another person's body against their will.

It's a conflict of interest that the fetus cannot win unless you artificially increase its status and worth over that of the mother, by eliminating her right to say no to being a host and thus strip her of her right to physical self-determination. Hardly fair and hardly consistent with human rights.



Oh that's all you're arguing then? Yeah sure, you had me with your first post and the torture analogy. You swayed me there, and I said something at the time. SargeX also had a good way of describing things.

I've mainly been debating the personal ethics of the issue, thinking how a mother might weigh the decision.


Heads should roll

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Wednesday, June 3, 2009 8:04 PM

AGENTROUKA


Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:

Oh that's all you're arguing then? Yeah sure, you had me with your first post and the torture analogy. You swayed me there, and I said something at the time. SargeX also had a good way of describing things.



Ah! Well, good!

Quote:


I've mainly been debating the personal ethics of the issue, thinking how a mother might weigh the decision.



You mean a woman who is already a mother of living children?

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Wednesday, June 3, 2009 10:22 PM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
I've taken great pains to STOP myself from procreating, in fact.

Mike


Thank God for small favors.

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Thursday, June 4, 2009 2:46 AM

YINYANG

You were busy trying to get yourself lit on fire. It happens.


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:
Quote:

Originally posted by yinyang:

I'm yinyang, and I support abortion. Nice to meet you.


Isuspect you don't understand what I said



Or maybe I understand it perfectly well. Although it might help if you elaborated on what you meant. Because I find few abortions to be tragic, and in fact think that they can often be good things; and rather than just wanting them to remain legal, I would like there to be even greater access to abortion for those that would like them. Which is what I mean by "supporting abortion."

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Thursday, June 4, 2009 2:54 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by yinyang:
Or maybe I understand it perfectly well.


If you do it will be the first time you've replied to anything I've said rather than a knee jerk distortion.
Quote:

Originally posted by yinyang:
Although it might help if you elaborated on what you meant.


It might have helped if you bothered to ask what exactly I meant, but since you made the response you did, that's the sort of response you got back.
Quote:

Originally posted by yinyang:
Because I find few abortions to be tragic, and in fact think that they can often be good things; and rather than just wanting them to remain legal, I would like there to be even greater access to abortion for those that would like them.


Good for you.

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Thursday, June 4, 2009 3:23 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
I've taken great pains to STOP myself from procreating, in fact.

Mike


Thank God for small favors.



You "god" had nothing to do with it. You may as well thank Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny.



Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.


"You're a idiot." -AuRaptor, RWED, May 27, 2009.

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Thursday, June 4, 2009 3:44 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
I've taken great pains to STOP myself from procreating, in fact.

Mike


Thank God for small favors.



You "god" had nothing to do with it. You may as well thank Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny.



My God is the same God as George Washington's, John Adams', Jefferson's, and Lincoln's God. Pity you're a godless, souless, secular humanist who thinks his own ego is the center of the universe.

But besides that, my little 5-word post above was just meant as as a harmless rib at ya, considering as you say we shared some common ground recently. What happenned to your sense of humor?

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Thursday, June 4, 2009 3:51 AM

BYTEMITE


As I recall, Jefferson was unusually secular for his time. He only included the references to God in the Declaration of Independence because he was asked to. Then again, I know he wasn't an atheist, because he sent Lewis and Clark out with specific directions to look for living Mammoths, believing that God would not allow species to go extinct.

In any case, are the personal attacks and attacks on religion really necessary? I thought this was surprisingly civil for an abortion debate, and I'd kind of like to see that keep up. It was refreshing.

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Thursday, June 4, 2009 4:08 AM

YINYANG

You were busy trying to get yourself lit on fire. It happens.


Citizen: I will admit that my initial remark was quite flip, and so I very well could have misunderstood you, especially as the way you constructed your sentence seemed similar to the way moderates are likely to argue that no one likes abortions, but people should have the right to get them anyway. I'm sorry if I read more into your statement than what was already there.

Also, for everyone in general: I read this post and thought of y'all. Perhaps you'll find it interesting or relevant to the discussion.

http://viv.id.au/blog/20090604.5207/on-late-term-abortions-and-sex-edc
ontraception

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Thursday, June 4, 2009 5:18 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


30% of all women in the USA have had an abortion. It's the elephant in the room that nobody talks about. Everyone hates it, until you need one. Among other reasons - birth control fails. Even "the pill".... which carries significant health risks for women... has a failure rate of 1-10% when used correctly.

