Are they freaking KIDDING? Good old republican legislators; they can always be counted on...[quote]Republicans in the U.S. Senate want American taxpayer..."/>

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Republicans want bailout for BP...?!!?!

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Wednesday, June 9, 2010 08:52
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 2921
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Tuesday, June 8, 2010 6:11 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Are they freaking KIDDING? Good old republican legislators; they can always be counted on...
Quote:

Republicans in the U.S. Senate want American taxpayers to foot most of the bill for the cleanup of the disastrous, ongoing Deepwater Horizon oil spill. In other words, they want us to bail out BP. Yep, I know, it’s just completely unbelievable, but the GOP senators want to bailout yet another major corporate screw-up — and a corporation that’s a relentless environmental polluter to boot. That’s what will happen if the Senate GOP’s tactics work and they successfully block a bill designed to make BP clean up its own mess (if a spill the size of the two Carolinas combined can be called a mere “mess”). GOP senators, led by Alaska’s Lisa Murkowski and Oklahoma’s James Inhofe, have repeatedly blocked a bill that would raise the cap on oil companies’ liability from $75 million to $10 billion.

So far, the cost of the cleanup has hit around $600 million and is going up every minute, so as of now (May 24, noon), the GOP’s idea for cleaning up BP’s mess would already cost American taxpayers $525 million. Experts estimate the total cost of the current spill cleanup could be anywhere from $1.5 billion to $14 billion; the latter figure includes payments to ruined businesses along the Gulf Coast.

As pointed out by True Majority, “BP makes over $3.9 million EVERY HOUR. In the 31 days since the rig exploded, they’ve earned over $2.8 billion.” The current spill is expected to wreck the Gulf Coast’s fishing and tourist industries, not to mention the untold damage to the Gulf’s already-threatened wetlands, but that’s apparently not a problem for the clueless millionaire’s club running the GOP caucus in the Senate. There are apparently no depths to which some oil company stooges in Congress won’t sink in order to appease their greasy overlords.




At least so far it's not going anywhere...anyone want to take bets?
Quote:

U.S. Senator David Vitter asked for unanimous consent to pass legislation that protect BP and other oil companies by limiting their financial liability for oil spills and potentially leaves taxpayers on the hook for the cost of cleaning up the damage. Vitter’s request was met with objection and did not pass.
http://markcrispinmiller.com/2010/05/vitter-calls-for-bp-bailout-bill-
in-senate
/

He didn't just fuck a woman or two, he wants to fuck US over!


Hippie Operative Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off


To our President: “Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar. Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.... oh, go fuck yourself, Mr. President” ...Raptor

To Anthony, unquestionably the most civil person on this forum: “Go fuck yourself. On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. ...Raptor

To Frem: “You miserable piece of shit.” ...Raptor

To Niki: “My guess is it won't just be your ugly face you dislike.....Well, it's true......if you had a soul.” ...Raptor

...Remember, remember, the ugliest member...

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Tuesday, June 8, 2010 6:16 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

I don't understand the point of limiting liability. You are as liable as you are for the things you do. No more, no less. If the courts decide you are 100 dollars liable, what is the justice in artificially reducing that to 15 dollars?

--Anthony



"On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you." --Auraptor

"This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on." --Fremdfirma

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Tuesday, June 8, 2010 6:41 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Silly man...we're talking about Republican legislators, remember? And you want logic when talking about their money overlords??

As for facts; the damages where oil spills is concerned was passed the Oil Pollution Act of 1990 by unanimous vote in both Houses after the Exxon Valdez. It's still there. It should be done away with; you're right: You are as liable as you are for the things you do. No more, no less."

But don't ask them to agree with that, no sirree:
Quote:

A bill to increase the liability cap for oil spills from $75 million to $10 billion was defeated Thursday by Sen. Lisa Murkowski, R-Alaska.

Bill S.3305, the "Big Oil Bailout Prevention Liability Act" would cap BP's liability at $10 billion, even if damages from the gulf oil spill surpass that figure. The company already estimates that spill will cost $450 million to clean up.

Murkowski, a drilling supporter, has received almost $300,000 in campaign contributions from the oil and gas industry. While Murkowski said that she supports raising the cap, she argued that the $10 billion figure would prohibit all but the biggest of oil companies from drilling oil offshore:
Quote:

It would be impossible or perhaps close to impossible for any energy company that is smaller than the supermajors, smaller than the national oil companies, to operate in the O.C.S.

