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Wikileaks Revenue Squeezed - Paypal Caves

POSTED BY: ANTHONYT
UPDATED: Wednesday, December 8, 2010 17:38
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 842
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Tuesday, December 7, 2010 4:38 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/12/04/wikileaks.pay.pal/index.html?iref=obi
nsite


Hello,

I did not notice this until today. I had read about their website being forced to move, but this is the first I heard about Paypal denying them service.

I wonder what the next move will be.

--Anthony


Assured by friends that the signal-to-noise ratio has improved on this forum, I have disabled web filtering.

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Tuesday, December 7, 2010 4:43 PM

CANTTAKESKY


Amazon denied them hosting service. Paypal said they were engaged in illegal activity. The University of Melbourne closed their post office box. Their Swiss bank, SWISS--closed their account. (These are people who banked for Nazis!) The British judge denied him bail, and they still haven't presented a shred of evidence of his alleged crimes.



--Can't Take (my gorram) Sky

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Tuesday, December 7, 2010 4:51 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

The thing that occurs to me is... I'm fairly certain these people (Wikileaks) had a plan for all contingencies before they published article one.

I have a feeling that the unconventional nature of their organization will make all conventional tactics against them ineffective. Mere inconveniences. And these attempts will further expose the machinations of government.

--Anthony


Assured by friends that the signal-to-noise ratio has improved on this forum, I have disabled web filtering.

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Tuesday, December 7, 2010 5:26 PM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


Anthony and CTS - do you ever wondered how much Mr. Asange was making via PayPal for his leaks? Have either of you ever met a really good sales person? I mean a really, really good one?

I'm starting to have doubts about Mr. Asange - I'm just starting to think about this right now, honestly, in spite of my questioning of your approval of him (and I do approve of some gov secrets being exposed), but what were his real motives? My judgement may be clouded by knowing too many "netrapeneurs," people that will do anything to leverage the 'net to make money, but it's starting to feel like he might be a guy who will present one persona to make other things happen.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Tuesday, December 7, 2010 5:42 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

Well, let's say he's the devil. Let's say he wants to get rich. Let's say he raped women.

Let's even say Wikileaks is for-profit, unlike all the other media and press sites out there. (Tongue in cheek here.)

These revelations may certainly paint Mr. Asange in a negative light. However, none of these things impacts the Wikileaks debate.

--Anthony



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Tuesday, December 7, 2010 5:53 PM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by pizmobeach:
...but what were his real motives?

What are the real motives of a newspaper? Some do it for the ideology. Some do it for profit. Some do it for both.

It is good to know motives of authors, since motives color the accuracy and interpretation of the writing.

But he is not the author in this case. He is only the publisher. Publishers routine make a profit. I don't think it is wrong. They invest in the publication and take the risks. I don't begrudge them compensation. If Assange makes a generous living doing this, I don't have a problem with it.

What the ideological motives of this publisher? I can guess, but it doesn't matter to me. You read the evidence and interpret them with a grain of salt.

http://www.nonprofitquarterly.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=ar
ticle&id=7736:details-of-wikileaks-budget-to-be-revealed&catid=155:nonprofit-newswire&Itemid=986


Quote:

WikiLeaks reportedly raised $1 million over the past year. In the past the group has said that its operating costs are $200,000, but these may have increased to somewhere in the neighborhood of $600,000 if staff is being paid. WikiLeaks founder, Julian Assange, has said the group will be spending some money this year on the defense of PFC Bradley Manning who passed the recently released classified cables along to the group, as well as the dump that produced the Afghan War Diaries.


--Can't Take (my gorram) Sky

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Tuesday, December 7, 2010 6:46 PM

DREAMTROVE


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

The thing that occurs to me is... I'm fairly certain these people (Wikileaks) had a plan for all contingencies before they published article one.

I have a feeling that the unconventional nature of their organization will make all conventional tactics against them ineffective. Mere inconveniences. And these attempts will further expose the machinations of government.

--Anthony


Assured by friends that the signal-to-noise ratio has improved on this forum, I have disabled web filtering.




Anthony nails it again.