----------------------
We should have strapped him into a glider, filled it nose heavy w/ explosives, and dropped his Allah lovin' ass into a large, empty field. After which, release wild boars into the area so they could make good use of his remains. Now THAT's justice.- rappy

Yeah, that's what Sheikh Issa said. Seems you both have a lot in common.- signy

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Thursday, June 4, 2009 5:25 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


"Humans are the only species that do it for pleasure. Am I right?"

No. Bonobo chimps infamously have sex with both sexes at any time for pleasure and social bonding. Male dogs sometimes hump anything that moves - or even lifeless objects. Etc. Suffice to say there are plenty of examples of species that have sex for fun. And, it is the 'fun' of sex that induces the procreation act, not the other way around. (Do you think that an animal is saying - I must procreate ! Time to have sex !) Also, there are many, many animals that have sex with the same sex (gay and lesbian, if you will) who are obviously not having sex to procreate.

I could go on, but I have to work.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Thursday, June 4, 2009 6:20 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by yinyang:
Citizen: I will admit that my initial remark was quite flip, and so I very well could have misunderstood you, especially as the way you constructed your sentence seemed similar to the way moderates are likely to argue that no one likes abortions, but people should have the right to get them anyway.


Does anyone like abortions? When I like something, I enjoy it and aim to get it as often as is within reason. I aim to set up situations where I can partake in said activity. I like Ice Cream, so I occasionally make sure I go to the shops, and buy it. Sometimes I even go just to get ice cream. Eating Ice Cream isn't the best of a number of options for me, it's something I do when I don't have to, or even when it's not just the best choice of options, because I like it.

Liking abortion to me sounds rather like a woman who says to herself "you know, I really like abortions, I'm going to get pregnant so I can have one". Like the laughable caricature paraded by the Far Right, or Philip K Dick in his short story "The Pre-persons" for that matter:
Quote:

"Let's have an abortion!" Cynthia declared excitedly as she entered the house with an armload of synthogroceries. "Wouldn't that be neat? Doesn't that turn you on?"
...
"it's the in thing now, to have an abortion."



I don't believe there is such a person outside the fevered imagination of the extremists. If you're such a person, then I stand corrected, but until stated otherwise I refuse to accept it.

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Thursday, June 4, 2009 6:20 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
I've taken great pains to STOP myself from procreating, in fact.

Mike


Thank God for small favors.



You "god" had nothing to do with it. You may as well thank Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny.



My God is the same God as George Washington's, John Adams', Jefferson's, and Lincoln's God. Pity you're a godless, souless, secular humanist who thinks his own ego is the center of the universe.

But besides that, my little 5-word post above was just meant as as a harmless rib at ya, considering as you say we shared some common ground recently. What happenned to your sense of humor?



Yeah, that's really funny. Oh, hey - I hope your wife and kids all die, ha-ha.

Your "god" resides in your ass, inside your own head which is firmly planted there.

But hey, it's all harmless ribbing, so you can't get mad about it!

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.


"You're a idiot." -AuRaptor, RWED, May 27, 2009.

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Thursday, June 4, 2009 6:25 AM

CITIZEN


[sarcasm]
Kwicko, please stop bullying poor poor defenceless Jongsstraw for no reason!
[/sarcasm]

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Thursday, June 4, 2009 6:33 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Thank God for small favors.


----------------------------------------
Quote:

Yeah, that's really funny. Oh, hey - I hope your wife and kids all die, ha-ha.


Are you totally fucked Kwikkie? I wrote "Thank God for small favors"...and you fucking go off on me? Go fuck yourself you pathetic asshole.


And Citizen...is it your mission here to fuck with everyone? I have avoided all your nasty shit here for the last several days, but you just can't control yourself now, can you. Take your crooked yellow Limey teeth and bite yourself hard.

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Thursday, June 4, 2009 6:35 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

Male dogs sometimes hump anything that moves - or even lifeless objects. Etc. Suffice to say there are plenty of examples of species that have sex for fun.


