"Alleged" my ass--but wouldn't it just be a BALL if this leads to the kind of inquiry we haven't been able to get? The mere thought has me drooling![qu..."/>

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

UK ordered to publish details of alleged U.S. torture

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Thursday, February 11, 2010 07:42
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 1304
PAGE 1 of 1

Wednesday, February 10, 2010 10:37 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


"Alleged" my ass--but wouldn't it just be a BALL if this leads to the kind of inquiry we haven't been able to get? The mere thought has me drooling!
Quote:

The British government was ordered to publish previously secret information Wednesday about the alleged torture of a former British detainee by U.S. authorities.

The information shows Britain was aware of allegations that UK resident Binyam Mohamed was being tortured while in U.S. custody after his arrest in Pakistan in 2002.

Britain had sought to keep the information secret, claiming that revealing it would have harmed its relationship with the United States. But Britain's Court of Appeals ruled that the seven paragraphs about Mohamed, who was later moved to the U.S. prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, should be released.

The paragraphs say Mohamed, 31, was subjected to continuous sleep deprivation along with threats "at some stage during that further interview process by the United States authorities."

"His fears of being removed from United States custody and 'disappearing' were played upon," the newly released information said.

Mohamed was kept under self-harm observation and "the interviews were having a marked effect on him and causing him significant mental stress and suffering," the paragraphs say.

"Although it is not necessary for us to categorize the treatment reported, it could readily be contended to be at the very least cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment by the United States authorities," the paragraphs say.

Mohamed spent seven years in U.S. custody before returning to Britain in February 2009, after all charges against him were dropped.

After Mohamed's arrest in Pakistan, he was moved to Morocco, where he underwent interrogation by U.S. authorities, Reprieve, a legal charity that has taken on Mohamed's case, said.

The British government knew Mohamed was in Morocco and that the U.S. authorities were interrogating him, Reprieve said.

"During his time in Morocco, Binyam was subject to really medieval torture -- among other horrors, a razor blade was regularly taken to his genitals," Reprieve said.

After 18 months in Morocco, Mohamed was taken to a prison in Afghanistan, where he was kept in total darkness and tortured for a further six months before being taken to Guantanamo Bay, Reprieve said. He remained there for four years.

Mohamed has previously said the "dark prison" in Afghanistan resembled a medieval dungeon with loud music and noise 24 hours a day.

"It was pitch black, no lights on in the rooms for most of the time," he has said. "They hung me up for two days. My legs had swollen. My wrists and hands had gone numb. There was loud music, Slim Shady (by Eminem) and Dr. Dre for 20 days. Then they changed the sounds to horrible ghost laughter and Halloween sounds.

"At one point, I was chained to the rails for a fortnight. The CIA worked on people, including me, day and night. Plenty lost their minds. I could hear people knocking their heads against the walls and the doors, screaming their heads off," he said.

The current case by Reprieve began in 2008, after Mohamed had returned to Britain and was cleared of all charges.

Reprieve went to court on Mohamed's behalf, claiming that Britain had been "mixed up" in his treatment. It asked the British government to disclose all correspondence it had with the United States about his detention and interrogation, saying they would be vital to his defense.

The British government initially refused to disclose the information, but after Reprieve sued, the government released a redacted document in August 2008.

Britain's High Court, which had seen the redacted details, told the media in October 2008 to sue for the details to be published. The end result of that judgment is the seven paragraphs released by the British government Wednesday.

British Foreign Secretary David Miliband said it was disclosing the information because it had already been put into the public domain by the decision of a U.S. court in another case.

"At the heart of this case was the principle that if a country shares intelligence with another, that country must agree before its intelligence is released," Miliband said in a statement. "This 'control principle' is essential to the intelligence relationship between Britain and the U.S. The Government fought the case to preserve this principle, and today's judgment upholds it. It agreed that the control principle is integral to intelligence sharing."

There was no immediate reaction to the release from U.S. officials.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/02/10/britain.us.torture/index.ht
ml





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Wednesday, February 10, 2010 10:44 AM

CHRISISALL


Niki, why do you hate "Enhanced Interrogation Techniques?"
EIT's are why you are not a pile of dead radioactive flesh at this moment!
EIT's make the world a safer place!
EIT's keep psychos OFF the street & working IN the off-shore interrogation facilities where they belong!


