REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Obama's speech in Cairo

POSTED BY: SKYWALKEN
UPDATED: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 06:21
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Thursday, June 4, 2009 11:34 AM

SKYWALKEN


Here's an assessment of it:

Quote:

President Obama's speech in Cairo was historic. No other President has gone to a foreign nation to so publicly throw a strong ally under the bus. Once again the President, pandered to the Muslim world by dissing Israel in a major way, he downplayed the role of terrorism, made Hamas look like a rowdy Boys Glee Club, called for the internationalization of Jerusalem, and used the Palestinian party line to describe the Israeli presence not only in the West Bank and Gaza but its VERY existence at all:

He started his Israel/Palestinian discussion by talking about the Holocaust and Anti-Semitism:

The second major source of tension that we need to discuss is the situation between Israelis, Palestinians and the Arab world.

America's strong bonds with Israel are well known. This bond is unbreakable. It is based upon cultural and historical ties, and the recognition that the aspiration for a Jewish homeland is rooted in a tragic history that cannot be denied.

Around the world, the Jewish people were persecuted for centuries, and anti-Semitism in Europe culminated in an unprecedented Holocaust. Tomorrow, I will visit Buchenwald, which was part of a network of camps where Jews were enslaved, tortured, shot and gassed to death by the Third Reich. Six million Jews were killed - more than the entire Jewish population of Israel today. Denying that fact is baseless, ignorant, and hateful. Threatening Israel with destruction - or repeating vile stereotypes about Jews - is deeply wrong, and only serves to evoke in the minds of Israelis this most painful of memories while preventing the peace that the people of this region deserve.


You notice that how he discusses Anti-Semitism, without mentioning the fact that the Muslim Middle East is the major supplier of Anti-Semitic fervor in the world.

Obama then goes on to talk about the 60+ years of Palestinian suffering, taking the Palestinian view that the very creation of Israel was bad. He mixes the "Christian" Palestinians with the Muslim ones, ignoring the horrible persecution of Palestinian Christians by their Muslim neighbors. Obama also discusses Gaza as an occupied territory. Er..Mr. President maybe you didn't read the newspapers in August 2005, but Israel pulled out of Gaza almost four years ago. I know--I was in Jerusalem at the time.

On the other hand, it is also undeniable that the Palestinian people - Muslims and Christians - have suffered in pursuit of a homeland. For more than sixty years they have endured the pain of dislocation. Many wait in refugee camps in the West Bank, Gaza, and neighboring lands for a life of peace and security that they have never been able to lead. They endure the daily humiliations - large and small - that come with occupation. So let there be no doubt: the situation for the Palestinian people is intolerable. America will not turn our backs on the legitimate Palestinian aspiration for dignity, opportunity, and a state of their own.

Obama also forgot to mention the role of Egypt and Jordan in making sure that the Palestinians stayed in camps and the fact that there were more Jews thrown out of Muslim countries in 1948 than Arabs leaving Israel. A mistake he repeats below:

For decades, there has been a stalemate: two peoples with legitimate aspirations, each with a painful history that makes compromise elusive. It is easy to point fingers - for Palestinians to point to the displacement brought by Israel's founding, and for Israelis to point to the constant hostility and attacks throughout its history from within its borders as well as beyond. But if we see this conflict only from one side or the other, then we will be blind to the truth: the only resolution is for the aspirations of both sides to be met through two states, where Israelis and Palestinians each live in peace and security.

Displacement? I am surprised he didn't use the word nabka (catastrophe) that's what the Muslims call it. Again accepting Muslim propaganda, the President doesn't make the point that the Arab Palestinian's weren't thrown out, the were told to leave by the Arab League states.

That is in Israel's interest, Palestine's interest, America's interest, and the world's interest. That is why I intend to personally pursue this outcome with all the patience that the task requires. The obligations that the parties have agreed to under the Road Map are clear. For peace to come, it is time for them - and all of us - to live up to our responsibilities.

Palestinians must abandon violence. Resistance through violence and killing is wrong and does not succeed. For centuries, black people in America suffered the lash of the whip as slaves and the humiliation of segregation. But it was not violence that won full and equal rights. It was a peaceful and determined insistence upon the ideals at the center of America's founding. This same story can be told by people from South Africa to South Asia; from Eastern Europe to Indonesia. It's a story with a simple truth: that violence is a dead end. It is a sign of neither courage nor power to shoot rockets at sleeping children, or to blow up old women on a bus. That is not how moral authority is claimed; that is how it is surrendered.


Violence? You mean Terrorism? No because in the next few lines he reaches out to HAMAS:

Now is the time for Palestinians to focus on what they can build. The Palestinian Authority must develop its capacity to govern, with institutions that serve the needs of its people. Hamas does have support among some Palestinians, but they also have responsibilities. To play a role in fulfilling Palestinian aspirations, and to unify the Palestinian people, Hamas must put an end to violence, recognize past agreements, and recognize Israel's right to exist.

He makes Hamas seem like naughty children, "OK Hamas stop hitting your brother." Here again what Obama doesn't say is just as bad as what he says, "recognize Israel's right to exist." The words he missed is ..as a Jewish state. Neither Hamas or the supposedly moderate Fatah recognize Israel as a Jewish State, they both call for flooding the country with millions of Muslims to ensure that Israel becomes another Muslim country:

At the same time, Israelis must acknowledge that just as Israel's right to exist cannot be denied, neither can Palestine's. The United States does not accept the legitimacy of continued Israeli settlements. This construction violates previous agreements and undermines efforts to achieve peace. It is time for these settlements to stop.

We have discussed this Ad nauseam during the past few days, by saying this, not only is Obama throwing Israel to the international wolves, but he is ignoring agreements that previous administrations made with Israel about natural growth of existing settlements.

Israel must also live up to its obligations to ensure that Palestinians can live, and work, and develop their society. And just as it devastates Palestinian families, the continuing humanitarian crisis in Gaza does not serve Israel's security; neither does the continuing lack of opportunity in the West Bank. Progress in the daily lives of the Palestinian people must be part of a road to peace, and Israel must take concrete steps to enable such progress.

