REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

The Cowardly Hypocrisy Of RiverLove

POSTED BY: RIVERLOVE
UPDATED: Monday, April 5, 2010 12:05
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 5881
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Friday, April 2, 2010 2:46 AM

RIVERLOVE


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:

Ah, so now nobody here is allowed to question you, eh? Good to know, all-powerful one.


The original post I put up was complete. Pictures of Bush protesters with their threatening signs, and a few articles about attacks against Repub interests. Nothing more, nothing less. It was you and your pals that went gaga over it. Then the obtuse and snarky questions and comments started. I answered them for a long while. But one guy (me) cannot make every irate Lib happy and you know it.

Quote:

So now you've decided that asking you for your evidence that I've ever called you a drunken, death-loving cunt (YOUR claim, YOUR words, not mine) is insulting and harassing you? Seems you're more than willing to throw around the insults.

Actually you've called me much worse things in the past. Since when do YOU care about the insults you hurl at posters you don't like?

Quote:

Instead of providing the evidence to back up your claims, now you resort to more insults. When you should be retracting your claims and apologizing for lying, you instead decide to issue proclamations that nobody here is smart enough to talk to you or question your authority.

I don't need you to tell me what to do guy. When Signy admitted she was the one that had called me a dlc, I posted that it was easy for me to have gotten the author wrong at the time. Were you 'specting some sort of apology or something? Cold day in hell before that occurs.
Quote:

That's cute, it really is.

I know.




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Friday, April 2, 2010 2:48 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


The Left has no answer for their actions. All they can do is lash out with more vitriol and hate.

It's what they do. It's who they are.

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Friday, April 2, 2010 2:55 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURAPTOR:
The Left has no answer for their actions. All they can do is lash out with more vitriol and hate.

It's what they do. It's who they are.



So you're saying RL is a lefty then?


QED






"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions


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Friday, April 2, 2010 3:01 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

By the way, you've admitted you're a total loser in life, just a lowly shipping clerk right? What makes you think you can question, insult or harrass me? Go back to the dock boy. There's a truck ready to be unloaded.


By the way, it's nice to see how everyone on the right feels about good, honest, hard-working people. Seems anyone who has a job in industry is , in RL's own words, a "total loser in life", unqualified to question her. Didn't realize you hated the employed so much, RL.




"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions


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Friday, April 2, 2010 3:04 AM

RIVERLOVE


Auraptor,

Yes, the Libs are all mostly immature little twitchy shits who exist in a fantasy world. They seek to curtail opposing views by either being nasty or purposefully obtuse. And then they hope to see you cater to their gamesmanship. Poor Kwicky just couldn't wait to type something right back at you in a minute. His world might have come crashing down unless he did that. If it weren't so sad, it might be funny. Keep up your good work.

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Friday, April 2, 2010 3:08 AM

RIVERLOVE


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

By the way, you've admitted you're a total loser in life, just a lowly shipping clerk right? What makes you think you can question, insult or harrass me? Go back to the dock boy. There's a truck ready to be unloaded.


By the way, it's nice to see how everyone on the right feels about good, honest, hard-working people. Seems anyone who has a job in industry is , in RL's own words, a "total loser in life", unqualified to question her. Didn't realize you hated the employed so much, RL.




"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions



You forced that out of me with your own cruelty. Don't blame me for it. I was quite reserved and respectful yesterday to all those that sought to insult or obtusively harrass me. I think I lost it once or twice and used profanity yesterday, but I'll stand by the rest with a clear conscience. And for the record, I regret trying to insult you back.

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Friday, April 2, 2010 3:09 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Riverlove:
Auraptor,

Yes, the Libs are all mostly immature little twitchy shits who exist in a fantasy world. They seek to curtail opposing views by either being nasty or purposefully obtuse.



As you've sought repeatedly to curtail MY views by being nasty and obtuse, or by just making shit up and claiming that I said it. Right?

Quote:


And then they hope to see you cater to their gamesmanship.



Or play by the same rules you want to hold others to. But that seems to be asking too much from your kind, who think the rules don't apply to them.

Quote:


Poor Kwicky just couldn't wait to type something right back at you in a minute. His world might have come crashing down unless he did that. If it weren't so sad, it might be funny. Keep up your good work.



Now THAT is funny!




