REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Hacking For Dummies

POSTED BY: ANTHONYT
UPDATED: Thursday, December 9, 2010 10:35
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VIEWED: 697
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Thursday, December 9, 2010 5:47 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/12/09/world.wikileaks/index.html?
hpt=T2


Hello,

It appears that the hackers involved with recent attacks on Visa, Mastercard, etc. have now published a Do-It-Yourself hacking tool.

This is the first time I've ever seen hackers open their ranks up to the uninitiated. I wonder what the ramifications of this will be. I also wonder how the government will track and punish those who use this tool.

I have never seen anything like this before.

--Anthony


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Thursday, December 9, 2010 6:24 AM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
This is the first time I've ever seen hackers open their ranks up to the uninitiated.

It sounds to me like war. They are recruiting new foot soldiers.

Can't Take (my gorram) Sky
------
Everything I say is just my opinion, not fact.

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Thursday, December 9, 2010 6:31 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

CNN might agree. There is a headline now, "Is Wikileaks engaged in Cyber-War?"

I think this premise is misleading. If thousands of sympathetic individuals rise up in conflict, is it Wikileaks' war? Are THEY engaging in it?

To my knowledge, Wikileaks' activities are still limited to publishing leaked data. I think calling this Wikileaks' war is somewhat misleading.

--Anthony

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Thursday, December 9, 2010 6:57 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


This story does seem to keep twisting and turning doesn't it?

About Visa, etc - do you think their decision to distance themselves (cutoff) from WLs was arrived at internally , or were they pushed? I can't help but think all of these companies' prime directive is to not get involved in politics and of course: profit, profit, profit. And yet these actions don't seem to follow either of those.

The hackers - sorry to see they felt this was the way to go. The trouble is they are backing the gov into a corner where if they don't try and prosecute WLs now (for what I have no idea) then they will look like the blackmail hacktic worked.

Oh, and speaking of Ernst Blofeld...

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/12/08/wikileaks.poison.pill/index.html

Assange's 'poison pill' file impossible to stop, expert says

(CNN) -- The Poison Pill. The Doomsday Files. Or simply, The Insurance.
Whatever you call the file Julian Assange has threatened to release if he's imprisoned or dies or WikiLeaks is destroyed, it's impossible to stop.
"It's all tech talk to say, 'I have in my hand a button and if I press it or I order my friends to press it, it will go off,'" said Hemu Nigam, who has worked in computer security for more than two decades, in the government and private sector.
"Julian is saying, 'I've calibrated this so that no matter how many ways you try, you're never going to be able to deactivate it,'" Nigam said. "He's sending a call to action to hackers to try it. To the government, he's also saying, 'Try me.'"

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Thursday, December 9, 2010 7:57 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/web/12/09/wikileaks.facebook.twitter/inde
x.html?hpt=T2


Hello,

If reports in this article are accurate, and the hackers are posting credit card account numbers, then the hacking can no longer be considered mere political activism or protest. It is wantonly criminal.

The targetting of politicians who oppose Wikileaks is also troubling, as it could be considered to constitute an attack on free speech and expression. (The very thing they claim to be protecting.)

This may be one way in which this IS a war. It is becoming less and less 'clean' as time goes by.

--Anthony


Assured by friends that the signal-to-noise ratio has improved on this forum, I have disabled web filtering.

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Thursday, December 9, 2010 8:09 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/web/12/09/wikileaks.facebook.twitter/inde
x.html?hpt=T2


Hello,

If reports in this article are accurate, and the hackers are posting credit card account numbers, then the hacking can no longer be considered mere political activism or protest. It is wantonly criminal.

The targetting of politicians who oppose Wikileaks is also troubling, as it could be considered to constitute an attack on free speech and expression. (The very thing they claim to be protecting.)

This may be one way in which this IS a war. It is becoming less and less 'clean' as time goes by.

--Anthony


Assured by friends that the signal-to-noise ratio has improved on this forum, I have disabled web filtering.



That thing I said the other day about 1 hacker stealing thousands of credit card numbers and you asked me what I meant by that... let's forget I said that, 'k?

It does seem to be spiraling a bit - there is such a (justified?) divide between The Peeps and The Gov, like we've all been spoiling for a fight and this was the spark.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Thursday, December 9, 2010 8:13 AM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
This may be one way in which this IS a war. It is becoming less and less 'clean' as time goes by.

