REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Personally, I've got a lot of respect for the guy

POSTED BY: 6IXSTRINGJACK
UPDATED: Friday, June 26, 2009 02:33
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Saturday, June 20, 2009 4:12 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


"one of the most mysterious leaders in the world" ~

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/09/09/nkorea.kim/

He's under no illusion that there are 72 virgins awaiting him in the afterlife. For all we know, he's an atheist, which should make about 40% of the people in this forum like him even more for it if it were true.

I don't see why they can't have the technology. In fact, I can't figure out the entirety of the clusterfuck of a situation there and why, if we really had interest in stopping it why haven't we done it 20 years ago or more?

He's not going to use it. At best, on Independence Day, he will send a missile that falls at least 500 miles short of Hawaii and it will NOT have a nuclear warhead.

It's just KJ's big FUCK YOU to Obama and the U.S., but it serves the dual purpose of letting Russia and China know that they can easily lob a few bombs their way if they get out of check.

Personally, somebody that was as far away from us as he is and likely as secular as Saddam was.... well let's just say that I'd make life easier in both north and south Korea and have me a powerfull ally over there. Just another checks and balances....

I tip my hat to the guy. Both North Koreans and South Koreans have life 100 times harder than anyone here in the states got it.

It's easy for Obama to look like a saint when he can create Trillions of dollars out of thin air to fund welfare programs while maintaining the most powerful military in the world. I want to see him do it on Kim Jong's budget.

Let him have the missiles and the nukes, I say. I'm not worried in the slightest that he'd do something as suicidal as lob a nuke at Hawii. He's not in the market of starting WWIII.

Relax, and enjoy your July 4th. If your county is too broke to throw a good show, drive out to one that will have a good one. Your kids will love you for it.

Happy Independence Day
6

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Saturday, June 20, 2009 6:50 AM

BYTEMITE


I think people are more worried about Japan than they are about him hitting us.

I think that in the past we've let ourselves get scared over other countries getting nukes, been worried over whether two enemy countries were going to annihilate each other, and stuck our noses in it when nothing has happened. I think in these cases that there's a lot of truth to the idea that the countries don't really want to USE nukes, they just want the bargaining power a nuke can give them.

But I don't necessarily think we can be cavalier about one country lobbing nukes into another. Personally, I wish we'd never invented them - we have explosives now, after all, that exceed nukes in explosive capability. But since the reality is that they're real and we have them, I think that the international community has formed resolutions about nukes for a good reason. The question is how to enforce it without getting blown up.

I think lots of people would like to disarm, but that's unlikely to happen. I think that America would have to be the one to get rid of the nukes first, but we have this worry that if we get rid of the nukes, then we're going to GET nuked. Not true, because we do have a half-decent military, but no one's sensible when it comes to this.

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Monday, June 22, 2009 2:48 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


They won't hit Japan either.

He's not looking to create an international nuke fest. He just wants a seat at the big boys table.



Seriously... this post only had 1 reply in 3 days?

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Monday, June 22, 2009 3:29 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Seriously... this post only had 1 reply in 3 days?



When you state you have a lot of respect for Kim Jung Il, that pretty much precludes any rational discussion.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Monday, June 22, 2009 3:34 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Why....?

What do you know about him other than what a worldwide media biased against him has to say about him?

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Monday, June 22, 2009 4:06 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Why....?

What do you know about him other than what a worldwide media biased against him has to say about him?



Oh yeah, the worldwide media plot against poor Kim. I believe this may be the reason no one wanted to join the discussion.

Anyway.

Would you believe Doctors Without Borders(Médecins Sans Frontières)?

Quote:


MSF began to understand that the North Korean government categorises its population according to perceived loyalty and usefulness to the regime, and those deemed hostile or useless were expendable. In fact, in 1996, Kim Jong-il publicly declared that only 30% of the population needed to survive to reconstruct a victorious society. With no possibility of directing aid to those most in need, MSF withdrew.


http://www.msf.org/msfinternational/invoke.cfm?objectid=335007FE-29B7-
4E69-B88BBDF0379FFE1A&component=toolkit.article&method=full_html&CFID=9710811&CFTOKEN=83205964


That's about all I need to know.




