REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

China tells Obama, 'We own the United States'

POSTED BY: PIRATENEWS
UPDATED: Thursday, November 26, 2009 04:59
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Tuesday, November 24, 2009 9:02 AM

GINOBIFFARONI


Quote:

Originally posted by Riverlove:
Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by dreamtrove:

Of course who here wouldn't like to see the US govt. leveled. Aside from maybe nik and sig.

I just want it cleaned up. Big-time.


The laughing Chrisisall


Don't worry too much Chris as all that you desire will happen soon enough. This Democrat-led Govt. will be thrown out of office next year when they lose both houses of Congress in historic fashion. The only down side for you unfortunately, is that there likely will NOT be room at the table for your Taliban pals. You did say the other day they deserved a seat in the Afghan Govt. didn't you? And who could argue with that bit of wisdom, right Chris? You've missed the beheadings, whippings, rapes, stonings, acid-in-the-face attacks on schoolgirls haven't you? You want to see all that brought back, right Chrisisalltaliban?




Yeah, people should listen to Americans to avoid all that...

wait....


New arrest in US gang rape
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10607
189&pnum=1


Forced labour and rape, the new face of slavery in America
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/nov/22/people-trafficking-usa-pro
stitution-ohio


New US rape allegation in Okinawa
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7256056.stm

Fatal skid row shooting believed tied to narcotics dispute
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/11/dispute-over-narcotics-b
elieved-behind-fatal-shooting-on-skid-row.html


Life, death and fear on the L.A. River
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/courts/

Schoolgirl, six, shot dead by classmate
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/661564.stm


or one could go into the actions that occur in countries that have governments propped up by the United States like Israel, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Columbia....


Perhaps your moral rantings would be better served to help those in your own country and the countrys of your friends before you go off on the rest of the world



Either your with the terrorists, or ... your with the terrorists


Lets party like its 1939

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Tuesday, November 24, 2009 9:10 AM

GINOBIFFARONI


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
I think the argument for letting the Taliban participate in elections is that 1) it gives some legitimacy to the government, a message that reinforces that we're there to help the people of Afghanistan choose who they want to rule them even if it's people we disagree with, and 2) when the Taliban gets absolutely NO votes, we get to laugh at them because they just hung themselves with the rope we offered them. Mwahaha.



Yuppers. Of course, it will help if they actually DO get no votes, and if it happened in a "clean" election. We apparently don't trust ourselves or our efforts there enough to take that chance. After all, what if the election DIDN'T go our way? (I'm lookin' at YOU, Hamas!)

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde




An insurgency cannot exist without at least some base level support from the people...

At the rate the insurgency has grown over the past five years, I think that suggest both major dis satisfaction with the present regime ( particular with the election fiasco ) as well as the foreign troops propping that government up ( random airstrikes and drone attacks cannot help )

At this point, if a free election were possible, the Taliban would probably win quite a few protest votes, as Obama won many anybody but the asshole republican votes...

Maybe even win, but the point is lost as we would never see a real free vote anyway...



Either your with the terrorists, or ... your with the terrorists


Lets party like its 1939

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Tuesday, November 24, 2009 9:14 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:

Refresh my memory - wasn't it Reagan who supported, armed, and trained the people who became the Taliban and Al Qaeda? Seems you Republicans have more of a love affair with them than anyone else does.




Obama's jewish advisor Zbigniew Brezinski founded AllCIAduh, hanging out with USAma Bin Laden in Pakistan (Village Voice 1981 when CIA agent Barack Hussein Obama Soetoro was illegally in Pakistan)

Quote:

"Regret what? That secret operation (the CIA backing of Islamic Fundamentalist Terrorists) was an excellent idea. It had the effect of drawing the Russians into the Afghan trap and you want me to regret it? What is most important to the history of the world? The Taliban or the collapse of the Soviet empire? Some stirred-up Moslems or the liberation of Central Europe and the end of the cold war?"
-Zbigniew Brzezinski, Le Nouvel Observateur, Jan, 1998

"I've learned an immense amount from Dr. Brzezinski."
-Hussein Obama, 12 Sept 2007
youtube.com/watch?v=ASlETEx0T-I

"I endorsed Obama."
-Zbigniew Brzezinski, MSNBC
youtube.com/watch?v=NCO7Pr7RJ7s



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Tuesday, November 24, 2009 9:21 AM

BYTEMITE


Gino: yeah, also probable. It's kind of too bad that a few years ago, maybe when we first went in, we didn't let the Taliban "compete" in an election when they were extremely unpopular.

