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atheist billboard

POSTED BY: NEWOLDBROWNCOAT
UPDATED: Saturday, December 4, 2010 07:34
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Tuesday, November 30, 2010 9:23 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


http://news.yahoo.com/s/atlantic/20101130/cm_atlantic/atheistbillboard
onnativitysceneyouknowitsamyth5979


So this atheist organization rented a billboard, put up a Nativity scene, and a BIG caption, " You know it's just a myth."

I'm surprised there hasn't been a bigger reaction.

Mrs NOBC put it well: " Yes, but it's a nice myth..."

Thoughts pro or con?


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Tuesday, November 30, 2010 9:39 AM

BLUEHANDEDMENACE


To quote a certain talkative spaceship pilot, "Wow, good myth"

This kinda thing used to be considered subversive...but with how hostile our national dialogue has become, it seems almost tame.

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Tuesday, November 30, 2010 9:44 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Yeah, I heard about this one. Yes, it does seem rather tame, but also in my opinion disgusting. We really need to increase the level of hostility, not lessen it, don't we? (/snark)

I actually chose not to put this piece of news up here, because I found it offensive to any Christians we have here. I guess that expresses my opinion on the matter.

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/images/static/012616_billboard.JPG

Prosletizing is something I have a real negative feeling about, and this is kind of atheist prosletizing, which is no different from any other. Totally unnecessary and in very bad taste, as far as I'm concerned. About as bad as putting up a billboard saying "Islam is a violent political agenda, not a religion".


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Tuesday, November 30, 2010 10:09 AM

THEHAPPYTRADER


Seems kind of pointless really. I thought billboards were supposed to advertise for something. I wonder what they get out of that. Just reinforces the stereotype of the arrogant pseudo-intellectual 'I don't understand you so you must be wrong' atheist.

I agree with the that one commented,it's not particularly daring either. it's become popular to poke at Christians cause they're generally not prone to do much about it, 'sides turn the other cheek and all. I wonder what would happen if they did something like that concerning Islam...

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Tuesday, November 30, 2010 10:19 AM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by TheHappyTrader:
Seems kind of pointless really.

The Christians will ignore it. The Atheists already believe it.

But it might appeal to fence-riders, agnostics, the undecided voters.

If someone wants war and controversy, they should try that with the Global Warming theme. Or conventional medicine. Or alternative medicine. Or anything else people REALLY believe in. "You know it's a myth."

--Can't Take (my gorram) Sky

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Tuesday, November 30, 2010 11:07 AM

DREAMTROVE


It may not be what it appears. I often find myself driving through an area and thinking "gee, this is really a Christian area" or "people sure are republican around here," etc. If you had a lot of billboards going up in your area that left that impression, you might do something like this as damage control.

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Tuesday, November 30, 2010 12:10 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Billboard trolling - gee, how novel... not.

At least burma shave provided some amusement with it, not that most folk'd remember those.

-F

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Tuesday, November 30, 2010 12:15 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Oh, Frem, those were SO great! I remember them, and remember being impressed at the ingenuity. Would that we had more like THAT, rather than the gigantic scenery-ruining pieces of shit.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Tuesday, November 30, 2010 12:54 PM

TRAVELER


I remember Burma Shave. Those small signs along the highways entertained us on long road trips.




http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=28764731
Traveler

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Tuesday, November 30, 2010 5:00 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,


You want a world,

That doesn't Stink?

You need to change,

The way you Think.

Burma Shave.



Yes, I am the Same

As those I Despise.

I feel you should See

The World with My Eyes.

Burma Shave.



I love Burma Shave ads much more than billboards that push Religion or Atheism.

--Anthony











Assured by friends that the signal-to-noise ratio has improved on this forum, I have disabled web filtering.

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Tuesday, November 30, 2010 5:10 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


To quote Richard B Riddick...


" I might have gone
a different way."



Because smacking the dumb masses upside the the head w/ the 2x4 of reality so seldom works. ( Certainly doesn't seem to work here, if my efforts are any indication )






" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, November 30, 2010 6:47 PM

FREMDFIRMA



I prefer to refer to it as using a Clue-by-Four.


And yes, Burma Shave ads rocked - now there's an advert campaign worth whatever they paid for it!