"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Monday, June 22, 2009 4:25 AM

WASHNWEAR


Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Why....?

What do you know about him other than what a worldwide media biased against him has to say about him?



Questions of the Il-Man's sanity or lack thereof aside, I think folks are not so much worried about a nuclear attack per se, but by the possibility of nukes and nuke byproducts getting sold to and/or thieved by some real loose-cannon terrorist types.

How's that for analysis, CNN?



donttalkbackjustdrivethecarshutyourmouthiknowwhatyouaredontsaynothinkeepyourhandsonthewheeldontturnaroundthisisforreal

Still...what would Rorschach do?

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Monday, June 22, 2009 5:09 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


I'll give you that W&W

There defiantly are people who I wouldn't want nukes in their hands.

I don't think KJ wants that either. I believe he wants a legitimate place at the big boy's table. Selling to the highest bidder would just ensure he would enter another war he couldn't win.

All PC bullshit aside that would ensure we couldn't win a war on NK's terms, we could wipe KJ off the map if he warranted it and the whole island while we're at it.

I personally like an enemy that thinks in a secularist, self preservational way to the unknown of the mindless self-destruction coming otherwise. Few more nukes where we need them, and quick, I say.

With all the magic money printing Obama's been doing, can't we print enough to make Korea so lucrative and productive that they don't need to fight anymore and they can house strategic weapons and be friends with us?

If AIG and GM deserve it, I think Korea deserves it...



"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Monday, June 22, 2009 5:17 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


I'm not saying the media against KJ is unwarranted. I'm just saying I don't know any more truth than you do. Why believe it's any more than 50/50 that you are being told the truth?

At the very worst, there are less dollars spent watching everything you do because they're spent on this frivolous invasion of other countries.

Of all the worries we have in the world today, KJ and the Koreans are below Swine Flu on my list of things that will kill me.

When you're a smoker and you know how you're going to die, reality takes a different turn.

Sure.. I could be killed by a meteor instead, but that's life, ain't it?

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Monday, June 22, 2009 5:25 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Yeah... 3 posts in a row....


Let's get some of that ObamaCash working in North and South Korea now.

Let's get them building our Green cars. Everyone's got a job. Everyone has a purpose. More money imported in the country for the exports they make.

With the small amount of people in Korea compared to America, it would be much easier to fix that country and the individual happiness factor than it ever would here.

Even if you raised their quality of living by 50% it would still be a far cry from where we are and they'd love it while we bitched about how shitty our jobs were.

When we give Trillions of dollars to the banks and we can't give Korea enough to want to help us in an unknown future, I can't respect any decision our Masters make.

I have no confidence in any of our leaders.

I don't even advocate supporting Korea's economy because it's 100% against everything I believe, but since my taxes and everyone's grandchildren's taxes are funding the fucks that put us in the second great depression (which is FAR from over), I figure, why can't we do this REALLY LITTLE THING?

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Monday, June 22, 2009 5:29 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:


All PC bullshit aside that would ensure we couldn't win a war on NK's terms, we could wipe KJ off the map if he warranted it and the whole island while we're at it.



You lost me. What "island" are you referring to?

And no, I *don't* have a lot of respect for KJI. I have some *understanding* of what he's doing, and why, but that doesn't mean I respect him for it. Hell, Bush thought he was on a mission from God, but that didn't make me respect him for it.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.



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Monday, June 22, 2009 5:47 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


What is his reason? Is KJ on a mission from God?

I live on my own island man. My apartment is my island that I have to leave to go to work.

I know there are people here that wish Texas was an island.




I am a Rock... I am and Island....

and a Rock feels no pain....

and an island never cries....

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Monday, June 22, 2009 11:44 AM

WASHNWEAR


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
I think people are more worried about Japan than they are about him hitting us.

I think that in the past we've let ourselves get scared over other countries getting nukes, been worried over whether two enemy countries were going to annihilate each other, and stuck our noses in it when nothing has happened. I think in these cases that there's a lot of truth to the idea that the countries don't really want to USE nukes, they just want the bargaining power a nuke can give them.