This was one of Bibi Netanyahu's campaign promises, but not as an obligation as a way to peace. This is not Israel's obligation, this is the obligation of Egypt and Jordan who created the problem.

His discussion of the "humanitarian crisis" was a bit disingenuous. Maybe he should have mention why Israel closed the borders, and the fact that Hamas has been stealing many of the supplies heading to Gaza.

Finally, the Arab States must recognize that the Arab Peace Initiative was an important beginning, but not the end of their responsibilities. The Arab-Israeli conflict should no longer be used to distract the people of Arab nations from other problems. Instead, it must be a cause for action to help the Palestinian people develop the institutions that will sustain their state; to recognize Israel's legitimacy; and to choose progress over a self-defeating focus on the past.

Again he doesn't call for the recognition of Israel as a Jewish state. Now he calls for the internationalization of Israel's capital Jerusalem:

America will align our policies with those who pursue peace, and say in public what we say in private to Israelis and Palestinians and Arabs. We cannot impose peace. But privately, many Muslims recognize that Israel will not go away. Likewise, many Israelis recognize the need for a Palestinian state. It is time for us to act on what everyone knows to be true.

Too many tears have flowed. Too much blood has been shed. All of us have a responsibility to work for the day when the mothers of Israelis and Palestinians can see their children grow up without fear; when the Holy Land of three great faiths is the place of peace that God intended it to be; when Jerusalem is a secure and lasting home for Jews and Christians and Muslims, and a place for all of the children of Abraham to mingle peacefully together as in the story of Isra, when Moses, Jesus, and Mohammed (peace be upon them) joined in prayer.


During the campaign, I warned all lovers of Israel, that Barack Obama would abandon the state of Israel, today he foreshadowed that abandonment to the Muslim world.



http://yidwithlid.blogspot.com/2009/06/obamas-cairo-speech-threw-israe
l-under.html

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Thursday, June 4, 2009 12:54 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Oh please, it's not like EVERYONE ELSE ON THE PLANET not only knows that Israel as a country is acting like a mentally and emotionally damaged child unknowingly emulating their abuser in adulthood (i.e. The fekkin Nazis) but unlike us most of them are willing to CALL them on it.

Ally my *ass* - if any other nation did HALF the shit they've pulled to us, and that's just counting the stuff we know about, that they admitted to, we'd be at war with them - they are the primary recipient of foreign aid, 31% of the total, millions of OUR TAX DOLLARS, not to mention loads and loads of military equipment at pennies on the dollar - which they use in terror campaigns against other countries who're quite rightfully pissed about it, they use to commit sabotage and espionage against us, their so-called allies, up to and including subversion of our political process by buying off and/or blackmailing our own politicians to bend OUR Government to their whim and pour MORE of our tax money down a freakin rathole when all we get for it is espionage, sabotage, propagana, backstabbing and hatred cause we're not proper zionstas and therefore somehow "inferior" ?

Fuck em, they DESERVE to be thrown under the bus if not worse - maybe if they didn't treat Palestine exactly like Hitler treated Poland, there might be an ounce of sympathy, maybe if they didn't spend so much time fucking us over EVERY CHANCE THEY GET, there might be some commiseration...

But no, they chose to act in the fashion they have for no better reason that they can do it, get away with it, and the primary world power for the moment is unwilling to make an issue of it, even supports it - despite the fact that they're a fuckin parasite offering no benefit to us and only misery.

Tell me, do you feel sorry for a bloodsucking tick likely to give ya lyme disease when you get the damn thing to let go ?
No, and often as not you kill the goddamn thing out of spite too, something Israel should really start thinkin about when Americans as a whole are finally realizing this "ally" is nothing of the sort.

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Thursday, June 4, 2009 1:07 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Amen Frem.

No sympathy here for poow wittle Iswael.



----------------------
We should have strapped him into a glider, filled it nose heavy w/ explosives, and dropped his Allah lovin' ass into a large, empty field. After which, release wild boars into the area so they could make good use of his remains. Now THAT's justice.- rappy

Yeah, that's what Sheikh Issa said. Seems you both have a lot in common.- signy

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Thursday, June 4, 2009 1:16 PM

BYTEMITE


Finally, something Obama is keeping his promises on. Of course, he's probably going to break them the next week... Hey, maybe we'll invade Pakistan. The Middle East will LOVE that.

If we ever want peace between Muslims and Isreal, then yes, eventually, we have to reach out to the Muslims. That doesn't mean we have to turn our backs on Isreal, it's not ONE or the OTHER.

Apparently the speech had omissions on the part of what Hamas and Muslims have done to Isreal. I can understand people being upset about that, or as seeing the debate as being misconstrued or skewed, spinned, twisted, whatever you want to call it.

But heck, just recognizing that Isreal has done crap to Muslims instead of just turning a blind eye because they're our propped up puppet government ally in the Middle East is a positive step towards peace, in my book. If Muslims hear the President addressing their concerns and beliefs with an open mind, they'll feel more likely they'll be listened to, and more willing to cooperate.

And if they're more willing to cooperate, there's fewer dead Isreali and Muslim families.

He talked about the holocaust and put down all those hurtful assertations that it never happened, in a way that Muslims hopefully will listen to. And he talked about Hamas as he would talk about a legally elected government that he would like to try to enter into peace negotiations with.

The truth is, the creation of Isreal WAS hastily done, and we did so during an unruly time in the Middle East that we CAUSED to be unstable post WWI. And that the creation of Isreal only destabilized the area and situation further. Now that Isreal is there, we have an obligation to keep the people of Isreal from being killed, and placating the people who want to kill them goes a long way.

Quite frankly, that blogger writing the editorial and making all those accusations about Obama's agenda is a pro-Isreal nationalist, NOT pro-Isreal. Isreal doesn't need to keep up a pissing match with the Muslim world, it needs peace.

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Thursday, June 4, 2009 1:21 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


ByteMite, you sound like a commie...



[Please know that I'm joking.]


