Crap. Advice? by Bytemite

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Crap. Advice?

POSTED BY: BYTEMITE
UPDATED: Wednesday, November 4, 2009 14:11
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VIEWED: 1814
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Monday, November 2, 2009 11:39 AM

Some of you might remember the story I told you about my friend who can't afford insurance?

Got a letter back from social services saying he doesn't qualify for either SSI or disability.

Any ideas?

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Monday, November 2, 2009 11:50 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Some of you might remember the story I told you about my friend who can't afford insurance?

Got a letter back from social services saying he doesn't qualify for either SSI or disability.

Any ideas?

He could flee to Canada and claim refugee status. He can claim that his life would be in danger should he return home. He gets a hearing during which time he is entitled to Canadian health care.

Got this idea after reading about a gay fella from Pakistan that fled to Canada. Got support and health care for about 3 months while waiting a hearing.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.

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Monday, November 2, 2009 11:59 AM

BYTEMITE

So there's nothing else that he can look into within the system?

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Monday, November 2, 2009 2:48 PM

OUT2THEBLACK

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Some of you might remember the story I told you about my friend who can't afford insurance?

Got a letter back from social services saying he doesn't qualify for either SSI or disability.

Any ideas?

Repost...I didn't get the story , need more details...I've helped some folk in similar straits a few times...

Don't you mean Social Security Administration rather than 'social services' ?

How much work has this person done in the past , and how much has he paid in to SSA ?

He needs to visit SSA office and find out what should be available to tap...

They routinely deny everyone...Not to worry , just yet , but he could be in for a long , tough haul...

Hero's idea should not be taken strictly as a joke...Probably needs to re-file , then head North for a while...

He needs an attorney to help , most like...

Often , someone has to be denied TWICE before an attorney really gets involved...

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Monday, November 2, 2009 4:09 PM

BYTEMITE

Okay, so here's what's been going on.

Owing to his medical conditions, my friend has never been able to work. When he was a kid, he developed bad chest pain symptoms and difficulty breathing that his family was too poor to get checked out, and which they just assumed was really bad asthma. That kept him from doing much of anything. Anyway.

Well, recently that got worse, bad enough that he finally went to a doctor. As it turns out, he has a pretty severe herniation in his diaphragm, and one of his lungs is pretty much non-functional. They had to do an emergency operation to fix the herniation, which he couldn't afford, because he doesn't have insurance, and doesn't have more than $2000 dollars to his name.

So the collectors are calling, and then the chest pains started up again, enough so that he had to go to the emergency room (again), and they found he opened up his herniation (again), and fluid's starting to collect, but can't afford the surgery to fix it.

He's been trying to get on disability for a few years now, because his eyesight is also going, which would actually be easily fixable if he had the money. He thought that with his deteriorated lung he might have a chance now. Seems like not.

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Monday, November 2, 2009 4:52 PM

DREAMTROVE

In general I would say "look to state programs." That's what I did, several states have them, but they tend to be through insurance, and so there's a period for pre-existing conditions, it's hard to get a policy and then immediately get treatment for a pre-existing condition. Just consider it part of our overall pro-death policy.

Second, there are various hospitals around that take hard luck cases. The Mayo clinic might still be one.

Third, there are foreign countries that not only have socialized medicine he might qualify for, but also that have fairly cheap medical care. Obvious places that come to mind are Canada, anywhere in Europe, but there might be some less obvious ones, china, korea, japan, but also you might want to try cuba and particularly costa rica, which is fairly well known for its healthcare system.

Finally, there's the crooked way: Just go to lots of hospitals and get a collect bills, and then declare bankruptcy.

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Monday, November 2, 2009 5:00 PM

BYTEMITE

Thanks DT, Hero, I passed along your ideas.

If worse comes to worse, I have a plan B, I offered to help pay, somehow. I've known this guy for a decade, and for something easily fixable, I don't want to just stand by.

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Monday, November 2, 2009 5:15 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Don't take this the wrong way, Byte, but play on people's sympathies. Do it shamelessly. Put it out on the news - and make sure you blanket ALL the news stations in the area. Get them competing against each other to see who can get the most airplay out of it, and thereby the most ratings. Play up the most pitiable angles of the story. GUILT the living fuck out of people, until someone, some agency, some hospital, some group, some church, SOMEBODY steps forward with some goddam money since that is the ONLY thing that will help him now.

The alternative is that he dies for trying to have some dignity and not be a burden.

Shit, if it'll help at all, let's start a fund here. Set up a website for donations, and I'm in. Who'll stand with me? We've done the impossible before; we can do it again!