-F

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Wednesday, December 1, 2010 9:11 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by TheHappyTrader:
Seems kind of pointless really. I thought billboards were supposed to advertise for something. I wonder what they get out of that. Just reinforces the stereotype of the arrogant pseudo-intellectual 'I don't understand you so you must be wrong' atheist.

I agree with the that one commented,it's not particularly daring either. it's become popular to poke at Christians cause they're generally not prone to do much about it, 'sides turn the other cheek and all. I wonder what would happen if they did something like that concerning Islam...



So I have to ask...

What are the ones that say "We Need to Talk. - God" selling?

What stereotype (pseudo-intellectual or otherwise) are THEY reinforcing?

This Space For Rent!

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Wednesday, December 1, 2010 9:13 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

I prefer to refer to it as using a Clue-by-Four.


And yes, Burma Shave ads rocked - now there's an advert campaign worth whatever they paid for it!

-F




Maybe not - after all, where's Burma Shave NOW? ;)

But they were clever and memorable, I'll give ya that.

This Space For Rent!

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Wednesday, December 1, 2010 9:24 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Available via the American Safety Razor Company - having been re-introduced as it's own brand in 1997.

And I can even get ya the brush set, too!
http://www.amazon.com/Burma-Shave-Mug-Brush-Soap-Set/dp/B000XF8Q94

Is it bad that I was *waiting* for you to say that so I could spring that on ya ?

hee hee hee...

-F

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Wednesday, December 1, 2010 9:35 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


New idea for an ad campaign for Studebaker! Just bring 'em back amid all the fond remembrances of glories past (and I'm speaking of the Raymond Loewy-designed Studebaker Hawk series, of course)...

;)


But yeah, kinda kewl to see Burma Shave back in existence. Might have to get some next time I pick up some Teaberry's gum, too! :)

This Space For Rent!

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Wednesday, December 1, 2010 4:00 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


"What are the ones that say "We Need to Talk. - God" selling?"

Hello,

Isn't it the biggest business on Earth? Or at least close to it?

God is Money. And that works on multiple levels.

Atheism, by contrast, has a questionable revenue stream. How many Spaghetti Monster Plushies and bumper stickers can you sell?

Or do Atheists now gather in large temples to celebrate their fine logic while they pass around a collection plate? Are they sending Missionaries to Africa to unconvert the natives?

I don't think it's much of a business.

--Anthony




Assured by friends that the signal-to-noise ratio has improved on this forum, I have disabled web filtering.

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Wednesday, December 1, 2010 4:18 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
"What are the ones that say "We Need to Talk. - God" selling?"

Hello,

Isn't it the biggest business on Earth? Or at least close to it?

God is Money. And that works on multiple levels.

Atheism, by contrast, has a questionable revenue stream. How many Spaghetti Monster Plushies and bumper stickers can you sell?

Or do Atheists now gather in large temples to celebrate their fine logic while they pass around a collection plate? Are they sending Missionaries to Africa to unconvert the natives?

I don't think it's much of a business.

--Anthony




Assured by friends that the signal-to-noise ratio has improved on this forum, I have disabled web filtering.




Maybe they just decided they'd spend some of their money posting up the truth, regardless of whether or not they stand to make money off it.

Or should freedom of speech only apply to those who stand to profit from it?

Just something to ponder... or to pander...

This Space For Rent!

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Wednesday, December 1, 2010 4:37 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


"Or should freedom of speech only apply to those who stand to profit from it?"

Hello,

Not at all. Profit need not factor in, and not a dime need be considered.

Which is why I'm 'Free' to whinge about people on both sides of the aisle who push their beliefs, or lack thereof, on folks. ;-)

--Anthony


Assured by friends that the signal-to-noise ratio has improved on this forum, I have disabled web filtering.

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Wednesday, December 1, 2010 5:08 PM

DREAMTROVE


Quote:

Anthony
Atheism, by contrast, has a questionable revenue stream. How many Spaghetti Monster Plushies and bumper stickers can you sell?



You make an interesting point, but I think you just made the point that it *is* a market. How many Darwin Fish have you seen on cars? The thing is, religious logos remain the same for centuries.

Like, I can go all crouching tiger hidden dragon on it

but yin yang is still yin yang.

The atheist can come up with a new symbol for each fashion season. This year it was Coexist. The FSM is very 2006, so I'm not sure if it's every year. How many other atheist symbols have been marketed?

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Wednesday, December 1, 2010 8:12 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

Is Coexist atheist?

