I can't help wondering if someone got to them...[quote]The chiefs of the Army, Marine Corps and Air Force do not support a repeal of the military’s “don’..."/>

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

DADT...sigh...

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Monday, December 6, 2010 12:22
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Saturday, December 4, 2010 10:05 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I can't help wondering if someone got to them...
Quote:

The chiefs of the Army, Marine Corps and Air Force do not support a repeal of the military’s “don’t ask, don’t tell” law, telling lawmakers Friday that such a move could add unnecessary stress to the force.

“The potential for damage is there,” said Gen. James Amos, commandant of the Marine Corps. “A repeal would absolutely have an impact on combat units … so my concern goes back to their issues of cohesion and the burden on those units.”

The chiefs spoke during the second day of hearings before the Senate Armed Services Committee, one day after Defense Secretary Robert Gates urged the same lawmakers to act now on a repeal. On Tuesday the Pentagon released details of its review of the issue, recommending a slow but deliberate pace of training and policy changes to allow gay troops to serve openly.

But the Army and Marine Corps leaders in particular said they did not agree with the assessment that a dramatic policy change would have only limited impact on troops’ morale and mission effectiveness. Army Chief of Staff Gen. George Casey said a repeal would “add another level of stress to an already stretched force” and “be more difficult for the Army than the report suggests.”

All four service chiefs said they believe a repeal of the 17-year-old law will take place in coming years. But while Adm. Gary Roughead recommended Congress act on a repeal now and Air Force Gen. Norton Schwartz pushed for a repeal no sooner than 2012, both Casey and Amos said lawmakers should wait until the pressures of combat operations overseas are not weighing on troops’ minds.

A survey conducted as part of the repeal study showed that fewer than a third of troops believe repealing the law would hurt the mission focus or effectiveness.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2637291/posts

And so it goes on. How stupid...

The report showed as far as the servicement THEMSELVES are concerned:




Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off





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Saturday, December 4, 2010 11:34 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


The "potential" for damage is there in repealing it?

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/US/11/15/gay.service.members.photo.exhibit
/index.html



Just because something can't be explained doesn't mean it becomes yours.

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Saturday, December 4, 2010 12:08 PM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


"The chiefs of the Army, Marine Corps and Air Force do not support a repeal of the military’s “don’t ask, don’t tell” law, telling lawmakers Friday that such a move could add unnecessary stress to the force."

But not the Navy?

No... Really?

I guess its true.. "Its not gay if its under weigh.."



"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

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Saturday, December 4, 2010 1:09 PM

CANTTAKESKY


One day, people will look back on DADT and other inequalities like they do segregated bathrooms and hospitals.

One day. That day will come.

--Can't Take (my gorram) Sky

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Saturday, December 4, 2010 1:59 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


What's good enough for King Edward is good a for all fags...

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1I7DNUS_en&q=king+edward+red+ho
t+poker&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai
=





"You can't put a price on good pussy."
-Pam, Archer, The Rock

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Sunday, December 5, 2010 7:00 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I know, Rose, amazing isn't it? How stupid and narrow-minded old men can be.

Is there something else behind that mentality besides homophobia and the military's infamous unwillingness to change ANYTHING? It seems like there must be, but maybe those two things are just that huge.

It's not like the furor over letting African-Americans and Jews serve; they're already THERE, for heaven's sake, they've been there for decades (always?), it's just stupid, pure and simple. And you'd think anyone with half a brain would see that; "we've been here before, we'll always be forced to evolve, let's get it over with". But no, they fight tooth and nail.

I've heard it before, that when he asked "why?" the response was always 'Because it's serving the country. It's the most honorable thing that I can think of doing right now in my life.' How many people are willing to put their lives on the line to feel that way?

The thing that bothers me the MOST is that, if outted (and it HAS been a witch hunt: "Don't Ask Don't Tell" is a joke!), they lose their pension and everything else, despite having put their lives on the line, serving honorably, and many being DECORATED heroes. It just sickens me.

Hell, the whole thing sickens me. I know it will come, it's just too slow, too expensive, too wrong and taking too damned long!


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Sunday, December 5, 2010 7:15 AM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
It just sickens me.

It sickens me too.

--Can't Take (my gorram) Sky

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Sunday, December 5, 2010 8:19 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Love the emoticon. Stole it.

Ooops, I see it's one of those provided here. I don't usually pay attention to those emoticons; they're too bland for my taste. I got my own:



I kinda like that one, tho'; it's hurling ON someone, hee, hee, hee!


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Monday, December 6, 2010 8:43 AM

THEHAPPYTRADER


Of course I think people should be able to serve in the military, or anywhere else, without having to hide their sexual preference, religion, etc, etc...

But, just to play devil's advocate, I've heard arguments to the effect of them not wanting to share bathrooms and showers with homosexuals, mostly on account of the nakedness. 'Course, this argument usually made rather crudely with all manner of curses and the word 'faggot' but maybe those kind of feelings are what the military is concerned about? Not saying that makes it right, but would you be in favor of men and women sharing showers?

I've heard other arguments for this position but frankly, this is the only one I thought worth repeating.

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Monday, December 6, 2010 8:50 AM

PENGUIN








King of the Mythical Land that is Iowa

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Monday, December 6, 2010 9:14 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by TheHappyTrader:
But, just to play devil's advocate, I've heard arguments to the effect of them not wanting to share bathrooms and showers with homosexuals, mostly on account of the nakedness. 'Course, this argument usually made rather crudely with all manner of curses and the word 'faggot' but maybe those kind of feelings are what the military is concerned about? Not saying that makes it right, but would you be in favor of men and women sharing showers?