That is why I hate wars. Even if you feel sympathetic to one side to begin with, after a while, you can hardly see a difference between the two.

Can't Take (my gorram) Sky
------
Everything I say is just my opinion, not fact.

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Thursday, December 9, 2010 8:38 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


"That thing I said the other day about 1 hacker stealing thousands of credit card numbers and you asked me what I meant by that... let's forget I said that, 'k?"

Hello,

I remember. However, the fact is that hackers have always done such things and I have always considered such acts criminal.

The action of these hackers is immaterial to the *separate* argument of Wikileaks' validity as a press service publishing leaked information.

There are two different things happening here.

1) Wikileaks is fighting for its rights as a press service.

2) People who are NOT Wikileaks are fighting for their right to access Wikileaks' information unhindered.

The people in the second group are not necessarily making their case in a righteous or legal fashion. But this 'army' is not controlled by Wikileaks or anyone in particular. They are only marginally organized. It is a popular uprising, and if it continues it may be as sinister as any peasant revolt.

--Anthony

Assured by friends that the signal-to-noise ratio has improved on this forum, I have disabled web filtering.

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Thursday, December 9, 2010 8:57 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
"That thing I said the other day about 1 hacker stealing thousands of credit card numbers and you asked me what I meant by that... let's forget I said that, 'k?"

Hello,

I remember. However, the fact is that hackers have always done such things and I have always considered such acts criminal.

The action of these hackers is immaterial to the *separate* argument of Wikileaks' validity as a press service publishing leaked information.

There are two different things happening here.

1) Wikileaks is fighting for its rights as a press service.

2) People who are NOT Wikileaks are fighting for their right to access Wikileaks' information unhindered.

The people in the second group are not necessarily making their case in a righteous or legal fashion. But this 'army' is not controlled by Wikileaks or anyone in particular. They are only marginally organized. It is a popular uprising, and if it continues it may be as sinister as any peasant revolt.




I agree - I characterized both actions as hacking of secured secrets, whether they are Gov Diplomatic documents or someone's secure set of digits - it's a hack to me except one is closer to home, my shit.

I think that's trivial to your other concerns though:

"There are two different things happening here.

1) Wikileaks is fighting for its rights as a press service."

>> calling them a "press service" seems like spin to me, but see below **.

2) People who are NOT Wikileaks are fighting for their right to access Wikileaks' information unhindered.

>> I don't know who they are, most likely they are not on the WLs payroll, so agreed. Seems they are fighting for something they feel is broader than access to WLs though. I would guess showing their power is another motivation, digging big bad gov is another.

**I think the place we should start the discussion is here:
Do you think our gov should have any secrets?

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Thursday, December 9, 2010 9:08 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

"calling them a "press service" seems like spin to me, but see below"

Briefly I'll interject - In Lovell v. City of Griffin, 303 U.S. 444 (1938), Chief Justice Hughes defined the press as, "every sort of publication which affords a vehicle of information and opinion."

So, yes, Wikileaks is a press, and press means more than we may normally imagine. Most people associate the press as being a special organization with special passes issued to them, entitling them to publish news. This is not the case, and was never the intention of the Constitution.

"Do you think our gov should have any secrets?"

Yes, though that's rather broad. It would be bad business to publish battle plans before a battle, for instance.

Now I will offer a question.

Do you think our government has done a good job of keeping the right things secret about their activities?

--Anthony

Assured by friends that the signal-to-noise ratio has improved on this forum, I have disabled web filtering.

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Thursday, December 9, 2010 9:13 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:


The people in the second group are not necessarily making their case in a righteous or legal fashion. But this 'army' is not controlled by Wikileaks or anyone in particular. They are only marginally organized. It is a popular uprising, and if it continues it may be as sinister as any peasant revolt.

--Anthony




Which is why I was asking the other day, if you saw the peasants sharpening the blades on the guillotines, would you stop and ask them why, or would you beef up your security? If you KNEW what was coming - or at least had a pretty good idea - would you try to head it off peacefully, or would you resort to brutality?

Must fly now. Very busy. Busy, busy. Many blades to sharpen! ;)



This Space For Rent!

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Thursday, December 9, 2010 9:23 AM

KANEMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

CNN might agree. There is a headline now, "Is Wikileaks engaged in Cyber-War?"

I think this premise is misleading. If thousands of sympathetic individuals rise up in conflict, is it Wikileaks' war? Are THEY engaging in it?