The laughing Chrisisall

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Wednesday, February 10, 2010 10:46 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Niki2 wrote:
Wednesday, February 10, 2010 10:37
"Alleged" my ass--but wouldn't it just be a BALL if this leads to the kind of inquiry we haven't been able to get? The mere thought has me drooling!



Should be the shortest list since
Great Jewish Athletes in History




The T.Rex they call JANE!


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Wednesday, February 10, 2010 10:51 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


And now we know another nasty thing about Rap.

Preserved for posterity.
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Niki2 wrote:
Wednesday, February 10, 2010 10:37
"Alleged" my ass--but wouldn't it just be a BALL if this leads to the kind of inquiry we haven't been able to get? The mere thought has me drooling!



Should be the shortest list since
Great Jewish Athletes in History




***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Wednesday, February 10, 2010 11:00 AM

GINOBIFFARONI


'I thought he was a terrorist'

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7885310.stm

Binyam Mohamed's US military lawyer has her monthly appointment to see him at Guantanamo Bay later this month.

But Lieutenant Colonel Yvonne Bradley says of the last British resident held by the US at its Cuban base: "I hope never to see him again in Guantanamo."


Lt-Col Yvonne Bradley
The one person who has always told me a consistent account of what happened has been Binyam
Lt Col Yvonne Bradley

She is speaking in London after the British government said UK officials and a Metropolitan Police doctor would see him.

"My biggest fear is that I have to walk back into that cell at Guantanamo and explain to Mr Mohamed why he's still sitting there," she told the BBC.

Looking back to her first meeting with him she said: "I don't know who was more scared.

"You have to realise, I'm a soldier, I'd heard Rumsfeld... I was a true believer. I thought 'This guy's a terrorist; we're going to give him a fair trial'.

"I had done some heavy hitting criminal work" she points out, dealing with convicted killers, but she was "concerned, walking into a cell with someone that someone had told me was a terrorist, the worst of the worst, and I truly believed that."

Binyam Mohamed, she adds, had a right to feel worse: "I walk in there and say I'm your attorney; you've got no say in this... and my big boss is George Bush who put you in here."

"But I can tell you after that first meeting with Mr Mohamed I walked out of that cell - and I was thinking: 'What are we doing?' - because if Binyam Mohamed is the worst of the worst that we are trying, we have the wrong people.

"He came over quiet and credible. I've represented many individuals before and they always say they're innocent...

"But Binyam wasn't like that. Everything he said, the way he said it, his body language. I could tell he was concerned and distanced from me because he didn't know if this was part of a disturbing game of interrogators.

Air Force service

"The one person who has always told me a consistent account of what happened has been Binyam," she insists. His gives detailed accounts of his ordeal.

Of his "rendition" flights, for instance, he gave details which could be verified, says Lt Col Bradley, adding: "You can't make that stuff up."

After six years as a regular officer in the judge-advocate general's branch of the US Air Force, Lt Col Bradley worked for a further seven years for an organisation providing legal representation to death row inmates.

She now has a law practice near Philadelphia, but that is on hold, she says, while she pursues Mr Mohamed's case.

A reserve US Air Force officer, she volunteered following an appeal for military lawyers to take up the cases of Guantanamo detainees in 2005.

Lt-Col Yvonne Bradley
Lt Col Bradley is a US air force reserve officer

When she first saw him, he was already in poor condition, after years in Guantanamo and a period during which he was held incommunicado, when he says he was tortured and ill-treated in Pakistan, Morocco and Afghanistan.

Now, says Lt Col Bradley, his condition is critical.

He is on hunger strike in protest at the failure of the Americans to release him, though terrorism charges against him have been dropped.

If Binyam Mohamed is not "the worst of the worst" as she originally feared, she says Guantanamo is easily the worst prison she has ever seen - and she has visited many.

"I've done criminal work for 20 years. I've been on death row. I've been in local prisons, state prisons, federal prisons... I've never come across the conditions, the attitude, the way they handle anything at Guantanamo Bay."

Soiled hands

Normally in prisons the rules are established and well known, she says. But in three years of going to Guantanamo "I don't think I've ever had a visit where any procedure, any policy was ever the same."

She speaks of one occasion when her client came to a meeting with her, with his hands soiled with excrement.

A guard bowed his head and murmured: "'Ma'am, your client has been living in such conditions for weeks'," she says. "And that's the only comment I ever got."