It looked more like an IDIC thing to me.

--Anthony


Assured by friends that the signal-to-noise ratio has improved on this forum, I have disabled web filtering.

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Thursday, December 2, 2010 2:51 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


yikes

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Thursday, December 2, 2010 2:51 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Yeah, I heard about this one. Yes, it does seem rather tame, but also in my opinion disgusting. We really need to increase the level of hostility, not lessen it, don't we? (/snark)

I actually chose not to put this piece of news up here, because I found it offensive to any Christians we have here. I guess that expresses my opinion on the matter.

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/images/static/012616_billboard.JPG

Prosletizing is something I have a real negative feeling about, and this is kind of atheist prosletizing, which is no different from any other. Totally unnecessary and in very bad taste, as far as I'm concerned. About as bad as putting up a billboard saying "Islam is a violent political agenda, not a religion".



I don't find it disgusting, Niki. Good on em, I say. A lot of atheists feel the need to keep their views to themselves, and I am sure that when they don't a lot of discrimination happens, hell, even I've felt it from time to time. We put up political slogans, religious slogans, we prosthletise on all sorts, why not this one. It's kind of a coming out that says 'it's okay to be vocal about your views.' I'm daily offended by people's mad views, but I also support their right to express whatever bunk they believe.

A billboard for reason. I like it.

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Thursday, December 2, 2010 5:58 PM

THEHAPPYTRADER


Quote:

So I have to ask...

What are the ones that say "We Need to Talk. - God" selling?

What stereotype (pseudo-intellectual or otherwise) are THEY reinforcing?



In my opinion, the the God billboards aren't as bad, but they also don't make much sense far as advertising goes. There's a difference between "We need to Talk" - God, and "You know it's a Myth right?" One is advocating for something you may or may not believe in, the other is much more negative, mocking to a large number of people's beliefs and dismissively referring to it as a myth.

As to what stereotype the God billboards are reinforcing... I guess the stereotype that God would care to rent Billboards?... They seem pretty short sweet and harmless for the most part. It's not like they say "I hate gays and lesbians" -God. More like, "That love thy neighbor thing, I meant it" - God. I view those signs as silly little jokes.

I suppose fundies could find it blasphemous that those signs claim to speak for God, if said fundies weren't too busy getting there tires slashed for driving to another town to be jackasses.

I don't think atheist should be ashamed of their belief/non-belief or feel they should have to hide it, but I do think it's every bit as disrespectful for them to tell someone their beliefs are wrong as is it is for the evangelicals tell someone they are going to hell for thinking differently.

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Thursday, December 2, 2010 6:07 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


You see that is the difference between atheists and believers in religious faith. Atheists don't have beliefs, they base their views on evidence. Religious people base their views on faith, that's probably why they all believe something different, but believe it they do, and quite vehemently.

Incidentally, atheists have to live their daily lives surrounded by symbols and statements of religious belief. i could be offended, if I so chose, by a crucufix symbol outside a church, because its a myth that has been shoved down our neck for generations. Its symbol is as potent as any statement, and yet even though I think its a myth dressed up as fact, I accept that people want it there and it means something to a lot of people.

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Thursday, December 2, 2010 6:20 PM

THEHAPPYTRADER


Magon, I don't entirely understand how you could find simple religious symbols offensive, but I'm not arrogant enough to assume that makes you wrong. I guessing you're offended at people who attempted to 'shove religion down your throat.' I'd remind you that the symbols belong to many people who aren't like that, but I'm pretty sure you already know that. Regardless, I think it's shiny that you can tolerate it. Tolerance is at the core of many religious beliefs, but unfortunately we don't see that so much in practice.

I find the sign offensive because it is not tolerant. It would be different if they put up some sign to the effect of "We don't need faith in a higher power to do great things" or something like that. While it advocates for something some people might take issue with, it does not assault a group of people's beliefs like the "You know it's a Myth right?" sign does.

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Thursday, December 2, 2010 7:39 PM

FREMDFIRMA



It's not the symbols I find so offensive, as much as they are representative of just how deeply that particular belief has it's bloody claws buried into every aspect of our society, up to and including being allowed to use our laws, our justice system, to enforce it upon anothers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_law

Imagine how that shit comes across to folk who do not SHARE those values, or find them offensive, or even consider them VICES ?

