I can't believe they are doing this. Not only is it absolutely contrary to our Constitution and everything we stand for, it is grandstanding which may b..."/>

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Re: The Qu'ran burnings

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Sunday, September 12, 2010 06:47
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 6016
PAGE 1 of 3

Tuesday, September 7, 2010 8:56 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I can't believe they are doing this. Not only is it absolutely contrary to our Constitution and everything we stand for, it is grandstanding which may backfire for the entire nation around the world. At least they're thinking (and "praying") about it...what gets me, is: they don't already KNOW their "message" in doing this???
Quote:

The pastor of a Florida church planning to burn Qu’rans told CNN Tuesday while the congregation plans to go through with the action to protest the September 11, 2001 attack on the United States by al Qaeda, the church is "weighing" its intentions.

Terry Jones, pastor of Dove World Outreach Church in Gainesville, Florida, who was interviewed on CNN's "American Morning, said the congregation is taking seriously the warning from the U.S. military that the act could cause problems for American troops.

"We have firmly made up our mind, but at the same time, we are definitely praying about it," said Jones said.

"We are definitely weighing the situation. We are weighing the thing that we're about to do. What it possibly could cause. What is our actual message. What are we trying to get across."

The planned action has drawn sharp criticism from Muslims around the world and U.S. officials.

The U.S. Embassy in Kabul on Tuesday issued a statement saying the U.S. government "in no way condones such acts of disrespect against the religion of Islam, and is deeply concerned about deliberate attempts to offend members of religious or ethnic groups." It emphasized that it strongly condemned "the offensive messages, which are contrary to U.S. government policy and deeply offensive to Muslims especially during the month of Ramadan."

"Americans from all religious and ethnic backgrounds reject the offensive initiative by this small group in Florida. A great number of American voices are protesting the hurtful statements made by this organization," the embassy said.

Gen. David Petraeus, the commander in Afghanistan, said the burning of Islam's holy books "could cause significant problems" for American troops overseas.

"It could endanger troops and it could endanger the overall effort in Afghanistan," Petraeus said in a statement issued Monday.

With about 120,000 U.S. and NATO-led troops still battling al Qaeda and its allies in the Islamic fundamentalist Taliban movement, Petraeus warned that burning Qu’rans "is precisely the kind of action the Taliban uses and could cause significant problems -- not just here, but everywhere in the world we are engaged with the Islamic community."

Petraeus said he was concerned by the political repercussions of the church's plan.

"Even the rumor that it might take place has sparked demonstrations such as the one that took place in Kabul yesterday," he said. "Were the actual burning to take place, the safety of our soldiers and civilians would be put in jeopardy and accomplishment of the mission would be made more difficult."

He said extremists would use images of burning Qu’rans to inflame public opinion and incite violence.

"And this would, again, put our troopers and civilians in jeopardy and undermine our efforts to accomplish the critical mission here in Afghanistan," he said.

One of Petraeus' deputies, Lt. Gen. William Caldwell, told CNN's "The Situation Room" that the event "has already stirred up a lot of discussion and concern" among Afghans.

"We very much feel that this can jeopardize the safety of our men and women that are serving over here in the country," said Caldwell, the head of NATO efforts to train Afghan security forces.

Caldwell said American troops "are over here to defend the rights of American citizens, and we're not debating the First Amendment rights that people have." But he added, "What I will tell you is that their very actions will in fact jeopardize the safety of the young men and women who are serving in uniform over here and also undermine the very mission that we're trying to accomplish."

Thousands of Indonesians gathered outside the U.S. Embassy in Jakarta, Indonesia, on Sunday to protest the planned Qu’ran burning.

"Our message is very clear," Jones said. "It is not to the moderate Muslim. Our message is not a message of hate. Our message is a message of warning to the radical element of Islam, and I think what we see right now around the globe provides exactly what we're talking about," he said.

HOW he thinks this will in any way be a message to the radical elements...except insofar as it cements their belief, and recruitment claims, that America is hateful, intolerant and anti-Islam...is beyond me. The "radical elements" will be jumping for joy!

We can only hope their 'prayers' tell them to behave like CHRISTIANS, not hateful bigtots!


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off





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Tuesday, September 7, 2010 9:10 AM

CHRISISALL


It's stupidly putting out troops at greater risk.
I mean, BESIDES being a wrong thing to do for many OTHER reasons.


The laughing Chrisisall


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Tuesday, September 7, 2010 9:40 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Oh, they have the " right " to do it, but it's not too smart.

Sound familiar ?

This podunk nothing church in.... where ? Not rural L.A. ( lower Alabama ) or Topeka, Kansas, but Gainesville, FL. The home to the University of Florida and the Fightin' Gators. ( chomp chomp )

Here's an idea I heard someone else offer.... Why don't the members ( all 50 of them ? ) of this church all down load a copy of the Quran onto their Kindles or home computers. Then, at exactly the same time on 9/11, they can all click "delete " and erase those Qurans! Take that, devil book!

They'll also be out the $$ spent on DL the Quran, but burning them does the same thing.