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Tuesday, November 24, 2009 9:21 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Quote:

Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:

When say a car company decides to build 300 top end SUVs instead of 3000 base models because the profit margins are higher on the SUVs... and lay off 800 workers in the process... is that really to the benefit of people ?



It freaks me out that Govt Motors still refuses to advertise its Cavalier base model. The smallest car it advertises is the competitor of Honda Accord. Never mind that Honda Civic is the king of the hill in sales. GM runs ads with its entire product line, sans Cavalier, bragging about their gas milage, when Cavalier gets the best mileage for GM.

This decision is made at Bohemian Grove, Bilderburger and CFR, not at GM, to subvert USA for the NWO.

My engineering professors told our class that in 10 years, there would be no more engineering jobs in USA. That was 9 years ago.

Commie China at Billary Clinton Blythe Rockefeller White House: Amerika Destroyed by Design
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4167926428522965274#

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Tuesday, November 24, 2009 9:37 AM

GINOBIFFARONI


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
Gino: yeah, also probable. It's kind of too bad that a few years ago, maybe when we first went in, we didn't let the Taliban "compete" in an election when they were extremely unpopular.



How much do you know about how the Taliban came to power Byte ?


In some areas, I think not only would they have won, at any time...

That is the major flaw with trying to push the system of gov that is being pushed

At least with a parliamentary system, everyone gets a voice, and representation. The drawbacks is it is harder to apply outside influence to control such a system, but when you do not marginalize the minority, and you avoid situations where if an area votes for someone who loses the election, there is not retaliation such as withholding aid moneys as is happening now.



Either your with the terrorists, or ... your with the terrorists


Lets party like its 1939

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Tuesday, November 24, 2009 9:42 AM

GINOBIFFARONI


Quote:

Originally posted by piratenews:
Quote:

Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:

When say a car company decides to build 300 top end SUVs instead of 3000 base models because the profit margins are higher on the SUVs... and lay off 800 workers in the process... is that really to the benefit of people ?



It freaks me out that Govt Motors still refuses to advertise its Cavalier base model. The smallest car it advertises is the competitor of Honda Accord. Never mind that Honda Civic is the king of the hill in sales. GM runs ads with its entire product line, sans Cavalier, bragging about their gas milage, when Cavalier gets the best mileage for GM.

This decision is made at Bohemian Grove, Bilderburger and CFR, not at GM, to subvert USA for the NWO.

My engineering professors told our class that in 10 years, there would be no more engineering jobs in USA. That was 9 years ago.

Commie China at Billary Clinton Blythe Rockefeller White House: Amerika Destroyed by Design
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4167926428522965274#]




Funny enough I think the direct historical comparison would be 1930's Germany

" In the early 1930s German auto industry was still largely composed of luxury models, and the average German rarely could afford something more than a motorcycle. Seeking a potential new market, some auto industries begun independent projects of a "Volks Auto" (people's automobile) - Mercedes' 170H, Adler's AutoBahn, Steyr 55, Hanomag 1,3L, among others. The trend was not new, as Béla Barényi is credited with having conceived the basic design in the middle 1920's. Joseph Ganz developed the Standard Superior (going as far as advertising it as the "German Volkswagen").[2] Also, in Czechoslovakia, the Hans Ledwinka's penned Tatra 77, a very popular car amongst the German elite, was becoming smaller and more affordable at each revision. In 1933, with many of the above projects still in development or early stages of production, Adolf Hitler declared his intentions for a state-sponsored "Volkswagen" program. Hitler required a basic vehicle capable of transporting two adults and three children at 100 km/h (62 mph). The "People's Car" would be available to citizens of the Third Reich through a savings scheme at 990 Reichsmark, about the price of a small motorcycle (an average income being around 32RM a week).[3]

Despite heavy lobbing in favor of one of the existing projects, Hitler choose to sponsor an all new, state owned factory. The engineer chosen for the task was Ferdinand Porsche. By then an already famed engineer, Porsche was the designer of the Mercedes 170H, and worked at Steyr for quite some time in the late 1920s. When he opened his own design studio he landed two separate "Auto für Jedermann" (car for everybody) projects with NSU and Zündapp, both motorcycle manufacturers. Neither project come to fruition, stalling at prototype phase, but the basic concept remained in Porsche's mind time enough, so on 22 June 1934, Dr. Ferdinand Porsche agreed to create the "People's Car" for Hitler.