I'm not sure this is a good way to interpret things - are you sure that the dog is acting this way for 'the fun of it'? Urges =/= pleasure. I would say that animals are taken over by their urges and don't know what they're doing - but that's ok because they're not rational creatures who have to rationalise their behaviour afterwards. I think pleasure in sex for humans is something special, supplementary to the basic urge, that helps us justify/rationalise performing the act - we can think of sex (casual, especially) as an appealing choice that we make, rather than us just getting taken over by animal urges.

Heads should roll

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Thursday, June 4, 2009 6:40 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Yep, Rue beat me to the punch on that one...

I had a male cat named Mooch that was a damn horny little bastard, hell, he practically had a harem as there were usually a couple femme cats sitting around near the doorstep when I came home from work to let him out for a while.

The funniest of that was when he tried to get busy with the neighbors male german shepard about three times his size, and proceeded to get body-checked into a fence with the mutt giving him this "WTF is the MATTER with you?!" look on his little doggy face.

I'm generally of the opinion that the male of ANY species is prettymuch willing to hump anything that moves, and yanno, there's plenty of empirical evidence for that opinion.


-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Thursday, June 4, 2009 6:43 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Are you totally fucked Kwikkie? I wrote "Thank God for small favors"...and you fucking go off on me? Go fuck yourself you pathetic asshole.


And Citizen...is it your mission here to fuck with everyone? I have avoided all your nasty shit here for the last several days, but you just can't control yourself now, can you. Take your crooked yellow Limey teeth and bite yourself hard.


QED.

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Thursday, June 4, 2009 6:46 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:
Quote:

Originally posted by yinyang:
Citizen: I will admit that my initial remark was quite flip, and so I very well could have misunderstood you, especially as the way you constructed your sentence seemed similar to the way moderates are likely to argue that no one likes abortions, but people should have the right to get them anyway.


Does anyone like abortions? When I like something, I enjoy it and aim to get it as often as is within reason. I aim to set up situations where I can partake in said activity. I like Ice Cream, so I occasionally make sure I go to the shops, and buy it. Sometimes I even go just to get ice cream. Eating Ice Cream isn't the best of a number of options for me, it's something I do when I don't have to, or even when it's not just the best choice of options, because I like it.

Liking abortion to me sounds rather like a woman who says to herself "you know, I really like abortions, I'm going to get pregnant so I can have one". Like the laughable caricature paraded by the Far Right, or Philip K Dick in his short story "The Pre-persons" for that matter:
Quote:

"Let's have an abortion!" Cynthia declared excitedly as she entered the house with an armload of synthogroceries. "Wouldn't that be neat? Doesn't that turn you on?"
...
"it's the in thing now, to have an abortion."



I don't believe there is such a person outside the fevered imagination of the extremists. If you're such a person, then I stand corrected, but until stated otherwise I refuse to accept it.



You can support abortion as the best of two bad options, and you don't have to like it. I don't think yinyang or anyone here is talking about supporting abortions for the perverse pleasure of it.

Do you accept it as a preferred choice of birth control though citizen?

Heads should roll

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Thursday, June 4, 2009 6:57 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:
You can support abortion as the best of two bad options, and you don't have to like it. I don't think yinyang or anyone here is talking about supporting abortions for the perverse pleasure of it.


That was my point.
Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:
Do you accept it as a preferred choice of birth control though citizen?


No.

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Thursday, June 4, 2009 6:57 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

Originally posted by AgentRouka:

You mean a woman who is already a mother of living children?



Let's say 'pregnant woman' then.

Heads should roll

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Thursday, June 4, 2009 7:02 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by kpo:
Do you accept it as a preferred choice of birth control though citizen?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


No.



So would you make moral judgments on a woman who does so?

Heads should roll

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Thursday, June 4, 2009 7:35 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

are you sure that the dog is acting this way for 'the fun of it'
yes. Same as people. People don't have sex because they want children. They have sex because it's intrinsically rewarding. It's like eating. People don't eat to be well - nourished, they eat because it's instrinsically rewarding. Whether you want to call that "fun" or relieving urges ... same difference.



----------------------
We should have strapped him into a glider, filled it nose heavy w/ explosives, and dropped his Allah lovin' ass into a large, empty field. After which, release wild boars into the area so they could make good use of his remains. Now THAT's justice.- rappy

Yeah, that's what Sheikh Issa said. Seems you both have a lot in common.- signy

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Thursday, June 4, 2009 7:50 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Thank God for small favors.