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Tuesday, September 7, 2010 9:47 AM

CHRISISALL


That's inspired, AU!


The laughing Chrisisall


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Tuesday, September 7, 2010 9:58 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Yeah, it's cool...they could even gather as a group and do it together..."1, 2, 3, PRESS DELETE!"

But it wouldn't make news, which is the point, obviously...

And besides, even THAT would probably piss off Muslims...tho' less so than this, no doubt...


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Tuesday, September 7, 2010 10:14 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
I can't believe they are doing this...



I can't believe you can't believe. This is also exhibit A. in why we can't have random democracy btw.

I also can't believe cnn is giving this thing so much play... UNLESS it's because there are a lot of people out there who go, "I just can't believe anyone would be so stupid CLICK!" It's like the stories they run are based on some kind of metrics or something and not the value of their content...

And, if it only takes these few flaming wingnuts in Florida to stir up this much hatred toward us in Kabul, then I guess we better hurry up and build that community center!



Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Tuesday, September 7, 2010 10:18 AM

BYTEMITE



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Tuesday, September 7, 2010 10:34 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Not only is it absolutely contrary to our Constitution and everything we stand for...


Burning a holy book, or any book for that matter (or the American Flag), to make a point is both contrary to everything we stand for and entirely Constitutional.

Like the Mosque issue, flag burning, reality TV, those folks who protest at soldier funerals, and kind of Nazi parade its a whole lotta wrong wrapped up in couple very important rights.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I would rather not ignore your contributions." Niki2, 2010.

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Tuesday, September 7, 2010 10:49 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


The laughing Chrisisall


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Tuesday, September 7, 2010 11:05 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
Like the Mosque issue, flag burning, reality TV, those folks who protest at soldier funerals, and kind of Nazi parade its a whole lotta wrong wrapped up in couple very important rights.


Damn, Hero finally says something that makes sense, imma have to mark my calender, maybe there's hope yet.


-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Tuesday, September 7, 2010 11:49 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


1000's are marching here and there, across the muslim world, in protest of this proposed Quran burning. Terry Jones was burned in effigy, as well as the US flag. ( shocker, I know )

And why ?

At there mere mention that several copies of the Quran "might" be burned.

As of yet, none have.

Yeah, this will turn out good.






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Tuesday, September 7, 2010 11:57 AM

WISHIMAY


Wonder how they are gonna feel when some a$$hole really takes offence to that and goes out kills maybe their neighbors 19 year old soldier boy or more because of their completely illiterate and *unneccesary* actions. Hope it will be worth it for ya Florida. If you poke an angry animal, you deserve the pain you get...

How much ego is enough?
How much blood is enough?

Maybe we should burn a Japanese history book on the anniversary of Pearl Harbor?....

Book burning isn't the symbol of someone who takes a rational stand, It's a symbol of hatred and provocation -A La Hitler style...

Anybody remember him??


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Tuesday, September 7, 2010 12:01 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Wishimay:


Maybe we should burn a Japanese history book on the anniversary of Pearl Harbor?....




I know you mean well, but really ?






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Tuesday, September 7, 2010 12:37 PM

MINCINGBEAST


The idiot at the heart of this mess is burning to Koran to demonstrate a point that is not seriously contended: that when you insult the detestable Bronze age superstitions of Muslims, they riot howl for blood. He has done a better job of demonstrating that he is an idiot.

I am sort of curious, though, in the coverage this gets. It seems that the howling for blood is cast as perfectly reasonable, and inevitable, as if muslims had no other possible response. I hope that they respond peacefully--that would be the ultimate pwnage of the book burning--but that is too much to expect.

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Tuesday, September 7, 2010 1:55 PM

WISHIMAY


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by Wishimay:


Maybe we should burn a Japanese history book on the anniversary of Pearl Harbor?....




I know you mean well, but really ?








No, not really, that was meant to be a ludicrous statement....Sometimes I forget you all can't SEE intent.

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Tuesday, September 7, 2010 2:09 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by mincingbeast:

I hope that they respond peacefully--that would be the ultimate pwnage of the book burning--but that is too much to expect.





Now, that might very well be the worst effigy of anyone - ever, but you get the point.

No idea what 'barking of your popy (Pope?) Terry Jones' is suppose to mean, but they know he's in Florida... somewhere.

And let's not forget... folks DIED in riots from the cartoon strips of Mohammad.... so this will likely piss even more off than those did.




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Tuesday, September 7, 2010 2:14 PM

MINCINGBEAST


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by mincingbeast:

I hope that they respond peacefully--that would be the ultimate pwnage of the book burning--but that is too much to expect.





Now, that might very well be the worst effigy of anyone - ever, but you get the point.

No idea what 'barking of your popy (Pope?) Terry Jones' is suppose to mean, but they know he's in Florida... somewhere.

And let's not forget... folks DIED in riots from the cartoon strips of Mohammad.... so this will likely piss even more off than those did.




To all those who assert that the 'popy terry jones' is a jackass and idiot, I do not dispute that. But he is guilty, at most, of stirring the shit or kicking a hornet's nest. Still stunned by the disproportionate response: burn a book (even if part of a deliberate and tasteless provocation), and we shall predictably riot. These folks have self-esteem issues, and need soemthing better to occupy their time.