Skywalken, you have no opinions of your own on this?

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.


"You're a idiot." -AuRaptor, RWED, May 27, 2009.

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Thursday, June 4, 2009 1:54 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)



Here's MY assessment of it:

Quote:

President Obama's speech in Cairo was historic. No other President has gone to a foreign nation to so publicly throw a strong ally under the bus. Once again the President, pandered to the Muslim world by dissing Israel in a major way, he downplayed the role of terrorism, made Hamas look like a rowdy Boys Glee Club...


Hey - now if only they'd subject some people to their own special versions of "harmless fraternity pranks", they'd be welcomed and accepted by Bush and his crowd of ivory-tower ivy-league elitists!

Quote:


...called for the internationalization of Jerusalem, and used the Palestinian party line to describe the Israeli presence not only in the West Bank and Gaza but its VERY existence at all:

He started his Israel/Palestinian discussion by talking about the Holocaust and Anti-Semitism:

The second major source of tension that we need to discuss is the situation between Israelis, Palestinians and the Arab world.

America's strong bonds with Israel are well known. This bond is unbreakable. It is based upon cultural and historical ties, and the recognition that the aspiration for a Jewish homeland is rooted in a tragic history that cannot be denied.

Around the world, the Jewish people were persecuted for centuries, and anti-Semitism in Europe culminated in an unprecedented Holocaust. Tomorrow, I will visit Buchenwald, which was part of a network of camps where Jews were enslaved, tortured, shot and gassed to death by the Third Reich. Six million Jews were killed - more than the entire Jewish population of Israel today. Denying that fact is baseless, ignorant, and hateful. Threatening Israel with destruction - or repeating vile stereotypes about Jews - is deeply wrong, and only serves to evoke in the minds of Israelis this most painful of memories while preventing the peace that the people of this region deserve.


You notice that how he discusses Anti-Semitism, without mentioning the fact that the Muslim Middle East is the major supplier of Anti-Semitic fervor in the world.



Yes, it's ALWAYS a good idea to insult your host while you're trying to reach out to them to begin having a substantive relationship and a rational debate. Browbeating them has NEVER yielded negative results...

Quote:


Obama then goes on to talk about the 60+ years of Palestinian suffering, taking the Palestinian view that the very creation of Israel was bad. He mixes the "Christian" Palestinians with the Muslim ones, ignoring the horrible persecution of Palestinian Christians by their Muslim neighbors.



As Geezer would say, I suppose you have cites to back up any of this? No? I thought not.

Quote:

Obama also discusses Gaza as an occupied territory. Er..Mr. President maybe you didn't read the newspapers in August 2005, but Israel pulled out of Gaza almost four years ago. I know--I was in Jerusalem at the time.


Guess you must not have been there last summer, when they went back in, bombs and rockets blazing. Seems like it was in the papers.

Quote:


On the other hand, it is also undeniable that the Palestinian people - Muslims and Christians - have suffered in pursuit of a homeland. For more than sixty years they have endured the pain of dislocation. Many wait in refugee camps in the West Bank, Gaza, and neighboring lands for a life of peace and security that they have never been able to lead. They endure the daily humiliations - large and small - that come with occupation. So let there be no doubt: the situation for the Palestinian people is intolerable. America will not turn our backs on the legitimate Palestinian aspiration for dignity, opportunity, and a state of their own.



So what is it exactly that you find factually inaccurate here? Are you saying the Palestinians were NOT dislocated more than 60 years ago? Is your point that they AREN'T waiting in refugee camps? They DON'T endure humiliation?

Quote:


Obama also forgot to mention the role of Egypt and Jordan in making sure that the Palestinians stayed in camps and the fact that there were more Jews thrown out of Muslim countries in 1948 than Arabs leaving Israel. A mistake he repeats below:

For decades, there has been a stalemate: two peoples with legitimate aspirations, each with a painful history that makes compromise elusive. It is easy to point fingers - for Palestinians to point to the displacement brought by Israel's founding, and for Israelis to point to the constant hostility and attacks throughout its history from within its borders as well as beyond. But if we see this conflict only from one side or the other, then we will be blind to the truth: the only resolution is for the aspirations of both sides to be met through two states, where Israelis and Palestinians each live in peace and security.

Displacement? I am surprised he didn't use the word nabka (catastrophe) that's what the Muslims call it.



And he IS a Muslim, isn't he?

Quote:

Again accepting Muslim propaganda, the President doesn't make the point that the Arab Palestinian's weren't thrown out, the were told to leave by the Arab League states.


I'm sure it will come as a great comfort to a great many Iraqis that Saddam wasn't thrown out; he was invited to leave by the United States.

Quote:


That is in Israel's interest, Palestine's interest, America's interest, and the world's interest. That is why I intend to personally pursue this outcome with all the patience that the task requires. The obligations that the parties have agreed to under the Road Map are clear. For peace to come, it is time for them - and all of us - to live up to our responsibilities.

Palestinians must abandon violence. Resistance through violence and killing is wrong and does not succeed. For centuries, black people in America suffered the lash of the whip as slaves and the humiliation of segregation. But it was not violence that won full and equal rights. It was a peaceful and determined insistence upon the ideals at the center of America's founding. This same story can be told by people from South Africa to South Asia; from Eastern Europe to Indonesia. It's a story with a simple truth: that violence is a dead end. It is a sign of neither courage nor power to shoot rockets at sleeping children, or to blow up old women on a bus. That is not how moral authority is claimed; that is how it is surrendered.



Good lord! He IS a socialist! He MUST BE! How else could he say something so un-American as "violence is not the answer"?! What is WRONG with this guy? Someone should punch him right in the nose to show him that violence is ALWAYS the answer!

Quote:


Violence? You mean Terrorism? No because in the next few lines he reaches out to HAMAS:

Now is the time for Palestinians to focus on what they can build. The Palestinian Authority must develop its capacity to govern, with institutions that serve the needs of its people. Hamas does have support among some Palestinians, but they also have responsibilities. To play a role in fulfilling Palestinian aspirations, and to unify the Palestinian people, Hamas must put an end to violence, recognize past agreements, and recognize Israel's right to exist.