Not to mention folk like me, who are for a multitude of reasons actively *hostile* to the Christian belief systems, being practically beat about the head with it every day ?

And let's not even go there about the social pressure and influences, everything from job interviews, to that being one of the things that screwed up any chance at me and the ex adopting rather than trying to spawn our own - yes, that was one of the first things they asked, and when I refused to lie about it and claim to be "A Good Christian", so much for ANY help from MARE, yeah, really...

There's a certain disgusted bitterness and being kicked in the balls all day, every day, by a religion and then having to see the symbols of their fucking demongod stuck up everywhere as they feed his unquenchable desire for more hate and sorrow - but I better stop now before I really lose my cool.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Thursday, December 2, 2010 8:40 PM

THEHAPPYTRADER


Whoa, why don't ya tell us how you really feel? (I know, I did ask) Yeah, your post makes it quite obvious how these symbols can be found offensive. My brain' seems to be running kinda slow right now, I really shouldn't have been as surprised as I was.

I never have understood blue laws and who decided they were Christian or reasonable. Most of y'all already know I have faith in my religion but not in any governing bodies (and that includes bodies like the leadership of megachurches).

I'm certainly not calling any of you a liar, but I do find the 'abused by Christians' stories hard to believe. Certainly, it's possible some folks claiming to be Christians, or even practicing Christians (and I use practicing very loosely) could have done terrible things like that (decidedly UNchristian-like behavior). I have never seen anything that led me to believe that kind of thing happened often enough to brand the lot of us in that manner. I suppose it could be a regional thing, or it could be I've been spared those kinds of experiences.

I'm not too found of the

Quote:

symbols of their fucking demongod stuck up everywhere as they feed his unquenchable desire for more hate and sorrow


bit, but I'm assuming in the context that is meant to apply to corrupt bastards who have taken advantage of a popular religion for their own gain and the ignorant fucks they inspire. Still, you didn't tell me I was wrong or that my faith is merely a myth. That's the main point I was trying to make. Believe what you want, say what you want, but when you start telling others how they should think, it becomes a problem. That's why I have no problem with your comments but I do have a problem with that billboard. Not that one billboard in another state really matters to me. I'm just clarifying how I feel about it and how others might as well.

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Thursday, December 2, 2010 8:44 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by TheHappyTrader:
Magon, I don't entirely understand how you could find simple religious symbols offensive, but I'm not arrogant enough to assume that makes you wrong. I guessing you're offended at people who attempted to 'shove religion down your throat.' I'd remind you that the symbols belong to many people who aren't like that, but I'm pretty sure you already know that. Regardless, I think it's shiny that you can tolerate it. Tolerance is at the core of many religious beliefs, but unfortunately we don't see that so much in practice.

I find the sign offensive because it is not tolerant. It would be different if they put up some sign to the effect of "We don't need faith in a higher power to do great things" or something like that. While it advocates for something some people might take issue with, it does not assault a group of people's beliefs like the "You know it's a Myth right?" sign does.


I don't find symbols offensive. Read my post again.

I think if the Atheist billboard said something like: "Die fucking religious scum" I would find that to be not tolerant, but pointing out something is a myth, not so much. I mean, it's hardly likely to be a lightbulb moment for anyone.
"Gosh, you mean Santa isn't real" kind of thing.

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Thursday, December 2, 2010 8:58 PM

THEHAPPYTRADER


Quote:

Incidentally, atheists have to live their daily lives surrounded by symbols and statements of religious belief. i could be offended, if I so chose, by a crucufix symbol outside a church, because its a myth that has been shoved down our neck for generations.


This was what led me to believe you could be offended, not that you are and I was curious as to the how is all.

Far as the 'Myth' is concerned, your opinion is it is a myth. I believe it is real. Maybe not on that exact day, in that exact year, under those exact conditions (after all, these stories are how many years old and have been translated how many times?) but the important part, about God sending his son to earth to save us all from ourselves essentially, is very real to me. I don't expect you to think exactly how I do, but I would appreciate it if ya didn't compare it to Santa Claus or the tooth fairy.

I'm not forcing my beliefs on you or asking you to think as I do. I'm just saying it's one thing to believe something is a myth and another thing to tell someone else their beliefs are a myth. There's not much of a way to prove or disprove the Christian faith, which is kinda the point and why it requires faith.

