REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

For the Left, war without Bush is not war at all

POSTED BY: SKYWALKEN
UPDATED: Thursday, August 20, 2009 03:47
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Wednesday, August 19, 2009 2:04 PM

SKYWALKEN


By Byron York

Quote:

Remember the anti-war movement? Not too long ago, the Democratic party's most loyal voters passionately opposed the war in Iraq. Democratic presidential candidates argued over who would withdraw American troops the quickest. Netroots activists regularly denounced President George W. Bush, and sometimes the U.S. military ("General Betray Us"). Cindy Sheehan, the woman whose soldier son was killed in Iraq, became a heroine when she led protests at Bush's Texas ranch.

That was then. Now, even though the United States still has roughly 130,000 troops in Iraq, and is quickly escalating the war in Afghanistan -- 68,000 troops there by the end of this year, and possibly more in 2010 -- anti-war voices on the Left have fallen silent.

No group was more angrily opposed to the war in Iraq than the netroots activists clustered around the left-wing Web site DailyKos. It's an influential site, one of the biggest on the Web, and in the Bush years many of its devotees took an active role in raising money and campaigning for anti-war candidates.

In 2006, DailyKos held its first annual convention, called YearlyKos, in Las Vegas. Amid the slightly discordant surroundings of the Riviera Hotel casino, the webby activists spent hours discussing and planning strategies not only to defeat Republicans but also to pressure Democrats to oppose the war more forcefully. The gathering attracted lots of mainstream press attention; Internet activism was the hot new thing.

Fast forward to last weekend, when YearlyKos, renamed Netroots Nation, held its convention in Pittsburgh. The meeting didn't draw much coverage, but the views of those who attended are still, as they were in 2006, a pretty good snapshot of the left wing of the Democratic party.

The news that emerged is that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have virtually fallen off the liberal radar screen. Kossacks (as fans of DailyKos like to call themselves) who were consumed by the Iraq war when George W. Bush was president are now, with Barack Obama in the White House, not so consumed, either with Iraq or with Obama's escalation of the conflict in Afghanistan. In fact, they barely seem to care.

As part of a straw poll done at the convention, the Democratic pollster Stanley Greenberg presented participants with a list of policy priorities like health care and the environment. He asked people to list the two priorities they believed "progressive activists should be focusing their attention and efforts on the most." The winner, by far, was "passing comprehensive health care reform." In second place was enacting "green energy policies that address environmental concerns."

And what about "working to end our military involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan"? It was way down the list, in eighth place.

Perhaps more tellingly, Greenberg asked activists to name the issue that "you, personally, spend the most time advancing currently." The winner, again, was health care reform. Next came "working to elect progressive candidates in the 2010 elections." Then came a bunch of other issues. At the very bottom -- last place, named by just one percent of participants -- came working to end U.S. involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan.

It's an extraordinary change in the mindset of the left. I attended the first YearlyKos convention, and have kept up with later ones, and it's safe to say that for many self-styled "progressives," the war in Iraq was the animating cause of their activism. They hated the war, and they hated George W. Bush for starting it. Or maybe they hated the war because George W. Bush started it. Either way, it was war, war, war.

Now, not so much.

Cindy Sheehan is learning that. She's still protesting the war, and on Monday she announced plans to demonstrate at Martha's Vineyard, where President Obama will be vacationing.

"We as a movement need to continue calling for an immediate end to the occupations [in Iraq and Afghanistan] even when there is a Democrat in the Oval Office," Sheehan said in a statement. "There is still no Noble Cause no matter how we examine the policies."

Give her credit for consistency, if nothing else. But her days are over. The people who most fervently supported her have moved on.

Not too long ago, some observers worried that Barack Obama would come under increasing pressure from the Left to leave both Iraq and Afghanistan. Now, it seems those worries were unfounded. For many liberal activists, opposing the war was really about opposing George W. Bush. When Bush disappeared, so did their anti-war passion.



http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/For-the-Left_-war-without-B
ush-is-not-war-at-all-8119694-53506047.html

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Wednesday, August 19, 2009 2:20 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


It's odd, SW - you never seem to post anything that's actually YOU speaking. For some reason, you seem completely happy to let hard-right websites have all your thoughts for you. It's almost as if you're nothing more than a right-wing net-bot.


And yeah, it DOES seem like there's a lot fewer people protesting the war in Iraq since we announced our upcoming departure. Weird how that works, huh. I seem to remember the Vietnam War protests dying down once Saigon fell, too.