Yup, reaching out to a legitimately-elected government in an effort to bring them into the conversation is NOT good diplomacy. It has NEVER worked. And remember, we do not negotiate with terrorists. Or much of anybody else. Unless we want to. Or they want to. Or someone wants to. Or if there's profit in it for us, free-market Ferengi that we are.

Quote:


He makes Hamas seem like naughty children, "OK Hamas stop hitting your brother." Here again what Obama doesn't say is just as bad as what he says, "recognize Israel's right to exist." The words he missed is ..as a Jewish state. Neither Hamas or the supposedly moderate Fatah recognize Israel as a Jewish State, they both call for flooding the country with millions of Muslims to ensure that Israel becomes another Muslim country:

At the same time, Israelis must acknowledge that just as Israel's right to exist cannot be denied, neither can Palestine's. The United States does not accept the legitimacy of continued Israeli settlements. This construction violates previous agreements and undermines efforts to achieve peace. It is time for these settlements to stop.



YESSSSS!!!! It's about fucking TIME somebody from here said it out loud!

Quote:


We have discussed this Ad nauseam during the past few days, by saying this, not only is Obama throwing Israel to the international wolves, but he is ignoring agreements that previous administrations made with Israel about natural growth of existing settlements.

Israel must also live up to its obligations to ensure that Palestinians can live, and work, and develop their society. And just as it devastates Palestinian families, the continuing humanitarian crisis in Gaza does not serve Israel's security; neither does the continuing lack of opportunity in the West Bank. Progress in the daily lives of the Palestinian people must be part of a road to peace, and Israel must take concrete steps to enable such progress.

This was one of Bibi Netanyahu's campaign promises, but not as an obligation as a way to peace. This is not Israel's obligation, this is the obligation of Egypt and Jordan who created the problem.



Yes, how dare Obama try to use Netanyahu's words in such a way as to suggest that maybe Israel might, for once, keep its word and actually HELP its neighbor whom it occupies and kills with impunity.

Quote:


His discussion of the "humanitarian crisis" was a bit disingenuous. Maybe he should have mention why Israel closed the borders, and the fact that Hamas has been stealing many of the supplies heading to Gaza.

Finally, the Arab States must recognize that the Arab Peace Initiative was an important beginning, but not the end of their responsibilities. The Arab-Israeli conflict should no longer be used to distract the people of Arab nations from other problems. Instead, it must be a cause for action to help the Palestinian people develop the institutions that will sustain their state; to recognize Israel's legitimacy; and to choose progress over a self-defeating focus on the past.



Wait - when Obama says he might look into charges against Americans who tried to legalize and legitimize torture, he was supposed to NOT look at the past, and should just move on. Now he's being scolded by this two-bit hack blogger (I won't even call this schmuck a writer, because he clearly hasn't earned the title) for saying that all involved shouldn't look to the past. So is he supposed to look to the past and focus on that, or not?

Quote:


Again he doesn't call for the recognition of Israel as a Jewish state. Now he calls for the internationalization of Israel's capital Jerusalem:



Do you call for recognition of America as a Christian state? Are you FOR theocracies, unless they're Muslim theocracies? I'm confused as to your stance.

Quote:


America will align our policies with those who pursue peace, and say in public what we say in private to Israelis and Palestinians and Arabs. We cannot impose peace. But privately, many Muslims recognize that Israel will not go away. Likewise, many Israelis recognize the need for a Palestinian state. It is time for us to act on what everyone knows to be true.



Blasphemer! How dare he!

Quote:


Too many tears have flowed. Too much blood has been shed. All of us have a responsibility to work for the day when the mothers of Israelis and Palestinians can see their children grow up without fear; when the Holy Land of three great faiths is the place of peace that God intended it to be; when Jerusalem is a secure and lasting home for Jews and Christians and Muslims, and a place for all of the children of Abraham to mingle peacefully together as in the story of Isra, when Moses, Jesus, and Mohammed (peace be upon them) joined in prayer.



Yeah, that's really just going WAY too far. I can't believe that anyone with an ounce of humanity would call for something as ridiculous as "peace".

Quote:


During the campaign, I warned all lovers of Israel, that Barack Obama would abandon the state of Israel, today he foreshadowed that abandonment to the Muslim world.



Really? I don't see it. I see him calling for Israel and Palestine to co-exist in peace. Is that your definition of abandonment? Weird.

http://yidwithlid.blogspot.com/2009/06/obamas-cairo-speech-threw-israe
l-under.html


Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.


"You're a idiot." -AuRaptor, RWED, May 27, 2009.

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Thursday, June 4, 2009 3:52 PM

GINOBIFFARONI


Israel has been a prime obstacle to peace for years, not only in their own varied conflicts but they also stuck their noses into other problems in order to make cash to finance their own misdeeds.

Supplying arms and training to both sides of the Sri Lanka civil war ( at the same time ) being one example.

Any peace, will need to take into consideration of the ethnic cleansing etc in Israels history. Recognition and acknowledgment is a great start.


It is kinda refreshing to hear an American ( particularly an American leader ) admit mistake have and are being made.

Obama is likely on borrowed time now, sadly



" They don't hate America, they hate Americans " Homer Simpson


Lets party like its 1939

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Thursday, June 4, 2009 5:24 PM

SKYWALKEN


As a card-carrying proud Zionist I want to thank all the people posting anti-Israel comments. We need to be reminded every once and a while that Nazism still lives and that it primarily lives on the left of the political spectrum.


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Thursday, June 4, 2009 6:36 PM

BYTEMITE


Hi strawman, it's nice to meet you.

Of course, since you're just going to be outraged, make baseless accusations, demonize any opposing viewpoint, and not really listen to anything I have to say, I can see there's no reason for my saying anything else.

But I hope you realize that you're only promoting viewpoints and international policy that will just end up with MORE Jewish people being killed.