Of course this is their goal. They were always aiming for a free opensource system.



Pizmo,

For some reason, despite your normally astute analysis, you're missing this one by a mile.

1) Assange has a crew dependent upon him, and he is putting his life on the line for them. Their handling of the information is essential to the security and running of the site, and it's always on the financial edge. I think this call fails to understand the way the system works.

2) If you were at all even one foot in the information economy, you would realize how truly meaningless traditional currency is. The traffic alone dwarfs the power of money itself. Money is a simple abstract representation of power, but it is power within a confined system, nothing more. Only the simple minded would draft their plans completely confined within this system.

Has it ever occurred to you that while myself and others may be quixotic idealists, we have actually thought things through when we make our plans for radical change? I actually make a sub-poverty level income, and do so intentionally. I think this all the currency I need to achieve my ends.

I think that people like Soros have done little more with their genius then to completely entrench their own power as completely subordinate to those who issue the currencies in which they trade. This enables said issuers to completely control Soros and the Superfriends in precisely the manner that you and I might control pawns on a chessboard.


Here, Assange has started a revolution. If he did not intend to do that, than it is a heroism of accident, and any petty side gain as insignificant an event as swedish threesomes. Meaningful to the person maybe, but not to the world. But in demonstrating a successful model with a radical change of information flow, he has very much shown us who actually know what we're doing, or at least are trying to, a whole new world of the information age.

So, yes, maybe you're right, I highly doubt it, but you could be. It would make no difference. After all, Edison and Steinmetz were in it to make a buck, right? So, I guess nothing they did might have any impact on our currently posting these comments in a purely digital artificial world based on a remotely broadcast moving picture show called Firefly... now could it?


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Tuesday, December 7, 2010 6:58 PM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

The thing that occurs to me is... I'm fairly certain these people (Wikileaks) had a plan for all contingencies before they published article one.

I have a feeling that the unconventional nature of their organization will make all conventional tactics against them ineffective. Mere inconveniences. And these attempts will further expose the machinations of government.

--Anthony


Assured by friends that the signal-to-noise ratio has improved on this forum, I have disabled web filtering.




Anthony nails it again.

Of course this is their goal. They were always aiming for a free opensource system.



Pizmo,

For some reason, despite your normally astute analysis, you're missing this one by a mile.

1) Assange has a crew dependent upon him, and he is putting his life on the line for them. Their handling of the information is essential to the security and running of the site, and it's always on the financial edge. I think this call fails to understand the way the system works.

2) If you were at all even one foot in the information economy, you would realize how truly meaningless traditional currency is. The traffic alone dwarfs the power of money itself. Money is a simple abstract representation of power, but it is power within a confined system, nothing more. Only the simple minded would draft their plans completely confined within this system.

Has it ever occurred to you that while myself and others may be quixotic idealists, we have actually thought things through when we make our plans for radical change? I actually make a sub-poverty level income, and do so intentionally. I think this all the currency I need to achieve my ends.

I think that people like Soros have done little more with their genius then to completely entrench their own power as completely subordinate to those who issue the currencies in which they trade. This enables said issuers to completely control Soros and the Superfriends in precisely the manner that you and I might control pawns on a chessboard.


Here, Assange has started a revolution. If he did not intend to do that, than it is a heroism of accident, and any petty side gain as insignificant an event as swedish threesomes. Meaningful to the person maybe, but not to the world. But in demonstrating a successful model with a radical change of information flow, he has very much shown us who actually know what we're doing, or at least are trying to, a whole new world of the information age.

So, yes, maybe you're right, I highly doubt it, but you could be. It would make no difference. After all, Edison and Steinmetz were in it to make a buck, right? So, I guess nothing they did might have any impact on our currently posting these comments in a purely digital artificial world based on a remotely broadcast moving picture show called Firefly... now could it?