"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions


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Friday, April 2, 2010 3:13 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Riverlove:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

By the way, you've admitted you're a total loser in life, just a lowly shipping clerk right? What makes you think you can question, insult or harrass me? Go back to the dock boy. There's a truck ready to be unloaded.


By the way, it's nice to see how everyone on the right feels about good, honest, hard-working people. Seems anyone who has a job in industry is , in RL's own words, a "total loser in life", unqualified to question her. Didn't realize you hated the employed so much, RL.




"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions



You forced that out of me with your own cruelty. Don't blame me for it. I can give it out as good as I can take it. I was quite reserved and respectful yesterday to all those that sought to insult or obtusively harrass me. I think I lost it once or twice and used profanity, but I'll stand by the rest with a clear conscience.




Reeeaaaalllllyyyy. I "forced that out of" you, huh? By asking you to provide evidence for what you claimed? Asking you for truth results in you being forced into invective-laden hatred of average working Americans? You find people asking for clarification to be "cruel"? Really?

I think you lost it more than once or twice, really. And if you can claim that I called you a drunken, death-loving cunt when you know full well that such a thing never happened, and you say you have a clear conscience about it, then I feel sorry for you.




"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions


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Friday, April 2, 2010 3:19 AM

MAL4PREZ


See what happened when Operation Ignore breaks down Kwicko? Rappy/Riverlove get what they want: pages and pages of name-calling. It's sad.

I can't wait till we get the new fff website so we can ignore all these trolls and their sock puppets. Sheesh.


-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Friday, April 2, 2010 3:23 AM

RIVERLOVE


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:

....then I feel sorry for you.



OK, but just don't lose too much sleep over it. You may miss a juicy opportunity to attack another poster. And then where would ya be?

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Friday, April 2, 2010 5:30 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


By now we all know RL has very little to say aside from smear, innuendo, half-truths, lies, and invective-laden posts. Facts? Insight? Not so much.

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Friday, April 2, 2010 6:25 AM

RIVERLOVE


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
By now we all know RL has very little to say aside from smear, innuendo, half-truths, lies, and invective-laden posts. Facts? Insight? Not so much.


Who is "we"? You mean the group-think douches who all say the same things as you?

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Friday, April 2, 2010 6:57 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


The opening line from your original post, which you seem so proud of:

Quote:

Democrats and their liberal media allies have sunk so low as to now be demonizing average working Americans...


And then you followed it up later when I questioned you on your lies by hurling THIS:

Quote:

By the way, you've admitted you're a total loser in life, just a lowly shipping clerk right? What makes you think you can question, insult or harrass me? Go back to the dock boy. There's a truck ready to be unloaded.


I have to ask, WHO here is demonizing average working Americans, exactly? Me and the rest of my "liberal" cohorts, or you, who flat-out called warehouse, manufacturing, and production workers "lowly" and "total losers in life", and questioned how any of us could have the temerity, gall, or cajones to question you?

Why do you hate working people?

Why do you insist that I called you a drunken death-loving cunt, and then run away and try to hide when called on your blatant lies? And why then do you claim that even if you grossly misled people about who said what, and when they said it, you owe no apologies to anybody? Seems pretty desperate and pathetic...




"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions


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Friday, April 2, 2010 7:09 AM

RIVERLOVE


I take back my regret from earlier today. You do indeed belong on the dock with the rest of the HS dropouts.

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Friday, April 2, 2010 7:11 AM

MINCINGBEAST


Riverlove is a damsel in distress. Where is my white knight gear? I want to come to her aid, and the only thing that will help, is if I become a conservative. So I am presently listening to Rush, and I am totally confused. This conservative stuff hurts.


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Friday, April 2, 2010 7:14 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by mincingbeast:
Riverlove is a damsel in distress. Where is my white knight gear? I want to come to her aid, and the only thing that will help, is if I become a conservative. So I am presently listening to Rush, and I am totally confused. This conservative stuff hurts.





When you say you're listening to Rush, you mean the talk-radio guy, not the Canadian prog-rock trio, right?




"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions


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Friday, April 2, 2010 7:21 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Riverlove:
I take back my regret from earlier today. You do indeed belong on the dock with the rest of the HS dropouts.



What regret? You've expressed none. You should probably feel shame more than regret, because you've had your ass handed to you time and time again by one of those "HS drop-outs" you think so little of.