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Tuesday, September 7, 2010 2:15 PM

TDBROWN


OT: Japanese History Books rarely mention Pearl Harbor, but they do pay a lot of attention to Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Revisionist History of the highest order.

Just an observation...

And that Church in Fla is as bad as the Islamic Extremists they intend to "protest".

"Might have been the losing side, still not convinced it was the wrong one." -Mal

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Tuesday, September 7, 2010 2:25 PM

MINCINGBEAST


Quote:

Originally posted by TDBrown:
OT: Japanese History Books rarely mention Pearl Harbor, but they do pay a lot of attention to Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Revisionist History of the highest order.

Just an observation...

And that Church in Fla is as bad as the Islamic Extremists they intend to "protest".

"Might have been the losing side, still not convinced it was the wrong one." -Mal




Fair observation, but I cannot join you on point two: that the Florida church is "as bad as" Islamic Extremists. They are bad, and dumb, but bad and dumb come in degrees. "As bad as" would suggest "equivalent to", and until the wretched Evangelicals start burning people instead of books, they're not on the same level. Of course, they may indirectly and recklessly provide inspiration for further violence...

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Tuesday, September 7, 2010 2:37 PM

HKCAVALIER


Quote:

Originally posted by mincingbeast:
I am sort of curious, though, in the coverage this gets. It seems that the howling for blood is cast as perfectly reasonable, and inevitable, as if muslims had no other possible response. I hope that they respond peacefully--that would be the ultimate pwnage of the book burning--but that is too much to expect.

I promise you, Mince, of the 1.6 BILLION or so Muslims in the world, the vast majority will respond peacefully. But you can count on the American media latching onto the few hundred (if that many) who, living in totalitarian regimes, fume and swear vengeance on the Great Satan.

The issue is not whether radical Islamists exist, we all know they do. The question is how many are there AND what sort of real threat do they pose to us.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Tuesday, September 7, 2010 2:38 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by TDBrown:
And that Church in Fla is as bad as the Islamic Extremists they intend to "protest".

"Might have been the losing side, still not convinced it was the wrong one." -Mal




Not 'as bad as',imo, but their IQ's share the same room temperature status.

The book burning is a needless provocation, especially to tie it nonsensically to 9/11.

I doubt Jesus, if he were real, would have approved of such an act.





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Tuesday, September 7, 2010 2:51 PM

MINCINGBEAST


Quote:

Originally posted by HKCavalier:
Quote:

Originally posted by mincingbeast:
I am sort of curious, though, in the coverage this gets. It seems that the howling for blood is cast as perfectly reasonable, and inevitable, as if muslims had no other possible response. I hope that they respond peacefully--that would be the ultimate pwnage of the book burning--but that is too much to expect.

I promise you, Mince, of the 1.6 BILLION or so Muslims in the world, the vast majority will respond peacefully. But you can count on the American media latching onto the few hundred (if that many) who, living in totalitarian regimes, fume and swear vengeance on the Great Satan.

The issue is not whether radical Islamists exist, we all know they do. The question is how many are there AND what sort of real threat do they pose to us.



Your promises are empty, like my heart; but whisper them again.

Also, should reports suggest that there were a few thousand crazed protesters, as opposed to a few hundred, I shall seize upon this as evidence of your wrongdoing forever. Anyway, I concede the point that a bunch of howling hooligans does not speak for the 1.6 billion who think that Allah pwns all--but I think you minimize the currency of the howling.

In the case of the poorly drawn cartoons, a brief glimpse at a timeline would suggest that more than mere hundreds were involved. Does this row have the potential to eclipse it? http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/4688602.stm

One such protest in Pakistan was pegged by the times at 70,000, though I cannot vocuh for the veracity of the source. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article731005.ece

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Tuesday, September 7, 2010 3:13 PM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
Burning a holy book, or any book for that matter (or the American Flag), to make a point is both contrary to everything we stand for and entirely Constitutional.




OMG! OMG! Wow.


-----
Burning a holy book, or any book for that matter (or the American Flag), to make a point is both contrary to everything we stand for and entirely Constitutional.-- Hero

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Tuesday, September 7, 2010 3:14 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:


I doubt Jesus, if he were real, would have approved of such an act.



Oh, he was real IMO, and no, he wouldn't have approved.
For the record, I personally have no problem with stirring up a bunch of crazed fundamentalist insecure a**wipes with a provocative symbolic gesture- it's just that our men & women are still over there, and ONE extra death due to these idiotic shenanigans is WAAAAY too much.


The not-laughing Chrisisall


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Tuesday, September 7, 2010 3:16 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by canttakesky:


OMG! OMG! Wow.



Try not to faint.


The laughing Chrisisall


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Tuesday, September 7, 2010 3:37 PM

KLESST


I don't like the idea of burning books of any kind but if it's not insensitive to build a Mosque at ground zero, it's not insensitive to burn the Quran. The only logical reason to defend one and condemn the other is because it might cause wacky muslims to kill more innocents. I wish they'd just use their Qurans for toilet paper in the privacy of their own homes like I do.