But I don't necessarily think we can be cavalier about one country lobbing nukes into another. Personally, I wish we'd never invented them - we have explosives now, after all, that exceed nukes in explosive capability. But since the reality is that they're real and we have them, I think that the international community has formed resolutions about nukes for a good reason. The question is how to enforce it without getting blown up.

I think lots of people would like to disarm, but that's unlikely to happen. I think that America would have to be the one to get rid of the nukes first, but we have this worry that if we get rid of the nukes, then we're going to GET nuked. Not true, because we do have a half-decent military, but no one's sensible when it comes to this.



Say, ByteMite - if he hasn't already, get Frem to share with you his view on weaponizing the atom. I could paraphrase what I remember him posting a couple of years ago, but it's one of those "best from the horse's mouth" type things.



donttalkbackjustdrivethecarshutyourmouthiknowwhatyouaredontsaynothinkeepyourhandsonthewheeldontturnaroundthisisforreal

Still...what would Rorschach do?

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Monday, June 22, 2009 1:25 PM

FREMDFIRMA


You mean the religious objection ?
Quote:

Disclaimer: I have a *religious* objection to nuclear weapons as a whole, it's one thing to steal the fire of the gods to power our cities, which does indeed come with it's own dangerous consequences - but to me the ultimate act of blasphemy and desecration to use such a thing as a weapon against each other.


Or do you mean other stuff from that thread ?
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=38457

-F

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Monday, June 22, 2009 1:42 PM

WASHNWEAR


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
You mean the religious objection ?
Quote:

Disclaimer: I have a *religious* objection to nuclear weapons as a whole, it's one thing to steal the fire of the gods to power our cities, which does indeed come with it's own dangerous consequences - but to me the ultimate act of blasphemy and desecration to use such a thing as a weapon against each other.




The post I'm thinking of has to be at least 2 years old, but your quote above sums it up pretty well, as I recall. Didn't know about the other thread - thanks.

ETA: BTW, I agree with your sentiment. But ya gotta admit, it's classic human behavior. "Hey, this is cool - I wonder if we can fuck some people up with it!"



donttalkbackjustdrivethecarshutyourmouthiknowwhatyouaredontsaynothinkeepyourhandsonthewheeldontturnaroundthisisforreal

Still...what would Rorschach do?

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Monday, June 22, 2009 5:08 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Oh yes, almost inevitably followed by "hey y'all, watch THIS!"...

Thankfully we were collectively smart enough to stop testing bigger and bigger bombs before we blew a hole in a freakin continental plate.

-F

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Thursday, June 25, 2009 3:31 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Oh yes, almost inevitably followed by "hey y'all, watch THIS!"...

Thankfully we were collectively smart enough to stop testing bigger and bigger bombs before we blew a hole in a freakin continental plate.

-F



Heh.... You must be joking, right Frem?

Science = Power - Knowledge

I'm utterly convinced that we will end the planet with robots or bombs or some new cool thing that hasn't been made into a Hollywood flick warning us of what could happen when we let science run amok without knowledge behind it.

Curiosity killed the cat, and in this instance the cat is 6.5 billion people.

Good riddance, I say. Give it back to the animals. They know how to live in equilibrium with nature.

Your biggest carbon footprint is your kids.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Thursday, June 25, 2009 4:18 AM

BYTEMITE


I don't know, considering we were screwing up the world and killing each other long before science came along, I'm not so sure you can blame science completely.

However, do we need ethics and common sense? Oh very yes. When science began to increase people's lifespan well into their 80s and infant mortality rates dropped to between 5% and 10%, we probably should have started trying to plan for the future.

Now we're just out of control, and our current lifestyle is not sustainable. Even if you don't believe in global warming, the chemical pollution from our industrial dumping has been enough to make people sick, let alone the havoc we're wrecking on the natural world.

The only ethical solution I can think of (and PN is going to jump on me for saying this) is space travel and colonization. Of course, I do think some people have OTHER ideas on how to decrease and limit the population. :/

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Thursday, June 25, 2009 4:38 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


I agree that the only way to keep the race going is space travel and colonization. I just wish I could back the purpose. I would hope that there were wiser races who could influence our ways and teach us to only take what we give.