Guantanamo Bay prison camp (7 December 2006)
Guantanamo is the worst jail lawyer Yvonne Bradley has ever seen

If he is released, will there still be reckonings to be paid? Mr Mohamed's ordeal, says his lawyer, his reported "rendition" by the CIA from Pakistan to Morocco and back the Afghanistan, and the treatment he suffered, are "the issue that's not going to go away".

"Someday, somebody is going to have to be open and honest about it," she says.

What about Britain? Mr Mohamed was questioned by British intelligence and security officials in Pakistan following his arrest in 2002. His whereabouts were apparently unknown to the British authorities for two years after that.

"Somebody should have cared about him back then," says Lt Col Bradley of the British. But of the current efforts by the British to get him released, she says: "We are thankful for that."

Of her London trip she says: "I'm extremely happy that the foreign secretary himself sat down and spoke with us."

"All Mr Mohamed wants to do is come back to the UK and lead a quiet life," she insists. "Clearly, in many conversations we have had he considers this his home - and respects it very highly. He holds it in high esteem. That's why it's such a disappointment that he's still there."



You wonder how many didn't survive to tell their story ?



Either you Are with the terrorists, or ... you Are with the terrorists

Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers.
What you do today, might Burn Your Ass Tomorrow"

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Wednesday, February 10, 2010 11:03 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Ohmygawd...does he really believe that shit??? Wow...someone I reeely don't know, and definitely put in the same category as Wulf, for a different reason:

"He doesn't live in the real world; he doesn't live in the real world."

What IS he doing here with the sane and semi-sane?



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Wednesday, February 10, 2010 11:15 AM

GINOBIFFARONI


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Ohmygawd...does he really believe that shit??? Wow...someone I reeely don't know, and definitely put in the same category as Wulf, for a different reason:

"He doesn't live in the real world; he doesn't live in the real world."

What IS he doing here with the sane and semi-sane?





please be more specific ?

are you talking about me ?

or the Rappy Reject ?



Either you Are with the terrorists, or ... you Are with the terrorists

Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers.
What you do today, might Burn Your Ass Tomorrow"

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Wednesday, February 10, 2010 11:18 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Oh good gawd, darlin', not YOU--you should know me better by now; we agree more than we disagree, and you're almost always sensible!

No, him:
Quote:

Should be the shortest list since
Great Jewish Athletes in History

Totally



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Wednesday, February 10, 2010 11:28 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


I was wondering about the 'worst of the worst'.

The ones who can't be tried (THANKS ! president Bush, for making us safe from justice !) but who, we are told, can't be released.

Now I'm thinking - if we released them what's the worst that could happen ? A handful of 'terrists' get let loose on the planet to add to the hundreds - maybe thousands - extra that Bush created through his policies. Is that it ? Really ???

Now I am thinking that we are keeping them under wraps for political reasons. Criminally motivated reasons. Something other than terrorism, anyway.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Wednesday, February 10, 2010 11:33 AM

GINOBIFFARONI


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Oh good gawd, darlin', not YOU--you should know me better by now; we agree more than we disagree, and you're almost always sensible!

No, him:
Quote:

Should be the shortest list since
Great Jewish Athletes in History

Totally





But it is quite the list...

even just the American ones

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jewish_American_sportspeople



Either you Are with the terrorists, or ... you Are with the terrorists

Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers.
What you do today, might Burn Your Ass Tomorrow"

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Wednesday, February 10, 2010 11:40 AM

GINOBIFFARONI


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
I was wondering about the 'worst of the worst'.

The ones who can't be tried (THANKS ! president Bush, for making us safe from justice !) but who, we are told, can't be released.

Now I'm thinking - if we released them what's the worst that could happen ? A handful of 'terrists' get let loose on the planet to add to the hundreds - maybe thousands - extra that Bush created through his policies. Is that it ? Really ???

Now I am thinking that we are keeping them under wraps for political reasons. Criminally motivated reasons. Something other than terrorism, anyway.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.




Not to object to you blaming Bush2, but Obama, Clinton, Bush1, Reagan, and even before helped to create this mess through their foreign policies.

And it is the same groups of advisors, lobbyists, paymasters, etc who were behind them

CFR = Worst of the Worst ?

Top Contender Anyway

video if anyone is interested







Either you Are with the terrorists, or ... you Are with the terrorists

Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers.
What you do today, might Burn Your Ass Tomorrow"

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Wednesday, February 10, 2010 11:47 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
And now we know another nasty thing about Rap.