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Tuesday, September 7, 2010 5:01 PM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by Klesst:
I don't like the idea of burning books of any kind but if it's not insensitive to build a Mosque at ground zero, it's not insensitive to burn the Quran.


Excepting building a Mosque is a constructive act, and burning a book is a destructive act. It is not an issue of sensitivity. It is an issue of violence.

-----
“Burning a holy book, or any book for that matter (or the American Flag), to make a point is both contrary to everything we stand for and entirely Constitutional. " --- Hero, Sept 7, 2010
(The only time I can remember actually agreeing with Hero.)

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Tuesday, September 7, 2010 5:11 PM

WISHIMAY


Quote:

Originally posted by TDBrown:
OT: Japanese History Books rarely mention Pearl Harbor, but they do pay a lot of attention to Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Revisionist History of the highest order.

Just an observation...



Yes, I know. Pride is massively important with them, truth, however, is a slightly more negotiable aspect...

The only reason I bring up Pearl Harbor is my mo-in-law was there recently and she said it made her mad that there were asians there and they were *gasp* speakin' asian-type languages, how dare they! So it was on my brain...

My only point is that if EVERYONE were to attempt to annihilate or even to piss off a person or group that was offensive there would be NOTHING left. No one to fight with minus nothing to argue about equals... pointless! The older I get the more I understand the wisdom of "I agree to differ with you" (*caution* morbidly ironic statement here> Now if I could find me a big stick that says "I agree to differ with you" and beat my mo-in-law senseless until she gets with that I would be so much more at peace with my wisdom!!!


Mercy is the mark of a great man...Eh I'm allright...

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Tuesday, September 7, 2010 5:24 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:


Yes, I know. Pride is massively important with them, truth, however, is a slightly more negotiable aspect...



When you put it like that, you make them sound exactly like Republicans.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.


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Tuesday, September 7, 2010 5:43 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:


Yes, I know. Pride is massively important with them, truth, however, is a slightly more negotiable aspect...



When you put it like that, you make them sound exactly like Republicans.



And a few Democrats.


The laughing Chrisisall


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Tuesday, September 7, 2010 5:48 PM

WISHIMAY


Kwicko, your homework for tonight is to breath deeply and repeat in Ohm fashion:
I agree to differ with you
I agree to differ with you
I agree to differ with you

Might at least lower your blood pressure and in that way maybe you'll outlive your many, many opponents...

Considering they have most of the money and healthcare, you're gonna need the extra time!

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Tuesday, September 7, 2010 5:56 PM

MINCINGBEAST


Quote:

Originally posted by Klesst:
I don't like the idea of burning books of any kind but if it's not insensitive to build a Mosque at ground zero, it's not insensitive to burn the Quran. The only logical reason to defend one and condemn the other is because it might cause wacky muslims to kill more innocents. I wish they'd just use their Qurans for toilet paper in the privacy of their own homes like I do.



Poor choice for TP. Islam is rough, tough, and don't take no shit from no infidel.

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Tuesday, September 7, 2010 7:08 PM

WISHIMAY


Oh, that's great, I haven't thought about that joke since 1986!

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Wednesday, September 8, 2010 3:52 AM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Yes, I know. Pride is massively important with them, truth, however, is a slightly more negotiable aspect...


It's slightly more complicated than an issue of pride. Asiatic cultures have this concept of "face" and "losing face" which doesn't translate correctly into individualistic cultures of the west. Losing face is communal; when one person is shamed and loses face, everyone around to witness the shaming ALSO loses face, because it's uncomfortable and embarrassing for everyone involved.

There are groups in Japan who, as you say, want to cover up some of their bad actions in WW2 out of something more like nationalistic pride, but for the rest the reason they don't bring it up is shame.

Predictably, many of the nations Japan attacked and brutalized find this deeply offensive and do see it as an issue of pride, and the shamelessness of the boisterous nationalistic groups overshadows the quiet shame of the rest of Japan, which only muddles everything.

WW2 was a mess, everyone was bombing civilians everywhere. My inclination is to say Germany set the precedence, but I'm not 100% on that.

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Wednesday, September 8, 2010 6:27 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Well said, Byte, and from my observations, to a degree true of virually every society in Asia, tho' it seems to me strongest in Japan.

I think these actions are unconscionable...we abhor it when they burn our flag or a bible; to turn around and do the same is another indication that we are no better then the worst of THEM. I thought we were supposed to be this civilized, advanced society...riiight.

Sure it's their Constitutional right, that doesn't mean it's not stupid as hell and I find a HUGE difference in sensitivity between building a COMMUNITY CENTER open to all with facilities from which the entire neighborhood would benefit to burning books which are considered holy to an 1/5th of the world's population! I find no comparison whatsoever.

This is an attention-getting stunt, along the same lines as Geller distorting the COMMUNITY CENTER for attention. If we were what we stand for and people of conscience, we'd demonstrate right alongside wherever they're burning the books and show the world JUST what a minority of our own radicals they are and how we disagree with them.

