REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Korean War?

POSTED BY: ANTHONYT
UPDATED: Wednesday, November 24, 2010 10:51
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VIEWED: 918
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Tuesday, November 23, 2010 5:40 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

Did the Koreas just start shooting at each other?

--Anthony



Assured by friends that the signal-to-noise ratio has improved on this forum, I have disabled web filtering.

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Tuesday, November 23, 2010 6:07 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

Did the Koreas just start shooting at each other?




If I were a conspiracy theorist-ist I would say we're trying to get the South to provoke the North so we can move our army men into their country and blow it up. Further proof: I did a google maps and NK is not that far out of the way if we bring our guys home.

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Tuesday, November 23, 2010 6:09 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

So you don't think North Korea fired at South Korea?
You think we did it?

I'm not sure I can make that leap.

--Anthony



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Tuesday, November 23, 2010 7:03 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

So you don't think North Korea fired at South Korea?
You think we did it?

I'm not sure I can make that leap.



Just wild speculation on my part.

- Both sides are saying the other fired first, so far our media is reporting that the North fired first. BBC News says:

"South Korea says it has returned fire after North Korea fired dozens of artillery shells at one of its border islands, killing two marines.

Pyongyang accused the South of firing first. The Southern military said it had conducted exercises but shelling was directed away from the North."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-11818005

Interesting admission that last bit, eh? Makes it sound like the South fired first but with slightly bad aim. Funny how that aim was at NK.

Asking myself what either one has to gain by shooting at the other and I can't imagine a positive scenario. If I broaden the number of players it starts to make sense. Didn't we just find out that NK has an unexpectedly advanced nuclear program?

I wonder if Obama has heard about this yet.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Tuesday, November 23, 2010 8:06 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


More from the BBC:

Quote:

North Korea's supreme military command blamed South Korea for the incident.

'The South Korean enemy, despite our repeated warnings, committed reckless military provocations of firing artillery shells into our maritime territory near Yeonpyeong island beginning 1300 (0400 GMT)," the state-run KCNA news agency quoted it as saying.

The North would "continue to make merciless military attacks with no hesitation if the South Korean enemy dares to invade our sea territory by 0.001mm", it warned.

"It is our military's traditional response to quell provocative actions with a merciless thunderbolt."



There is a strong suggestion that this is motivated a lot by the North's internal politics, and the succession of Kim Jong Il.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Tuesday, November 23, 2010 9:03 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

"Pyongyang accused the South of firing first. The Southern military said it had conducted exercises but shelling was directed away from the North."



That puts a bit of a different perspective on it, doesn't it?

These kinds of military wargames and exercises seem designed to provoke incidents, as if they're TRYING to get the other guys to shoot back, in order to give them the "justification" to go to war with them.

And, of course, there's always the possibility that the South did indeed fire first, but AWAY from the North, and some hot-headed North Korean field commander, in a fit of panic or rage, decided to fire back. Doesn't necessarily mean the orders came from on high. Anyone with command and control authority over the artillery pieces could likely order them to fire without getting permission from the Dear Leader...

Either way, this has the capability to get real ugly, real fast, if both sides don't step lightly right now.

This Space For Rent!

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Tuesday, November 23, 2010 10:43 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by pizmobeach:

Quote:


Pyongyang accused the South of firing first. The Southern military said it had conducted exercises but shelling was directed away from the North."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-11818005



Interesting admission that last bit, eh? Makes it sound like the South fired first but with slightly bad aim. Funny how that aim was at NK.



What about the South saying it fired away from the North makes you think " Interesting admission " ??

Weird.

This, after the North has already killed nearly 50 South sailors, in sinking a frigate ... how do you blame the SK for this ? Even a little ?




" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, November 23, 2010 10:49 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Why is this our problem?

Nk knows we can flatten them if they frack with us.



"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

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Tuesday, November 23, 2010 10:50 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Does this mean M*A*S*H is coming back?





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Tuesday, November 23, 2010 11:28 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

We can flatten most anyone. (Though that doesn't win conflicts by itself.)

But do we want to? Can we afford to? If war does break out, what will our response and responsibility be?

I do not want to put this nation into yet another war.

--Anthony


Assured by friends that the signal-to-noise ratio has improved on this forum, I have disabled web filtering.

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Tuesday, November 23, 2010 11:30 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Does this mean M*A*S*H is coming back?