Changes included better fuel efficiency, reliability, ease of use, and economically efficient repairs and parts. The intention was that ordinary Europeans would buy the car by means of a savings scheme ("Fünf Mark die Woche musst Du sparen, willst Du im eigenen Wagen fahren" — "Save five Marks a week, if you want to drive your own car"), which around 336,000 people eventually paid into. Volkswagen honoured its savings agreements in West Germany (but not in East Germany) after World War II[citation needed]. Prototypes of the car called the "KdF-Wagen" (German: Kraft durch Freude — "strength through joy"), appeared from 1936 onwards (the first cars had been produced in Stuttgart). The car already had its distinctive round shape and air-cooled, flat-four, rear-mounted engine. The VW car was just one of many KdF programmes which included things such as tours and outings. The prefix Volks— ("People's") was not just applied to cars, but also to other products in Europe; the "Volksempfänger" radio receiver for instance. On 28 May 1937, the Gesellschaft zur Vorbereitung des Deutschen Volkswagens mbH was established by the Deutsche Arbeitsfront. It was later renamed "Volkswagenwerk GmbH" on 16 September 1938. "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen




Either your with the terrorists, or ... your with the terrorists


Lets party like its 1939

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Tuesday, November 24, 2009 10:01 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

It freaks me out that Govt Motors still refuses to advertise its Cavalier base model. The smallest car it advertises is the competitor of Honda Accord. Never mind that Honda Civic is the king of the hill in sales. GM runs ads with its entire product line, sans Cavalier, bragging about their gas milage, when Cavalier gets the best mileage for GM.




Well, that COULD have to do with the fact that Chevy hasn't sold the Cavalier since 2005. Do most car companies still keep their old, dead models in their new-car lineup ads? If so, it would explain a lot about why they're in such financial dire straits...

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Tuesday, November 24, 2009 10:09 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Of course who here wouldn't like to see the US govt. leveled. Aside from maybe nik and sig.
I'm tempted to say "Fuck you and your little dog too, DT", but seeing as I've sworn off snark I'll refrain. Besides, I like little dogs.

I'm not a lover of this government: neither most peeps who inhabit it, nor the particular form. But there's a difference between saying "I don't like THIS government" and "I don't like ALL government" ... a difference you seem not to have grasped.

If you level government it will be replaced by a type and form not of your own choosing. So if I were to consider leveling government... something I have done quite often on this forum, as you should know... I would like to replace it with specific forms of governnance that are more democratic than now. For example, I have dicussed the problem of a SINGLE LEADER, whether called President, Chair, or CEO. IMHO all workplaces and all governmental functions should be controlled as cooperatives, with no "chair" or "CEO" positions created.

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Tuesday, November 24, 2009 10:15 AM

BYTEMITE


Gino: Bah, Parliaments are Republics just as much as America's congress is. Technically in both the executive branch is SUPPOSED to answer to the legislative branch which is SUPPOSED to answer to the people... They don't.

However, you're right about the problem of the minority vote and exclusion. It's a hard problem to answer for. In the best world, The majority would state what they want, the minority would troubleshoot, and some effort would be made to either address the concerns or compromise.

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Tuesday, November 24, 2009 10:26 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Byte: I don't think you understand how a parliamentary system is supposed to work.

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Tuesday, November 24, 2009 10:43 AM

OUT2THEBLACK


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:

Of course who here wouldn't like to see the US govt. leveled. Aside from maybe nik and sig.
I'm tempted to say "Fuck you and your little dog too, DT", but seeing as I've sworn off snark I'll refrain. Besides, I like little dogs.