Why the hell not ?
I mean, this idiotic and asinine assumption that soldiers cannot control themselves and thus must be pre-emptively punished for it, or the "troublemakers" which would cause their lack of control should...

You know, I've seen THAT argument somewhere else before.
Should we make female soldiers wear burqas, then ?

Seriously, why the hell is nudity so appalling and offensive anyway, save that our whole damn society is seriously pyschologically fucked up ?

And if our soldiers really can't control themselves, why the hell do we trust them with a firearm then ?

Seriously, it makes no goddamn sense to me, and this is very likely in part cause I don't seem to suffer the same "issues" every bloody body else seems to have about such things...
Honestly, I barely comprehend the argument, and can hardly at all figure out WHY there's an argument at all!

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Monday, December 6, 2010 9:52 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


What nobody seems to have considered is that if DADT were eliminated, soldiers would discover, of the gays they had been serving alongside all this time (those who don't already know, anyway), that some had won commendations, the they fought well beside them, those they HAD showered with showed no more interest than any other fellow soldier, none of the gay soldiers they’d fought alongside had ever made advances to them, that gays had been in the service for decades commendably...hell, some even those who had saved THEIR lives at some point. Just think of the impact those soldiers would have on society when they rejoined it! What a boon!

The military doesn’t like to change: fact. There were problems with allowing Jews to serve openly (many already did, but kept their faith quiet, even to the point of changing their names).
Quote:

The early history of Jewish service was complicated by American assumptions that Jews were unwilling or unable to serve in the military. This perception was to last for centuries.
Quote:

General Ulysses Grant's Order #11, expelling Jews from the territory occupied by the Union armies under his command during the Civil War


Then there were African-Americans.
Quote:

At the time, the military — along with the overwhelming majority of the country — opposed integrating black servicemembers into the forces and preferred a 'separate but equal' approach that would have required the military to construct separate recreation spaces and facilities. The survey about Jews was no more promising, with 86% of the soldiers agreeing that "there is nothing good about Jews."
http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/tapped_archive?month=07&year=2010&b
ase_name=should_jews_be_allowed_to_serv
Directly from that survey:
Quote:

White enlisted men showed a strong prejudice toward sharing recreation, theater or post facilities with Negroes.
http://thinkprogress.org/2010/07/22/dadt-docs/ “Two out of three Southerners, one out of three Northerners objected to working with Negroes”. “An overwhelming majority of the men felt that Negro and white soldiers should be separated both during and after training”.

And the same battle over women serving. The “separate showers” thing was solved; it shouldn’t need to be solved with gays. The military doesn’t like to change, in my opinion more than society as a whole dislikes change. It HAS come, it SHOULD come, and our taxes are being wasted by ignorant people in the legislature and the military who are stuck in the Dark Ages.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Monday, December 6, 2010 10:30 AM

THEHAPPYTRADER


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Quote:

Originally posted by TheHappyTrader:
But, just to play devil's advocate, I've heard arguments to the effect of them not wanting to share bathrooms and showers with homosexuals, mostly on account of the nakedness. 'Course, this argument usually made rather crudely with all manner of curses and the word 'faggot' but maybe those kind of feelings are what the military is concerned about? Not saying that makes it right, but would you be in favor of men and women sharing showers?


Why the hell not ?
I mean, this idiotic and asinine assumption that soldiers cannot control themselves and thus must be pre-emptively punished for it, or the "troublemakers" which would cause their lack of control should...

You know, I've seen THAT argument somewhere else before.
Should we make female soldiers wear burqas, then ?

Seriously, why the hell is nudity so appalling and offensive anyway, save that our whole damn society is seriously pyschologically fucked up ?

And if our soldiers really can't control themselves, why the hell do we trust them with a firearm then ?

Seriously, it makes no goddamn sense to me, and this is very likely in part cause I don't seem to suffer the same "issues" every bloody body else seems to have about such things...
Honestly, I barely comprehend the argument, and can hardly at all figure out WHY there's an argument at all!

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.



You'll get no arguments from me, but not everyone sees things as you and I. I'm just saying, maybe they want a gradual transition on account of several enlisted who think and see things differently than we do. Maybe the military does hate change, maybe there's even a reason for that. I'm just speculating here. I'm not against homosexuals joining the military, but I'm not so quick to assume that issue is solely related to rampant ignorance, stubbornness or homophobia.


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Monday, December 6, 2010 11:14 AM

STORYMARK


Our Military can handle ANYTHING!

Except, apparently, the idea of knowing that someone they've already been serving with, who they may even owe their lives to, might be checking them out in the shower.

Our Military is the best in the world!

But they're, what, scared at the notion of doing that which every other armed service in the world handles just fine?

You'd think the rank-and-file would be in a hurry to overturn DADT - it makes 'em look like a bunch of sissies!

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Monday, December 6, 2010 11:17 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Good ones, Story. I agree. It's stupid...they've had years to "transition"--remember DADT was SUPPOSED to be the first step in doing so...and they've done nothing. They want to go on doing nothing; facts mean nothing.

And they appear to have enough politicians on their side (for a number of reasons) to help them do nothing.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Monday, December 6, 2010 12:22 PM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Why the hell not ?

Indeed. I'm straight, but do I want to have sex with every naked man I see?

Here it comes again....

--Can't Take (my gorram) Sky

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