These are CHRISTIANS? No wonder I hate organized religions...they excuse any kind of behavior by those who loudly claim they "follow God".

We can't consider ourselves above the barbarians until we stand up for what our country represents and let our condemnation be know of these attacks on mosques around the country, attacks on MUSLIMS, twisting laws to refuse the building of mosques, and this atrocity.

I believe in standing up for my country, not excusing idiots like this or the others and I'm disgusted (but maybe you already got that). It's their constitutional right, but it's ours to condemn it as well.

And I'm doubly pissed that these so-called Christians don't give a shit if it causes the death of OTHER Christians just so they can raise a stink. They disgust me.

As an aside, bringing political parties into this is as dumb as when "other" people do so; it has nothing whatsoever to do with politics, it has to do with America. So THERE!


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Wednesday, September 8, 2010 6:39 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Mark Morford says it for me, and far more eloquently:
Quote:

Way out there on the wicked, broken fringes of society, those ugly and savage edges that always seem to be moving ever closer to the mainstream and appear more dangerous to the collective soul than ever, there live some masterful miscreants of the human drama, bizarre creatures so moldy and low they can't but help you see the world anew.

You can, for example, happily read about the latest wanderings of Fred Phelps' adorable "God Hates Fags" cluster of manure clumps from the Westboro Baptist Church in Topeka, Kan., right now picketing everything from military funerals to high school musicals, Laramie Project lectures to various modest Christian churches that dare to promote tolerance and love. Phelps and his little bucket 'o bile are widely considered the finest freakshow in all of Nutball Godsville.

Then again, competition abounds. Perhaps you've read about that other amoral chunk of anti-spiritual razor wire named Terry Jones, a leathery little Florida pastor with his tiny flock of 50 whack-nut imbeciles who've decided to go forth with their T-shirt-ready "Burn a Quran" day on September 11th? Talk about your genius marketing. I predict a new reality show.

Jones' charmingly repulsive event has not only outraged the easily outraged fundamentalist fringes of Afghanistan (really, it doesn't take much) but also a very unhappy American general who thinks Jones' flagrant idiocy could endanger the lives of American soldiers. Not bad for a shriveled, pea-sized soul from Florida, eh Terry? Jesus would be so proud.

Don't stop just yet. What about that (now-ex) Tea Party slug named Tim Ravndal, suddenly infamous for posting a sweet little joke on Facebook about lynching gay people to death -- a thoughtful reference to Matthew Shepard -- because apparently Ravndal's God-given right to be a tiny-brained macho cockroach from Montana are threatened by the fact that some people are far more secure in their sexuality than he will ever be? Oh, Tea Party, will your nefarious gifts never cease?

On it devolves. How low do you want to go? Nazi skinheads? Black Tea Party inverto-racists? The 57 percent of Republicans who think Obama is a Muslim? Feverish Glenn Beck sycophants loading up the pickup truck with shotguns and Coors Light, on their way to take out an abortion clinic or maybe a Gay Pride parade, but who take the wrong exit and/or drive into a wall because they can't read the GPS?

Comedic horrors thrive, moronism seems to inbreed and fester, and most of it manifests under the banner of a mutant Christian God, or extreme conservatism, or some form of fundamentalist moral outrage that can't exactly be explained but which often makes its most devout adherents appear to be nothing more than frenetic fleas sucking blood from the Great Hound of life. The beast merely scratches and sighs, and keeps right on gnawing the bone of eternity.

Perhaps you stop to ponder, as I occasionally do, the curious fact that you never read about, say, a die-hard Richard Dawkins fanatic going off hinge and orchestrating a marvelous "Burn A Bible, Save A Kitten" protest event. Or perhaps a Unitarian Church minister commanding her flock to load up their Priuses with Ecstasy and rum to go spike the punch at the Mormon Tabernacle Choir sing-along. Wouldn't that be fun? Wouldn't that make a powerful counter-statement? Damn right it would.

Where is the liberal outrage? Where are the extreme acts of radical love? Where is the crazed "Daily Show" fan secretly planning to dump 10,000 gallons of Astroglide on Fox News HQ because Jon Stewart appeared in a pot-induced fever dream and ordered them to?

I still await the hippie liberal apocalypse. I still await my fellow progressives gathering at the Lincoln Memorial in calmly organized outrage, armed with Sigg bottles full of Cabernet and copies of the New Yorker, demanding free iPads for the poor and more compound sentences on CNN. Hell, I just came back from that infamous neo-pagan antichrist orgy known as Burning Man, and all I got was this lousy glow stick.

Oh, the hardcore lefty fringe has its violent cretins, to be sure, natty Earth Firsters to slavering PETA blood hurlers, eco-terrorists and freako off-grid cults, but those groups never claim to be a vital part of the Democratic Party. Liberalism does not depend on terrible education rates to survive.

The GOP, on the other hand, sucks hard from the teat of ignorant extremism, splashes gleefully in the shallow mud puddles of Sarah Palin's battered grammar, draws much of its power from the worst the human spectacle has to offer. Simply put, the modern Republican Party would not exist without its army of high school dropouts drunk on Rush Limbaugh and sexual dread. It's not difficult to imagine "Burn a Quran Day" becoming a new Texas state holiday.