$10 billion in strict liability would preclude their ability to obtain financing, to obtain the bonds, or insurance for any exploration. And look at who is producing in the offshore? It's the independents.

Sen. Robert Menendez, D-New Jersey, said Murkowski's argument didn't hold up. "The risk is what has to be calulated here. If you drill, you need to be able to pay for the damages," Menendez said.

Menendez derided Murkowski's characterization of "independent" oil and gas companies. "This isn't mom and pop in the grocery store around the corner.''

We all ready "bail" them out via subsidies, yet they want more to avoid the cost of their mistakes. The estimate is that Europeans spend about $10 billion or so (USD equivalent) annually to subsidize fossil fuels. By contrast, the American oil and gas industry might receive anywhere between $15 billion and $35 billion a year in subsidies from taxpayers.
Quote:

Why such a large margin of error? The exact number is slippery and hard to quantify, given the myriad of programs that can be broadly characterized as subsidies when it comes to fossil fuels:

•Construction bonds at low interest rates or tax-free

•Research-and-development programs at low or no cost

•Assuming the legal risks of exploration and development in a company's stead

•Below-cost loans with lenient repayment conditions

•Income tax breaks, especially featuring obscure provisions in tax laws designed to receive little congressional oversight when they expire

•Sales tax breaks - taxes on petroleum products are lower than average sales tax rates for other goods

•Giving money to international financial institutions (the U.S. has given tens of billions of dollars to the World Bank and U.S. Export-Import Bank to encourage oil production internationally)

•The U.S. Strategic Petroleum Reserve

•Construction and protection of the nation's highway system

•Allowing the industry to pollute - what would oil cost if the industry had to pay to protect its shipments, and clean up its spills? If the environmental impact of burning petroleum were considered a cost? Or if it were held responsible for the particulate matter in people's lungs, in liability similar to that being asserted in the tobacco industry?

•Relaxing the amount of royalties to be paid

How much more does our government wanna give 'em, d'ya think?

Next time people start griping about Welfar, etc., let's talk about THIS giveaway...and the cost of the mess in the Gulf...


Hippie Operative Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off


To our President: “Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar. Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.... oh, go fuck yourself, Mr. President” ...Raptor

To Anthony, unquestionably the most civil person on this forum: “Go fuck yourself. On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. ...Raptor

To Frem: “You miserable piece of shit.” ...Raptor

To Niki: “My guess is it won't just be your ugly face you dislike.....Well, it's true......if you had a soul.” ...Raptor

...Remember, remember, the ugliest member...

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Tuesday, June 8, 2010 6:50 AM

DREAMTROVE


Unfortunately, they're right. That may not be why they're doing it, they might have their pockets lined, but they still have point.

The problem is that the law has to be well established before someone commits a crime, or you end up with a police state. You cant just retroactively make a law because someone did something you didn't like. Unless your china, of course.

But in this case, the liability cap was put in place before BP started mucking everything up. Thats the law, and it has to be upheld or the whole system collapses. It's pretty spin heavy to call it a bailout for BP.

That said, here's a clever trick they could pull: make a new law requiring consequence for new oil being spilled, rather than new spills, so if anyone might happen to have a leak which was spilling right now, they could start racking up the charges if they don't cap it. It's not retroactive justice, and it has the same basic affect.

Meanwhile, iirc vitter is busy masturbating in diapers and inhofe is complaining that we don't torture enough, so I'll grant they aren't the shining stars of conservative Christian morality ;)

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Tuesday, June 8, 2010 6:53 AM

DREAMTROVE


Here's another tack. They could just sue BP for damage to the gulf coast in the private sector. That would actually be a lot better. You wouldn't have the nasty legal precedent of retroactive justice, plus the money could go where it's needed, which almost certainly will not happen if it goes to the federal govt.

All coastal properties, townships, cities, counties and states should independently sue BP for damages to help with clean up.

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Tuesday, June 8, 2010 6:56 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I agree. Would be nice to see it happen...hopefully it will! Of course, then you have to get them to actually PAY...which people in Alaska are still waiting for...