Mike


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Wednesday, August 19, 2009 2:24 PM

PLAINJAYNE


You people are killin' me with these War-&-Peace style posts, man. I ain't got that kind of time. Just say it and be done.



Day late an'a dollar short...Story of my ruttin' life!

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Wednesday, August 19, 2009 2:49 PM

RAHLMACLAREN

"Damn yokels, can't even tell a transport ship ain't got no guns on it." - Jayne Cobb


*rolls into the RWED in a Herkimer Battle Jitney*
'Cause I sense this thread's not gonna last very long.

*scratches chin* Hmmm... I've heard of an armed conflict in Iraq, but I don't know.

What was the exact date (this decade) that CONGRESS DECLARED WAR ON IRAQ? Or if not Iraq than Saddam Hussian? (Why did we go in again?)

Please forgive my ignorance. It must be the air pressure. At 1200ft (above sea level).



--------------------------------------------------
Find here the Serenity you seek. -Tara Maclay

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Wednesday, August 19, 2009 3:03 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by RahlMaclaren:
*rolls into the RWED in a Herkimer Battle Jitney*
'Cause I sense this thread's not gonna last very long.

*scratches chin* Hmmm... I've heard of an armed conflict in Iraq, but I don't know.

What was the exact date (this decade) that CONGRESS DECLARED WAR ON IRAQ? Or if not Iraq than Saddam Hussian? (Why did we go in again?)

Please forgive my ignorance. It must be the air pressure. At 1200ft (above sea level).



--------------------------------------------------
Find here the Serenity you seek. -Tara Maclay



Rahl, I've been asking that for a number of years now, and never gotten any real answer.

For all this talk of wanting to "restore America" and "take America back" to what the founders intended, I have yet to see anyone on the right or "libertarian" side try to explain why it is that we're in Iraq in the first place, why we were EVER in Iraq, since it's written quite clearly into the Constitution that ONLY Congress has the power to declare war. And they haven't.

So really, there's all the justification Obama ever needed to order our troops out of the country tomorrow. They were never there legally, according to that Constitution that the Obama-haters so desperately want to follow NOW, even though they were content and happy to wipe their asses with it for the last eight years.

Mike


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Wednesday, August 19, 2009 3:43 PM

DREAMTROVE


Mike

while I think partisan debates are a waste of time, as is reading political opinion pieces like the one i didn't read above, the guy has a point, whatever else he might say, i don't know.

But the left seems to think that war is something the right does. The statistical correlation is terrible.

Yet, I hear many on the left, and even steven colbert, refer to Clinton as "8 years of peace." Yeah, well, it was relatively peaceful in Germany until the Fuhrer(sp?)'s death. When you're busy killing other people, it looks like peace.

But the govt. called for more troops to iraq a couple days ago, and upscaling operations in afghanistan, people are dying all over the place. Did anyone know that there was an autonymous kurdistan? or that the Iraqi army invaded it? or that this started a war? or that we are now sending troops to fight in this war, which is now a new war, because it's a war in kurdistan. Oh yeah, and we're fighting on the iraqi side, and we're blaming, guess who? Al Qaeda. Ah yes, we've resurrected a dead bugbear and made up a very stringy incoherent argument that somehow blames terrorism, rather than the very logical conclusion that Kurdistan became autonymous, so the Iraqis invaded (for oil maybe?) and the kurds fought back, and there wasn't really any terrorism, just a very normal sort of war. A foreign war, of the sort that we don't get involved in, except that we do. When there is oil.

So yeah, it's true of all partisans: Blind in one eye. They can see the other guy's war. I like Obama, personally, he's seems like a nice guy, and a lot smarter than the last one. But I don't like some of his friends, and his govt. is tending a little warlike, and somewhat socialist. It's not panic time, I think the birthers and deathers and all those nutters are probably just lightly cloaked racists, but I do think that everyone should sit up and take notice, and maybe say "Um... we voted for NO war..." sort of like the guy in striptease and the sugar...

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Wednesday, August 19, 2009 4:21 PM

BYTEMITE


Why has it gone quiet? Decreased coverage.

On the Sunday news, I don't think they even run that "Here is a list of the soldiers who have been killed in action in Iraq" anymore. It bothers me. Not because I'm morbid and I like seeing the names or anything, but because it feels like they've been forgotten.