We'll talk later DT - just saw news about your sister. Sincerest Best for her.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Wednesday, December 8, 2010 2:36 AM

CANTTAKESKY


http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503543_162-20024811-503543.html?tag=conten
tMain;contentBody


Quote:

PayPal and MasterCard cut off financial support mechanisms. On Tuesday, Visa said it has suspended all payments to WikiLeaks pending an investigation of the organization's business. A Swiss bank, PostFinance, has frozen WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange's legal defense fund. U.S. government scientists have been blocked from accessing WikiLeaks' websites for fear the data will "contaminate" their computers.

The cyber-battle is not one-sided. WikiLeaks also has exploited the decentralized nature of the Internet to remain functional. Assange and his WikiLeaks cohorts also have an insurance policy. About 100,000 WikiLeaks supporters have been given an encrypted file of WikiLeaks data, some potentially damaging to the U.S., that would be unleashed in the event of aggression that compromises its operations. "If something happens to us, the key parts will be released automatically," Assange has said. Hundreds of "mirror sites," which copy the data of the WikiLeaks site, have also been set up.

In addition, an anonymous hacking group has started to attack organizations, including PayPal, who denied services to WikiLeaks, Computerworld reported.



--Can't Take (my gorram) Sky

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Wednesday, December 8, 2010 2:40 AM

CANTTAKESKY


Operation Payback:

First target: Paypal

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9200098/WikiLeaks_furor_spawns_
rival_DDoS_battles?taxonomyId=144


Quote:


A lengthy statement posted on the anonymous group's Web site listed several organizations that the group claimed had stifled WikiLeaks' effort to release the documents. "We will find and will attack those who stand against Wikileaks and we will support WikiLeaks in everything they need," the statement said.

Anonymous said it will offer WikiLeaks an additional site for mirroring the leaked documents. The group also claimed that it will create 'counter-propaganda' and organize DDoS attacks on "various targets related to censorship."

Anonymous' campaign over copyright enforcement issues, known as Operation:Payback, has resulted in DDoS attacks that have knocked out sites belonging to the Recording Industry Association of America, the Motion Picture Association of America and others.

In the statement announcing support for Assange, the organizers of Anonymous declared that "Operation:Payback has come out in support of WikiLeaks and has declared war on the entities involved in censoring [their] information."



They also got the Swiss Bank website and Mastercard

http://www.businessinsider.com/cyber-hackers-that-took-down-swiss-bank
-site-have-now-taken-down-mastercardcom-2010-12


--Can't Take (my gorram) Sky

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Wednesday, December 8, 2010 5:13 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

Well, let's say he's the devil. Let's say he wants to get rich. Let's say he raped women.

Let's even say Wikileaks is for-profit, unlike all the other media and press sites out there. (Tongue in cheek here.)

These revelations may certainly paint Mr. Asange in a negative light. However, none of these things impacts the Wikileaks debate.




I agree 90% - the information should be judged completely on it's own. I just don't trust anyone 100% who's risking so much.
I was mainly wondering if he was misrepresenting the data in any way, if he was packaging it so he could sell it. I don't know what his process has been in the past but has he always made statements that he is going to release data in the future - the Bank dump that's coming?


Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Wednesday, December 8, 2010 6:04 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Robin Hood's little band of cyber-terrorists have sealed their own fates today. In short time, one by one, they'll all be rounded up and dealt with.







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Wednesday, December 8, 2010 8:39 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

Has it ever occurred to you that while myself and others may be quixotic idealists, we have actually thought things through when we make our plans for radical change?
Uhhh, DT, aside from you, who has? I don't see it here, I see ranting and raving on both sides, but no PLANS to change anything. Am I missing something?

As to Wikileaks, they've long had contingency plans, knowing they'd be shut down here, they pop up there. The most recent efforts to shut them down have taken a different tack, and personally, I wonder how much influence was brought to bear to make those things come about.

My feelings about Wikileaks and Asange are mixed, and will continue to be. But from what I've heard/read, the "rape" thing originated with two women who wanted him to get tested for STDs because of a leaking condom. That's "rape"?!?! No, it's an excuse being utilized for other reasons, in my opinion.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Wednesday, December 8, 2010 8:43 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by pizmobeach:
I just don't trust anyone 100% who's risking so much.