Hippie Operative Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off


To our President: “Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar. Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.... oh, go fuck yourself, Mr. President” ...Raptor

To Anthony, unquestionably the most civil person on this forum: “Go fuck yourself. On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. ...Raptor

To Frem: “You miserable piece of shit.” ...Raptor

To Niki: “My guess is it won't just be your ugly face you dislike.....Well, it's true......if you had a soul.” ...Raptor

...Remember, remember, the ugliest member...

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Tuesday, June 8, 2010 6:59 AM

MALACHITE


Republicans from Oklahoma and Alaska, eh? Isn't the oil industry (and lobby) going to be a huge influence in those states? I'm guessing the Republicans have to at least try to block things if they want to keep their jobs. I wonder if it is all just political manuverings, trying to make themselves look good for their constituents (which rely on the oil industry) but still knowing in their hearts that it is wrong to limit BPs liability and hoping that their attempt at a block is unsuccessful? Are there democratic senators from Oklahoma and Alaska? Are they with the republicans in this or are they taking a stand?

(ETA: I looked it up. Both senators from OK are republican, but only 1 senator from Alaska is)

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Tuesday, June 8, 2010 7:07 AM

DREAMTROVE


Nikita

The other oil companies can sue them, if they own gulf real estate, which they undiutedly do. I'm sure they know how to get the money. He'll, have 'em sue for ownership of the oil.

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Tuesday, June 8, 2010 7:10 AM

MALACHITE


So, I just looked up the democrat from Alaska: Mark Begich. I didn't see anything about his stand on BP, but he seems to be pro-oil drilling based on his negative response to Obama's suspension of exploratory drilling.

Quote:

Begich Statement on Suspension of Arctic Exploratory Drilling
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Contact: Julie Hasquet, Press Secretary
May 26, 2010
(907) 258-9304 office
2010-107

U.S. Sen. Mark Begich released the following statement after learning the Obama Administration will announce tomorrow consideration of any applications for exploratory drilling in the Arctic is suspended until 2011:

"I am frustrated that this decision by the Obama Administration to halt offshore development for a year will cause more delays and higher costs for domestic oil and gas production to meet the nation's energy needs.

"The Gulf of Mexico tragedy has highlighted the need for much stronger oversight and accountability of oil companies working offshore, but Shell has updated its plans at the administration's request and made significant investments to address the concerns raised by the Gulf spill. They make an effective case that we can safely explore for oil and gas this summer in the Arctic.

"Another year of delay costs money and Alaska jobs. The nation also has to export more dollars and import more oil from some unfriendly places, jeopardizing our economic and national security.

"I still believe we can responsibly develop oil and gas resources in the Arctic. Over the next year, I'll work with Senator Murkowski and Secretary Salazar, as well as the Alaska operators, to ensure we're ready to go as soon as possible."



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Tuesday, June 8, 2010 7:14 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

Yeah, repeal the law for new events moving forward.

Then increase taxes on oil extraction and use the tax to create a relief fund for people/communities impacted by these spills. Once the fund reaches a target goal... say 1 Trillion dollars, then the tax can be cut off until the fund dips below that again.

A security deposit for an industry that has shown a tendency for periodic disasters.

--Anthony



"On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you." --Auraptor

"This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on." --Fremdfirma

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Tuesday, June 8, 2010 7:25 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Hey, I don't care who sues them, I just want to see everything possible done to hold them responsible--and the only way to make a dent in the abuses of private enterprise is to hit them in the pocket book!

I don't think anyone could get elected in Alaska unless they were pro-drilling. It's a mentality. Just as I don't think anyone could elected in California if they WERE pro-drilling. Even the Govenator has jumped on board.

Another issue we have is abortion: We currently have one candidate running who is anti-choice: Fiorina. It's funny...look up "anti-abortion candidate California, and you'll get more than a page of "Anti-abortion Group to Campaign for CA Candidate" and nothing else. I hope to gawd she doesn't make it, she's an idiot. They say her bigger problem is her connection with HP. We'll see.

The problem here is that So. Ca. is inhabited by far more conservative, older, white Republicans than otherwise, whereas the opposite is true in No. Ca. So we have to outnumber THEM (plus any Repubs in No. Ca.) to do anything...which we failed to do in the election of the Govenator, and Prop. 8. Sigh...can't win 'em all!