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Friday, April 2, 2010 7:25 AM

MINCINGBEAST


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by mincingbeast:
Riverlove is a damsel in distress. Where is my white knight gear? I want to come to her aid, and the only thing that will help, is if I become a conservative. So I am presently listening to Rush, and I am totally confused. This conservative stuff hurts.





When you say you're listening to Rush, you mean the talk-radio guy, not the Canadian prog-rock trio, right?




"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions




limbaugh.

but will that prog rock stuff help make me conservative? if so...i might try it...but if listening to geddy lee's voice is the only thing that can make me conservative, i give up! is suspect rush's music lowers testosterone levels.

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Friday, April 2, 2010 8:49 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

the fact that you gotta ask questions just shows how ignorant you are!
Oh gawd, oh gawd, please stop! There it is folks, in black and white for all to see: THIS is the audience of FauxNews, who think asking questions is a sign of stupidity...and there goes your hope that any of them will ever bother to question anything. Bingo, and thank you for my first guffaw of the day!

The other one made me giggle, too:
Quote:

your stupid, inane questions with a response?
Isn’t it wonderful, how dismissing actual questions works so well when you give them dunderheaded adjectives? Ahh, me, my day has started off with a laugh or two, I’m ever so grateful.
Quote:

Nothing better than some goofy wingnut starting a thread to attack libruls, and finding themselves faced with questions they can't bring themselves to answer.
Damned straight, Story. Remember that book I did a couple of threads on, “The Authoritarians”? Several thought it was seriously biased toward the left, but if you read here enough, you see that those on the right absolutely reflect to a T what was postulated there:
Quote:

Illogical Thinking: A group of students from Peninsula College were given various memory and inference tests. For example, they listened to a tape of two lawyers debating a school segregation case on a McNeil/Lehrer News Hour program. It was found that High RWAs indeed had more trouble remembering details of the material they’d encountered, and they made more incorrect inferences on a reasoning test than others usually did. Overall, the authoritarians had lots of trouble simply thinking straight.

Intrigued, I gave the inferences test that Mary Wegmann had used to two large samples of students at my university. In both studies high RWAs went down in flames more than others did. They particularly had trouble figuring out that an inference or deduction was wrong. To illustrate, suppose they had gotten the following syllogism:

All fish live in the sea.
Sharks live in the sea..
Therefore, sharks are fish.

The conclusion does not follow, but high RWAs would be more likely to say the reasoning is correct than most people would. If you ask them why it seems right, they would likely tell you, “Because sharks are fish.” In other words, they thought the reasoning was sound because they agreed with the last statement. If the conclusion is right, they figure, then the reasoning must have been right. Or to put it another way, they don’t “get it” that the reasoning matters--especially on a reasoning test.

Not only do authoritarian followers uncritically accept conclusions that support their beliefs, they have a problem with evidence in general. They do not in general have a very critical outlook on anything unless the authorities in their lives have condemned it for them. Then they can be extremely critical.

Authoritarians’ ideas are poorly integrated with one another. It’s as if each idea is stored in a file that can be called up and used when the authoritarian wishes, even though another of his ideas--stored in a different file-- basically contradicts it. We all have some inconsistencies in our thinking, but authoritarians can stupify you with the inconsistency of their ideas. Thus they may say they are proud to live in a country that guarantees freedom of speech, but another file holds, “My country, love it or leave it.” The ideas were copied from trusted sources, often as sayings, but the authoritarian has never “merged files” to see how well they all fit together.

It’s easy to find authoritarians endorsing inconsistent ideas. Just present slogans and appeals to homey values, and then present slogans and bromides that invoke opposite values. The yea-saying authoritarian follower is likely to agree with all of them. They don’t seem to scan for self-consistency as much as most people do. Similarly they tended to agree with “A government should allow total freedom of expression, even it if threatens law and order” and “A government should only allow freedom of expression so long as it does not threaten law and order.”

When your ideas live independent lives from one another it is pretty easy to use double standards in your judgments. You simply call up the idea that will justify (afterwards) what you’ve decided to do. High RWAs seem to get up in the morning and gulp down a whole jar of “Rationalization Pills.”

When your ideas live independent lives from one another it is pretty easy to use double standards in your judgments. You simply call up the idea that will justify (afterwards) what you’ve decided to do. High RWAs seem to get up in the morning and gulp down a whole jar of “Rationalization Pills.”