What to make of it? After all, the world has always been speckled with rabid clowns, an endless parade of spittle-flecked sociopaths that make us shudder and sigh, many with "Reverend" before their names or "Show" just after it. American culture is rife with worldviews so narrow and poorly educated, you can be quickly convinced we are but an inch from permanent insanity.

Or maybe not. I prefer to think of these fine denizens of dumb as the darker, skankier parts of our individual consciousness, the red flags of the soul. Should we not be grateful they exist? That they are here to remind us to be ever vigilant and wary? Hell yes we should.

After all, the Fred Phelps, the Glenn Becks, the Terry Jones of the world are but our basest natures made manifest, the bleakest, most paranoid, lazily ignorant parts of each and every one of us. Deny it at your peril. As Joseph Conrad once wrote, "the bitterest contradictions and the deadliest conflicts of the world are carried on in every individual breast capable of feeling and passion." He should know.

These wretched little demons, they are eternal. They have always been here. And they exist to deliver but one message: If you're not conscious, if you don't pay attention, if you don't fill your cup to brimming every single day with laughter and paradox, love and possibility, if you don't deeply appreciate the madhouse irony of this completely gorgeous, impossibly ruthless human experiment, well, they will but fester like a sore on your big toe, and you'll no longer be able to dance.

They fester...but not for long and only sometimes, and I'm still able to dance.

Strange little species...


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Wednesday, September 8, 2010 7:37 AM

BYTEMITE


I contest that reports of moronism might represent a group as a whole, especially large groups such as liberals or conservatives.

You would have to prove that both groups engage in profound stupidity everyday. Believing the respective party line doesn't count. That's something people are TRAINED to do more than they CHOOSE to do it.

I think most people, whatever their education level, are well adjusted enough to CARE about the consequences of their actions and to try not shoot themselves (or allies by proxy) in the foot, literally or metaphorically. I also suspect such notions are rare and not often acted upon, so I give everyone a couple free passes for accidents or temporary lapses in wisdom/sanity.

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Wednesday, September 8, 2010 8:47 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Or perhaps a Unitarian Church minister commanding her flock to load up their Priuses with Ecstasy and rum to go spike the punch at the Mormon Tabernacle Choir sing-along. Wouldn't that be fun? Wouldn't that make a powerful counter-statement? Damn right it would.


Hoo lordy, I've actually DONE something like that, only it was vodka, not rum, and E is nasty shit better left alone, and yes, I did it to Mormons...

The fact that I am "officially" a Unitarian lay priest makes that comment even funnier.

But for all their other flaws Mormons are comparitively laid back, as opposed to the festering little balls of hate that are Baptists, or worse, Evangelicals - them folk seriously need to lighten up cause they're wrapped so tight if you *did* spike the punch they would explode in an inferno of the petty backstabbing, backbiting, and hate-hate-hate which seems wrapped around every aspect of thier little lives - at least the damn Pentacostals are like, OBVIOUSLY crazy and so have that excuse...

Of course, the feeling is entirely mutual cause the local Baptists have it in for me even though I didn't *DO* nothin to em but hire a lawyer for my self-adopted bratling, all of it, from getting roughed up by her, to getting caught burglarizing the neighborhood, to fencing the stolen property, is stuff THEY did - but of course when was the last time one of these religious fuckheads took any responsibility for their own actions anyways, neh ?

Worse is that their stupid-ass religion pervades our government to the point where they can use it to bend politicians to their whim in open defiance of the law - American Taliban, baby, you know it.

It's not a "hate crime" to beat the shit out of a pack of would-be rapists who've barged into your home and clearly announced that intent, just because they're Baptists.
(This is their latest stunt, mind you)

Nah, if I was gonna slip something in the Baptists punch, it'd be a handful of fuckin quaaludes, cause they seriously need some!
Uptight pricks, the lot of em.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Wednesday, September 8, 2010 9:21 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



On the one hand, we have Muslims fussing over an event which has yet to take place, and still may not. ( hope it won't, at least ) But I have to laugh at the childish tantrum Islam displays, and the " NOW look what you've made us do ! " mindset.

I'd suggest that Muslims around the world burn an equal number of Bibles, but the truth of it is, they can't. Seems the Bible is illegal in many parts of the world where Islam rules. That's worth at least a bit of a chuckle, I think.









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Wednesday, September 8, 2010 9:48 AM

BYTEMITE


They're burning flags instead. :/ It's troubling because the implication is they clearly see the U.S. as homogeneously Christian.

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Wednesday, September 8, 2010 9:56 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
They're burning flags instead. :/ It's troubling because the implication is they clearly see the U.S. as homogeneously Christian.



Gotta love the dichotomy here. When Islamo- extremists do something or more likely slay some innocents, we're TOLD that it's only the kook , radical fringe, and that " real " Muslims don't condone such actions.