That's actually a good policy - someone who puts it all the line, who has that large an axe to grind and is willing to take all manner of crazy risks to do it, isn't someone you SHOULD trust.
But they're definately worth listening to.

I know that's damn ironic coming from me, especially while helping CR grind the MI Foster Care system facefirst into the concrete...
http://www.detnews.com/article/20101208/METRO/12080372/1409/Monitor--S
tate-failing-in-fix-of-foster-care-system

But when someone who does play by much the same standards and rules flat tells you that they are people like them should not be trusted, there's a good reason - in order to go that far one has to embrace a certain fanaticism, a rabidity which can cloud their judgement even at the best of times, and Julian is certainly not any more immune to that than anyone else.

That said, he did plan this shit out in advance, and Operation Payback is just the beginning - depending on what happens now, it's going to be very interesting, because if the US tries to haul his ass off to Gitmo, if they'll really go that goddamn far...

You might, just MIGHT, get to see just how bloody far the other side is willing to take it.
To quote Jayne: "Well, that'll be an interesting day.."

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Wednesday, December 8, 2010 9:30 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

That said, he did plan this shit out in advance, and Operation Payback is just the beginning - depending on what happens now, it's going to be very interesting, because if the US tries to haul his ass off to Gitmo, if they'll really go that goddamn far...

You might, just MIGHT, get to see just how bloody far the other side is willing to take it.
To quote Jayne: "Well, that'll be an interesting day.."

-Frem



Looks like today is the day, or at least for a start:

Cyberattacks Are Retaliation for Pressure on WikiLeaks

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/09/world/09wiki.html?_r=1&hp

"LONDON — A small army of activist hackers orchestrated a broad campaign of cyberattacks on Wednesday in support of the beleaguered antisecrecy organization WikiLeaks, which has drawn governmental criticism from around the globe for its release of classified American documents and whose founder, Julian Assange, is being held in Britain on accusations of sex offenses.
Related
Targets included Mastercard.com, which stopped processing donations for WikiLeaks; Amazon.com, which revoked server space from the group; the online payment service PayPal, which cut off its commercial cooperation…
That activist, Gregg Housh, said in a telephone interview that 1,500 activists were on online forums and chatrooms including Anonops.net, mounting mass and repeated “denial of service” attacks on sites that have moved against Mr. Assange and WikiLeaks in recent days."

This is like some kind of James Bond villain stuff.

ETA: I first saw your reference to Operation PayBack Frem and thought you were referring to the latest dump and not today's attacks - I didn't realize it had been posted yet - details, aye wot?

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Wednesday, December 8, 2010 3:00 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

Interesting to learn that Mastercard and VISA are now dictating what you can buy.

I'm sure the cyberhackers will be tracked down and charged with crimes eventually. The hackers' impact was rather inconsequential. Almost more of a political protest than any real sabotage.

I find VISA and Mastercard's activities much more troubling. As far as I know, there has been no legal injunction against Wikileaks, no Terrorist funding clauses have been activated, nothing. If I want to use my card to donate to them, I ought to be able to. That these companies could just arbitrarily decide to stop servicing their customers is unfortunate.

I'm sure some small print in the credit card agreement gives them this power. And honestly, there's zero long-term impact. People are not going to stop using credit cards in protest over this.

--Anthony



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Wednesday, December 8, 2010 5:38 PM

DREAMTROVE


I withdrew my money from target sites. I don't imagine that hackers would delete records, but very likely that corporations would use the opportunity of an attack to freeze accounts.

This is an old trick from my days as a financial analyst for AG Edwards. We called it skimming the float. The float is the balance of money going through the system. If you have people depositing money for transactions, passing through your system is float. You can collect interest off of this turning over cash, if you can freeze money before it enters a transaction or dispersal for a short period, you can make extra cash. Hence paypal et al might claim an attack or use one to freeze accounts for a few days or eels, even months, while collecting interest on that money. Ive noticed online sites including pay pal, eBay and amazon, doing this before.

Just so people know that this happens, it's not a conspiracy theory, I did this for ten years as a job, I can assure you its SOP. If you have money that you miht need for christmas and don't want frozen, now might be a good time to withdraw it.

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