Authoritarians on the other hand, spring-loaded for hostility, seem all wound up to clamp right down on lots and lots of people. So when authoritarians reproach other people who call for censorship, the reproach may be justified. But a lot of windows probably got broken in the authoritarians’ own houses when they flung that stone

Dogmatism: The Authoritarian’s Last Ditch Defense. By dogmatism I mean relatively unchangeable, unjustified certainty. And I’m certain that is right, beyond a doubt. If you want a hint as to how dogmatic you are, simply answer the items below;
The things I believe in are so completely true, I could never doubt them.
My opinions and beliefs fit together perfectly to make a crystal-clear “picture” of things.
There are no discoveries or facts that could possibly make me change my mind about the things that matter most in life.
I am absolutely certain that my ideas about the fundamental issues in life are correct.

The see how you feel about these items:

There are so many things we have not discovered yet, nobody should be absolutely certain his beliefs are right.
It is best to be open to all possibilities, and ready to reevaluate all your beliefs.
Flexibility is a real virtue in thinking, since you may well be wrong.
I am a long way from reaching final conclusions about the central issues in life.

Guess who tend to strongly agree with the first set of items, and strongly disagree with the second set. Yep, high RWAs. Which, all kidding aside, suggests they have a dogmatic streak in them a mile wide and a thousand denials deep.

Those are just a few snippets. Now, tell me, how many of our hard-core right-wingers on this site exemplify them? How many of those attributes do you see all the time—the thread about the truths surrounding FauxNews is a PRIME example, as is this one. They literally cannot answer questions put to them reasonably, so they revert to name calling and dismissal of the questions.


"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Friday, April 2, 2010 9:03 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

I'd love to see the frustration on RiverRappy's face as his screeds are so easily shot down, and he's faced with questions that might *gasp* force him to analyze his views.
Oh, come ON, Story. You really think that would ever have a snowball’s chance in hell of HAPPENING?? Remember, all pertinent questions can be brushed aside by responding with visceral name-calling. For them, in case they missed it, here’s the definition of “visceral”:
Quote:

not intellectual : instinctive, unreasoning; dealing with crude or elemental emotions
I don’t need to define it for the thinking amongst us, but I thought it might have gone over the heads of the RWAs among us.
Quote:

you've admitted you're a total loser in life, just a lowly shipping clerk right? What makes you think you can question, insult or harrass me?
There’s another example: “you’re only a shipping clerk, so you have no right to question me”. Wow, the bigotry and illogical thinking of that remark is astounding—or would be, coming from a reasoned person. As it is, it just reflects the above.
Quote:

The original post I put up was complete. Pictures of Bush protesters with their threatening signs, and a few articles about attacks against Repub interests. Nothing more, nothing less. It was you and your pals that went gaga over it.
Does or does that not reflect the thinking that “My opinions and beliefs fit together perfectly to make a crystal-clear “picture” of things”? What was put up cannot be questioned, ergo debate is not only impossible, it is not allowed. The fact that there was no proof the church was burned in protest of Palin, nor that the vandalized office had effigies of BOTH Bush and Kerry in any way invalidated it. Nor is the fact that the first two stories posted were about the same incident come would never be acknowledge. The fact that numerous right-wingers had questioned whether the perpetrators of recent violence had actually been Democrat “plants”, which was thrown back as questioning the same of the material, was totally ignored, dismissed as “lame” and “pathetic”. When the valid challenge was made that
Quote:

is it fair to say that you assert: 1) the left can't complain too loudly about idiots on the right because 2) there are idiots on the left?
It was completely ignored.

Sweetie, we didn’t go “gaga” over it, we debated it; the erroneous material was questioned. The snark
Quote:

Come on now, find a way to spin, find a way to draw one of your world-famous non-sensical moral equivalencies for me. Will ya, huh?
was an INVITATION to debate the material you had put up... Rather than defend your material and your point with proof, you started right in with the personal slurs.

Numerous people agreed that the photos on both sides represented fringe elements, and I and others agreed that we despised violence from either side. Beyond a remark to me (and I’m still confused by “emotionally compromised”; if you could clarify that statement I’d be grateful), it was never mentioned again.

Mike noted that
Quote:

I have to call them out on their utter hypocrisy when they say Tea Party people are violent and dangerous with their protest signs and their anti-Obama rhetoric
meant that if you defended those on the right who were disruptive and had foul signs, you were showing hypocrisy equal to that you condemned. That was never responded to, either. You were also asked by several about the violent rhetoric of those IN PUBLIC OFFICE currently, and that, too, was never responded to.