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Friday, December 3, 2010 6:29 AM

FREMDFIRMA



Happy, thing is - I am both for religious and personal reasons hostile to the Christian belief to a degree bordering on pyschotic, so it's really, really hard for me to be reasonable about it.

That said, I do have many allies who consider themselves so, but the best I can do against my own prejudices is be aware of them, and while I know guilty-till-proven-otherwise isn't exactly the best of ways to start out dealings with someone, it's quite literally the best I can manage when my own belief encourages killing them the moment they self-identify as such.

As for abusive conduct, unfortunately, by virtue of the acceptance (or at least, lack of ANY real denouncement) of most folk who self-identify as "Christian" - those who are abusive in it's name are given tacit acceptance and approval by the rest, which winds up smearing them all with the same brush, you understand ?

And yes, it does happen, quite often, and what's worse is that very few mainstream media outlets are willing to call them on it and lose out to the massive subscriber base they comprise, especially when they will have to answer for it when the financial impact of such makes itself known, but here you go, just for example.

Custody ruling raises legal concerns
http://heraldbulletin.com/breakingnews/x1293919477/Custody-ruling-rais
es-legal-concerns


This is extremely, extremely common in custody and abuse hearings - and as I mentioned, also a big factor in any adoption attempt, especially since many of those are run by folk of a particular religion.

But most especially - the Hellcamps I have fought my entire life, ain't just private, or state supported ones, the very *worst*, most abusive, nightmarish, have always been religious-financed.
And just that much more to grind my nerves, the ones run by AOG, like Teen Challenge, are in part financed by MY TAX DOLLARS, going to abuse children in the name of religion, under that "Faith Based Initiative" bullshit.
http://teenchallengecult.blogspot.com/2008/05/daily-kos-dogemperor-tee
n-challenge.html


Think for a moment just how offensive that is to me.
And it's not the only example, just the worst - here's a tiny, itty bitty sample, of the rest.
http://www.nospank.net/floggers.htm

So for me, while I condemn the belief, individuals within it I try very hard to take as just that, individuals - but given just how often they prove out to be willing to accept any horror, abuse or evil in the name of their faith, unstintingly, unquestioningly... I do try to avoid anyone I know who is, you understand ?
If they prove out to be a humane and decent person, I accept them as such. but when one has a pre-existing bias and has stared down the barrel of horrors unimagineable in the name of that belief, acceptance of folk who express it don't come easy.

As far as the billboard, well, I feel the same way about the symbols that you do about the billboard - but freedom of expression is just that, and I am willing to begrudgingly tolerate such expression so long as my own is tolerated in return... it's when others have NO intention of offering the same courtesy that I become... well, really unpleasant, about it.

I actually threw a guy off the property a couple days ago, he pushed one of them leaflets at me and started prosthelysing, and when I give him a polite no-thank-you and told him that was inappropriate here, instead of taking the hint he became more insistent - at which point I "put on the scary" and MADE him leave, which thankfully didn't come to physically removing him, cause I find that distasteful.

In order to facilitate your understanding of my hostility; I will explain in simplest form.
I see the "Christian" deity as a monster, a sadistic thing that feeds on human misery and forments it by influencing those susceptible to it's manipulation, the weak, the gullible, the ambitious and authoritarian, and it tells them what they want to hear in ways that set them against each other and cause maximum carnage and misery so that it can feed, and feed - and it's been doing this for a couple thousand years, with the same diminishing returns of any junkie jonesing for a fix, and has a demonstrated and admitted intent to destroy us all by provoking us to wipe out our own biosphere in nuclear fire, whereupon it'll move on to prey on something/someone else - and the damn fools who bring all manner of misery onto this world with their eyes firmly on the next, trodding all beneath them uncaring, will find that those pearly gates open on a firey pit, and the howling laughter of the horror that they truly worship.

That's not exactly conducive to rational discussion or pleasant interaction with those people, you understand?
Especially when forgiveness isn't one of my own core tenets.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Friday, December 3, 2010 6:41 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


"I'm certainly not calling any of you a liar, but I do find the 'abused by Christians' stories hard to believe. Certainly, it's possible some folks claiming to be Christians, or even practicing Christians (and I use practicing very loosely) could have done terrible things like that (decidedly UNchristian-like behavior). I have never seen anything that led me to believe that kind of thing happened often enough to brand the lot of us in that manner. I suppose it could be a regional thing, or it could be I've been spared those kinds of experiences."