But drilling? No problem here...the opposite in Alaska. Dunno about Oklahoma.


Hippie Operative Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off


To our President: “Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar. Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.... oh, go fuck yourself, Mr. President” ...Raptor

To Anthony, unquestionably the most civil person on this forum: “Go fuck yourself. On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. ...Raptor

To Frem: “You miserable piece of shit.” ...Raptor

To Niki: “My guess is it won't just be your ugly face you dislike.....Well, it's true......if you had a soul.” ...Raptor

...Remember, remember, the ugliest member...

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Tuesday, June 8, 2010 7:28 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

A security deposit for an industry that has shown a tendency for periodic disasters.
I think that kind of mirrors insurance premium, doesn't it? They pay the premium, insurance picks up the tab. Which means a raise in the cap = higher insurance premiums. That's the argument for not upping the cap; that it would make "mom and pop" oil companies unable to pay insurance premiums.

I'm sorry if that's the case, and I don't like the mega-oil companies benefitting from it, but the bottom line is "you make a mess, you clean it up" as far as I'm concerned.


Hippie Operative Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off


To our President: “Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar. Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.... oh, go fuck yourself, Mr. President” ...Raptor

To Anthony, unquestionably the most civil person on this forum: “Go fuck yourself. On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. ...Raptor

To Frem: “You miserable piece of shit.” ...Raptor

To Niki: “My guess is it won't just be your ugly face you dislike.....Well, it's true......if you had a soul.” ...Raptor

...Remember, remember, the ugliest member...

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Tuesday, June 8, 2010 7:36 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Niki,

DT makes a very good point. You CAN change existing law going forward, but you can't really change THIS law for THIS spill, unless you can word the law so that it says "any damages from any oil spilled on or after the date of June 10, 2010..." for example. But you don't get to change the law AFTER the crime, and then go back and punish someone under the new law for what wasn't a crime when they committed it.

It's funny how nobody ever complains about "activist judges" when they radically reduce the amounts of penalties and fines, isn't it?

Mike

On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. --Auraptor

This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on. --Fremdfirma

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Tuesday, June 8, 2010 8:09 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I recognize the problem, and like the suggested solutions.

Activist judges? That's a laugh! I'd bet the most "activist" judges have been Conservatives...would have to look it up to be sure, but it's a safe bet. They SEEM to have more of an investment in telling people how to live, despite that being the popular claim about Liberals.

But that's a topic for another thread.


Hippie Operative Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off


To our President: “Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar. Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.... oh, go fuck yourself, Mr. President” ...Raptor

To Anthony, unquestionably the most civil person on this forum: “Go fuck yourself. On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. ...Raptor

To Frem: “You miserable piece of shit.” ...Raptor

To Niki: “My guess is it won't just be your ugly face you dislike.....Well, it's true......if you had a soul.” ...Raptor

...Remember, remember, the ugliest member...

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Tuesday, June 8, 2010 8:14 AM

MOOSE1942


Does any of this surprise anyone anymore? Congress is corrupt. Always has been and always will be. The oil spill is bad news. We really should be suing whoever torpedoed it.

Which actually isn't as far fetched as it sounds. It's possible. But the "puppet theater" doesn't like to talk about things like that.

Case in point. A couple of weeks before the "accident" Obama announced new offshore drilling programs. Then the Deepwater Horizon mysteriously explodes, causing a massive disaster. Now there's a moratorium on deep water drilling because of the disaster. Obama gets to point fingers at BP and gets to seriously reduce offshore drilling.

Seems pretty convenient.

How come we don't have a tinfoil hat emoticon?

Come read my stories, http://alonekingofone.wordpress.com/

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Tuesday, June 8, 2010 8:20 AM

MINCINGBEAST


Solution: alter the constitution to legitimize ex post facto crimes. Next, take corporate personhood to its logical conclusion, and apply the death penalty to BP.

Agreed that the realistic, and legal solution, is civil.

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Tuesday, June 8, 2010 8:28 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I agree; in my opinion, this is another crackpot conspiracy. Whatever else he may be, I refuse to believe Obama would cause something like this to further his agenda.