Mike

Let the wild rumpus start!

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Monday, November 2, 2009 5:21 PM

BYTEMITE

Well, we did help Tenth Crew Member when he really needed help...

He's not really the sort to accept charity... I do appreciate the sentiment though.

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Monday, November 2, 2009 8:12 PM

DREAMTROVE

i like mike's idea

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Monday, November 2, 2009 8:39 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

I'm with Mike, too. And will/would kick in what I can. When it comes to re-filing, too (which I highly recommend, as well as finding a law firm that deals with disability cases), make it sound just as bad as you conceivably can. Not necessarily actually LYING, just over-inflating, dramatizing, etc. That goes for anything he applies for. Mike's right; it does work.

I'd definitely re-apply, both state and federal, and keep on doing so...sometimes it takes a while. We had a guy at the DMDA support group I was in that helped people apply because he'd gotten good at it, and he was quite successful

An attorney is the best bet. It sounds from what you describe that he's DEFINITELY disabled, if he's been too weakened his whole life to work, yet without a proper diagnosis, it's tougher, no question. But the disability attorneys only get paid if you win, so they have a lot of incentive, and my experience is they're damned good at working the system so it works for those who need it!

IF your offer to pay is taken up, have him nonetheless keep on pushing both state and fed disability (each of which comes with healthcare); when he gets it (because he will in the end), he can pay you back after paying the lawyers. Bear in mind that, however long it takes, he'll get back-paid from the day he first applied, so there'll be a lump sum coming.

I understand how you feel, and laid out some for someone in a similiar situation, and Jim and I offered to pay for Choey's surgery when it looked like she wasn't going to get help (luckily UCSF came through in the end and it's done...after a two-year wait!), but if/when he can, it would be best for your friendship if he paid you back, even a few bucks at a time. Trust me. No matter HOW close you are, keep it in mind and follow through. Not for the money, but for how it would affect your friendship, long term.

________________________
Together we are greater than the sum of our parts

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Monday, November 2, 2009 10:25 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

It took me only 12 years to win SSI, after being cheated out of Disability. I could appeal again to fed court for Disability, but that would take another 12 years, and now I'm worn out. So I got cheated out of 75% of my money.

The key to winning at Social Security Administration is understanding they NEVER read ANY medical files, NOT EVER. They have you fill out hours of forms, and request all your med records, but that's a SCAM. SSA hires their own med doctors who will never run any tests nor perform a real exam, since they're paid to lie and say everyone is healthy, in order to steal all that money, and pay themselves bonus commissions.

There's a secret form that's required to win, and it's never available from any SSA office. You MUST write your own "Residual Functional Capacity Questionaire" for your doctor to fill out. It should take a doctor at least 30 minutes to 1 hour to fill out (at least 10 pages of questions). Google "RFC Questionaire" for examples to fit your diagnosis, or multiple diagnosis. Then immediately file that form with SSA ASAP, which will trump all their BS doctors. RFC ties the disease to how it degrades work performance.

File your RFC Questionaire, then APPEAL, APPEAL, APPEAL, within all time limits.

That advice should save you 10 years.

Also good advice to invest $200 in some REAL law books specializing on SSA disability law, written by lawyers for lawyers. That's helps a little or a lot, when dealing with lawyers, or just answering your questions. Google Westlaw and Lexis Nexis bookstores.

Some young people qualify for Disability without ever paying SS withholding taxes.

GO SEE A LAWYER SPECIALIZING IN SSA DISABILITY LAW. They won't take an SSI only case unless you prepay them $5,000 cash retainer. If you lose a Disability or SSI, you still have to pay your lawyer's "expenses", but not his attorney fee (unless too brake to pay, thus "collection proof" so your lawyer won't sue you, and if he does he can't collect). Beware that some lawyers don't know what an RFC Questionaire is, and it's impossible for any lawyer to win without it.

You can send your donations via PayPal at www.PirateNews.org, and read my winning disability file. No lawyer would take my case, but now I don't have to pay their $20,000+ fee.

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Tuesday, November 3, 2009 3:18 AM

KWICKO

Byte: WE don't know this guy, but you do, and if you trust him, that's good enough for me. I'm not saying we should all chip in our retirement funds, but everybody here chipping in $20 or so would HELP, right? And it's not going to break any of us.

Worst case? The guy dies. We tried to help when no one else would. Second-worse case? He's a fraud and takes the Browncoats for a tidy little sum. Big deal. If and when I give a "homeless" person money on the street, I don't expect that it's going towards a downpayment on a house; I pretty much expect it's going towards booze.

Let us know how we can help, and we're there. I don't have much in this world, but I don't have so little that I can't share what I do have.