...IMHO all workplaces and all governmental functions should be controlled as cooperatives, with no "chair" or "CEO" positions created.



So , what SignyM is saying is that she only favors 'doggie-style' positions , rather than 'chair' positions...

Because she 'likes' little dogs... as long as they're 'cooperative'. Also , her concept of 'workplace' involves such activities as she does
'on-the-clock' with little dogs...

Plainly then , she IS a government 'employee'...


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Tuesday, November 24, 2009 10:49 AM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

I don't think you understand how a parliamentary system is supposed to work.


Do they elect representatives?

Then they're a Republic.

The ONLY plus involved here is that I haven't heard of any parliamentary systems with the damn stupid electoral college.

But the same problems and potential corruption applies to a parliamentary system as they do to any republic-based system.

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Tuesday, November 24, 2009 10:55 AM

GINOBIFFARONI


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
Gino: Bah, Parliaments are Republics just as much as America's congress is. Technically in both the executive branch is SUPPOSED to answer to the legislative branch which is SUPPOSED to answer to the people... They don't.

However, you're right about the problem of the minority vote and exclusion. It's a hard problem to answer for. In the best world, The majority would state what they want, the minority would troubleshoot, and some effort would be made to either address the concerns or compromise.



Where is the check to Karzai in this system ?

If it was a parliamentary system, the checks are automatic...

The Prime Minister only has marginally more power than any elected member, due to the fact that his/her party controls the majority of seats. In the better systems, ( not mine unfortunately ) you have 6 or 7 partys each representing a different point of view having to find a common consensus before policy can be made. This competition helps to find the middle ground where the people usually live.

If you want to look at what I think is about the best system, I would suggest the Swiss Government, in addition to what I said above they also practice a form of direct democracy in which the public can override government on issues and force deciding referendums. A little ambitious for Afghanistan, but it has tied a country with 4 official languages together with little or no conflicts in their history.


Also with the Taliban... they began as a political force during the post Soviet withdrawl, when warlords and drug merchants controlled their own parts of Afghanistan. These people enslaved everyone, and raped and killed anyone who got in their way, or simply for the hell of it ( picture Somalia )

Mohammed Omar and the Taliban had fought the Soviets... then settled back into their villages. When faced with these warlords, they organized, and fought them driving them into a small pocket ( The Northern Alliance )

Today, the former Northern Alliance make up a large component of the Afghan government, many of these men have committed atrocity's and warcrimes... but they enjoy American support and protection... and have reestablished their drug trade and other activitys

We have a situation with no good guys, but if given an open, free choice... the Pashtun would likely side with the Taliban with the drug warlords being the other choice...

Likely why the president of Afghanistan is known as the mayor of Kabul... without the force of arms he has no real authority.



Either your with the terrorists, or ... your with the terrorists


Lets party like its 1939

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Tuesday, November 24, 2009 11:13 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


O2B
Anger has rendered you incomprehensible.

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Tuesday, November 24, 2009 11:24 AM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Where is the check to Karzai in this system ?

If it was a parliamentary system, the checks are automatic...



Ah, you were speaking about Karzai. I think the main problem here is corruption, and I've also heard that some of the vote smudging here is actually a common practice in the Middle East.

Now, I want to be clear: that doesn't make it RIGHT.

But the system us Americans set up in Afghanistan, we set up with the assumption that the people of Afghanistan think the same way Americans do, and behave the same way, same practices and etc., and MORE importantly, we expected the Afghanistan leadership to have the same skill in hiding their transgression as do US politicians. Well, why would the Afghani leadership have needed to? They just have to get into power and then the position is theirs in subsequent elections simply by might makes right. We see this in a number of Middle Eastern leaders, it's by no means an uncommon perspective or tactic regionally.

Heck, voter fraud is practically inevitable WHEREVER you have an election.

The 2005 Afghanistan parliament is fortunately more diverse, so hopefully they'll represent some resistance to Karzai, but only if America stops meddling.

And once again, in the American system, the judicial and legislative are supposed to check the presidential power (and this is also present in the Afghanistan system), unfortunately many of those checks on the executive branch were given up a long time ago.