To my knowledge, Wikileaks' activities are still limited to publishing leaked data. I think calling this Wikileaks' war is somewhat misleading.

--Anthony

Assured by friends that the signal-to-noise ratio has improved on this forum, I have disabled web filtering.




Gay-Boy, I agree with you on this. However(you spic cunt) millions have risen in the tea party movement and you let the liberals put it on Palin's lap......explain that to me. I'm just a dumb black chick from tanzania.....Well, it COULD be true...

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Thursday, December 9, 2010 9:30 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

"calling them a "press service" seems like spin to me, but see below"

Briefly I'll interject - In Lovell v. City of Griffin, 303 U.S. 444 (1938), Chief Justice Hughes defined the press as, "every sort of publication which affords a vehicle of information and opinion."

So, yes, Wikileaks is a press, and press means more than we may normally imagine. Most people associate the press as being a special organization with special passes issued to them, entitling them to publish news. This is not the case, and was never the intention of the Constitution.



Speaking of broad, yikes! That's every written word then, and this seems rather unlegal: "every sort of publication." I'm thinking there's greater detail on that. And does it matter if he's called "press?" You make a point of it so I'm guessing it must give WLs some protection.

Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
"Do you think our gov should have any secrets?"

Yes, though that's rather broad. It would be bad business to publish battle plans before a battle, for instance.

Now I will offer a question.

Do you think our government has done a good job of keeping the right things secret about their activities?




How would one know if one doesn't know them all? Do we pick and choose which ones we should know? And who decides that, another government agency?

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Thursday, December 9, 2010 9:35 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Originally posted by kaneman:
Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

CNN might agree. There is a headline now, "Is Wikileaks engaged in Cyber-War?"

I think this premise is misleading. If thousands of sympathetic individuals rise up in conflict, is it Wikileaks' war? Are THEY engaging in it?

To my knowledge, Wikileaks' activities are still limited to publishing leaked data. I think calling this Wikileaks' war is somewhat misleading.

--Anthony

Assured by friends that the signal-to-noise ratio has improved on this forum, I have disabled web filtering.




Gay-Boy, I agree with you on this. However(you spic cunt) millions have risen in the tea party movement and you let the liberals put it on Palin's lap......explain that to me. I'm just a dumb black chick from tanzania.....Well, it COULD be true...





Hello,

I will sometimes find myself imagining the 'inner' image of a person. If I could paint a picture of them, what would it look like?

It is dismaying to find that the image sometimes resembles a rotting, puss-filled cancerous tumor.

Today, the boundaries between who I am and who I strive to be are thin. I apologize in advance.

--Anthony

Assured by friends that the signal-to-noise ratio has improved on this forum, I have disabled web filtering.

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Thursday, December 9, 2010 9:45 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


"How would one know if one doesn't know them all? Do we pick and choose which ones we should know? And who decides that, another government agency?"

Hello,

There's the rub. People are generally content to allow government to have its secrets until, by accident, something turns out to be inappropriate. Something dismaying is revealed despite the government's best efforts to conceal it. Usually, initial disclosures are due to incompetance, not active journalism or investigative penetrations. And then it comes out... An unnecessary lie. A purposeful deception to secure or maintain power. A twisting of reality to continue a policy that might otherwise be unpopular.

Once that trust is shattered sufficiently, then it is very easy to come to the opinion that you can't trust government to tell you what you really need to know. I believe we are arriving at this place. Some of us got here sooner than others.

Once you reach that place where the government can't be trusted to manage its secrets, then there is only one kind of secret they can keep. And that is: the secrets they can keep despite everyone's best efforts to learn them.

Confidence in the government is so eroded that full disclosure is the only way many people can feel satisfied that they have any idea as to what's going on. This is a dangerous place to be, but it is the government themselves that engineered this state of being. At the bottom of these leaks are governments that have lost the confidence of their people.

--Anthony

Assured by friends that the signal-to-noise ratio has improved on this forum, I have disabled web filtering.

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Thursday, December 9, 2010 10:35 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
The people in the second group are not necessarily making their case in a righteous or legal fashion. But this 'army' is not controlled by Wikileaks or anyone in particular. They are only marginally organized. It is a popular uprising, and if it continues it may be as sinister as any peasant revolt.




Get yo Pitchforks, torchesss heah!

You haven't seen the worst of it, not yet you haven't....

-F

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