Just for you:




Hippie Operative Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off


To our President: “Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar. Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.... oh, go fuck yourself, Mr. President” ...Raptor

To Anthony, unquestionably the most civil person on this forum: “Go fuck yourself. On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. ...Raptor

To Frem: “You miserable piece of shit.” ...Raptor

To Niki: “My guess is it won't just be your ugly face you dislike.....Well, it's true......if you had a soul.” ...Raptor

...Remember, remember, the ugliest member...

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Tuesday, June 8, 2010 8:30 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Wouldn't it be possible to use the "corporations as persons" argument to do it anyway? Probably not, I don't know the law, but it sure seems a logical extension...


Hippie Operative Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off


To our President: “Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar. Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.... oh, go fuck yourself, Mr. President” ...Raptor

To Anthony, unquestionably the most civil person on this forum: “Go fuck yourself. On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. ...Raptor

To Frem: “You miserable piece of shit.” ...Raptor

To Niki: “My guess is it won't just be your ugly face you dislike.....Well, it's true......if you had a soul.” ...Raptor

...Remember, remember, the ugliest member...

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Tuesday, June 8, 2010 8:35 AM

MINCINGBEAST


Not really. Most of the benefits of personhood, pretty much none of the drawbacks. Its a rad gig, and I'm trying to figure out a way to incorporate myself...currently offering Mincingbeast stock. Its worthless.

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Tuesday, June 8, 2010 8:40 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by mincingbeast:
Not really. Most of the benefits of personhood, pretty much none of the drawbacks. Its a rad gig, and I'm trying to figure out a way to incorporate myself...currently offering Mincingbeast stock. Its worthless.




Which means it can only go up! Mincingbeast Inc. is a growth industry! It's the way of the future!



Hell, there ARE worse things to invest in. Adobe Systems comes to mind...

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Tuesday, June 8, 2010 8:54 AM

MINCINGBEAST


Lol Kwicko, I hereby award you a controlling stake in Mincingbeast (51 percent).

I'm still stunned that people, even Republicans, could come to BPs defense at this point. Perhaps we can wait until the disaster is more manageable before destroying BP, thus maintaining some incentive for them to stay busy. But in my humble and deranged opinion, BP is already dead. Just hasn't assumed room temperature yet.

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Tuesday, June 8, 2010 9:16 AM

DREAMTROVE


Mike,

Those are *lobbyist* judges ;)

Heres another one: how come its okay to take oil out of america without paying for it? In most countries there's a fee, cause see, the country was worth so many dollars, and then you took the oil away, and it was worth fewer dollars.

Once we put something like that in place, we can then charge them for it whether they actually get the oil or whether they just accidentally spill it in the ocean.

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Tuesday, June 8, 2010 9:18 AM

BYTEMITE


Moose, for your convenience:



Obama torpedoing it? Hmm. Obama's a BP man, which is why he was playing softball with them. They gave him money in the campaign (gave McCain and Palin more), then started dumping money to bribe him about Cap and Trade, and the Windfall reform.

Here's a cite.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2010/apr/22/barack-
obama/obama-campaign-financed-large-donors-too
/

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2010/may/24/bp-liked-o
bama-oil-stained-sarah-palins-hands-too
/

If there was shenanigans, it was probably on the part of BP trying to drive up gas prices for the spring and summer. This is actually a pretty common occurrence, where they cause some kind of controllable incident or claim that something got broken, and carelessly show obvious signs of tampering on the broken object, then say oops, well, now we got to charge more.

This one just went out of control.

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Tuesday, June 8, 2010 9:38 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


On a recent road trip I passed by several BPs that were busy with people getting gas and sundries. Seems like the news doesn't go very far.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Tuesday, June 8, 2010 9:39 AM

DREAMTROVE


Byte

Interesting. So I guess that's why Obama reversed his stance on off shore drilling shortly after being elected.

Pizmo

Americans suck at boycotts. Just look at walmart. The whole price war thing is a trick to get us not to boycott oil companies. After all, what do I care if it costs a penny more a gallon. Even for twelve gallons. That 12c. Big whoop.

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Tuesday, June 8, 2010 10:42 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Evidence Points To BP Oil Spill False Flag
http://www.infowars.com/evidence-points-to-bp-oil-spill-false-flag/

British citizen "Obama" is allegedly "president", while British Petroleum currently "owns" 80% of all oil and gas in Alaska, most of which BP exports to Commie China and Japan. The rest is pumped back into the ground.