Let's make this happen! We're Browncoats, dammit - we LIVE for this kind of thing!

And when I say get his story out there - I mean local, state, national, international, get it to EVERYBODY. Olbermann on MSNBC is on a crusade, and this kind of thing will fit his show and his agenda perfectly. Rachel Maddow as well. And Olbermann's little off-handed suggestion to hold healthcare free clinics in key "Bluedog Democrat" states, saying that if someone would do it, he'd donate the first $50,000 out of his pocket? Yeah, last I heard they'd raised over $1.3 million to make these happen in 5 states.

Mike

Let the wild rumpus start!

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Tuesday, November 3, 2009 5:13 AM

BYTEMITE

It's really, really nice of you guys to want to help out, but he hasn't even said if he'd accept the money that I offered.

Which actually I am slightly worried about, because I haven't heard from him since he told me a few days ago... He's either really depressed, or his pneumonia got bad again.

But I've passed along all your advice and ideas so far, hopefully I'll hear back soon.

EDIT: Whew, it's okay, I just saw that he logged in on the message board we both go to, so he's okay. More soon.

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Tuesday, November 3, 2009 6:08 AM

BYTEMITE

Heard from my friend, it's pretty much what I figured. He says that he's not yet in any position where he would accept money from anyone.

I let him know about the offers to help and that I've been talking to you all for advice. Maybe I should tell him about the site here, too, just so he can see what I'm saying and stop me if I'm getting anything wrong. You know, he's a browncoat too, and the two of us write collab stories and do a bit of Firefly RP, we've been interested in finding people who might join some of our games... This could be a place he might like, though he might be a little uneasy about the fact that I've told people he doesn't know what's going on. Eee, I hope he's not mad at me, now that I think of it.

But since I told him about how getting on disability will give him backpay from when he first applied and how lawyers won't be able to collect unless he wins, he said that he's going to try to get a lawyer. He said that's probably what he should have done in the first place, because he's heard that's the only way people have gotten on disability where he lives. He was hoping he wouldn't have to hire one though.

He also said this, and I was wondering if any of you might know why this might have happened.

Quote:
They (the people from his social security office adminstration/whatever they call it where he lives - Byte) SPECIFICALLY told me to just ignore the first denial letter I got because it would /only/ apply to Disability, and we knew I didn't qualify for that from the start. That is pretty much a direct quote. "Just ignore the first denial, it'll only be for Disability. It'll take us a lot longer to decide if you qualify for SSI." I can only think of one reason they'd tell me to ignore the first denial and then deny me on BOTH OF THEM in it (the letter they sent - Byte) - to trick me.

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Tuesday, November 3, 2009 6:15 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Some young people qualify for Disability without ever paying SS withholding taxes.

BYTE: This is my dd's case, and your friend's too. There are TWO programs involved as a result of ONE filing.

The FIRST is Social Security Disability Insurance. It is funded from Social Security contributions. It is what you would get IF you had worked for 40 quarters AND paid into Social Security disability. It is very easy to determine if a person qualifies for Social Security disability, and that rejection comes right away! SO it is common to get a letter of rejection from THIS program within a month of application.

BUT, there is SECOND program run by Social Security. It's called Supplemental Security Income (SSI). It is funded from general revenues, and is based on need, not on prior Social Security contributions, so it has nothing at all to do with the first program. It takes a little while longer for them to reach that decision... roughly 2-3 months. Quite commonly, after you have received a rejection letterform SSDI you will then receive an acceptance letter from SSI.

My dd was rejected from the first program (no work history) but accepted by the second (mentally disabled, less than $2000 assets), which provides her with a minimal income (about $500/mo in CA) and acceptance into CA state Medicaid. It sounds as if your friend should be approved for the SSI program since he meets qualifications. Just make sure that they are processing his application for this program as well- have your friend's mom check with his caseworker. (Yes, it takes many many phone calls to get through, Social Security Admin is somewhat underfunded.)

Pass this on the your friend:
http://ssa-custhelp.ssa.gov/cgi-bin/ssa.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_
faqid=245

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Tuesday, November 3, 2009 6:22 AM

BYTEMITE

Okay, suddenly what he's been talking about makes a whole lot more sense. I've never been good with legalese or ever had to deal with disability. ^_^'

I'll pass it along. Thanks Sig.

