[quote]I'm a white male. I belong to a group that pretty much always been able to own land and to vote. I'm more or less from the kind that grabbed power..."/>

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

I'm White.

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Saturday, May 1, 2010 23:19
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 1970
PAGE 2 of 2

Saturday, May 1, 2010 3:54 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Damnit Chris!


Sorry.


The laughing Chrisisall


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, May 1, 2010 6:13 AM

OUT2THEBLACK

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, May 1, 2010 7:17 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Wow. I lit another bonfir. How fun.

The entire message of the thread was lost immediately as Wulf took it as an attack on his "people" and began a, might I say typically white male, rant of braggadocios proportion, and proceeded to laud "his" race's accomplishments. Predictable, but wrong in so many ways. Your people, Wulf, are the people of the world.

And any cry of "racism" on your part is irrelevant since you BEGAN this by saying your "people", meaning Caucasian, which starts with "my race is the best". Ergo, any mention of race or apparent racism is inherent in the discussion.

(Caveat: I haven't read all the responses, but this is mine to Wulf's original claims.)

So okay, for now I'll address the list, rather than the actual meaning of the article. Let’s start with the concept of “White”, or “Causasian”:
Quote:

A common definition of a "white person" is a person of primarily, or wholly, European ancestry. However, the term is sometimes used more broadly, so that it becomes similar to the concept of the Caucasian race or Caucasoid people, which includes people with ancestry from the Caucasus, Middle East, North Africa, South Asia, and parts of Central Asia, who share certain physiological characteristics and genetics with Europeans beyond skin colour.
Bear that in mind. Also:
Quote:

Though naked skin is advantageous for thermoregulation, it exposes the epidermis to destructive levels of UV radiation that can cause sunburn, skin cancer and birth defects resulting from the destruction of the essential vitamin B folate.

Consequently strong natural selection in Africa favored increased levels of melanin in the skin, once homonids moved out onto the open savanah, and the hairless Hominina ancestors of modern humans developed the required adaptation of dark skin.

Light skin color would have been a severe disadvantage to those living under the bright African sun. However, when humans left Africa for less sun-intense regions of the world, the selective pressure against lighter skin would have relaxed. This probably explains the greater variety of skin color found outside sub-Saharan Africa. Lighter skin colors may have been advantageous at higher latitudes since they allow greater penetration of the sun's UV radiation, a requirement for vitamin D synthesis. This may have led to selection for lightly pigmented skin. Scientists have identified at least 100 genes associated with pigment processing. Though African populations are relatively dark, according to a recent study, they possess a greater diversity in skin complexion than all other populations. It is therefore likely that many of the alleles associated with light pigmentation were already present in an ancestral population in Africa prior to their dispersal. When humans migrated out of Africa, the lighter skin causing alleles may have accumulated in one population, either by genetic drift, natural selection, sexual selection or a combination of these effects. Since their effects are additive it is possible light skin could arise over several generations without any new mutations taking place.

According to Luigi Luca Cavalli-Sforza, light skin probably arose in North Africa or both in the north and east.

A 2006 study provides evidence that the light skin pigmentation observed in Europeans and East Asians arose independently. They concluded that light pigmentation in Europeans is at least partially due to the effects of positive directional and/or sexual selection.

(Wikipedia). Ergo, you have no claim to “white” being any different in origin than any other race. Your ancestors were Black. Your “people” were Black. However, accepting the MODERN description, let’s go from there:

“My forbears built the greatest, most powerful civilizations that have ever existed on the planet.”

I put to you another, considered the “greatest” civilization ever:
Quote:

The people who live here all read; all possess books. Their calendars predict the movements of the solar system. Their skills in mathematics, astronomy, art and language are highly developed. In fact, they are more advanced than any other civilization in the world at that time. Would you be surprised to know that this describes México? And that it describes México in the years B.C.? (100 B.C., to be exact?) Yes, it was here in México, that a civilization, more technologically and artistically advanced than anywhere else in the world at that time, thrived. The early settlers of México arrived more than 40, 000 years ago. They were migrants, who left Asia to walk across the Bering Straits of Alaska. They moved down the continent of North America, finally settling in México.