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Thursday, June 4, 2009 6:56 PM

AGENTROUKA


Where do people get this thing from that criticising Israel is the exact same thing as anti-semitism?

Israel is a country, a political entity, that happens to be closely affiliated with Judaism. It's entirely possible to critisize this political entity's actions without a shred of blind hatred for Jewish people being involved.

Invoking the Nazi/anti-semitism card is just cowardly.

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Thursday, June 4, 2009 7:07 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Oh neat, a real Zionista, just wait till PN spots that, that'll be fun.

Bet your real proud of your proud Irgun forefathers and their brave practices of murdering women and children too.

The irony of a damn Irgun-Herut-Likud-Zionista punk calling anyone ELSE a terrorist is not at all lost on me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun

-F

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Thursday, June 4, 2009 7:44 PM

GINOBIFFARONI


I have opinions here, but a open mind,

yet nobody is even trying to change it here...


Funny how Israel supporters try to run on only emotion, not fact... they seem to try to avoid fact


come on Skywalken...

at least Rap would have at least tried



( not with facts, but he would have tried )






" They don't hate America, they hate Americans " Homer Simpson


Lets party like its 1939

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Friday, June 5, 2009 1:47 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Skywalken:
As a card-carrying proud Zionist I want to thank all the people posting anti-Israel comments. We need to be reminded every once and a while that Nazism still lives and that primarily lives on the left of the political spectrum.



Oh, goodie - now I'm a Nazi!

SkyNazi, a person CAN criticize Israel's actions without becoming a Nazi. Just look at the Israelis themselves - about half of them at any given time are unhappy with the actions of their government. Does that make them Nazis? Is that how you'd refer to them?

By your own logic, you have now proven yourself to be a card-carrying KKK member. After all, your blind hatred of a black President reminds us all that racism lives and that it lives primarily on the right side of the political spectrum.

Hey, if anyone has a problem with that, take it up with SkyNazi. I'm just playing by the rules he laid out...

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.


"You're a idiot." -AuRaptor, RWED, May 27, 2009.

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Friday, June 5, 2009 1:55 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)






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Friday, June 5, 2009 6:24 AM

GINOBIFFARONI


More Reaction

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/americas/2009/06/200964195726442565.
html



News Americas
US reaction split on Obama speech
By Rob Reynolds, senior Washington correspondent


In Barack Obama's highly anticipated speech in Cairo, there was something that struck me as distinctively American: His call for the peoples of the Middle East to put aside or quickly resolve decades and even centuries-old conflicts.

"Whatever we think of the past, we must not be prisoners of it," the US president said on Thursday.

Easier said then done, of course. The notion of "turning the page" comes easily to many Americans, but is odd and unsettling to cultures still living with the results of historic wrongs.

Another thing struck me as distinctly political: Obama's constant references to his Muslim background, boyhood days in Indonesia, and frequent citations from the Quran sounded a bit odd coming from a man who made strenuous efforts to ignore those aspects of his autobiography in the 2008 campaign for the White House.

In fact, Obama's campaign attacked critics who insisted on using his middle name; now, here was Barack Hussein Obama on stage in Cairo dropping a "shukran" (Arabic for "thank you" here) and an "assalaamu alaikum" (peace be unto you) there.

Republican 'chorus'

Nancy Pelosi praised Obama's speech as a
'great triumph' [GALLO/GETTY]
Back in the US, there is an unwritten rule that politicians do not criticise the president when he is travelling abroad.

However that did not stop Obama's opponents. Dan Burton, a Republican congressman, blasted him on Iran and Israel, saying: "When he talks about Iran, it doesn't make any sense right now, there's no way to guarantee that Iran isn't developing a nuclear weapons programme and I believe they are, and Israel is threatened severely."

Joining the Republican chorus was Elizabeth Cheney, a former Bush administration state department official and daughter of the former vice-president, Dick Cheney.

Her comments seemed intended to defend her father from criticism of his actions on waterboarding and selective use of intelligence in the run-up to the invasion of Iraq.

"I, as an American, find it troubling to hear an American president on foreign soil say our reaction to 9/11 was something that betrayed our ideals," she told MSNBC news on Thursday.

Fellow Democrats, meanwhile, praised Obama, with Nancy Pelosi, speaker of the house of representatives, calling the speech "a great triumph".


"There is indeed a tumultuous history between us," Obama said, stating the obvious.

He went on: "In the middle of the Cold War, the United States played a role in the overthrow of a democratically elected Iranian government."

Of course, every Iranian schoolchild knows how the CIA orchestrated (not "played a role") in the coup that topped Mohammed Mossadegh, the then prime minister, in August 1953, but you would be hard pressed to find one American in 1,000 who has ever heard of it.

But on the Fox News network, that reference to the coup was seen as craven grovelling.

Jonah Goldberg, a conservative author and Fox contributor, said Obama's "constant apologising" was Obama's way to "advance his own cult of personality".

And Gretchen Carlson, a Fox anchorwoman, said in astonishment: "He apologised for the US role in Iran!"

Afghan escalation

In depth
One of the most animated moments in Obama's speech came as he talked about his decision to escalate the war in Afghanistan.

"It is agonising for America to lose our young men and women," Obama said, admitting it is "politically difficult to continue this conflict".

However, he argued that the US must do so to avoid allowing Afghanistan to become a haven for al-Qaeda and other extremists.

And many Obama supporters on the left are deeply concerned that Obama's Afghanistan policy may end up as a quagmire sucking his presidency down to disaster, much as the war in Vietnam overshadowed the progressive achievements of Lyndon Johnson.

" They don't hate America, they hate Americans " Homer Simpson


Lets party like its 1939

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Friday, June 5, 2009 6:36 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:


Dan Burton, a Republican congressman, blasted him on Iran and Israel, saying: "When he talks about Iran, it doesn't make any sense right now, there's no way to guarantee that Iran isn't developing a nuclear weapons programme and I believe they are, and Israel is threatened severely."



He's right, of course. There IS no way to guarantee that. Invading Iran won't guarantee it. Bombing them won't guarantee it.

