REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Gaston native says residents are devastated

POSTED BY: AURAPTOR
UPDATED: Monday, June 14, 2010 18:39
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VIEWED: 465
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Monday, June 14, 2010 1:15 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

At the first parking area, usually filled with beachgoers, I saw a few cars parked. I tried to enter the lot but couldn’t as there was still 3-4 inches of standing water in the surfaced area from the thunderstorms on Saturday. Five workers and a Park Ranger were on the sand dune dressing out in the hazmat suits to collect tarballs from the beach. I drove on about 5 miles past the campground to the Battery at the western tip of Fort Pickens. I parked there and climbed the Battery steps to see Pensacola Pass, the entrance from the Gulf into Pensacola Harbor. There were no booms to keep the oil out of the bay as were discussed in the previous weeks. The booms were supposed to be put out prior to the incoming tide and taken up on the outgoing tide so boats/ships could still use the pass.

That plan just didn’t work.

....I stopped at the first Pensacola Beach parking area outside the National Park. The area has cabanas and fresh water. The parking lot was only about half full with most of the vehicles belonging to locals. I walked across the boardwalk over the dunes to the beach. I could smell the oil in the air. The odor is like diesel. I found tarballs all along the beach where the high tide line had been. I saw a small trailer parked by the lifeguard stand loaded with plastic trash bags of tarballs that had already been collected.

http://www.gastongazette.com/news/font-48229-franklin-book.html






" Being correct does not excuse a violation of form " - Ducky, NCIS.

" ...the whole point of swearing is that it ain't appropriate. " - Kaylee



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Monday, June 14, 2010 1:32 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Sure would help if BP would hurry up and process some of those claims, instead of trying to weasel out of paying for their fuckup.


That whole "tort reform" thing's really gotta be looking good about now, eh?

Mike

On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. --Auraptor

This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on. --Fremdfirma

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Monday, June 14, 2010 1:37 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


paying for the fuck up is a moot point until the fuck up is capped, and the clean up has begun.

Obama is putting his only foot forward, ( that's not in his mouth ) and you're buying it. Naturally. By promising to " get tough " on the big bad corporation, Obama really thinks he can win this .... fact is, he's already lost it. He just doesn't know it yet.

( Tort reform ? How's Healthcare play into this ? )






" Being correct does not excuse a violation of form " - Ducky, NCIS.

" ...the whole point of swearing is that it ain't appropriate. " - Kaylee


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Monday, June 14, 2010 1:55 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
paying for the fuck up is a moot point until the fuck up is capped, and the clean up has begun.

Obama is putting his only foot forward, ( that's not in his mouth ) and you're buying it. Naturally. By promising to " get tough " on the big bad corporation, Obama really thinks he can win this .... fact is, he's already lost it. He just doesn't know it yet.

( Tort reform ? How's Healthcare play into this ? )





Really? You're actually admitting to being that fucking stupid?

Quote:

Tort reform refers to proposed changes in the civil justice system that would reduce tort litigation or damages. Tort is a system for compensating wrongs and harm done by one party to another's person, property or other protected interests (e.g. reputation, under libel and slander laws). Tort reform advocates focus on personal injury in particular.
In the United States tort reform is a contentious political issue. US tort reform advocates propose, among other things, procedural limits on the ability to file claims, and capping the awards of damages. According to Forbes reporter Daniel Fisher, tort reform is "A catchall phrase for legislative measures designed to make it harder for individuals to sue businesses."




(Hint: It's not just about healthcare.)



By the way, I'm not "buying" anything. That's the main difference between us, I think; you think of EVERYTHING as a commodity to be "bought" and "sold" - and that includes people, morality, and ethics. I haven't "bought" what BP *OR* the government has been "selling" on this one. It's a monumental clusterfuck, and it's what happens when you go chasing after oil and have no contingency plan for when it all goes wrong, other than crossing your fingers and praying, which is worth fuck-all when it all goes tits-up. You've been sold a bill of good by your corporatist masters, and you've bought into it at every step, and you STILL think that while the government has no place in your life at all, they should somehow be omniscient and omnipotent enough to magically swoop in and make this all better in a heartbeat.

Mike

On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. --Auraptor

This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on. --Fremdfirma

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Monday, June 14, 2010 3:04 PM

DREAMTROVE


Oh get a room. I thought there was a thunderom thread waiting for you two.

Actually, I suspect Obama has blown his reelection chances, OTOH, I thought that about bush, and given that Sarah palin might be the opposition, I don't know.

Clearly there was no oversight at all in this operation, something that probably should have been seen to. Right now though, I agree, someone fix the thing.

New possibility just arose: it may be broken much further down, and plugging the hole may not do it. Potentially, such a plug could be in the way if this turns out to be the case. The pipe sits inside a five mile tunnel, which is unlined, and could have fractures anywhere along. That pipe, also unlined, has very few supports, six, less than the 22 halliburton requested (bp, they want to cut corners that even halliburton thinks are essential) anyway, I don't fully understand this one, so if anyone else has a better grasp on it, please share. It just seems that e might need to go into the hole, and plug it further down. I think there's just miles and miles and miles of fuck up here.

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Monday, June 14, 2010 3:31 PM

KIRKULES


Quote:

Originally posted by dreamtrove:

Actually, I suspect Obama has blown his reelection chances, OTOH, I thought that about bush, and given that Sarah palin might be the opposition, I don't know.


The stark contrast between the leadership skills of Barack Obama and Bobby Jindal should help all Republican candidates. Let's just hope it's not Palin.

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Monday, June 14, 2010 3:45 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Originally posted by Kirkules:
Quote:

Originally posted by dreamtrove:

Actually, I suspect Obama has blown his reelection chances, OTOH, I thought that about bush, and given that Sarah palin might be the opposition, I don't know.