So BP's been gettin a bailout every day for many decades.

BTW where's Al Gore during this oil slick "accident"? Guess he's too busy counting his billions in divorce court, and running Occidental Oil Corp for genociding injuns in the rain forest.




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Tuesday, June 8, 2010 11:09 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

I'm still stunned that people, even Republicans, could come to BPs defense at this point.
Goodness, you shouldn't be stunned by NOW. Politicians do what's in their own interests, even the most naive of us know that. It may be surprising that they'll do it so overtly, but then the people in the GULF don't want oil drilling to go away because of the jobs it brings, so why should the politicians be any different?

And I don't think it's dead by a long shot. They've got more money than gawd, and people will always need gas (and the myriad other things they produce, which people can't even boycott because they don't KNOW).

DT: I believe those are the "royalties" the US collects from BP for oil...and I seem to have heard that yes, that applies to spilled oil as well as drilled oil. I could be wrong, but I heard that argument used as to why in part BP wouldn't WANT this spill to continue.

Byte:
Quote:

If there was shenanigans, it was probably on the part of BP trying to drive up gas prices for the spring and summer.
I don't buy that one, either. Much safer to do it either on land or in shallow water...even THEY had to have a good idea they wouldn't know the consequences if they blew up a deep-water rig, in my opinion. There are far more viable options.


Hippie Operative Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off


To our President: “Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar. Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.... oh, go fuck yourself, Mr. President” ...Raptor

To Anthony, unquestionably the most civil person on this forum: “Go fuck yourself. On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. ...Raptor

To Frem: “You miserable piece of shit.” ...Raptor

To Niki: “My guess is it won't just be your ugly face you dislike.....Well, it's true......if you had a soul.” ...Raptor

...Remember, remember, the ugliest member...

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Tuesday, June 8, 2010 11:19 AM

BYTEMITE


They normally do. Actually, normally they sabotage a refinery, oh, opps, can't make gas anymore, because there hasn't been any new refineries built since the 1970s, and there's really only a few in the continental US anyway!

But really, this isn't an uncommon tactic on their part, and the timing is about right.

It would turn out much worse for BP if rather than it merely being an accident, incompetence, and not spending enough on safety and good engineering, it came out this was another scheme about the oil prices alongside their not using the oil tankers where they're waiting for prices to go up.

The fact that the two were occurring simultaneously is rather suspicious, in my book. It's very convenient that tankers were (and still are) waiting for oil prices to go up, and then something happened that will inevitably skyrocket oil prices.

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Tuesday, June 8, 2010 11:29 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by dreamtrove:

Americans suck at boycotts. Just look at walmart. The whole price war thing is a trick to get us not to boycott oil companies. After all, what do I care if it costs a penny more a gallon. Even for twelve gallons. That 12c. Big whoop.



I can imagine a man-on-the-street interview of a guy at a gas station complaining about the cost of gas while he's holding a $1.89 bottled water.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Tuesday, June 8, 2010 11:44 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by mincingbeast:
Lol Kwicko, I hereby award you a controlling stake in Mincingbeast (51 percent).

I'm still stunned that people, even Republicans, could come to BPs defense at this point. Perhaps we can wait until the disaster is more manageable before destroying BP, thus maintaining some incentive for them to stay busy. But in my humble and deranged opinion, BP is already dead. Just hasn't assumed room temperature yet.




Mince, I don't want to control you. You're more fun when you're out of control!

BP isn't dead. Anyone here old enough to really remember the Exxon Valdez debacle? Remember the people cutting up their Exxon gas cards and refusing to "ever" shop at their stores and stations again? Remember the pundits saying that it was very likely that Exxon would simply vanish, cease to exist, go bankrupt and disappear into the dungheap of history?

Yeah, less than 20 years later, Exxon posted the largest profits ever seen on Earth, by any company, anywhere, for anything.

How quickly we forget and forgive...



Dream:

*Allegedly*, the oil companies are supposed to pay royalties for every single barrel of oil that comes out of the ground - not that they're ever really held to that, and it's not as if MMS is ever checking their books or verifying their figures, but they're *supposed to* pay. Yeah, I feel better, too. ;)


Byte: I don't doubt that there IS collusion to set, raise, or lower gas prices, but in this case it hasn't worked quite to BP's advantage. Typically, gas prices go up heading into summer ("peak driving season", they say). Have you noticed the prices going up lately? I've seen the stations near me drop gas prices by $0.15/gal in the last month.