Mercifully, Hot Lips has long since retired.




" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, November 23, 2010 11:35 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by pizmobeach:

Quote:


Pyongyang accused the South of firing first. The Southern military said it had conducted exercises but shelling was directed away from the North."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-11818005



Interesting admission that last bit, eh? Makes it sound like the South fired first but with slightly bad aim. Funny how that aim was at NK.



What about the South saying it fired away from the North makes you think " Interesting admission " ??




Why even admit that you were testing in the area? And did they realize that by doing so just about everyone would come to the same conclusion that we did = weak excuse and Provocation? Just seems like the kind of thing that either way, you let someone else bring up first.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Tuesday, November 23, 2010 11:38 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


If you've got nothing to hide, why lie ?

S.Korea admitted they were testing. They're fully in their right to test.

What's the point in denying it?

It wasn't the South that shelled another country, it was the North.

What's the fuss over this ?



" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, November 23, 2010 12:16 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Interesting how some people are quick to mistrust the government in some ways, yet in others are quite happy to believe it's in the right, when a conspiracy might just as well exist as in other matters.

Me, I don't think it takes much to have either rside go after the other or provoke the other. I don't think it's a conspiracy engendered by our government for the simple reason that our government has stretched its military and has quite enough things to deal with right now, but I could be wrong.

How we'll DEAL with it is a far more important question, for me.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Tuesday, November 23, 2010 12:24 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I find this more interesting:
Quote:

Why did this happen?

Tension has been running particularly high in the Korean peninsula after the March 26 sinking of the South Korean warship Cheonan. Tuesday's incident, however, is one of the most serious that has occurred in recent years.

The hostilities come as North Korea is undergoing transition -- the ailing and reclusive leader Kim Jong Il is believed to be in the process of transferring power to his son Kim Jong Un. Some analysts believe upcoming internal changes have prompted North Korea to flex its military muscle in recent days.

Tuesday's violence was also preceded by the revelation of a North Korean uranium enrichment program.

Has this happened before?

Yes, Yeonpyeong Island has come under attack before. Last January, South Korea reported that the North had fired shells that fell in waters north of the Northern Limit Line, the de facto inter-Korean maritime border.

North Korea wants that border redrawn farther south.

Over the past six decades, small-scale skirmishes have flared repeatedly along both land and sea borders as each state aims to reunify the peninsula according to its own terms and system of government. Deadly naval clashes occurred along the demarcation line in 1999, 2002 and 2009.

Will the two nations go to war?

South Korea put its military on high alert following Tuesday's exchange of fire. But whether that will translate into further military action is impossible to predict.

Events in the past few months suggested a slight thawing of icy relations.

North and South Korea had begun discussions on the possible resumption of reunions of family members separated by the Korean war and North Korea has requested military talks. In early September, the South offered food aid to the impoverished North for the first time in three years.

Given the closed nature of North Korean politics, it's hard to tell what changes the new leadership of Kim Jong Un will entail or whether re-engagement is on the table. Another wild card is the influence of China; some South Koreans fear a Chinese takeover in the event of a North Korean collapse.

Some analysts viewed Tuesday's exchange as North Korea flexing its military muscle in the light of its leadership transition. Others said it was related to the nuclear issue.

How will nuclear talks be affected?

Washington accuses Pyongyang of running a secret uranium-based nuclear program. The United States, along with the two Koreas, Russia, Japan and China, have been involved in what is called the Six Party Talks.

But those talks have been slow and arduous and in limbo since 2008. And after the revelation of the North Korean uranium enrichment facility a few days ago, the resumption of talks seemed in jeopardy.

Stephen Bosworth, the U.S. special envoy on North Korean denuclearization, said Tuesday's hostilities will prove a further obstacle.

Choi Jin-wook, senior researcher at the Korea Institute of National Unification, said the North is "frustrated with Washington's response to their uranium program and they think that Washington has almost given up on negotiations with North Korea."

"I think they realize they can't expect anything from Washington or Seoul for several months, so I think they made the provocation," Choi said.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/11/23/cronin.korea.artillery/index.htm
l?hpt=T1
Quote:

The first responsibility of the United States must remain the preservation of deterrence from outright return to war. The attacks leave the alliance with few good options for reprisal without risking a far less desirable renewal of conflict.