The stark contrast between the leadership skills of Barack Obama and Bobby Jindal should help all Republican candidates. Let's just hope it's not Palin.




Hello,

I haven't seen anyone rise up in the Republican party as a good candidate for the next election. I have been wondering who it will be. Two more years to go. They'll need to start pushing someone soon.

--Anthony


"On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you." --Auraptor

"This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on." --Fremdfirma

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Monday, June 14, 2010 6:14 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

paying for the fuck up is a moot point until the fuck up is capped, and the clean up has begun.



By the way, Rap, you missed the entire point of my response: That MAYBE BP should step up processing claims from people who've had their livelihoods devastated by BP's spill. These people are suffering, they're going to lose their boats, their homes, their businesses, and BP is dithering and dawdling, trying to wait them out or buy them out cheap with low-ball offers tied to promises (signed, of course) to never try to sue BP again in the aftermath of this debacle.

Now, you're saying "fix it, and worry about the pay later" - I have to wonder, though, if "later" isn't just going to work out to a bailout for everyone on the Gulf, as BP divests itself of all its assets as "dividends" for its shareholders, and then declares bankruptcy, leaving Uncle Sam holding the bag.

Got any ideas on how to hold BP accountable in the future for the money you're asking the fed to front them now? If so, I'd love to hear them.



Meanwhile, a question for the whole board: Is it time?

When it comes to cleanup response, is it time to discuss a massive government effort along the lines of the Civilian Conservation Corps, or the Works Progress Administration of the New Deal era, or the Peace Corps of the Camelot age? We're mobilizing some 12,000 National Guard troops - basically everybody who isn't in Afghanistan or Iraq, or stationed on the Arizona border because that's the most important thing in the world last week, and we're mobilizing another 20,000 or so volunteers, but is that enough?

We've got close to 10% unemployment in this country - numbers not seen since 3 years into Reagan's first term - and we've got an enormous need for human resources - people, manpower, boots on the ground, shovel-ready jobs - right on our Gulf Coast, from east Texas all the way to the Florida Keys. Okay, not the Florida Keys *YET*, but can we go ahead and prepare and try to prevent, instead of reacting after the fact?

So we put two to three million people on the government payroll, get them trained up, and get them washing birds, shoveling oiled sand, cleaning marshlands, doing anything and everything to clean up this spill. Frankly, they aren't going to be any help capping it, since the best minds on the planet are already working on that problem, night and day, and likely the only thing that's going to work is a relief well that's still two months away, at least.

But we can start cleaning up, and we can start taking preventative measures to keep the oil from sullying the beaches it hasn't already hit. And we can put people to work in the shipyard outfitting everything and anything to help suck up oil, separate oil from water, round up oil with booms - whatever they can do, we can, as a nation, outfit them to do.

Is it going to cost cubic tons of money? Shit, yes. But can it be an opportunity to (A) *DO* something, ang (B) put Americans to work, who really WANT to work, and to help out? Shit fucking yes, it can.

So is this a conversation we can have?

Do we want the government doing something, or do we just want to bitch about wanting the government to do something, while at the same time hoping that the government won't really do enough, so we can continue to bitch about them not doing anything?

I'd vote for the former.

What say you?


Oh, and yes, we're billing BP for it. Put 'em into receivership, like I brought up a few weeks ago (and which Robert Reich apparently agrees with), effectively putting a lien on all their U.S. holdings, bank accounts, investments, and equiment.


Now, as to the people who have pension funds in BP. Do we care about them? Are we caring about this? Is anyone suggesting a bailout? Or is this Wall Street, where you bets your money and you takes your chances? After the last several rounds of bailouts, started by Bush and carried on by Obama, I'm leery about guaranteeing anyone's investments in really shitty companies with really shoddy practices. Too bad, so sad, you lost your money; next time don't invest in companies that attack entire coastlines.


Any input? Anyone?


ETA: NEVER MIND ON THAT LAST BIT, ABOUT THE WPA/CCC IDEAS. I'M PUTTING THOSE INTO THEIR OWN THREAD SO WE CAN HOPEFULLY HAVE THAT DISCUSSION.

Mike

On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. --Auraptor

This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on. --Fremdfirma

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Monday, June 14, 2010 6:25 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


"So is this a conversation we can have? "

Hello,

I like the idea of employing everyone who wants a job at 10 dollars per hour to perform minimally skilled cleanup facilitating labor. In fact, anyone in an affected area who is collecting unemployment should be strongly nudged in that direction.

We have a Hoover Dam, I'm ready for a million Hoovers sucking up oil. ;-)

Seriously, though, this is a no-brainer.

--Anthony




"On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you." --Auraptor

"This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on." --Fremdfirma

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Monday, June 14, 2010 6:39 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


That's kind of the way I feel about it, Anthony. We've got people needing work. We've got massive amounts of work needing to be done.

Shit, we've got FEMA trailers in the area still. Can we start putting people in the area and getting them trained? Yes, it will take time to train them. Unfortunately, we seem to have some time on our hands; this oil is going to be around for a while.

Another thought: Would anyone be willing to give illegals a shot at these jobs, and a chance to earn their way towards a more streamlined citizenship? Give any citizen willing to work first crack at it, but I'd be likely to give an illegal a cleaner path to citizenship if he's willing to serve his country.

Let's be honest: This is a war. We have been attacked. It may not have been intentional, but we have an insidious enemy off our entire Gulf Coast, just waiting to attack. They may not be repelled, but they can be defeated, and their damages can be mitigated and cleaned up. We may need a Marshall Plan for the Gulf!

Just a thought...

Mike

On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. --Auraptor

This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on. --Fremdfirma

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