----------------------------------------
Quote:

Yeah, that's really funny. Oh, hey - I hope your wife and kids all die, ha-ha.


Are you totally fucked Kwikkie? I wrote "Thank God for small favors"...and you fucking go off on me? Go fuck yourself you pathetic asshole.


And Citizen...is it your mission here to fuck with everyone? I have avoided all your nasty shit here for the last several days, but you just can't control yourself now, can you. Take your crooked yellow Limey teeth and bite yourself hard.



I "go off" on you in the same fashion as you "go off" on me. I state that I have no children, to which you reply "Thank god for small favors." In other words, you strongly imply that you're glad that I wasn't able to father children, or that my children died in utero. You claim to be a "christian" and believe in god, but you're only too happy to celebrate another human's inability to reproduce without significant probabilities of profoundly damaged and deformed offspring.

You never bothered to ask, you just decided to be a dick about it. I responded in kind. Sorry, but it touched a nerve.



Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.


"You're a idiot." -AuRaptor, RWED, May 27, 2009.

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Thursday, June 4, 2009 7:54 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


All right, eating is a good example - you have the urge, and then it's rewarding when you satisfy it.

It's the same thing with relieving yourself in the bathroom, or scratching an itch, but, human orgasms are a little bit more than this...

Can you say the same for other animals?

Heads should roll

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Thursday, June 4, 2009 7:56 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:
All right, eating is a good example - you have the urge, and then it's rewarding when you satisfy it.

It's the same thing with relieving yourself in the bathroom, or scratching an itch, but, human orgasms are a little bit more than this...

Can you say the same for other animals?

Heads should roll



Can you say with any kind of proof that they AREN'T this way for other animals?

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.


"You're a idiot." -AuRaptor, RWED, May 27, 2009.

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Thursday, June 4, 2009 8:07 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


I was asking a question, and inviting people to think. You guys can be pretty rigid sometimes.

I can go away and do some research and present my case, and then we can contest the whole issue from entrenched positions - or we could share info and opinions, and learn from each other.

Heads should roll

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Thursday, June 4, 2009 8:17 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

Are you totally fucked Kwikkie? I wrote "Thank God for small favors"


It was a good line Jong, but not appropriate to somebody you don't already have that kind of rapport with, I would say.

Heads should roll

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Thursday, June 4, 2009 8:24 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:
So would you make moral judgments on a woman who does so?


Nope. But really my own thoughts and feelings are rather less important, they say you should never judge a man, and presumably a woman also, until you've walked in their shoes, and there really is bugger all chance of me ever needing an abortion. Being you know male and all.

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Thursday, June 4, 2009 8:54 AM

BYTEMITE


Kpo: Pigs have been scientifically observed to have particularly intense orgasms, as I recall.

You might want to be careful if you google that to confirm, though. Me, I'm going to avoid THAT minefield, and I hope no one holds it against me.

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Thursday, June 4, 2009 9:16 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
You never bothered to ask, you just decided to be a dick about it. I responded in kind. Sorry, but it touched a nerve.


Oh bullshit.

YOU SAID :
Originally posted by Kwicko:
"I've taken great pains to STOP myself from procreating, in fact."

And from that you infer I made fun of your ability to have children?????????

If you had said you cannot have children, I would not have jokingly responded the way I did....

Plz re-read the whole thing again. I'll accept your apology without malice if you can.

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Thursday, June 4, 2009 11:10 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)



"I've taken great pains to STOP myself from procreating, in fact.

That doesn't mean I *can't* have children; it means I in all likelihood *shouldn't*. Earlier in life, I took pains to stop from procreating simply because I wasn't ready to be a father. Later, after I found out the horrors that prolonged dioxyn exposure (2, 4, 5T, the active ingredient in Agent Orange - you didn't think we only used it in 'Nam, did you?) would likely visit upon any children I might father, it seemed a prudent choice to nip that in the bud, as it were.



Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.


"You're a idiot." -AuRaptor, RWED, May 27, 2009.

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Thursday, June 4, 2009 11:11 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:
I was asking a question, and inviting people to think. You guys can be pretty rigid sometimes.

I can go away and do some research and present my case, and then we can contest the whole issue from entrenched positions - or we could share info and opinions, and learn from each other.