They were more advanced than their contemporaries in any other part of the world. All of México was literate. Most people possessed books, which were made of bark-paper or deer-skin, and folded like a screen. Hieroglyphic writing was used. Maps were highly developed; tabacco smoking was popular. The Maya made landmark scientific discoveries, such as the mathematical concept of zero. With an extensive knowledge of astromony, they developed a calendar that allowed them to predict eclipses and plot the movements of the solar system. They evolved a highly refined hieroglyphic writing system. Without the benefit of metal, monumental cities and ceremonial centers were built. Metal was unknown until 900 A.D. A fantastic number of buildings were built, decorated with beautiful frescoes, covered with sculpture. Pottery and figurines were produced in large quantities. The Mayan Empire was unique; nothing like it has ever been discovered by archeologists. Their buildings continue to elicit wonder. While Rome was collapsing, brilliantly-colored buildings were rising from the jungle floor. While Europe was suffering through the Dark Ages, Mayan civilization flourished.

http://www.pacificpearl.com/archive/1999/april/feature3.htm

You want another “greatest civilization”?
Quote:

There was once a civilization that was the greatest in the world.

It was able to create a continental super-state that stretched from ocean to ocean, and from northern climes to tropics and deserts. Within its dominion lived hundreds of millions of people, of different creeds and ethnic origins.

One of its languages became the universal language of much of the world, the bridge between the peoples of a hundred lands. Its armies were made up of people of many nationalities, and its military protection allowed a degree of peace and prosperity that had never been known. The reach of this civilization’s commerce extended from Latin America to China, and everywhere in between.

And this civilization was driven more than anything, by invention. Its architects designed buildings that defied gravity. Its mathematicians created the algebra and algorithms that would enable the building of computers, and the creation of encryption. Its doctors examined the human body, and found new cures for disease. Its astronomers looked into the heavens, named the stars, and paved the way for space travel and exploration.

Its writers created thousands of stories. Stories of courage, romance and magic. Its poets wrote of love, when others before them were too steeped in fear to think of such things.

When other nations were afraid of ideas, this civilization thrived on them, and kept them alive. When censors threatened to wipe out knowledge from past civilizations, this civilization kept the knowledge alive, and passed it on to others.

While modern Western civilization shares many of these traits, the civilization I’m talking about was the Islamic world from the year 800 to 1600, which included the Ottoman Empire and the courts of Baghdad, Damascus and Cairo, and enlightened rulers like Suleiman the Magnificent.

Although we are often unaware of our indebtedness to this other civilization, its gifts are very much a part of our heritage. The technology industry would not exist without the contributions of Arab mathematicians. Sufi poet-philosophers like Rumi challenged our notions of self and truth. Leaders like Suleiman contributed to our notions of tolerance and civic leadership.

And perhaps we can learn a lesson from his example: It was leadership based on meritocracy, not inheritance. It was leadership that harnessed the full capabilities of a very diverse population–that included Christianity, Islamic, and Jewish traditions.

This kind of enlightened leadership — leadership that nurtured culture, sustainability, diversity and courage — led to 800 years of invention and prosperity.

In dark and serious times like this, we must affirm our commitment to building societies and institutions that aspire to this kind of greatness. More than ever, we must focus on the importance of leadership– bold acts of leadership and decidedly personal acts of leadership.

http://www.islamfortoday.com/hewlettpackard.htm

Gee, Mexico and Islam. How ironic. Okay, let’s go from there:

“We put men on the moon”. Granted, but not without hundreds or thousands of civilizations laying the groundwork.