The United States must work with South Korea to bolster deterrence, check North Korean aggression and be ready to turn it back, but only if absolutely necessary. We will also have to operate without fully understanding the power at play in North Korea.

This year has already been a deadly one as an ailing Kim Jong Il accelerated the likely dynastic transition in power to an ill-prepared son who will be captive to aging generals in the Korean People's Army. In April, 46 South Korean crew members aboard the naval vessel Cheonan died when the vessel was ripped in two by a North Korean torpedo.

Much more at http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/11/23/cronin.korea.artillery/index.htm
l?hpt=T1




Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Tuesday, November 23, 2010 12:25 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
If you've got nothing to hide, why lie ?

S.Korea admitted they were testing. They're fully in their right to test.

What's the point in denying it?




By the same token, maybe North Korea was testing as well. Maybe they were testing whether or not their artillery could hit that particular island. The results are in: IT CAN!

This Space For Rent!

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Tuesday, November 23, 2010 12:32 PM

WHOZIT


Barry's going to with that he and his telepromter had stayed in the Senate.

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Tuesday, November 23, 2010 1:12 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


NK tests nuclear weapons ? meh

NK tests long rang rockets ? meh.

NK sinks a SK frigate ? meh

But S. Korea tests some artillery shells, in the open water?

PROVOCATION !!

ATTACK !!

( Hillary's 3AM call is sounding awfully prophetic... )




" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Wednesday, November 24, 2010 5:00 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


Because we don't know any other way to react...

U.S. to Send Carrier for Joint Exercises Off Korea

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/25/world/asia/25korea.html?_r=1&hp

"President Obama and South Korea’s president agreed Tuesday night to hold joint military exercises as a first response to North Korea’s deadly shelling of a South Korean military installation, as both countries struggled for the second time this year to keep a North Korean provocation from escalating into war.

The exercise will include sending the aircraft carrier George Washington and a number of accompanying ships into the region, both to deter further attacks by the North and to signal to China that unless it reins in its unruly ally it will see an even larger American presence in the vicinity.

The decision came after Mr. Obama attended the end of an emergency session in the White House Situation Room and then emerged to call President Lee Myung-bak of South Korea to express American solidarity and talk about a coordinated response." ... in which Mr. Obama was TOLD what to do next by the Joint Chiefs...

So we'll have our own floating group of targets there just in case (maybe "we hope?") the North "accidentally" gets trigger happy.

You all been great, I'm off to the stow to buy can goods. Sell all your stocks, the sky is falling, etc, etc...

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Wednesday, November 24, 2010 5:29 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


"President Obama and South Korea’s president agreed Tuesday night to hold joint military exercises as a first response to North Korea’s deadly shelling of a South Korean military installation, as both countries struggled for the second time this year to keep a North Korean provocation from escalating into war.


Really?

THIS is 'hope and change' ??


Yeah. This should go well.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Wednesday, November 24, 2010 5:40 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

The U.S. is sending military forces to the region in support of S. Korea to reinforce the idea that we will stand by our allies and treaties in times of crisis.

This is something I expected, and is indeed a 'business as usual' response.

I worry about the possible outcome. While not officially stated, I hope the carrier has the unofficial duty of ensuring that *neither* side does something stupid. i.e. that our carrier will keep an eye on South Korea as well.

--Anthony

Assured by friends that the signal-to-noise ratio has improved on this forum, I have disabled web filtering.

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Wednesday, November 24, 2010 6:17 AM

KANEMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by pizmobeach:

Quote:


Pyongyang accused the South of firing first. The Southern military said it had conducted exercises but shelling was directed away from the North."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-11818005



Interesting admission that last bit, eh? Makes it sound like the South fired first but with slightly bad aim. Funny how that aim was at NK.



What about the South saying it fired away from the North makes you think " Interesting admission " ??

Weird.

This, after the North has already killed nearly 50 South sailors, in sinking a frigate ... how do you blame the SK for this ? Even a little ?




" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "




How does the gay muslim blame the south? Really? The south is America's friend and Kwicko hates America. He'll take sides with terrorists, commies, and anything as long as it is anti-American. You do know Kwicko is not from Texas, right? Check his Ip it is from France.

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Wednesday, November 24, 2010 10:51 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Dum dum dum dum (theme from Jaws)...

Whither to, next?


The carrier strike group led by the USS George Washington (pictured) is steaming towards the Korean peninsula.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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