Heads should roll



Well, granted, and it DID make me think - hence the question I asked you, in an effort to make YOU think about it.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.


"You're a idiot." -AuRaptor, RWED, May 27, 2009.

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Thursday, June 4, 2009 11:29 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:
Quote:

Are you totally fucked Kwikkie? I wrote "Thank God for small favors"


It was a good line Jong, but not appropriate to somebody you don't already have that kind of rapport with, I would say.

Heads should roll



Yeah, and he and I *DEFINITELY* don't have that kind of rapport, to put it mildly.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.


"You're a idiot." -AuRaptor, RWED, May 27, 2009.

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Thursday, June 4, 2009 12:57 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


"It's the same thing with relieving yourself in the bathroom, or scratching an itch, but, human orgasms are a little bit more than this...

Can you say the same for other animals?"

Human orgasms more than eating ? How so ?


***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Thursday, June 4, 2009 12:59 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
"It's the same thing with relieving yourself in the bathroom, or scratching an itch, but, human orgasms are a little bit more than this...

Can you say the same for other animals?"

Human orgasms more than eating ? How so ?


***************************************************************

Silence is consent.



Well, if I really HAD to, I could probably go a few days without eating!



Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.


"You're a idiot." -AuRaptor, RWED, May 27, 2009.

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Thursday, June 4, 2009 1:05 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


BWHAHAHAHA!

----------------------
We should have strapped him into a glider, filled it nose heavy w/ explosives, and dropped his Allah lovin' ass into a large, empty field. After which, release wild boars into the area so they could make good use of his remains. Now THAT's justice.- rappy

Yeah, that's what Sheikh Issa said. Seems you both have a lot in common.- signy

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Thursday, June 4, 2009 1:05 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


OH !

I, uhhh ... ... have no comment at the moment.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Thursday, June 4, 2009 1:37 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
OH !

I, uhhh ... ... have no comment at the moment.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.




Blushing AND speechless! A first!


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Friday, June 5, 2009 1:43 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:
Quote:

Are you totally fucked Kwikkie? I wrote "Thank God for small favors"


It was a good line Jong, but not appropriate to somebody you don't already have that kind of rapport with, I would say.

Heads should roll



Yeah, and he and I *DEFINITELY* don't have that kind of rapport, to put it mildly.



Right, that's what made it totally appropriate. I excersized great restaint with just a 5-word jab. Whatevers haoli.

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Friday, June 5, 2009 1:52 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:
Quote:

Are you totally fucked Kwikkie? I wrote "Thank God for small favors"


It was a good line Jong, but not appropriate to somebody you don't already have that kind of rapport with, I would say.

Heads should roll



Yeah, and he and I *DEFINITELY* don't have that kind of rapport, to put it mildly.



Right, that's what made it totally appropriate. I excersized great restaint with just a 5-word jab. Whatevers haoli.



As did I, haoli.

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Friday, June 5, 2009 4:15 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:
I was asking a question, and inviting people to think. You guys can be pretty rigid sometimes.

I can go away and do some research and present my case, and then we can contest the whole issue from entrenched positions - or we could share info and opinions, and learn from each other.

Heads should roll



Well, granted, and it DID make me think - hence the question I asked you, in an effort to make YOU think about it.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.


"You're a idiot." -AuRaptor, RWED, May 27, 2009.



Well I had already thought about it, so I started doing some research instead.

These Bonobo chimps are interesting - I didn't know there were 2 species of chimpanzee. Thought to have been separated from other chimps by the formation of the Congo river 1.5–2 million years ago, and evolved separately. And as well as some different features, they've evolved a very different societal structure to regular chimps, very free-loving and matriarchal. Makes me wonder if human society could've (or still might) evolve similarly under some slightly different evolutionary pressures. And if we were to meet humanoid aliens in the future what kind of society they might have...



Heads should roll

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Friday, June 12, 2009 6:55 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Why is Tiller's alleged killer doing press conferences?
Listen instead to the people giving testimonials to the doctor: His family, his patients, his colleagues.

By Gene Lyons


Protesters from the Rev. Fred Phelps' Westboro Baptist Church demonstrate during funeral services for Dr. George Tiller in Wichita, Kan., June 6.