"Built the first plane, car, submarine, ocean-sailing ship."
Quote:

The Wright brothers are officially the first people who invented the airplane. But there were many more people around the world who also contributed. For many centuries people have been fascinated by the thought of flying. Leonardo da Vinci designed a flying machine in the 15th century, and by the time the 19th century rolled around, humans were airborne in hot-air balloons, gliders, and huge kites.
http://www.learning-to-fly.com/who-invented-the-airplane.html

Many people from many countries invented what the Wright Brothers used in creating the first powered lighter than air machine. I’ll grant you that one, technically.

As to the submarine, the same is true. I’ll refer you to http://www.vectorsite.net/twsub1.html for details. But for the FIRST submersible:
Quote:

The first submersible or submarine was built in 1620 by Cornelius Jacobszoon Drebbel, a Dutchman in the service of James I of England. The design of the first submarine was outlined by William Bourne an English mathematician.
http://answers.ask.com/Society/Military/who_invented_the_submarine

Ocean sailing ship? You must be joking!
Quote:

In 1697, the first ship was built in Käsmu for the baron of Palmse. Boats and smaller ships have been built in Käsmu for almost 200 years (Käsmu, an Estonian-Finnish-Swedish village of captains has also been called Kesemo and Casperwiek at different times). The original fishermen village evolved into a sailors' village by the 19th century. Larger sailing ships have been built since the end of the 19th century. Käsmu men, however, bought their first ocean sailing ships from Finland for the money earned by smuggling salt. After that they launched their local ship construction business. In 1891 a light beacon and the first ocean sailing ship were built, for Käsmu bay was one of the major ports for wintering, in some years of 60-70 ships.
http://www.kasmu.ee/node/38

"Created music that sang with the voice of the soul."

That’s debatable, and subjective. If you mean “soul music”,
Quote:

Soul traces its roots to four different sources: racial, geographical, historical and economical factors. The 1950s recordings of Sam Cooke, Ray Charles and James Brown are commonly considered the beginnings of soul music. Soul comes from a mixture of the sacred (i.e. gospel) and the profane (blues). Blues mainly praised fleshly desires, whereas gospel was more oriented toward spiritual inspiration. Soul music exploded in the 1960s and ruled the black music charts throughout the decade, and inspired many other music styles.
http://randb.about.com/od/rb12/p/SoulMusic.htm

As to the “King” of soul music:
Quote:

He is commonly known as The King of Soul for his unmatched vocal abilities and impact and influence on the modern world of music.
Sam Cooke was Black. So were Ray Charles and James Brown.

"Developed several different languages."

That one’s a real joke. EVERY civilization has done so; Caucasians have done so, actually, to a lesser degree than others. You’d have to be more specific. As it is, it means nothing.

"Created art, that became even the picture of mens souls."

That’s equally ridiculous, as there has been far more exquisite art all over the world than that which solely “white” men created.

"Created the camera."
Quote:

The camera obscura was first invented by the Iraqi scientist Ibn al-Haytham (Alhazen) as described in his Book of Optics (1015-1021). English scientist Robert Boyle and his assistant Robert Hooke later developed a portable camera obscura in the 1660s.

The first camera that was small and portable enough to be practical for photography was built by Johann Zahn (German) in 1685, though it would be almost 150 years before technology caught up to the point where this was practical.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080306190137AAGIAyk

"Harnessed the atom". Granted.

"Enslaved AND set others free."

Again, ridiculous. Many cultures have.

"Built nations, great and small."

Ditto the above.

"Defeated threats both foreign and domestic."

Ditto the above.

"Were knights, gunslingers, soldiers and poets."

Depends on your definition.
Quote:

The FIRST knights were the Knights of the Order of St. John of Jerusalem (to give their full name) were formed long before their reign on Malta. The Order was originally established in 1085 as a community of monks responsible for looking after the sick at the Hospital of St. John in Jerusalem. They later became a military order, defending crusader territory in the Holy Lands and safeguarding the perilous routes taken by medieval pilgrims.
http://www.knightsofmalta.com/history/history.html

As to the FIRST gunslingers, it’s a term so vague it’s not worth looking up.