Preserved for posterity.



What, no sense of humor ? I'm fairly certain that Jackie Mason has used that line. Maybe it was Don Rickles ? Or it might have been Jerry Lewis, or Seinfeld? ... point is, it's funny. There aren't a long list of Jewish sports heroes. One of my personal favorites, though, Mark Spitz, is still held in high regard.


Maybe a more accurate title - Great Jewish Athletes in American Football History ?




The T.Rex they call JANE!


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Wednesday, February 10, 2010 11:48 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Oh, I realize that long-term US policies - especially towards our favorite pupil in the mideast (besides Hussein) - rightfully earned us enemies. But when Clinton had Sheik Omar Abdel-Rahman tried - and convicted - for the first bombing of the WTC, world response was a muted yawn. Justice WAS carried out.

Bush part deux went out of his way to inflame opinion, and needlessly created many many more enemies.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Wednesday, February 10, 2010 11:50 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Rap is a self-hating Jew !


What the matter Rap ? Can't take a joke ?


***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Wednesday, February 10, 2010 11:57 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
Rap is a self-hating Jew !


What the matter Rap ? Can't take a joke ?


***************************************************************

Silence is consent.



Just don't tell that Piratenews character.



The T.Rex they call JANE!


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Wednesday, February 10, 2010 11:58 AM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Should be the shortest list since
Great Jewish Athletes in History



I don't get it.

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Wednesday, February 10, 2010 12:05 PM

GINOBIFFARONI


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
Quote:

Should be the shortest list since
Great Jewish Athletes in History



I don't get it.



The list is quite extensive

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jewish_American_sportspeople


I can only guess he means that if someone started to investigate American torturers, they would be surprised to see the number and diversity involved.




Either you Are with the terrorists, or ... you Are with the terrorists

Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers.
What you do today, might Burn Your Ass Tomorrow"

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Wednesday, February 10, 2010 1:14 PM

GINOBIFFARONI


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
Oh, I realize that long-term US policies - especially towards our favorite pupil in the mideast (besides Hussein) - rightfully earned us enemies. But when Clinton had Sheik Omar Abdel-Rahman tried - and convicted - for the first bombing of the WTC, world response was a muted yawn. Justice WAS carried out.

Bush part deux went out of his way to inflame opinion, and needlessly created many many more enemies.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.



Kinda my point, Rahman was arrested, imprisoned without charge and tortured by the Egyptian government because he was a outspoken critic of that government, whose intelligence services ( who arrested him ) were being trained and funded by the US...

While this was done under Cartier and Reagan, the backlash did not come until Clinton... mind you those policys remain in effect today.

" world response was a muted yawn "

except in the Muslim world, where many considered his attempt to strike back at the US whom he had legitimate grievances against a just action and his imprisonment has become a rallying point for Islamic militants around the world, including Al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden.

" Justice WAS carried out "

but only from the American perspective, which leads to the root of the problem

1. Should the US be involved in the internal security matters of foreign countrys ? This does tend to limit these countrys from ridding themselves of tyrants and one party rule. ?

2. Should there exist some mechanism of international law that one could take their grievances to, giving a way other than violence to find resolution ?


Sure Bush two stoked the fire, but there were a great many embers waiting to flare up long before he he was in charge.





Either you Are with the terrorists, or ... you Are with the terrorists

Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers.
What you do today, might Burn Your Ass Tomorrow"

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Wednesday, February 10, 2010 2:33 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Aw hell, you think THAT is bad ?

Look up the case of Dr. Aafia Siddiqui.

Seriously, freakin google it, don't take my word.

Fair warning though, that's not a real deep rabbithole, but it is a dark one, and wrappin your mind around it won't be easy nor pleasant, which is why I didn't direct post it here.

-F

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Wednesday, February 10, 2010 2:52 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:


Should be the shortest list since
Great Jewish Athletes in History





That's actually not as short a list as you might think.

http://www.jewishsports.org/jewishsports/inductees.asp

Do you ever actually THINK before you spew your crap all over the screen? Do you have Touret's of the keyboard? Were you kicked in the head a lot as a child?



Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Wednesday, February 10, 2010 3:03 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Hey Gino

I spend a lot of time at foreign news sources. I don't recall major protest about Rahman's trial, verdict and incarceration. YES - extremists were and are pissed. But the general world opinion, even the Muslim world opinion, didn't seem to share that feeling.