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Tuesday, November 3, 2009 6:22 AM

OUT2THEBLACK

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
...I let him know about the offers to help and that I've been talking to you all for advice. Maybe I should tell him about the site here, too, just so he can see what I'm saying and stop me if I'm getting anything wrong. You know, he's a browncoat too, and the two of us write collab stories and do a bit of Firefly RP, we've been interested in finding people who might join some of our games... This could be a place he might like, though he might be a little uneasy about the fact that I've told people he doesn't know what's going on. Eee, I hope he's not mad at me, now that I think of it.

But since I told him about how getting on disability will give him backpay from when he first applied and how lawyers won't be able to collect unless he wins, he said that he's going to try to get a lawyer. He said that's probably what he should have done in the first place, because he's heard that's the only way people have gotten on disability where he lives. He was hoping he wouldn't have to hire one though.

He also said this, and I was wondering if any of you might know why this might have happened.

Quote:
They (the people from his social security office adminstration/whatever they call it where he lives - Byte) SPECIFICALLY told me to just ignore the first denial letter I got because it would /only/ apply to Disability, and we knew I didn't qualify for that from the start. That is pretty much a direct quote. "Just ignore the first denial, it'll only be for Disability. It'll take us a lot longer to decide if you qualify for SSI." I can only think of one reason they'd tell me to ignore the first denial and then deny me on BOTH OF THEM in it (the letter they sent - Byte) - to trick me.

Tricks is how they work...Listen to PN on this one , he actually does know what he is talking about...

The Social Security 'trust fund' is actually just full of IOU's from CONgress...

Your friend can probably get SSI , but not standard SS disability...

You know what state he lives in ?

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Tuesday, November 3, 2009 6:46 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

O2B: The Social Security Trust fund has nothing to do with SSI, because SSI is funded from general revenues. (To be accurate, you should say that the Federal budget is also full of IOUs.)

BYTE: have your friend read the letter carefully to make sure that it says what he thinks it does. IF he was indeed denied from SSI, when they deny an applicant they MUST list the reason for denial. What was the reason??? That would be the best point to start from.

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Tuesday, November 3, 2009 8:37 AM

DRAGO

Hi folks; I'm the friend Byte's been mentioning who's having such a crap time.

Just to set the record straight, I thought I should post here. Byte's been trying hard to get information that could help me, and from what I'm reading, everyone here's been trying hard to get that information for her. And I believe money was involved - which I won't take, but thank you for the sentiment.

My problems are varied. I have very bad asthma that turns me into a stooped over gasping wheezing wreck after just a few minutes of any real work. I'm blind in my right eye, and my left eye is very nearsighted (And getting worse, according to the last optometrist I was able to see.) I've got various mental issues, chief amongst them, fairly severe Social Anxiety Disorder and depression. For this collection of maladies, I was denied SSI.

And recently it was discovered that I had a hernia, or hole, in my diaphragm, and that most of my life has been spent with my appendix and a sizable bit of my large intestine up in my chest, which has resulted in my right lung becoming atrophied - it only works at half-capacity at the best of times. I decided to reapply for SSI since something new had come up.

A few years ago I applied for disability/SSI. Naturally I was denied disability since I've never worked. Yes, I'm aware there was probably work I could have done somewhere. The problem is I live in the middle of nowhere in Oklahoma - The nearest source of jobs is an hour-and-a-half drive away. And of course, I can't drive. My vision is too bad, and my asthma medications leave me a nervous twitchy bundle of nerves that'd get someone killed sooner rather than later.

Months later I was denied SSI as well. That's par for the course in Oklahoma - it's one of the hardest states in the US to get SSI in. At the time I was having problems with depression, and let the 60 day appeal limit pass without taking advantage of it.

There was a bit of a misunderstanding over my newest Disability denial letter. You see, I'm usually pretty bad at deciphering things like government letters. They speak a different language and I never learned it. My mother was the one who read the letter, and who said that they'd turned me down for Disability AND SSI.

As it turns out, she read it very, very wrong. It said that I did not qualify for other Social Security benefits. She believed that SSI was counted among those benefits. Once I caught on to what was going on, I told mom that I hadn't been turned down for SSI. She was skeptical, so I called the local Social Security office and asked them about the situation. They told me that my SSI case was still up and that were I accepted/denied, I'd receive a separate letter for it.

So there's not much of a crisis yet. That comes in two or three months when they automatically turn me down just because this is Oklahoma, and no one gets on Disability or SSI in this state without legal help/a lawyer to bully people. >_>

Anyway. I hope that cleared some stuff up. Thanks for the advice (and the financial aid offers I'm going to have to turn down.)

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Tuesday, November 3, 2009 8:57 AM

BYTEMITE

Well, I still think this has all been very helpful, and we have a lot of ideas now about what to do if the government decides to be a jerk about this... Which they might still.