Israel is threatened severely? Really? How about Iran? Are they threatened severely by the fact that Israel already HAS nuclear weapons? Are they threatened severely by the fact that Israel essentially has the world's lone military superpower at its beck and call?

How is it that Israel is the only one threatened in the area? Haven't they been doing plenty of threatening of their own, backed up by harsh actions of a quasi-genocidal nature?



Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.


"You're a idiot." -AuRaptor, RWED, May 27, 2009.

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Friday, June 5, 2009 7:01 AM

RIPWASH


Now, I'll need some educatin' because I only hear one side of things some times, ya know.

I don't recall hearing about Isreal (any leader of Isreal, that is) ranting about wanting to wipe Iran of the map/face of the earth. Am I wrong? This comes down to a country (through it's leader) that has some restraint vs. a country with a nutjob for a leader who makes such claims. Really. If Isreal wanted to wipe them off the face of the planet, they probably would have done so by now. Donthcathink?



*********************************************
"It's okay! I'm a leaf on the wind!!!"
"What does that mean?!?!?!"

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Friday, June 5, 2009 7:13 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Skywalken:
As a card-carrying proud Zionist

You're from Zion? The last human city deep underground near the Earth's core where it's still warm?
Shirley you jest.
As a card-carrying Matrix agent I find that highly unlikely.


The laughing Chrisisall

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Friday, June 5, 2009 7:29 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by RIPWash:
Now, I'll need some educatin' because I only hear one side of things some times, ya know.

I don't recall hearing about Isreal (any leader of Isreal, that is) ranting about wanting to wipe Iran of the map/face of the earth. Am I wrong? This comes down to a country (through it's leader) that has some restraint vs. a country with a nutjob for a leader who makes such claims. Really. If Isreal wanted to wipe them off the face of the planet, they probably would have done so by now. Donthcathink?



*********************************************
"It's okay! I'm a leaf on the wind!!!"
"What does that mean?!?!?!"



Ripper, if you heard that about Iran, you heard wrong. Look it up, paying particular attention to the translation.

Looks like once again you've fallen victim to the hard right's "approved news sources", and only heard what they wanted you to hear. I heard that, too, and did some checking. It might astonish you if you were to look into it.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.


"You're a idiot." -AuRaptor, RWED, May 27, 2009.

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Friday, June 5, 2009 8:26 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Be nice Mikey - the fact that he's askin for clarification means he's holding an open mind about it.

RIP, much of the translation of middle eastern media comes from MEMRI, which is more or less an outright propaganda arm of Israel, wholly owned by folks with an agenda, and has a history of "creative" translation bordering on outright lies.

What dinner-jacket actually SAID was something more on the nature of "Vanish from the pages of time", meaning fall and be forgotten, as many past empires both good and bad have done - and in context he was commenting on Israels taking of Palestinian land and referred to it as a stain of disgrace (the act) - which MEMRI deliberately mistranslated as meaning (the country committing the act) and even someone without knowledge of those languages, with a little research, can see that it was a deliberate distortion.

More to come in a moment...

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Friday, June 5, 2009 8:35 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Here's some stuff to Google, RIP, I pulled it out of previous posts, but it's enough to start with..
Quote:

I still say we need to cut em off, whatever it takes, AMDOCS, COMVERSE, The ZoneAlarm trickery, USS Liberty, the "Dancing Arabs", Urban Moving Systems, the "Art Students", AIPAC, The Lavon Incident, The false flag attack on the hotel in Kenya, Nov 2002, Adam Pearlman, Dov Zackheim and a lotta missin money, The Libya bait and switch that caused Reagan to bomb Quadaffis office, The King David Hotel, The high likelyhood that Entebbe was a false flag (raised by MI6), I mean hell folks, that's just the *documented* stuff, if you include events that cannot be substantially proven but most of the evidence points to em, this'd go six pages easy.


And while we're at it, lemme point out that they're also the largest source of the Ecstacy, aka E (MDMA) flooding our streets, something which the subversion of Law Enforcement attempts to shut the distribution networks down was accomplished by their connection with the subversion of the AMDOCS billing system, which is what brought it to light in the first place.

As such, the behavior of our so-called "allies" towards us is quite reprehensible, especially in light that they constitute 31% of our foreign aid budget, to the tune of almost seven million bucks a day.

I know I am harsh about this, but it's not zealotry as much as the natural reaction to watching our tax money shovelled by the bucketfull into the maw of a country who's "thanks" is often enough a knife in our back.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Friday, June 5, 2009 9:04 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


The wikipedia 'nuclear weapons and israel' page is pretty interesting, particularly this on israel's strategic position and military doctrine:

Quote:

Doctrine
Israel's nuclear doctrine is shaped by its lack of strategic depth: a subsonic fighter jet could cross in four minutes the 40 nautical miles (74 km) from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea. It additionally relies on a reservist-based military which magnifies civilian and military losses in its small population. Israel tries to compensate for these weaknesses by emphasising intelligence, manoeuverability and firepower.[109]

As a result, its strategy is based on the premise that it cannot afford to lose a single war, and thus must prevent them by maintaining deterrence, including the option of preemption. If these steps are insufficient, it seeks to prevent escalation and determine a quick and decisive war outside of its borders.[109]

Strategically, Israel's long-range missiles, nuclear capable aircraft, and possibly its submarines present an effective second strike deterrence against unconventional and conventional attack, and if Israel's defences fail and its population centres be threatened, the Samson Option, an all out attack against an adversary, would be employed. Its nuclear arsenal can also be used tactically.[109]

Although nuclear weapons are viewed as the ultimate guarantor of Israeli security, as early as the 1960s the country has avoided building its military around them, instead pursuing absolute conventional superiority so as to forestall a last resort nuclear engagement.[109]

According to historian Avner Cohen, Israel first articulated an official policy on the use of nuclear weapons in 1966, which revolved around four "red lines" that could lead to a nuclear response:[110]

1. A successful Arab military penetration into populated areas within Israel's post-1949 (pre-1967) borders.
2. The destruction of the Israeli Air Force.
3. The exposure of Israeli cities to massive and devastating air attacks or to possible chemical or biological attacks.
4. The use of nuclear weapons against Israeli territory.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapons_and_Israel

Heads should roll

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Friday, June 5, 2009 11:23 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Be nice Mikey - the fact that he's askin for clarification means he's holding an open mind about it.