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Wednesday, August 19, 2009 5:01 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


"I have yet to see anyone on the right or "libertarian" side try to explain why it is that we're in Iraq in the first place, why we were EVER in Iraq, since it's written quite clearly into the Constitution that ONLY Congress has the power to declare war. And they haven't. "

Hello,

You haven't been paying attention, if you haven't heard the many Libertarians and one Republican denouncing that very phenomenon.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Wednesday, August 19, 2009 5:59 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
"I have yet to see anyone on the right or "libertarian" side try to explain why it is that we're in Iraq in the first place, why we were EVER in Iraq, since it's written quite clearly into the Constitution that ONLY Congress has the power to declare war. And they haven't. "

Hello,

You haven't been paying attention, if you haven't heard the many Libertarians and one Republican denouncing that very phenomenon.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner



By "one Republican" I assume you're speaking of Chuck Hagel? Not sure who the Libertarians in Congress are. Ron Paul? Or is he the one Republican?

And yes, they need to be denouncing it often and loudly. And we need to pull out now, not later. Our "goal" was supposedly to oust Saddam, and we did that a long time ago. Shoulda called it good at that, and headed out to the hacienda.

In Afghanistan, I'm not sure WHAT our real goal and agenda is supposed to be anymore. Allegedly we were trying to kill Osama. Then we were toppling the Taliban. At some point I think we decided we had to just kill every living thing there, for whatever reason. Or support their heroin production. At this point, I don't think anyone really knows.

If our goal was to kill all the Taliban and Al Qaeda, that was never going to happen anyway. That was as likely as killing all the Viet Cong in the 'Nam. The more you kill, the more you convert by your methods of killing them. If our goal was to punish them for harboring 9/11 hijackers, let's call that goal accomplished and get the fuck out. Hey, look - we've bombed parts of the country forward into the Stone Age! In some hamlets, our bombs are estimated to have caused damages as high as seven dollars. In others, our constant barrages of shells have caused $160 in improvements.

Whatever our goals in either of those countries, staying longer really isn't in our best interests at this point, and most likely isn't in the best interests of either country or government. Call it a day, fellas, and come on home. Apparently you're going to be needed here for the impending crash and martial law that everyone's so sure are coming.

Mike


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Wednesday, August 19, 2009 6:36 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

Ron Paul switched to Republican for his Presidential run, which I supported for as long as it lasted. He is one Republican demanding that congress declare war if the US is going to go to war. He is also a Libertarian mouthpiece as a consequence of being in the Libertarian party for so long. In essence, he wanted to restore the Republicans to their founding ideals, which used to be much more similar to Libertarian ideals.

Anyhow, some reading. In case you think the man ain't making enough noise about it.

http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2002/tst101402.htm
http://www.antiwar.com/paul/paul49.html
http://www.newnation.org/Archives/NNN-Guest-Column-28.html

Some video footage:




In short, if we're do go to war, the man wants congress to call up a vote, and for everyone there to have to declare one way or the other and say why. He feels, probably rightly, that there would be less wars in such a case.

--Anthony


"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Wednesday, August 19, 2009 11:42 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
In some hamlets, our MILLION DOLLAR bombs are estimated to have caused damages as high as seven dollars.


There, fixed that for you - for clarity.

-Frem

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Thursday, August 20, 2009 2:04 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Thanks, Anthony, for the clarification. And yes, I'm with the good doctor on this one.

Mike


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Thursday, August 20, 2009 2:05 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
In some hamlets, our MILLION DOLLAR bombs are estimated to have caused damages as high as seven dollars.


There, fixed that for you - for clarity.

-Frem



Good call. I appreciate that.

Mike


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Thursday, August 20, 2009 3:33 AM

RIPWASH


Quote:

Originally posted by RahlMaclaren:
*rolls into the RWED in a Herkimer Battle



Gotta give you a high five on the Mystery Men reference there, Rahl! Good one!

Rahl officially wins the obscure movie reference of the day award!

*********************************************

"It's okay! I'm a leaf on the wind!!!"
"What does that mean?!?!?!"

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Thursday, August 20, 2009 3:47 AM

RIPWASH


Quote:

Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Yet, I hear many on the left, and even steven colbert, refer to Clinton as "8 years of peace."



Was it really, though? I know you hint at this, DT, but as I recall there were about three terrorist attacks against the US during Clinton's terms. Just because he didn't do much about it doesn't make it a time of "peace." It's been said that the terrorists were at war with us long before we even thought about fighting back.

*********************************************

"It's okay! I'm a leaf on the wind!!!"
"What does that mean?!?!?!"

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