June 11, 2009 | Since when do imprisoned terrorists get to hold press conferences? I speak of Scott Roeder, the accused assassin of Dr. George Tiller. Roeder's alleged crime was also a sacrilege: He gunned down the physician during Sunday worship services at Reformation Lutheran Church, where Tiller served as an usher.

A classic Midwestern lone demento, Roeder appears to envision himself as a soldier in an avenging army. They always do, don't they? Broke and alone, according to one of his ex-wives, Roeder ranted constantly against God's enemies, as defined by him. Police arresting him found explosives in his car, a 1993 Ford Taurus listed as his only asset.

Roeder phoned the AP from a Wichita jail cell to complain of poor treatment and to warn, "I know there are many other similar events planned around the country as long as abortion remains legal."

Sheriff's deputies will surely keep a closer eye on him. As for the warning, all it probably means is that Roeder is familiar with fellow extremists venting in Internet chat rooms. The prospect of a federal investigation into possible accomplices may have damped their enthusiasm, although some get off on feeling persecuted.

Meanwhile, hundreds of mourners attended Tiller's funeral, where they heard him "eulogized as a loving father and friend, a regular guy, a lover of Elvis and old movies, of ice cream and axioms," according to Fred Mann in the Wichita Eagle. Tiller's son described his murder this way: "I believe that God decided, 'You have done everything I asked a person to do here on earth. Now I will show the world what a loving, compassionate, courageous, selfless man you are.' And so it happened."

To antiabortion absolutists who dubbed him "Tiller the killer," this must be incomprehensible. Fox News viewers regularly heard him described as a "mass murderer" by bully-boy commentator Bill O'Reilly. He depicted Tiller as a conscienceless profiteer who "destroys fetuses for just about any reason right up until the birth date for $5,000."

Comparing Tiller to Hitler, Stalin and Osama bin Laden, O'Reilly argued that his unwillingness to turn over patient records to a crusading Kansas prosecutor made him an accomplice of pedophiles who impregnated children.

After a Wichita jury acquitted Tiller of violating Kansas law restricting late-term abortions, deliberating for only 45 minutes after days of testimony, O'Reilly all but pronounced the whole state guilty. "If I could get my hands on Tiller," O'Reilly thundered, "Well, you know. Can't be vigilantes. Can't do that. It's just a figure of speech. But despicable? Oh, my God. Oh, it doesn't get worse."

Like Operation Rescue founder Randall Terry, who'd moved his organization to Wichita largely for the purpose of harassing Tiller and his patients, O'Reilly spent last week denying responsibility. Not his fault, oh no.

Terry blamed the victim. "George Tiller was a mass murderer and horrifically, he reaped what he sowed," he said.

Then why did that Kansas jury acquit him? Essentially because while propagandists obscured it, Tiller's medical practice had almost nothing to do with abstract moral and theological arguments about when life begins.

Quite like the Terri Schiavo case, it had to do with irreparable tragedies at life's end: catastrophically deformed fetuses; pregnant children too young to carry a baby to term; suicidal, retarded or mentally ill victims of statutory rape; and women stricken by cancer or other deadly complications.

Who should make such heart-rending decisions? You? Me? Bill O'Reilly? Even the Vatican recently advised compassion in the case of a 9-year-old Brazilian child raped by her stepfather. But because such conditions often fail to become manifest until later in pregnancy, many doctors, out of religious conviction, fear or a simple lack of expertise cannot deal with them. To such patients and their families, Tiller seemed a kind of saint.

"George took them when they were not able to pay for his services," writes Dr. Bill Harrison in the Arkansas Times. A retired Fayetteville physician long-targeted by antiabortion activists, Harrison sometimes gave patients cash for the sorrowful drive to Wichita. To enter Tiller's clinic, they often had to pass through gantlets of screaming demonstrators.

On a Web site called "A Heartbreaking Choice," one patient writes how awful she felt being jeered by schoolchildren who had "no understanding of what we were going through but ... taught they had the right to judge us."

"I was afraid I would emerge from the clinic broken and unable to be fixed," she continues. "I thought I would lose my son, my marriage, and myself. I was also angry. I was angry with God that He 'let this happen.' I was angry with my husband that he couldn't fix it. Mostly I was angry with myself because I hadn't been able to save my son."

Something has gone badly wrong in a culture that turns such human tragedy into bombastic TV infotainment.