Egypt is the other major recipient of US foreign aid outside of Israel. And apparently the US seems to think that billions spent in Egypt is just not quite enough to buy real friendship. Plus in general the US loves anyone who can guarantee pro-US results - not quite a recipe for democracy. So despite that the CIA World Factbook lists Egypt as a democracy, it's a democracy in name only. 'Freedom's just another word ...' apparently.

Somewhere SignyM posted a list of all the dictators the US either installed or aided. It was quite impressive.

I'm not disputing that decades of US policy have got the US a long list of people with a rightful grudge.

But not since the 50s has a president taken such extreme measures to meddle in another country as did Bush. And what Bush did was not just keep the people who aready hated the US at a nice simmer. Nope, he recruited many more, and alienated even allies. That was my point. The extreme level of what he did.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Wednesday, February 10, 2010 3:38 PM

GINOBIFFARONI


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
Hey Gino

I spend a lot of time at foreign news sources. I don't recall major protest about Rahman's trial, verdict and incarceration. YES - extremists were and are pissed. But the general world opinion, even the Muslim world opinion, didn't seem to share that feeling.

Egypt is the other major recipient of US foreign aid outside of Israel. And apparently the US seems to think that billions spent in Egypt is just not quite enough to buy real friendship. Plus in general the US loves anyone who can guarantee pro-US results - not quite a recipe for democracy. So despite that the CIA World Factbook lists Egypt as a democracy, it's a democracy in name only. 'Freedom's just another word ...' apparently.

Somewhere SignyM posted a list of all the dictators the US either installed or aided. It was quite impressive.

I'm not disputing that decades of US policy have got the US a long list of people with a rightful grudge.

But not since the 50s has a president taken such extreme measures to meddle in another country as did Bush. And what Bush did was not just keep the people who aready hated the US at a nice simmer. Nope, he recruited many more, and alienated even allies. That was my point. The extreme level of what he did.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.



I am not defending Bush at all, just saying he is not alone by far

Say if all US Presidents are like home invader robbers

Bush would be the one that both robbed you, and peed on your favorite rug


( The Big Lebowski if you didn't get it )

The Dude: Walter, what is the point? Look, we all know who is at fault here, what the fuck are you talking about?
Walter Sobchak: Huh? No, what the fuck are you... I'm not... We're talking about unchecked aggression here, dude.
Donny: What the fuck is he talking about?
The Dude: My rug.
Walter Sobchak: Forget it, Donny, you're out of your element!
The Dude: Walter, the chinaman who peed on my rug, I can't go give him a bill, so what the fuck are you talking about?
Walter Sobchak: What the fuck are you talking about? The chinaman is not the issue here, Dude. I'm talking about drawing a line in the sand, Dude. Across this line, you DO NOT... Also, Dude, chinaman is not the preferred nomenclature. Asian-American, please

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Wednesday, February 10, 2010 8:14 PM

GINOBIFFARONI


Well you can't be a co-conspirator anymore if your going to talk about it !!


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8509787.stm

" But Ben LaBolt, a spokesman for President Barack Obama, said: "We're deeply disappointed with the court's judgment because we shared this information in confidence and with certain expectations.

"As we warned, the court's judgment will complicate the confidentiality of our intelligence-sharing relationship with the UK, and it will have to factor into our decision-making going forward." "



" Denis Blair, the US Director of National Intelligence, said: "The decision by a United Kingdom court to release classified information provided by the United States is not helpful, and we deeply regret it. "


It sure does sound like criminals falling out...

Think Obama is going to have someone whacked




Either you Are with the terrorists, or ... you Are with the terrorists

Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers.
What you do today, might Burn Your Ass Tomorrow"

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Thursday, February 11, 2010 6:17 AM

BYTEMITE


Gino: God, that's a good movie. Have you ever seen the Shakespeare screen play adaption? HILARIOUS.

To the topic: Win one for the people of the world versus government cover-ups. I'm just ashamed America doesn't seem to be willing to drag it's own criminals out into the light.

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Thursday, February 11, 2010 6:47 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

Just don't tell that Piratenews character.



Quote:

Bush would be the one that both robbed you, and peed on your favorite rug.


Excellent comebacks, both!



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Thursday, February 11, 2010 7:42 AM

MINCINGBEAST


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:



Should be the shortest list since
Great Jewish Athletes in History





How charming.

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