Science has always been the same though. Hundreds of years before we were creating black holes in labs, the drunks going out back of the bar to have a pissing contest were performing a little experiment for a friendly wager and finding out just who could piss the furthest.

Nothing different between figuring out how to launch a fireball out of a catapult than the magnitude of the cause and effect.

Kinda my point actually..... Until science got this advanced, we didn't really need to worry about somebody fighting battles we want no part of to end up destroying us too.

Science = The stakes are MUCH higher....



"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Thursday, June 25, 2009 4:47 AM

BYTEMITE


Higher stakes, or requiring more responsibility?

I believe humanity CAN be responsible. I think that is the price of learning enough about the way things are that we become able to change them. And I think knowing about things and acting responsibly can enable positive change, not all negative.

We haven't been responsible in the past, but that doesn't preclude the possibility. I think humanity can wise up, and I think we're going to have to, and quick.

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Thursday, June 25, 2009 5:07 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


You're more positive about the situation than I am.

1984 has served as nothing more than the blueprint of the future rather than the warning that (I believe) it was written to be.

Same could be said for Terminator 2, Brazil, Minority Report (In the Mouth of Madness?)....

The problem with science is it Centralized power so effectively. In reality now, billions of people's futures are in the hands of less than a hundred people.

I'm just not a big fan of that ratio and not very optimistic of the future because of it.



"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Thursday, June 25, 2009 5:15 AM

BYTEMITE


I think that's more a fault of the system and the people who control it than the technology they use.

You know the saying. Guns don't kill people, people do.

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Thursday, June 25, 2009 5:23 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


I do know the saying, and I believe it totally.

It's different when only 100 people or so are allowed to control where the bullets fly though.

Careful about the OMan. He can point it wherever he wants but we're too busy being collectively David Copperfielded with the help of the media.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Thursday, June 25, 2009 5:32 AM

MIKEWILLIAMSON


Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:


It's just KJ's big FUCK YOU to Obama and the U.S., but it serves the dual purpose of letting Russia and China know that they can easily lob a few bombs their way if they get out of check.

I tip my hat to the guy.




Sure, I mean, what about all the GOOD things Hitler did?

FYI, Kim il Bob was working on this long before 0bama, or Bush for that matter.

You don't seem to be aware that the Korean War never ended. They have a CEASE FIRE, but they don't have a treaty. There are, last I heard, about half a million artillery pieces sighted in on Seoul, and NK can reduce it to crumbled rubble in about 15 minutes. There's a reason a large chunk of the US Army and USAF are along that DMZ (Incidentally, what IS Harry Truman's exit strategy for Korea? I've never heard a Dem complain about that, but I digress).

With a nuke, he can hit China or Japan, either of which would kill a lot of innocent people (Which is a BAD THING, just so we're on the same page), and he can use it as a bargaining chip against the South--just give him a few miles, and he'll get rid of them. Well, not really, but a few more, and...

You might recall we've played this game recently. Several times, AAMOF.

Or, he could sell the tech to anyone who'd do his dirty work. Team America may have been crass humor and fiction, but that doesn't make that scenario impossible.

I'm constantly amazed that the majority of the people not worried about Korea, Iran or Iraq are terrified of me having a rifle.

Now, moving on to the press, let me give you some first hand info on the press.

I've been to the Sandbox. I'm professionally qualified in several areas. I've seen the news happen, and then I've seen the coverage afterward.

BBC: Technically accurate, but they're not American, so their POV is different.

Rest of the British press: Accurate with what they say, but they often don't cover everything.

al Jazeera: Actually rather neutral on anything other than Palestine. Worth watching.

Fox: SLIGHTLY left wing as far as news goes. Ignore the talking heads completely; they're idiots.

CBS, ABC, NBC: Deceitful, dishonest and far to the left.

MSNBC: Whining morons.

CNN: Enemy @#$%ing propaganda.

You're welcome to disagree, not that I care. BT, DT, seen the news, know the score.