Hello,

It would be delightful to use the universal force-shield. "Well, anyone who would do that isn't really a Christian, so you haven't been abused by Christians." It's very tempting, and I certainly don't think of such people as Christians. But my opinion matters little. 'Christian' is a title people use to brand themselves. I am not gifted with governing-body status over others' use of the term.

I think it's important to accept that Christians do many horrible and hateful things. Even well-meaning Christians who think they are helping people.

The fact that this can be said of any and all groups does not make the statement immaterial, but rather more material. There's no reason to doubt the villainy of some Christians because there is no reason to doubt the villainy of human beings, the basic building part of any Christian group.

Moreover, I am a Christian and I consider certain common Christian beliefs to be dangerous. These beliefs are core to many Christian religions, and I wish we could do away with them. I abhor these beliefs not because they are intrinsically evil, but rather because they are so prone to misuse and abuse. Any tool may be used for ill, but some tools incorporate severe design flaws, and I see certain Christian beliefs the way I would see a firearm that jams every third round and blows up on every fourth. Not a tool, but rather a hazard.

To put it more succinctly, I give you this: Christians have killed, maimed, abused, berated, lied, stolen, and committed every other heinous act that it is within the capacity of mankind to imagine. They have done so privately, and they have done so with official permission and encouragement. They have done it in the past, they are doing it now, and they will do it in the future.

Every story of cruelty Frem has personally experienced is merely a pale shadow of the soul-crushing evil others have endured from Christians, and only a drop in the bucket compared to the sea of tears Christians will evoke before the end of time.

I say this not because I have great faith in Frem's honesty (though I do) but rather because to believe anything else would require that I butcher my capacity for reason.

I am a Christian, and I'm willing to lean on the tiller to steer us as far away from that inevitability as possible. I do this just like all humans of any ilk who would pretend to decency.

--Anthony



Assured by friends that the signal-to-noise ratio has improved on this forum, I have disabled web filtering.

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Friday, December 3, 2010 6:42 AM

CANTTAKESKY


Happy,

There are two messages on that board.

1. Celebrate Reason. Positive message, symbol of atheism.

2. You know it's a myth. Negative message. Nuff said.


When I tried to say if Global Warming were a religion, then I am agnostic (note: not even atheist), all sorts of grief came down on me for so casually dismissing the concerns of so many people without hearing them out. They were offended that I said what they believe could possibly not be true.

I agree with you that the negative message of "You know it's a myth" would offend anyone who truly believes in whatever IT is. Like I said, put up the same billboard about some other deeply held beliefs, and the protests will come out.

Democracy: You know it's a myth.

Voting: You know it's a myth.

Seatbelts: You know it's a myth.

Global Warming: You know it's a myth.

Vaccines: You know it's a myth.

Vitamins: You know it's a myth.

Homeopathy and herbs: You know it's a myth.

Terrorism: You know it's a myth.

WMDs in Iraq: You know it's a myth.

You get the idea.



--Can't Take (my gorram) Sky

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Friday, December 3, 2010 12:08 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Ah, you speak the truth. People are offended when others disagree with their beliefs. How many times have we seen it. Free speech, oh yeah, but if you say something I disagree with, I will call for you to be shut down and silenced. We see it on these boards all the time (and other internet discussion sites) - the rage and offense that ensues when someone disagrees.

Let's face it, all of us can get our gander up when someone says something we disagree with, but you either got to support the right of free expression or you don't.

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Friday, December 3, 2010 12:11 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Just getting back to this one.

To respond:
Quote:

There's a difference between "We need to Talk" - God, and "You know it's a Myth right?" One is advocating for something you may or may not believe in, the other is much more negative, mocking to a large number of people's beliefs and dismissively referring to it as a myth....I don't think atheist should be ashamed of their belief/non-belief or feel they should have to hide it, but I do think it's every bit as disrespectful for them to tell someone their beliefs are wrong as is it is for the evangelicals tell someone they are going to hell for thinking differently.
That says it for me, and why I find the billboard offensive....
Quote:

I find the sign offensive because it is not tolerant. It would be different if they put up some sign to the effect of "We don't need faith in a higher power to do great things" or something like that. While it advocates for something some people might take issue with, it does not assault a group of people's beliefs like the "You know it's a Myth right?" sign does.
I guess pretty much “Happy said it all for me”.