I think the oil companies have a fear that this will have a negative backlash on them, and that people will start TRYING to drive less, drive more efficiently, buy and use less gas, etc. And I think they're actively trying to hold down gas prices - even if it impacts their short-term profits - to try to assuage our fears and keep us addicted to cheap oil. That's just the feeling that I get. I have no factual basis for that; it's just a hunch.

Quote:

Posted by PizmoBeach:


On a recent road trip I passed by several BPs that were busy with people getting gas and sundries. Seems like the news doesn't go very far.



Piz: Right on. The news seems to travel no further than the latest sales flier. And that man on the street complaining about the price of gas while drinking his $1.89 liter of water isn't far-fetched at all. It always amuses me when people in the U.S. complain about gas when it hits three bucks a gallon. Why, some of them even threaten to trade in their Hummers! :)


Okay, I think I'm caught up now.

Mike

On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. --Auraptor

This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on. --Fremdfirma

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Tuesday, June 8, 2010 12:40 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Byte: I don't doubt that there IS collusion to set, raise, or lower gas prices, but in this case it hasn't worked quite to BP's advantage. Typically, gas prices go up heading into summer ("peak driving season", they say). Have you noticed the prices going up lately? I've seen the stations near me drop gas prices by $0.15/gal in the last month.

I think the oil companies have a fear that this will have a negative backlash on them, and that people will start TRYING to drive less, drive more efficiently, buy and use less gas, etc. And I think they're actively trying to hold down gas prices - even if it impacts their short-term profits - to try to assuage our fears and keep us addicted to cheap oil. That's just the feeling that I get. I have no factual basis for that; it's just a hunch.



This is likely also true. As a reaction to the oil spill, they panic, and hang BP out to dry. And BP is stupidly still waiting for it's oil tankers to be able to sell high, saying "c'mon, guys, this isn't funny, rate hike already."

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Tuesday, June 8, 2010 12:43 PM

CITIZEN


I doubt this will effect oil prices overly, Oil is bought and sold on a futures market, things that threaten long term supply tend to force prices up. Hence why growing tensions in the middle east and Russia's invasion of Georgia, threatening a major pipeline, saw big rises that peaked an fell when those same situations came to a conclusion).

Fact is that this spill, as hugely damaging to the environment as it is, is a drop in the ocean (if you'll pardon the unforgivable pun) to the overall supply. The US burns about double the total amount of oil spilled so far into the Gulf of Mexico a day.

--------------------------------------------------

If you play a Microsoft CD backwards you can hear demonic voices. The scary part is that if you play it forwards it installs Windows.

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Tuesday, June 8, 2010 1:52 PM

BYTEMITE


Edit: wrong thread.

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Tuesday, June 8, 2010 2:16 PM

CITIZEN


Wrong thread byte ;)

--------------------------------------------------

If you play a Microsoft CD backwards you can hear demonic voices. The scary part is that if you play it forwards it installs Windows.

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Tuesday, June 8, 2010 4:17 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Byte, apparently that wasn't good enough, we just had a couple no-damage, no-casualty pipeline fires, and one explosion in Cleburne TX (and it's always TX, with those) where the company initially claimed far more casualties (in fact one killed, not the twelve they claimed) and damage was done, in spite of it being obvious immediately that wasn't the case.

Now all they need is an empty tanker truck to crash and burn to complete the usual June trifecta, preferably into an overpass so they can max the media coverage.

-F

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Tuesday, June 8, 2010 5:16 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:
The US burns about double the total amount of oil spilled so far into the Gulf of Mexico a day.


That's an incredibly toxic statement, Cit.


The laughing Chrisisall


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Tuesday, June 8, 2010 5:18 PM

BYTEMITE


Oops, I'll fix it.

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Tuesday, June 8, 2010 5:32 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
Oops, I'll fix it.

Are you Wonder Woman?


The laughing Chrisisall


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Tuesday, June 8, 2010 6:21 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
Oops, I'll fix it.

Are you Wonder Woman?


The laughing Chrisisall




Are you prepared to be lassoed to find out the truth?