Quote:

direct democracy in which the public can override government on issues and force deciding referendums.


I like this, but why have the representatives in the first place? If you care enough about an issue, call a town meeting, but otherwise giving people the job of writing laws just means they write themselves crap they can make money off of or or write themselves loopholes. The longer a system of law persists and is added to, the more of a bureaucratic nightmare it becomes.

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Tuesday, November 24, 2009 11:53 AM

DREAMTROVE


River


None of this is a defense of anyone involved. I just want to paint a picture that doesn't even begin to describe how complicated the picture is. It's so complicated not only do I not understand it, but President Obama has just said he doesn't understand it, and then he went and did the amazingly stupid thing I'm about to post as soon as I find the story, but re: the confusion on which terrorist is which:

Be suspicious of everything you read. I'm not sure what's going on in Afghanistan anymore. It seems the US Media calls everything in Afgh "Taliban" and accuses them of chopping off inked fingers, etc.

The israelis did the same thing to hamas.

I'm not apologizing for the terrorists, I'm saying "Do you really know which name the terrorists are going under?"

I mean you have Wahabi and the Northen Alliance and Allah knows how many other factions.

Same story in Israel: we report Hamas did such and such an attack or claimed credit, but did they? Maybe it was Islamic Jihad.

Okay, I get the "so what?" and "why would anyone bother?" But the reality is that the US, Israel, Britain and other world powers, such as China, Russia, India, as well as Muslim powers like Saudia Arabia, Iran, Turkey, Dubai, Pakistan, all have a vested interest in the outcome, and all from time to time make deals and alliances with muslim militias.

Not all Militas are created equal. Some are fried on drugs, strapped up with bombs, and killing everyone in sight. Others are using military, political and diplomatic means to gain power. It would be completely unfair to compare the Mahdi with the Mujahideen, or to compare either with the Janjaweed.

Right now in the Afghan conflict there are 3 million enemy combatants. That's pretty staggering. (Twice the size of the US military.) There are a similar number in Pakistan.

25,000 of those 3,000,000 are Taliban.

At least another 3,000 are Al Qaeda.

I don't have numbers for the Northern Alliance or other militias off the top of my head, but you get how complicated the picture is.

The US Govt. turned against the Taliban in mid 2001 when negotiations broke down. Since then, things have deteriorated, diplomatically. That doesn't mean that we can have any certainty what the Taliban, per se, has to do with anything to do with the US. We throw around the term "Taliban in Pakistan" with very little accuracy, just as we threw around the term "Enemy."

Essetially, we're doing exactly what Israel is doing, which is what wartime powers always do: Blame every evil on your own personally enemy.

Reality is that the Taliban are quite popular, and liable to end up in power when the Karzai govt. collapses, and they hate the US, and want no part of a US pressence in the muslim world, and we would find ourselves "Uninvited" and our govt. very much doesn't want that.

This is a similar position to the position of Israel: Hamas is pretty dead set on a Palestinian State, but willing to recognizing Israel in exchange. By contrast, Islamic Jihad would stop at nothing to see Israel destroyed, IIRC. So logically, Israel would oppose Islamic Jihad more, right? Well, then there's the matter of pratical reality: There's a lot of support for Hamas, and they might succeed, and Israel really doesn't want that. Islamic Jihad is far more Pie in the Sky and will never ever get what it wants. So regardless of intentions, Hamas is a far greater threat, which is why Israel was blaming Hamas for everything even before they came to power: Because they knew they were a threat.

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Tuesday, November 24, 2009 12:09 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:

Gino: Bah, Parliaments are Republics just as much as America's congress is. Technically in both the executive branch is SUPPOSED to answer to the legislative branch which is SUPPOSED to answer to the people... They don't.



Neither branch actually reads nor writes the laws they pass, nor could they understand the law if they tried to read it. Judicial branch also ignores the law in 99.99% of cases. All fed govt is run on borrowed money. None of the income tax funds govt, all tax revenue is exported to foreign banksters.

That's the democracy we're spreading by genocide.

BTW, dictionaries define the word congress as sexual intercourse. Which explains lobbying perfectly.


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Tuesday, November 24, 2009 12:13 PM

OUT2THEBLACK


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
O2B
Anger has rendered you incomprehensible.