RIP, much of the translation of middle eastern media comes from MEMRI, which is more or less an outright propaganda arm of Israel, wholly owned by folks with an agenda, and has a history of "creative" translation bordering on outright lies.



Sorry, Frem, and Sorry, Ripper, if I came across as hot-headed above. Surely not intended. I merely suggested looking it up because I tended to take it as told for several years, until I stumbled across something that disputed that, and looked into it further. Several sources outright refute the "quote" and strongly imply that it was deliberatly mis-translated in an effort to fan the flames.

Do I *like* Mahmoud I'mmawearmydinnerjacket? Not one whit. But as I need to keep pointing out, if we're going to cap someone or invade their country, can we at least be honest about our reasons why, and not stoop to just making shit up out of thin air as our "justification" for doing so?

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.


"You're a idiot." -AuRaptor, RWED, May 27, 2009.

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Friday, June 5, 2009 2:03 PM

GINOBIFFARONI


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Be nice Mikey - the fact that he's askin for clarification means he's holding an open mind about it.

RIP, much of the translation of middle eastern media comes from MEMRI, which is more or less an outright propaganda arm of Israel, wholly owned by folks with an agenda, and has a history of "creative" translation bordering on outright lies.

What dinner-jacket actually SAID was something more on the nature of "Vanish from the pages of time", meaning fall and be forgotten, as many past empires both good and bad have done - and in context he was commenting on Israels taking of Palestinian land and referred to it as a stain of disgrace (the act) - which MEMRI deliberately mistranslated as meaning (the country committing the act) and even someone without knowledge of those languages, with a little research, can see that it was a deliberate distortion.

More to come in a moment...

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it



My interpretation on what was meant by that particular speech was that he was challenging the legality of the foundation of Israel in the first place....

and really, looking at the UN's actions in those days, rules were bent if not broken at a whim.

Perhaps an accounting would be a good thing,

nice if the UN could learn from their history, wouldn't it...



" They don't hate America, they hate Americans " Homer Simpson


Lets party like its 1939

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Sunday, June 14, 2009 7:16 PM

SKYWALKEN


Is Barack Obama the new Hitler?

It's a question worth asking.


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Sunday, June 14, 2009 7:57 PM

SHINYGOODGUY


Oooooo, thems fighting words! :)

Tawabawho?

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Sunday, June 14, 2009 7:58 PM

SHINYGOODGUY


You're one president off there Skyperson.

Tawabawho?

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Sunday, June 14, 2009 8:32 PM

GINOBIFFARONI


Quote:

Originally posted by Skywalken:
Is Barack Obama the new Hitler?

It's a question worth asking.




Americans as Nazis...

old news man, been heading that way for years


but if Obama is the new Hitler...

I suppose that would make Bush - Paul von Hindenburg

if Paul von Hindenburg snorted coke and ducked out of fighting in WW1...






" They don't hate America, they hate Americans " Homer Simpson


Lets party like its 1939

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Monday, June 15, 2009 10:35 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


How about this...

We stop supporting Israel. At least with government money. Private donations are ok...

That would solve a LOT of problems right there.


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Monday, June 15, 2009 10:46 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
How about this...

We stop supporting Israel. At least with government money. Private donations are ok...

That would solve a LOT of problems right there.




Seconded.

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Monday, June 15, 2009 11:13 AM

GINOBIFFARONI


Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
How about this...

We stop supporting Israel. At least with government money. Private donations are ok...

That would solve a LOT of problems right there.




If private donations are okay there, then the ban on people donating to others like Hezbollah should also be lifted.

Choice should be in the hands of the people, or second best no choice at all and ban all money going to the region.



" They don't hate America, they hate Americans " Homer Simpson


Lets party like its 1939

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Monday, June 15, 2009 12:33 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
How about this...

We stop supporting Israel. At least with government money. Private donations are ok...

That would solve a LOT of problems right there.




If private donations are okay there, then the ban on people donating to others like Hezbollah should also be lifted.

Choice should be in the hands of the people, or second best no choice at all and ban all money going to the region.



" They don't hate America, they hate Americans " Homer Simpson


Lets party like its 1939



Good point(s).

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.



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Monday, June 15, 2009 2:42 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Oh yes.

One of the reasons I have to use such an indirect, roundabout manner to support RAWA is in case the state dept ever decides to declare them terrorists, a strong possibility which they just might do as a sop to the dickheads we're propping up over there, and having a charitable org you've been donating to suddenly get listed as terrorists can have bad, BAD consequences for you, as some freakin college professors (Bayoumi, Haddad) down the road here learned the hard way.

Just remember folks, that charitable donation can come back to bite you, HARD, and the powers that be are keepin track of em all.

So remember it.

-Frem
http://www.rawa.org/index.php

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Tuesday, June 16, 2009 7:41 PM

GINOBIFFARONI


http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,630690,00.html

BYPASSING THE ROAD MAP ROAD BLOCK
How Long Can Israel Resist US Pressure?

By Christoph Schult, Gerhard Spörl and Gabor Steingart

As US President Barack Obama presses ahead with his Middle East peace intiatives, America's new tone and new modesty are going down well in the region. Even Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is finding it hard to resist the pressure to compromise on the Palestinian question.

Whenever anyone calls his resourcefulness in difficult situations into question, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu likes to recount an episode from his younger days. He was in his early twenties and was serving in the Israeli Defense Force's elite special forces unit Sayeret Matkal, which had been chosen to gather intelligence behind enemy lines and had a tough-as-nails reputation.

Netanyahu was leading a group of soldiers up a mountain when they suddenly found their path blocked by a giant boulder. With the side of the mountain to the left and a precipice to the right, the group's only real option was to turn around and abort the mission.