Mike

On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. --Auraptor

This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on. --Fremdfirma

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Tuesday, June 8, 2010 8:05 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

All coastal properties, townships, cities, counties and states should independently sue BP for damages to help with clean up.
But what about the open oceans? Who owns that? Who sues for damages there? Damage is certainly being done, but since nobody "owns" the oceans there is no entity with the authority to collect.

It's the problem of the commons. That's why government was invented.

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Tuesday, June 8, 2010 8:05 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


so much for the error message!

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Tuesday, June 8, 2010 8:06 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Seems to me that if BP caused the explosion due to negligence... or worse.... the old law doesn't apply...

EVIDENCE OF SHORTCUTS

Quote:

The morning the Deepwater Horizon oil rig exploded, a BP executive and a Transocean official argued over how to proceed with the drilling, rig survivors told CNN's Anderson Cooper in an exclusive interview. The survivors' account paints perhaps the most detailed picture yet of what happened on the deepwater rig -- and the possible causes of the April 20 explosion.

The BP official wanted workers to replace heavy mud, used to keep the well's pressure down, with lighter seawater to help speed a process that was costing an estimated $750,000 a day and was already running five weeks late, rig survivors told CNN. BP won the argument, said Doug Brown, the rig's chief mechanic. "He basically said, 'Well, this is how it's gonna be.' "

"That's what the big argument was about," added Daniel Barron III. Shortly after the exchange, chief driller Dewey Revette expressed concern and opposition too, the workers said, and on the drilling floor, they chatted among themselves.

"I don't ever remember doing this," they said, according to Barron. "I think that's why Dewey was so reluctant to try to do it," Barron said, "because he didn't feel it was the right way to have things done. Revette was among the 11 workers killed when the rig exploded that night.

In the CNN interviews, the workers described a corporate culture of cutting staff and ignoring warning signs ahead of the blast. They said BP routinely cut corners and pushed ahead despite concerns about safety.



GOSH! A company cutting corners to cut costs! Who woulda thunk????

Only thing I can say is that if you all refuse to learn history, you WILL repeat it... over... and over... and over....

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Wednesday, June 9, 2010 6:27 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


damned computer...

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Wednesday, June 9, 2010 6:27 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I wonder if it IS possible that, if they prove negligence (and there certainly WAS negligence), it might nullify their insurance and THEY'd have to pay? Wouldn't that be loverly...

Sig, the question about "open ocean" was asked a while back, and I tried to find the answer. It APPEARS that they were drilling within "U.S. Federal waters", but I couldn't find more than that. I think that's different than the open ocean when it comes to this stuff...?




Hippie Operative Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off


To our President: “Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar. Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.... oh, go fuck yourself, Mr. President” ...Raptor

To Anthony, unquestionably the most civil person on this forum: “Go fuck yourself. On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. ...Raptor

To Frem: “You miserable piece of shit.” ...Raptor

To Niki: “My guess is it won't just be your ugly face you dislike.....Well, it's true......if you had a soul.” ...Raptor

...Remember, remember, the ugliest member...

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Wednesday, June 9, 2010 6:34 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I kept trying to post it, kept getting "Internet Explorer cannot...", but it posted anyway...

damned internet...

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Wednesday, June 9, 2010 6:49 AM

BYTEMITE


It's just the new board version Haken's working on jumping out and giving you a surprise hug!

And after a thirty second gestation period, twins and triplets.

(Kidding. But yeah, the error is some kind of internal error within the site, and doesn't necessarily interfere with your post being submitted. If you see it, just back track back to the thread and navigate around, confident that it's there after all)

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Wednesday, June 9, 2010 8:51 AM

CAVALIER


I think that this is a desperately important matter. If you allow an unpopular company to be protected from the government, merely because it is protected by a law that government wrote, you accept that other unpopular groups of people can be protected by the law.

All sorts of groups could be shielded from the wrath of the majority: bankers, gays, rednecks, Jews, illegal immigrants, even niggers. The idea of allowing a law to protect the unpopular is a terrible threat to Democracy and the Will of The People.

Especially if I personally dislike the unpopular group.

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Wednesday, June 9, 2010 8:51 AM

CAVALIER


This was not so much a double post as a triple post.

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Wednesday, June 9, 2010 8:52 AM

CAVALIER


This was not so much a double post as a triple post.

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