Sorry to hear that your madness has rendered you so uncomprehending , then...

But , you've always been angry , so this end result was pretty much inevitable .

Get some help . Really .

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Tuesday, November 24, 2009 12:35 PM

GINOBIFFARONI


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
Quote:

Where is the check to Karzai in this system ?

If it was a parliamentary system, the checks are automatic...



Ah, you were speaking about Karzai. I think the main problem here is corruption, and I've also heard that some of the vote smudging here is actually a common practice in the Middle East.

Now, I want to be clear: that doesn't make it RIGHT.

But the system us Americans set up in Afghanistan, we set up with the assumption that the people of Afghanistan think the same way Americans do, and behave the same way, same practices and etc., and MORE importantly, we expected the Afghanistan leadership to have the same skill in hiding their transgression as do US politicians. Well, why would the Afghani leadership have needed to? They just have to get into power and then the position is theirs in subsequent elections simply by might makes right. We see this in a number of Middle Eastern leaders, it's by no means an uncommon perspective or tactic regionally.

Heck, voter fraud is practically inevitable WHEREVER you have an election.

The 2005 Afghanistan parliament is fortunately more diverse, so hopefully they'll represent some resistance to Karzai, but only if America stops meddling.

And once again, in the American system, the judicial and legislative are supposed to check the presidential power (and this is also present in the Afghanistan system), unfortunately many of those checks on the executive branch were given up a long time ago.


Quote:

direct democracy in which the public can override government on issues and force deciding referendums.


I like this, but why have the representatives in the first place? If you care enough about an issue, call a town meeting, but otherwise giving people the job of writing laws just means they write themselves crap they can make money off of or or write themselves loopholes. The longer a system of law persists and is added to, the more of a bureaucratic nightmare it becomes.



When the US went into Afghanistan there was alot of talk about the experience the US had with nation building and the example of Japan was used to great effect by people who, in my opinion never looked at what Douglas MacArthur did to set up the post war government in Japan or why he did it... several great books on this are out there, I could recommended one if your interested.

It looks to me like any lesson to be learned from that example was thrown out the window, and a disimilar copy of the disfunctional American system was emplaced... and now that mistake more than anything else will cost the US, NATO, and the Afghanis themselves, because the US will not abandon this mistake, nor will or should the Afghanis accept it.


As for the direct democracy, I believe first you need to register a petition with a clear question, then gather a set number of signatures ( repersents I think 2% of the pop where 1 sig repersents 100 people ) well something like that, a statistical formula within a set time frame.

It doesn't happen often, but it is the ultimate check on political power, and people there I think tend to be more informed on the issues rather than simply vote onlong party lines and live with it. They elect folk to do a job, but can still have their say when that gov goes off the rails.... not at an election 3 years later or having to compromise your dislike on one issue to keep a guy in to do something else on two other issues you like.

http://direct-democracy.geschichte-schweiz.ch/

Also they do frequent referendums on contentious issues, or where they find there might be deadlocked, imagine with your present healthcare debates... I think your townhalls are really a joke, circuses where some semi informed lunatics scream and rant...

What if during your next civil election you also marked your ballot to decide whether the government should pursue a public option...

A simple question, no lobbists bribing, no party ideology, no talking heads screaming... just establish a mandate, then write the policy.

since the Swiss have had this system since 1291, I'm sure they have had their problems, but they have had alot of time to work them out too.



Either your with the terrorists, or ... your with the terrorists


Lets party like its 1939

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Tuesday, November 24, 2009 2:03 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:


This is a similar position to the position of Israel: Hamas is pretty dead set on a Palestinian State, but willing to recognizing Israel in exchange. By contrast, Islamic Jihad would stop at nothing to see Israel destroyed, IIRC. So logically, Israel would oppose Islamic Jihad more, right? Well, then there's the matter of pratical reality: There's a lot of support for Hamas, and they might succeed, and Israel really doesn't want that. Islamic Jihad is far more Pie in the Sky and will never ever get what it wants. So regardless of intentions, Hamas is a far greater threat, which is why Israel was blaming Hamas for everything even before they came to power: Because they knew they were a threat.