I try to be a good sport, yes—and fail more than I succeed. But I also expect anyone who puts up a post and specifically challenges me to debate it would present rational arguments to defend their point and respond to points made by others. I’m not missing any big picture. I’m aware that your way of “debating” (which definitely is NOT to debate) lets others ridicule you...I don’t see any anger on the left, only valid points brought up and a lot of ridicule. “Desperation” doesn’t even come into it; after finding it useless to get you to offer any valid debate points, they took to pushing your buttons and ridiculing you. I agree.

In fairness, I must compliment you on one excellent post:
Quote:

I'm no RNC lover by a long shot. I posted just yesterday my utter contempt for Chairman Steele. It's a real shame that they cannot agree to be civil in their Govt roles, but the reason is pretty obvious. They want to both sow and ride the wave of discontent with Obama and Dem's Congress all the way until November; while the Dems want to either move on to new business, or for the betterment of their fund-raising efforts, continue to accuse Repubs of being cheerleaders for anti-Obama elements out there. It's all politics. American citizens are merely the useful idiots manipulated back and forth in this endless war of ideology.
Very valid and on point. But it doesn’t change the fact that the rhetoric by the authority figures on the right HAS been filled with violence-inducing, visceral terms, while on the left it has not. And it was never addressed as far as I can see that the Republicans rejected the call for civility that the Democrats invited them to join.

Story,
Quote:

I sometimes ask myself if wingnuts are self aware enough to even grasp such a concept. And I generally answer "nope."
See my post above about right-wing authoritarian followers...there’s the answer you seek.

Mike, I’m forced to respond to
Quote:

can anyone show me all the heavily-armed anti-government LEFT-WING militias
by reminding you that in the ‘60s, there were plenty—they didn’t CALL themselves militias, but they were heavily armed and anti-government. Remember the SLA? And the others?

Hee, hee, hee; loved that post when you mentioned “morality”, Mincing. But I wouldn’t attribute it to “atheism and self-loathing”, I think “trying to live in the grey” and “guilt” might work better.

Ah, but Rue,
Quote:

I'd like to point out that this is illogical. If the Democrats want to continue to point to Republicans as racist/ inflammatory/ extreme (to better fill their coffers) then they would WANT Republicans to keep up their current behavior. They would not have offered to join with them in a mutual civility pact.
what if the Dems did so because they KNEW the Repubs would reject it, thereby making them look like the more reasonable party...don’tcha think that would help fill their coffers?

That's as far as I want to trace this thread--once it devolved into who said what about whom and when, it wasn't worth it. Besides, I think I've made my point, and there MUST be more interesting threads out there...



"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Friday, April 2, 2010 3:45 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by AURAPTOR:
The Left has no answer for their actions. All they can do is lash out with more vitriol and hate.

It's what they do. It's who they are.



And yet, not of you chickenshits can provide comparable examples of ACTIONS carried out by the left.

Because you can't.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Friday, April 2, 2010 3:48 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Riverlove:
When Signy admitted she was the one that had called me a dlc, I posted that it was easy for me to have gotten the author wrong at the time. Were you 'specting some sort of apology or something? Cold day in hell before that occurs.





Well, at least you admit you are incapable of doing the right thing when you're proven wrong.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Friday, April 2, 2010 3:56 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by AURAPTOR:
The Left has no answer for their actions. All they can do is lash out with more vitriol and hate.

It's what they do. It's who they are.

Who's the more hateful, the ones with the resentful voices, or the ones with the power to KILL innocents (Collateral Damage) in the name of punishing the truly wicked?

Live in your precious dream of a virtuous never-ending war against "THEM," AU. I know it makes you sleep better at night.
Dong ma go-se?

ETA: Barry's not "Hero" just so you understand the full scope of my anti-f**k-with-other-countries mentality.





The laughing Chrisisall


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Monday, April 5, 2010 9:36 AM

STORYMARK


Gee.... I come back after several days, and still not one of the right wingers has been able to point out violent acts committed by those on the left that are comparable to actions committed by the right.

Gee, that almost seems hypocritical.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Monday, April 5, 2010 12:05 PM

STORYMARK


Bumpity.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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