Here, before a single Quran has been singed, everyone from the Pope , President Obama, our military leaders, to Mayor Bloomberg has come out against Preacher Jones. Which is funny, because book burning IS an expression of free speech, no one would deny that, but we all agree that it's just stupid.




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Wednesday, September 8, 2010 10:37 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I'm not sure what you mean about Mormons represent a groupo as a whole. I was a "dunked" Mormon for a while (thank gawd I got out post haste when I discovered their racism!), and what I saw was lockstep obedience; my husband comes from Idaho and we visted back there frequently, what I saw was lockstep obedience. Hell, if you weren't a Mormon in Burley, Idaho, your business GOT no business! One of his relatives even converted just so his insurance business would thrive. (This person, now dead, was a festering mound of ego, our only references to him were "He of whom we do not speak"...nonetheless...)

I admit, I'm prejudiced. How people can name themselves things like "Loveall" (my best friend at the time) is suspicious to me, when they at the time allowed no Blacks to join!

While there are good and caring Mormons, there are in every religion, but the exclusivity and insular nature of Mormonism makes it something between a religion and a cult, from what I've observed. JUST my own take on them.

I agree that I, too, believe “most” people aren’t like the examples given...but I would modify that to “most people who THINK”, and I believe there are an awful lot who don’t, who react emotionally and can be manipulated easily into giving in to those basest aspects.
Quote:

Worse is that their stupid-ass religion pervades our government to the point where they can use it to bend politicians to their whim in open defiance of the law - American Taliban, baby, you know it.
For me, the evangelicals, born-againers and “religious right” are the Talibanistic religions in America...if they had the power, I think we’d find a correlation to the kind of theocracy they “enjoy” in some Muslim countries.

Raptor:
Quote:

we have Americans fussing over an event which has yet to take place (the proposed community center), and still may not. But I have to laugh at the childish tantrum some Americans display.
I agree. Pathetic, isn't it?

Byte:
Quote:

they see the U.S. as homogeneously Christian
Yes, that disturbs me too. Both in that it is an example of how the rest of the world sees us, and that I am very UNChristian and resent being cobbled with them.

Again, Raptor:
Quote:

Here, before a single stone has been laid, everyone from the Pope, President Obama (don't think he didn't, saying he wouldn't comment on "how wise" it was is pretty clear), our political leaders to average citizens have come out against the community center. Which is funny, because building on your own property IS an expression of property rights, no one would deny that, but so many agree that it's just stupid.
Unfortunately, we don’t “all” agree it’s “stupid” in this case; the defamation of ACTUAL mosques, refusal of permits and violence against Muslims show that there are more than a few of us who can’t see past our noses, and the defense of both property rights and freedom of religion by some of us put us, I’m afraid, in the minority. So the minority over here stands up for our principles and recognizes the manipulation of even calling a community center a "mosque", while the majority of Muslims can see this Qu’ran burning as the actions of a few nutwings. Interesting

What exactly is the point between them stating flatly that they WILL proceed with the burning of the Qu’rans, despite everything, and their actually doing it? I fail to see any difference.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Wednesday, September 8, 2010 10:58 AM

BYTEMITE


I've lived in both Utah and Idaho, and strangely enough, I'd say Idaho has more intolerant Mormons than Utah does. In Idaho, they would actually make a big deal if you weren't part of the church, even among children as young as five. I suspect this is because not many people have any reason to go to Idaho. Only slightly more have reason to go to Utah, but it seems to be enough introduced diversity to make a difference attitude wise.

Most of the Mormons I've met here, the worst you can say about them is that they're stepford smilers. Utah Mormons are pretty quick to send aid to foreign countries, and though their missionaries can be annoying, and though some of them make dumb decisions like running off trying to save a bunch of Haitian kids before they even know if the parents are alive or not, they at least mean well and don't withhold aid for any reason.

This is of course not including Fundamentalist Mormons, who I don't think I've met any but I understand they're quite a bit more mistrustful and inclusive.

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Wednesday, September 8, 2010 11:31 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Niki -

Preacher Jones is nuts. But that doesn't mean he's not clever enough to milk this for all it's worth, either. He's getting more publicity for his cult of a church than he'd ever could have dreamed.

He said, briefly, that he'd pray on this matter and listen to what God says. ( what are the odds God will say "Nah, don't burn the devil's book", and it'll sound exactly like Preacher Jones' own voice? )

You see, there was at least a pretense of a chance that this Quran BBQ might not take place, ( and if you believe in miracles, there still is ). With the Victory Mosque, Imam Rauf is committed, now more than ever, to build. Seems his tax payer fund raiser ..errr... 'good will' tour to the Mid East gave him all the support he feel he needs. Screw the building bridges crap.... it's time to rub our noses in 9/11 !!

As for your twisting and rewriting of my words ...all I have to say about that is - wow. If that's a window into how your mind works, then it's no wonder you have issues with reality.






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Wednesday, September 8, 2010 11:33 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


That's good to know. I will remember it. I'm fully aware I'm prejudiced, but it's my experiences that made me so. And having been one, the shock of their racist ideology was a horrific one to me and something I can never forgive.