Sorry for the panic, though. I'm known to be a bit of a worrywort about things. And I kinda wish I might have introduced you all under better circumstances, could be a lot of fun.

Thank you all again for your help, advice, and generosity.

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Tuesday, November 3, 2009 9:06 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

I feel sorry for your troubles, but welcome to the board!

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Tuesday, November 3, 2009 12:17 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Ah, I see.

Please advise me if you've not heard back from SSI within 17 days.

The office via which they make the determination is not in Oklahoma, thankfully - as such, pressure can be applied at this point without needing any more information.

-F

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Tuesday, November 3, 2009 2:01 PM

KWICKO

Drago: Welcome - we're damn glad to have you here. We wish you the very best, and we'll hold in case you need our help. It's what Browncoats do.

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Tuesday, November 3, 2009 5:06 PM

DREAMTROVE

Drago,

I know a fair number of people who deal with this stuff and the single piece of advice I can give is this:

Talk to people in these offices. Keep calling and talking to them until you find a sympathetic ear. Once you find someone who will fight on your behalf within the system, things get much easier.

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Tuesday, November 3, 2009 7:47 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

You can go live in Moscow Russia, buy yourself a Commie bride, and get paid $60,000/year Social Security SSI to immigrate USA with immunity from deportation, without ever paying Social Security taxes.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2620588399986448648
www.hg.org/law-firms/Social-Security-Disability/Russia.html
www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/progdesc/ssptw/2008-2009/europe/russia.pdf

Quote:
Originally posted by out2theblack:

The Social Security 'trust fund' is actually just full of IOU's from CONgress...

Quote:
congress.
7. coitus; sexual intercourse.
-Dictionary.com

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Tuesday, November 3, 2009 8:07 PM

BYTEMITE

EDIT: Wrote a bad joke. It doesn't exist anymore.

If anything else comes up I'll post it here.

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Wednesday, November 4, 2009 4:43 AM

DREAMTROVE

Quote:
You can go live in Moscow Russia, buy yourself a Commie bride, and get paid $60,000/year Social Security SSI to immigrate USA with immunity from deportation, without ever paying Social Security taxes.

Really? If this is true and not a lunatic rant, I'm very fond of this idea. What if I marry more than one? I think I can marry four, a concession to the muslims. That would by a quarter mil. That's a nice salary, plus, it would be hot.

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Wednesday, November 4, 2009 7:42 AM

OUT2THEBLACK

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
O2B: The Social Security Trust fund has nothing to do with SSI, because SSI is funded from general revenues. (To be accurate, you should say that the Federal budget is also full of IOUs.)

No duh , little beaver...

SSI IS administered out of the same offices , dungheaded idjit...Which was The Point...

To be accurate , you should also say that every 'Federal Reserve Note' is an IOU drawn from a Private Bank that loans the Monopoly Money with usury , to the CONgress , which doesn't keep its sworn oaths to represent The People or uphold the Constitution...

To be accurate , you should also say that Social Security is a CONfidence game and a Ponzi Scheme , and the IRS is a bunch of enFORCEment goons for the illegal shakedown of The People , for the benefit of the Federal 'Reserve' Banksters...

To be accurate , you should also recall that you had to be taken to school about the difference between deficit and debt , and that I was the driver of your short little bus.

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Wednesday, November 4, 2009 1:49 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Hello Drago, and welcome. You have my deepest sympathy; I cannot conceive of how they can deny you with all of that, but you know how it goes.

I again STRONGLY urge you to find a Disability lawyer. They know the ins and outs, and whatever they'd charge, they wouldn't be paid unless you won, and given you'd be back-paid from the day you first applied, it shouldn't be as burdensome as hiring a lawyer up front, hopefully!

I'm sorry to hear it's Oklahoma; that's one of those "backward" states where safety nets have a lot of holes and are pretty thin to begin with. Your MENTAL disability alone would qualify you out here in CA; I've now got some things that would qualify me, but I initially GOT IT for my bipolarity. It's a legal disability. You might check into that (I hope you listed it on your forms)...I'm not sure, but I THINK that's a federal law.

Good luck; please keep in touch or have Byte do it for you so we know how you're doing...us Browncoats gotta stick together, heaven knows the government isn't gonna do it for us! And do NOT reject our offer out of hand, just keep it in mind. My signature is what I believe in more than one respect; together we are also STRONGER than the sum of our parts!

________________________
Together we are greater than the sum of our parts

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Wednesday, November 4, 2009 2:11 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Drago

I have never been in that position. I don't know the hoops or the loopholes. All I can do is wish you the very best I can and hope that in the verse good wishes count for something.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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