© 2009 by Gene Lyons. Distributed by Newspaper Enterprise Assn.


***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Friday, June 12, 2009 7:03 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


"Quite like the Terri Schiavo case, it had to do with irreparable tragedies at life's end: catastrophically deformed fetuses; pregnant children too young to carry a baby to term; suicidal, retarded or mentally ill victims of statutory rape; and women stricken by cancer or other deadly complications".

NOT lazy, neurotic, or morally deficient/ callous women. THAT description belongs to others.

----------------------
We should have strapped him into a glider, filled it nose heavy w/ explosives, and dropped his Allah lovin' ass into a large, empty field. After which, release wild boars into the area so they could make good use of his remains. Now THAT's justice.- rappy

Yeah, that's what Sheikh Issa said. Seems you both have a lot in common.- signy

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Friday, June 12, 2009 7:28 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Olbermann/ Madow: Said Bush & Cheney are war criminals hundreds of times

Olbermann/Madow: Said America is a torture nation hundreds of times

Olbermann/Madow: Said US soldiers kill innocent Muslims hundreds of times
--------------------------------------------

Now a US Muslim goes out and kills a US Army recruiter purely for revenge for Islam last week. AP interviews killer who admits doing the murder, but thinks it's justified. Any responsiblity there for MSNBC and NBC for the American soldier's senseless murder like you're trying to hang on O'Reilly's neck? Why so much empathy for Tiller, and little or none for a decorated US soldier murdered for wearing a soldier's uniform?

The dozen or so times Oreilly has done stories on Tiller over many years he has never advocated violence against Tiller. The hundreds of times Olbermann/MSNBC has labled America as torturers and war criminals they've never advocated violence either. There are menatlly ill nut jobs of all persuasions, and murder incidents should not be fodder for politics. The KKK guy who killed a security guard in DC this week had O'Reilly on his list of "bad" people. How does that fit in with right-wing nut job? The answer is there is no rationality in any of these cases.

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Friday, June 12, 2009 8:40 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


"he has never advocated violence against Tiller"

Go look up the thread - 'the demonization of the opposition'. Simply portraying people in sub-human terms makes it easy to not see them as people. It IS the first step to political violence against others - as anyone who has followed the Serbs and the Hutus will tell you.

***************************************************************

Or, you can go put on your blinkers, plug your ears, and hum loudly.

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Friday, June 12, 2009 8:53 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Bill O'Reilly encourages and incites violence.

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Friday, June 12, 2009 8:53 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
"he has never advocated violence against Tiller"

Go look up the thread - 'the demonization of the opposition'. Simply portraying people in sub-human terms makes it easy to not see them as people. It IS the first step to political violence against others - as anyone who has followed the Serbs and the Hutus will tell you.

***************************************************************

Or, you can go put on your blinkers, plug your ears, and hum loudly.


I guess your "ears are plugged" also, as you simply ignored and gave no response to the MSNBC liability question for the murder of a US soldier. There's no difference, and you just can't admit it because you hate O'Reilly and Fox News. All clear-thinking people see this for what it is, but obtuse, dis-honest, ideocentric twits like you don't even try. Very sad!

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Friday, June 12, 2009 8:57 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Bill O'Reilly encourages and incites violence.


Just as much as you do.

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Friday, June 12, 2009 9:18 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Where? Have I ever said that the Pentagon should be bombed, like Bill said that al Qaida should bomb San Fran? Have I ever insinuated that it would be a nice thing if someone would take out George Bush? Or that it was too bad that Flight 93 didn't reach its destination? Or that we "should have strapped him (them, they) into a glider, filled it nose heavy w/ explosives, and dropped his {their) ass into a large, empty field."?

It would help, Jongssy, if you had any facts on your side but you don't. That big bulky doublethink that you and so many like you are disabled by... the one that causes you to see some things one way and the exact same thing differently... the chasm that separates one thought from another... It's staring you right in the face, at the end of every one of my posts, but you can't see it. You're just a fool. And a tool.

----------------------
We should have strapped him into a glider, filled it nose heavy w/ explosives, and dropped his Allah lovin' ass into a large, empty field. After which, release wild boars into the area so they could make good use of his remains. Now THAT's justice.- rappy

Yeah, that's what Sheikh Issa said. Seems you both have a lot in common.- signy

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