Recent novels by Michael Z. Williamson
CONTACT WITH CHAOS, Apr 09 from Baen Books
BETTER TO BEG FORGIVENESS..., Nov 07 from Baen Books
http://www.MichaelZWilliamson.com

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Thursday, June 25, 2009 6:58 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:


I'm utterly convinced that we will end the planet with robots or bombs or some new cool thing that hasn't been made into a Hollywood flick warning us of what could happen when we let science run amok without knowledge behind it.



Bullshit. I find it the height of arrogance to make statements like "we will end the planet". We're puny, and we haven't the power. We can't "end the planet". What we CAN do is so fuck it up that we can no longer live on it, but the planet itself could pretty much give two shits about that. As George Carlin said, it'll shake us off like a bad case of fleas, and continue on its happy merry...


Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.



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Thursday, June 25, 2009 7:02 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


BTW, 6ix, I also find it more than a little hypocritical that people will use computers and the internet to complain about the evils of science. You don't want the advances science has brought about? Fine. Please leave and go live in the woods, taking only what you can kill with your bare hands and your teeth.

And quit whinging and wishing for some wiser and superior race to come and show us how to live. That's a bullshit attitude. You want to live better? DO IT. Accept that at least for now, we're all we've got, and we're all stuck on this one little rock for the time being, and figure out how to make THAT a livable proposition. Or die and get the hell out of the way. The rest of us have work to do.

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Thursday, June 25, 2009 7:13 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:


I'm constantly amazed that the majority of the people not worried about Korea, Iran or Iraq are terrified of me having a rifle.




For the record, Mike, I'm *EXACTLY* as terrified of them having a rifle as I am of you having one. Which is to say, not one little bit. It's not the rifle, it's what the guy with the rifle DOES that makes the difference. People keep claiming that the very first thing anyone else will do if they get a nuke is USE IT. And in reality, there's only one nation on Earth that ever followed that pattern. The odds are actually AGAINST such a thing happening, if you look at it historically. The U.S., Russia, China, South Africa, India, Israel, Pakistan, England, and France are all known to have nukes. North Korea apparently does as well, and Iran soon will. Of all those, how many of them have ever used nuclear weapons against another nation in war? Pretty small minority, isn't it?

I'm not arguing whether it was better or necessary or expedient or cheaper to drop nukes on Japan. I'm just pointing out that WE are the only nation that's ever done it. As such, it's not exactly a ringing endorsement for the "moral high ground", is it?

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.



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Thursday, June 25, 2009 7:31 AM

MIKEWILLIAMSON


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:


For the record, Mike, I'm *EXACTLY* as terrified of them having a rifle as I am of you having one. Which is to say, not one little bit. It's not the rifle, it's what the guy with the rifle DOES that makes the difference. People keep claiming that the very first thing anyone else will do if they get a nuke is USE IT. And in reality, there's only one nation on Earth that ever followed that pattern. The odds are actually AGAINST such a thing happening, if you look at it historically. The U.S., Russia, China, South Africa, India, Israel, Pakistan, England, and France are all known to have nukes. North Korea apparently does as well, and Iran soon will. Of all those, how many of them have ever used nuclear weapons against another nation in war? Pretty small minority, isn't it?

I'm not arguing whether it was better or necessary or expedient or cheaper to drop nukes on Japan. I'm just pointing out that WE are the only nation that's ever done it. As such, it's not exactly a ringing endorsement for the "moral high ground", is it?

Mike




The obvious position is that we had no idea what the effects were, and haven't used them since, even though they would have made sense in Korea, Vietnam and Iraq.

The USSR was never going to use nukes on the US--it would be like burning their own fridge. They were just big boy pants. Without nukes, no one would ever have taken the USSR seriously as anything other than the third world $#!+hole it was.

China doesn't really have enough to worry about; they mostly wanted to keep Russia tied up.

India and Pakistan are mostly concerned with stopping China seizing water and land, and then want to have parity with each other.

The UK only needed them as a Cold War threat.

France never really needed them, but given their military history was never going to use them, either. It was a nationalism and science thing.

South Africa had them as a bargaining chip only--"Hey, UN. We'd like help with this native uprising/communist insurgency/etc, but if you won't help..." They had the very crudest, most reliable bombs they could build, and scrapped them when no longer needed.