But, as Netanyahu likes to relate, he knew just what to do. Using shrubs that were growing out of the cliff, he made his way hand-over-hand around the obstacle, dangling over the abyss, and reached the path on the other side of the boulder.

Forty years later, Netanyahu is being called upon to use his imagination once again. This time, the challenges involve defusing the conflicts in the Middle East and the question of how Israel's relationship with its protective power, the United States, will develop under President Barack Obama. The president has asked him, in no uncertain terms, to accept the possibility of the establishment of a Palestinian state, as his predecessors did.

But solving this problem isn't as easy for Benjamin Netanyahu, who goes by the nickname Bibi, as it was to circumvent the boulder in his path when he was in his early twenties: The majority in his right-wing coalition government and in his own party rejects what Obama is asking him to do.

In a keynote speech on Sunday, the prime minister sought to lay out his plans to address the Palestinian question. He said he was willing to accept the establishment of a Palestinian state -- but set such strict pre-conditions, including the demand that such a state is demilitarized, that there is little chance of an agreement working. He also rejected Obama's calls for a complete halt to settlement building in the West Bank and ruled out giving East Jerusalem to the Palestinians as their capital.

Netanyahu has often talked about his vision of a peace with the Palestinians: economic development in the West Bank, which is controlled by the moderate Fatah movement under President Mahmoud Abbas, expansion of the settlements and no cooperation with radical Hamas in the Gaza Strip. He has also repeatedly described Iran as an existential threat to Israel, as well as to the region and the West.

Breaking the Cycle of Violence

Although the United States is very familiar with Netanyahu's position, the White House does not agree with it. Obama is not satisfied with the status quo, but instead wants to change it by defusing the conflicts. For this reason, Netanyahu will hardly be able to resist showing at least a modicum of accommodation in the long term, which includes recognizing the so-called road map for peace as a guideline for Middle East policy.

The road map is a graduated plan that includes obligations for both the Palestinians and the Israelis, the goal being to break through the fatal cycle of crisis and war, intifada uprisings, suicide bombings and military operations. At its core, the plan is about renouncing violence, and its ultimate goal is the recognition of the two-state solution by both sides.

The American president is pursuing the plan, which is not without risk. The Middle East has proved time and again to be a difficult region for ambitious reformers. In the years since the 1993 Oslo framework agreement, there have been several new beginnings, but all were destined to fail. And, often enough, disappointment over breakdowns in negotiations has exploded into new violence -- something former Presidents Bill Clinton and George W. Bush both experienced for themselves.

And this time?

Obama set the tone in his landmark Cairo speech. Now the execution is up to Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and Obama's special envoy to the Middle East, George Mitchell.

Netanyahu initially refused to toe the Obama line, straining relations between Israel and the United States. "There were understandings on the settlement issue, but you deceived us and did not uphold them," Mitchell said with brutal directness. He was referring to Israel's international commitment not to build any new settlements in the West Bank. Netanyahu complained to close associates that Mitchell's accusation and unexpected tone were "unfair."

President Obama is picking up the pace, hoping to score a success in the Middle East -- other international conflicts, such as those in Pakistan and Afghanistan, will be even more difficult to resolve and are likely to last longer. Mitchell traveled first to Jerusalem, and then to Damascus and Beirut to sound out the key players' willingness to make concessions.

New opportunities are emerging in Damascus, where Syrian President Bashar Assad is eager to shed his status as a pariah in the region, ostracized in the West and dependent on Iran, which is seeking regional hegemony. Negotiations between Israel and Syria over the return of the Golan Heights, brokered by Turkey, had already progressed relatively far, but talks stalled when the war in Gaza erupted.

And now there is new movement in the Middle East, as the effects of Obama's Cairo speech to the Islamic world begin to be felt. In Lebanon's elections, the majority did not vote for the alliance of Shiites and Christians dominated by Hezbollah extremists, as had been expected. Instead, the pro-Western alliance led by Saad Hariri, the son of assassinated former Prime Minister Rafiq Hariri, won the election.

For now, virulent anti-Americanism no longer appears to be a reliable factor in the Middle East -- a consequence of the Cairo speech, with its emphasis on mutual respect and its offer to approach conflicts in a different way.

" They don't hate America, they hate Americans " Homer Simpson


Lets party like its 1939

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Tuesday, June 16, 2009 10:30 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

How Long Can Israel Resist US Pressure?

Answer - not very bloody long, if we cut off the damn floodgates of money.

Like any other parasite, when the host cuts em off, they're screwed.

Didja know we have a goddamn treaty with em to provide em with oil even if it means we go without ?
Which, being a treaty, mind you, carries Constitutional Force behind it - not that it seems to matter since we've broken so many already - that's one more I wouldn't *MIND* us breakin.

Fuck em, it's long past time they got off our goddamn tit and learned how to deal with the rest of the world without us propping them up financially, militarily, and tradewise - see how well their economy does when everyone they screwed won't buy from them, neh ?

I do think it's amusing they thought they could use Rahm to put the arm on Obama, and Obama's using Rahm to put the arm on THEM, political judo, that, and a neat turn of it.

-F

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Wednesday, June 17, 2009 6:21 AM

GINOBIFFARONI


It seems a step, but will Obama push hard enought. Or will Netanyahu's supposed compromise screw the works.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2009/06/20096152028482619
45.html


" "But, friends, we must state the whole truth here. The truth is that in the area of our homeland, in the heart of our Jewish homeland, now lives a large population of Palestinians," Netanyahu said.

In other words, the presence of Palestinians in their lands is portrayed as an accident of history – thus annulling in one speech their history and stripping them of their legal, let alone their national, rights. "

Jimmy Carter is rather involved here, and may be alot more effective than Hillary Clinton in this situation

" He said the Palestinians had been treated "like animals" and the deprivations faced by them in Gaza were unique in history.

Carter said he was trying to persuade Hamas leaders to accept the international community's conditions for ending its boycott of the movemen "

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2009/06/20096161303857168
4.html







" They don't hate America, they hate Americans " Homer Simpson


Lets party like its 1939

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