Nor can I forgive their manipulation of Prop. 8. It would have been a whole different outcome, were it not for the Mormons and their money.

Fundamentalist Mormons are to me purely a cult. Polygammy, for one thing, and of course many of us know about the "lost boys", where leaders eject males when they reach puberty so as to minimize competition for "wives", make them a cult to me.

I loved the "Stepford Smilers"...man, is that right on! I think in part I resentt the tithing, since my observation of it was that even children had to "tithe" part of their allowance...maybe it's a good lesson for adulthood, but it just seems wrong to me, especially in that I mistrust strongly organized religions' choices of what to do with their money.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Wednesday, September 8, 2010 11:49 AM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

That's good to know. I will remember it. I'm fully aware I'm prejudiced, but it's my experiences that made me so. And having been one, the shock of their racist ideology was a horrific one to me and something I can never forgive.

Nor can I forgive their manipulation of Prop. 8. It would have been a whole different outcome, were it not for the Mormons and their money.



Valid points.

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Wednesday, September 8, 2010 5:44 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Well, of course I don't deal with the pricks cause they get short-shrift from me, especially the racists among them, but every belief system has it's dickheads, even pagans, hell, ESPECIALLY pagans, never let em tell ya different, cause they like to pretend that shit don't happen in obscure belief systems, yeah, right...

Polygamy don't bother me so long as everyone involved is ok with it - but certain elements within their belief turned and used that in some seriously evil fashions, as I'm sure you're both well aware, and many folk paid for it dearly, all too often the wrong ones, but that's the way such goes - too many refused to stand up cause they did not want to question, and thus the wrath fell upon them as well, but that business was ugly enough I'd rather not talk about it no more...

And as for stepford smilers, I note how quick the women are to blame ALL that shit on the men, as if they don't have their own games - emotional blackmail, sabotage, all manner of interpersonal drama and pecking order bullshit - nobody makes em do that, they choose to do that, cause the men aren't the only ones playing a dirty game here, so when the women come forward and try to play the doe eyed innocents I wouldn't be so quick to buy that shit if I were you, they're NOT as innocent as they claim, most of em, and pointing the finger in one direction without ever admitting their own culpability in this garbage is both hypocritical and a big part of why it continues - many of em, they played the game, lost out, and THEN point the finger, when if they had any decency, or wanted any credibility from me, they'd have never played it in the first damned place.

Like any other religion, everyone's guilty of something - at least Vajrayana admit it right up front and laugh at thier own hypocrisy.

Anyhows, while I won't deal with the wackjobs of em I am well aware of it, although my current contact with em is damn strange even for them, I didn't know mormons were capable of sarcasm, but Melma's so good at it most folk never catch on anyways.

He's kinda their revenge for me accidently subverting and co-opting some of their people - they're still a lil pissed about that, but what the hell did they expect ?

-Frem
I do not serve the Blind God.

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Wednesday, September 8, 2010 6:18 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

And as for stepford smilers, I note how quick the women are to blame ALL that shit on the men, as if they don't have their own games - emotional blackmail, sabotage, all manner of interpersonal drama and pecking order bullshit - nobody makes em do that, they choose to do that, cause the men aren't the only ones playing a dirty game here, so when the women come forward and try to play the doe eyed innocents I wouldn't be so quick to buy that shit if I were you, they're NOT as innocent as they claim, most of em, and pointing the finger in one direction without ever admitting their own culpability in this garbage is both hypocritical and a big part of why it continues - many of em, they played the game, lost out, and THEN point the finger, when if they had any decency, or wanted any credibility from me, they'd have never played it in the first damned place.


Like Mitchell, his wife, and Elizabeth Smart. Dunno if any of you remember that, but wifey helped the husband kidnap I think she was a thirteen year old back then from her own house to force her into a marriage/sexual relationship. Now they're on trial, they both say they're crazy... probably no more than religion makes anyone crazy. I say it was a power trip and first wifey politicking for primacy in Mitchell's future harem.

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Wednesday, September 8, 2010 10:29 PM

CATPIRATE


Stupid is all, how does that put our troops at risk. There are already getting shot at. I love how you libs care about the troops when the muslims are offended. Cause cause what about the troops give me a damn break you and nike. Going away out to defend some stinky rag heads. Why don't they smile? You trust them as a baby sitter. I don't think so. Have ya ever seen these commune centers. They look like a prison shack. GO visit see how welcomed ya our.

Standing Order 154 prohibits me from assisting you. But my crew can. Hans load the machine guns.

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Thursday, September 9, 2010 1:32 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Redneck Islam Inferno

To my surprise
75 jars of pig's feet high
People gett'n ready, um um.....

(chorus) I heard somebody say "burn Koran burn"
Islam Inferno!
Burn Koran burn, burn the holy book down.

Pastor has just two teeth
Preachin' the Lord's revenge is sweet
Churchgoers gettn' ready to tithe, oh yeah....

(chorus) I heard somebody say "burn Koran burn"
Islam Inferno!
Burn Koran burn, burn the holy book down
Burn Koran burn
Islam Inferno!
Burn Koran burn, burned their own church to the ground.







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