I don’t have a god, but it doesn’t bother me if others do, or don’t believe there’s ANYTHING “out there” (because I do have a belief there is, just not a “god”). It’s the “YOU KNOW it’s a myth” thing that bothers me. That is an opinion stated as fact, and I would find it offensive, for sure. It’s denying others the validity of their faith. I suffer quite enough of that to be able to empathize with how they’d feel.

The symbols don’t bother me, pretty much I ignore them. I’ll admit I do find the figurines of Christ on the cross rather irritating, or the proliferation of Mary figurines I see some places, but there’s a big difference between “irritating” and “offensive”, and I’m not offended by anyone’s faith. And this from someone who IS “actively hostile”, but to the church, not the faith. As Anthony said (with one revision):
Quote:

Any tool may be used for ill, but some tools incorporate severe design flaws, and I see [a lot of organized religion] the way I would see a firearm that jams every third round and blows up on every fourth. Not a tool, but rather a hazard.
I also agree with CTTS’ last post.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Friday, December 3, 2010 1:58 PM

THEHAPPYTRADER


Quote:

Happy, thing is - I am both for religious and personal reasons hostile to the Christian belief to a degree bordering on pyschotic, so it's really, really hard for me to be reasonable about it.


That's too bad, but I prefer your honesty to someone who will just lie nicely to me.

Quote:

It would be delightful to use the universal force-shield. "Well, anyone who would do that isn't really a Christian, so you haven't been abused by Christians." It's very tempting, and I certainly don't think of such people as Christians. But my opinion matters little. 'Christian' is a title people use to brand themselves. I am not gifted with governing-body status over others' use of the term.


That's a good point Anthony. While I do not consider these people to be exhibiting Christian like behavior and can make my case with biblical evidence, I am not the King of all Christians and do not where a shiny hat. Long as we can agree not all Christians are like that, I'm satisfied. I think that's reasonable enough. My opinion is that most Christians are decent well to do folks, but I don't judge them to be good just because they are Christian. As a matter of fact, if I know someone is Christian I tend to hold them to a higher standard, but I don't forget we all suffer from the human condition.

The way I see it, we have a responsibility to lead by example, and that does NOT mean aggressive uninvited and unwelcome proselytizing. It means being a good neighbor, helping your fellow man (and woman), helping those as need it and being willing to forgive. If folks want to here about your faith, that's shiny and you should share it, but you shouldn't attempt to force your beliefs on another. That, in a nutshell, is how I believe Christianity is supposed to work. But, I ain't in charge am I?

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Friday, December 3, 2010 4:55 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by TheHappyTrader:
The way I see it, we have a responsibility to lead by example, and that does NOT mean aggressive uninvited and unwelcome proselytizing. It means being a good neighbor, helping your fellow man (and woman), helping those as need it and being willing to forgive. If folks want to here about your faith, that's shiny and you should share it, but you shouldn't attempt to force your beliefs on another. That, in a nutshell, is how I believe Christianity is supposed to work. But, I ain't in charge am I?


Alas no - would that you were.

You just described the key difference between the ones I wanna stick a knife in, and the ones I make my allies - my own beliefs say much the same, except that one is supposed to actively *discourage* seekers "until they end thy patience" by repeatedly coming back, then instruct them if they demand so.

Best example around here is Anthony's politeness, cause it tends to inspire everyone else in the thread to be a little more polite, albiet for me that is a very relative thing.

-F

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Saturday, December 4, 2010 7:27 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Hey, Frem, that's cool. WE're not supposed to explain in any depth, either, unless "asked three times", to show that the questioner is really interested, not just passing curious. That's the way I like it. I wish all faiths did that.

And yes, what Happy said is precisely how I feel, and how I wish it were. A lot of people would get along a lot better. I'd LIKE to believe the vast majority of Christians are just good folk; maybe it's that the others are the ones who are most vocal about being Christian... ;o)


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Saturday, December 4, 2010 7:34 AM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by TheHappyTrader:
My opinion is that most Christians are decent well to do folks, but I don't judge them to be good just because they are Christian. As a matter of fact, if I know someone is Christian I tend to hold them to a higher standard, ...

My prejudice is actually against Christians. I expect less from Christians and hold them to a lower standard than other people.

Yes, sadly, I am bigoted in my own way--lots of deep-seated bitterness in my history with Christians.

--Can't Take (my gorram) Sky

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