Poets? Again, you’ve got to be kidding. There are many of great ones in ALL races.

"Brought forth to the world the age of reason and enlightenment.

Waaaay wrong. Again, many civilizations and races come under that heading.

"Carried the banner of truth and justice."

Ridiculous on its face.

"Created a global web, where all peoples could interact."
Quote:

A graduate of Oxford University, Tim Berners-Lee invented the World Wide Web, an internet-based hypermedia initiative for global information sharing while at CERN (situated in the northwest suburbs of Geneva on the Franco–Swiss border), the European Particle Physics Laboratory, in 1989. He wrote the first web client and server in 1990. His specifications of URIs, HTTP and HTML were refined as Web technology spread.
http://www.w3.org/People/Berners-Lee/Overview.html
Quote:

Origins of the WWW: The World-Wide Web began in March 1989 at CERN. (CERN was originally named after its founding body the "Conseil Europeen pour la Recherche Nucleaire," and is now called "European Laboratory for Particle Physics.")
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CERN

"In fact, white folks have done more to IMPROVE and HELP ALL people than ANY others on the face of the planet, from when time was first understood."

That’s so blatantly absurd I won't even touch it.

"We have conquered, loved, fought, strived and ARE the single most accomplished group on the planet."

Again, a stupid statement if you go by “accomplished”.

The basic answer is “No”. If you consider “your” people, meaning “White” civilization, it is built on many other, previous civilizations. Those all BEGAN as a “black” civilization, and owe almost everything it has gotten credit for inventing/creating to those who came before it...and how can you follow the roots of any of those things to their beginnings?

If you want to call them the “greatest, most powerful MODERN civilizations”, you might be able get away with it, but for the most part, you’re wrong. "Your people" are the people of the world.


"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, May 1, 2010 7:32 AM

CHRISISALL


European bringers of truth & justice? Hardly.
Pure, peaceful & noble natives? Oh really?

Stereotypes are like Looney Tunes: fun, but generally shallow.


The laughing Chrisisall


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, May 1, 2010 2:11 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Ok, I can't believe I have to spell this out..

Noone here is for subtlety, eh?

1. Its somehow acceptable for white people to hate themselves.

2. Its only raciss if white people do it, or say it.

3. There are no "races", just cultures. Some good, some bad.

4. The hypocrisy is mind boggeling.




So the opposite of grandiose delusions of your place in history is hate? I'll keep that in mind.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, May 1, 2010 11:19 PM

TRAVELER


So Arizona's new law is not racist.




http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=28764731
Traveler

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

YOUR OPTIONS

NEW POSTS TODAY

USERPOST DATE

OTHER TOPICS

DISCUSSIONS
Elections; 2024
Fri, March 29, 2024 06:56 - 2076 posts
Russia Invades Ukraine. Again
Fri, March 29, 2024 06:20 - 6156 posts
Russia says 60 dead, 145 injured in concert hall raid; Islamic State group claims responsibility
Fri, March 29, 2024 06:18 - 57 posts
In the garden, and RAIN!!! (2)
Fri, March 29, 2024 02:54 - 3414 posts
BUILD BACK BETTER!
Fri, March 29, 2024 02:49 - 11 posts
Long List of Celebrities that are Still Here
Fri, March 29, 2024 00:00 - 1 posts
China
Thu, March 28, 2024 22:10 - 447 posts
Biden
Thu, March 28, 2024 22:03 - 853 posts
Well... He was no longer useful to the DNC or the Ukraine Money Laundering Scheme... So justice was served
Thu, March 28, 2024 12:44 - 1 posts
Salon: NBC's Ronna blunder: A failed attempt to appeal to MAGA voters — except they hate her too
Thu, March 28, 2024 07:04 - 1 posts
Russian losses in Ukraine
Wed, March 27, 2024 23:21 - 987 posts
human actions, global climate change, global human solutions
Wed, March 27, 2024 15:03 - 824 posts

FFF.NET SOCIAL