Israel almost certainly helped SA develop theirs in exchange for uranium. SA had a LOT of Hebrew translators. Diamonds were strategic but not really military, so why? Duh. U235. Israel's outnumbered a million to one, and even Arabs can win battles with those odds.

Brazil, Canada, Japan, South Korea or Germany could have them any time they wanted. They don't need to. Sweden did all the development and then never fielded a bomb.

Iraq, Iran and Korea have no need of them against major threats--no superpower is allied with them, and no superpower wants them. They want them against each other, their neighbors, and to try to sit at the table.

If you think in terms of handguns, me and a Chinese officer and a Brit and a Russki sit at a table drinking and talking and playing cards, with our pistols on the table. We're all cool, no worries.

Here comes some gangbanger with his bling and his 9 and wants to sit in on the game with his crack pipe.

We're gonna say no, right?

Their game is outside, behind the dumpster, and the rest of us have a legitimate argument for them to stick to brass knucks and switchblades.

Recent novels by Michael Z. Williamson
CONTACT WITH CHAOS, Apr 09 from Baen Books
BETTER TO BEG FORGIVENESS..., Nov 07 from Baen Books
http://www.MichaelZWilliamson.com

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Thursday, June 25, 2009 7:34 AM

MIKEWILLIAMSON


BTW, India and Pakistan ARE going to major war over Kashmir within two decades. Both nations are running out of irrigation water for their crops. Guess where all the water is?

Recent novels by Michael Z. Williamson
CONTACT WITH CHAOS, Apr 09 from Baen Books
BETTER TO BEG FORGIVENESS..., Nov 07 from Baen Books
http://www.MichaelZWilliamson.com

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Thursday, June 25, 2009 7:38 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by MikeWilliamson:
BTW, India and Pakistan ARE going to major war over Kashmir within two decades. Both nations are running out of irrigation water for their crops. Guess where all the water is?

Recent novels by Michael Z. Williamson
CONTACT WITH CHAOS, Apr 09 from Baen Books
BETTER TO BEG FORGIVENESS..., Nov 07 from Baen Books
http://www.MichaelZWilliamson.com




I'd say you're nuts if you think it's going to take two decades. I'd give it ten years, MAX.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.



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Thursday, June 25, 2009 12:27 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:


I'm utterly convinced that we will end the planet with robots or bombs or some new cool thing that hasn't been made into a Hollywood flick warning us of what could happen when we let science run amok without knowledge behind it.



Bullshit. I find it the height of arrogance to make statements like "we will end the planet". We're puny, and we haven't the power. We can't "end the planet". What we CAN do is so fuck it up that we can no longer live on it, but the planet itself could pretty much give two shits about that. As George Carlin said, it'll shake us off like a bad case of fleas, and continue on its happy merry...


Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.






We will end human life on this planet. I said nothing about destroying the planet itself.... unless we do create a black hole that we can't control, then we'd destroy the planet.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Thursday, June 25, 2009 5:17 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:


I'm utterly convinced that we will end the planet with robots or bombs or some new cool thing that hasn't been made into a Hollywood flick warning us of what could happen when we let science run amok without knowledge behind it.



Bullshit. I find it the height of arrogance to make statements like "we will end the planet". We're puny, and we haven't the power. We can't "end the planet". What we CAN do is so fuck it up that we can no longer live on it, but the planet itself could pretty much give two shits about that. As George Carlin said, it'll shake us off like a bad case of fleas, and continue on its happy merry...


Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.






We will end human life on this planet. I said nothing about destroying the planet itself.... unless we do create a black hole that we can't control, then we'd destroy the planet.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack





Actually, what you SAID was "I'm utterly convinced that we will end the planet with robots or bombs or some new cool thing..." Look up above where I quoted your words, and you'll see that I'm right. So you DID say something about destroying the planet itself, even if you think you didn't. I can only go by what you write here, your words; I can no nothing of your intent except what you can clearly convey with your words.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.



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Friday, June 26, 2009 2:33 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Sure... my bad. Thanks for pointing out the error of my ways.

Short of the Black Hole scenario, animals or machines will live on beyond the human mistake.

Is it bad that for years I've thought of the bad guy on 12 Monkeys to be a pretty cool guy?

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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