Good analogy.

I notice we tend to blame an awful lot of stuff on "Al Qaeda In Iraq", too, which is ironic, since there never was such an entity until AFTER we invaded Iraq in an effort to "stabilize" it. :) Now it seems AQI are just EVERYWHERE over there. So one has to conclude one of two things: Either we're exaggerating their presence (making shit up, go figure), or we've given them the best recruiting tool since Pearl Harbor.

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Wednesday, November 25, 2009 12:47 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:


This is a similar position to the position of Israel: Hamas is pretty dead set on a Palestinian State, but willing to recognizing Israel in exchange.



I notice we tend to blame an awful lot of stuff on "Al Qaeda In Iraq", too, which is ironic, since there never was such an entity until AFTER we invaded Iraq in an effort to "stabilize" it. :) Now it seems AQI are just EVERYWHERE over there. So one has to conclude one of two things: Either we're exaggerating their presence (making shit up, go figure), or we've given them the best recruiting tool since Pearl Harbor.



Hamas Was Founded by Mossad
www.wariscrime.com/2008/12/29/news/hamas-was-founded-by-mossad/

Quote:

"'Al-Qaida', literally "THE DATABASE", was originally the computer file of the thousands of mujahideen who were recruited and trained with help from the CIA to defeat the (Jewish/Atheist Communist) Russians."
-Robin Cook, London Guardian, "Former Blair Minister Points Out Al-Qaeda CIA Ties," July 9, 2005 (assassinated while walking)

"'Al Qaeda' is NOT an organization. Al Qaeda is a way of working ... but this has the hallmark of that approach."
-Queen Tony BLiar, Fox News, "Cops: London Attacks Were Homicide Blasts," July 15, 2005

Terrorism.
The act of terrorizing, or state of being terrorized;
a mode of government by terror or intimidation.
-Webster Dictionary, 1913




The Greatest Movie Ever Made

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Wednesday, November 25, 2009 12:52 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Quote:

Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
Quote:

Where is the check to Karzai in this system ?

If it was a parliamentary system, the checks are automatic...



Ah, you were speaking about Karzai. I think the main problem here is corruption, and I've also heard that some of the vote smudging here is actually a common practice in the Middle East.

Now, I want to be clear: that doesn't make it RIGHT.

But the system us Americans set up in Afghanistan...




Heroin production up 12,000% after US/UK invasion... MISSION ACCOMPLICED!



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Wednesday, November 25, 2009 4:17 PM

DREAMTROVE


Quote:

Pirate News:
Neither branch actually reads nor writes the laws they pass, nor could they understand the law if they tried to read it.



John, you really nailed it on the head. I'd go so far as to say that they are actively selected for that inability.


ETA: Mike,

The Al Qaeda thing is all about labelling. We need to identify an enemy not actually harm us, and then call anything we hit that enemy.

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Thursday, November 26, 2009 4:59 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Quote:

Originally posted by dreamtrove:

Quote:

Pirate News:
Neither branch actually reads nor writes the laws they pass, nor could they understand the law if they tried to read it.



John, you really nailed it on the head. I'd go so far as to say that they are actively selected for that inability.



A skilled lawyer or pro se ought to be able to argue in court that such laws are void, due to lack of representation or fraud.

Funny thing is, 75% of judges in USA are NOT licensed lawyers, never passed a bar exam, never attended law college, and many cannot even read, according to NY Times.
http://piratenews-tv.blogspot.com/2009/03/constitutional-right-to-trav
el-without.html


Politicians (including judges) seem more interested in booze, drugs, bribes and whores, than actually showing up for work.

Most legislation appears to be passed when 90% of legislators are not present, with politicians making multiple votes per person, caught on video:



The "Federal" Reserve Bank Act was "passed" during Christmas vacation in Congress, at midnight, with only 3 Congresscrooks actually voting on it. That's got FRAUD written all over it, that reuslted in ALL fed income taxes paid to private foregn bankers, with NONE of income taxes used to actually run the govt. ALL fed govt operations are run by borrowed money, 25% is loaned from Communist China.
www.freedomtofascism.com (documentary by a good jew, founder of Libertarian and Constitution Parties)

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